Iron Fist Receives Poor Reviews

[Darth Knox]

With two stellar seasons of Daredevil and one season each of Jessica Jones and Luke Cage, Marvel's Netflix-verse has been crushing it. With Iron Fist due out this week to complete The Defenders line-up, reports are coming out that the show is the first bomb from Marvel.

Those fine people are Screen Junkies News discuss the show with a journalist from The Hollywood Reporter.

*WARNING*
If you are really excited about the show, DO NOT watch this video as it will crush all your expectations.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTmUmyMIU14" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTmUmyMIU14</a>

[Darth Tepes]

Eh, I'll just wait and Judge it for myself.  I really am tired of the whole race issue though (seriously almost turned the video off when she said "mansplaining" and "White Splaining"). 

[LivingBrain]

Important Note: this post is not directed at anyone in particular. It's just some observations I've had as I've trekked through the vast expanses of the interwebs and feel are important to bring up.

And now begins the oh so exciting string of internet discussion wherein insecure fanboys shed tears when a new adaptation of a comic book property they're pretending to love gets poor reviews from the big meanie critics.

With feelings of inadequacy fully triggered, the fanboy resorts to the excuse that, because they've seen Iron Fist show up in that one cartoon they watched when they were young, their taste is "more refined" than the big meanie critics.

Wait, stop the presses! We have a PLOT TWIST!

GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY VOL. 2 IS STANDING AT 96% ON RT! FANBOY IS PLEASED BECAUSE THE BIG MEANIE CRITICS ARE VALIDATING THEM! FANBOY CAN HAVE SUPER HAPPY FUN TIME NOW!

However, flash forward a month and WONDER WOMAN is being panned, so fanboy reverts to his old ways, and the cycle starts again.

[Kham-Ryn Kurios]

From reading most of the reviews released last week, it would seem as though the reviewers had already made up their mind about the show before they had seen it. Including everyone in the video above.

I mean, from the sound of it they should be hiring these creative powerhouses to write these movies and shows. Mansplaining? Whitewashing? I mean, they're so hip, and witty, right?


This takes the cake as my favorite comment on the video:  See this is what happens when Barry goes back in to save his mother.  

[Jev Moldara]

I take a lot of reviews with a grain of salt the size of Mt. Everest as a matter of course because most critics are there specifically to find the flaws in a film.

Now, when reviews start using SJW buzzwords like "mansplaining," "whitesplaining," and "whitewashing," any potential credibility they have goes clean out the window because they are already biased against it before even going in.

[LivingBrain]

I take a lot of reviews with a grain of salt the size of Mt. Everest as a matter of course because most critics are there specifically to find the flaws in a film.

Now, when reviews start using SJW buzzwords like "mansplaining," "whitesplaining," and "whitewashing," any potential credibility they have goes clean out the window because they are already biased against it before even going in.

When a property has shades of old orientalism I think it's fair to ask for an update. Whether this show actually did that or not few can say because many haven't seen it, but the marketing beforehand and Finn Jones' habit of sticking his foot in his mouth during interviews don't give much good faith.

[Kham-Ryn Kurios]

When a property has  I think it's fair to ask for an update.

To what end though? I assume by "shades of old orientalism" the update you're referring to is in regard to him being a white person gaining the power of kung fu, and how mystical and mysterious "The Orient" was in the 1970's at the time of his creation; what with the massive resurgence of Hong Kong Kung Fu cinema in happening in the same decade.

How everyone is reacting to this unreleased show is exactly how Danny Rand as a character is treated throughout his fictional history: Shunned for being white by asian culture, and accused of appropriating asian culture by everyone else.

His race seems to be the one thing that the proverbial "Internet" just can't get past. That one aspect overshadows all others in the discussion.

[LivingBrain]

To what end though? I assume by "shades of old orientalism" the update you're referring to is in regard to him being a white person gaining the power of kung fu, and how mystical and mysterious "The Orient" was in the 1970's at the time of his creation; what with the massive resurgence of Hong Kong Kung Fu cinema in happening in the same decade.

How everyone is reacting to this unreleased show is exactly how Danny Rand as a character is treated throughout his fictional history: Shunned for being white by asian culture, and accused of appropriating asian culture by everyone else.

His race seems to be the one thing that the proverbial "Internet" just can't get past. That one aspect overshadows all others in the discussion.

The proverbial "Internet" is just bad at discussing in general. Let's prove them wrong right now!

With Danny Rand specifically, I think it comes down to how he's contextualized in the story. I think the fears that come with him are related to "White savior" stereotypes, where the white guy comes into another culture and ends up being better at it than all of them.

In the case of martial arts is this the worst thing in the world? No. Martial arts is a skill; it can be learned. When it becomes concerning is when it comes at the cost of Asian characters, who seem to be underrepresented in the story.

However, there also comes an issue with Asian characters where they can be stereotyped into martial artists, which isn't good either. Does this mean they can't practice martial arts? No, not at all. We just can't have the "fu Manchu" or "dragon lady" types, where they're main purpose is to help out the white character and nothing beyond that.

If this sounds like a headache that's because it is, and that's due to a very unfortunate history with colonialism and poor representation in stories. What all these pitfalls I've mentioned have in common is a dehumanizing effect, where Asian characters either aren't important enough to be shown, or when they are they're stereotypical. The way around it isn't to ignore the issue (like DOCTOR STRANGE, unfortunately did; while they sidestepped it they still missed a chance to comment on stereotypes), but to put effort into having a diverse cat of very human, three-dimensional Asian characters. We don't necessarily have to race swap Danny himself (he was written as white and it is possible to have him stay that way and not be offensive), we just have to be very mindful of who we're showing and how they're being portrayed.

It doesn't stop with this show either. Other shows need to make an effort to diversify as well. The reason it stings with kung fu style shows is that there's more precedent to include Asian characters, and when they don't it's double disappointing.

Those are my thoughts on the matter. I empathize with people who want to see themselves represented onscreen because, when I was young, I was always disappointed that characters that looked similar to me ended up being villains more often than heroes. I like to support efforts to diversify because I have a small idea of how it feels to see yourself portrayed poorly on screen.

[Kham-Ryn Kurios]

The proverbial "Internet" is just bad at discussing in general. Let's prove them wrong right now!

With Danny Rand specifically, I think it comes down to how he's contextualized in the story. I think the fears that come with him are related to "White savior" stereotypes, where the white guy comes into another culture and ends up being better at it than all of them.

In the case of martial arts is this the worst thing in the world? No. Martial arts is a skill; it can be learned. When it becomes concerning is when it comes at the cost of Asian characters, who seem to be underrepresented in the story.

However, there also comes an issue with Asian characters where they can be stereotyped into martial artists, which isn't good either. Does this mean they can't practice martial arts? No, not at all. We just can't have the "fu Manchu" or "dragon lady" types, where they're main purpose is to help out the white character and nothing beyond that.

If this sounds like a headache that's because it is, and that's due to a very unfortunate history with colonialism and poor representation in stories. What all these pitfalls I've mentioned have in common is a dehumanizing effect, where Asian characters either aren't important enough to be shown, or when they are they're stereotypical. The way around it isn't to ignore the issue (like DOCTOR STRANGE, unfortunately did; while they sidestepped it they still missed a chance to comment on stereotypes), but to put effort into having a diverse cat of very human, three-dimensional Asian characters. We don't necessarily have to race swap Danny himself (he was written as white and it is possible to have him stay that way and not be offensive), we just have to be very mindful of who we're showing and how they're being portrayed.

It doesn't stop with this show either. Other shows need to make an effort to diversify as well. The reason it stings with kung fu style shows is that there's more precedent to include Asian characters, and when they don't it's double disappointing.

Those are my thoughts on the matter. I empathize with people who want to see themselves represented onscreen because, when I was young, I was always disappointed that characters that looked similar to me ended up being villains more often than heroes. I like to support efforts to diversify because I have a small idea of how it feels to see yourself portrayed poorly on screen.

Very well spoken. +1

You answered my question perfectly. 

[LivingBrain]

Very well spoken. +1

You answered my question perfectly.  

Point back atcha for getting the discussion going. Conversation is always a two person effort.

Looks like we put the rest of the internet to shame as well.

[ThreadJack]

I RARELY actually listen to reviews on things I already know I want to see. I prefer to judge for myself.

[Jev Moldara]

Okay, I'm three episodes in, and there is absolutely no feel of "white savior"-ism in this. The way Danny is portrayed is very much like how many people who study martial arts act. They are just regular people who happen to know martial arts. Granted, there's a bit of Buddhist tendencies in him, but it's not over the top or insulting in any way.

Honestly, based on what I've seen so far, the people making these complaints están hablando fuera de sus culos.

[Darth Tepes]

Okay, I'm three episodes in, and there is absolutely no feel of "white savior"-ism in this. The way Danny is portrayed is very much like how many people who study martial arts act. They are just regular people who happen to know martial arts. Granted, there's a bit of Buddhist tendencies in him, but it's not over the top or insulting in any way.

Honestly, based on what I've seen so far, the people making these complaints están hablando fuera de sus culos.

This happens much now. Looking for problems where there are none.

[Darth Knox]

When I got towards the end of ep 2 I posted this elsewhere on the forum:

"Almost at the end of episode 2 of Iron Fist and what I can say is this....remember in Batman Begins when Bruce Wayne comes back to Gotham after his 7 year absence? Alfred comes and picks him up, he has a shower, shave and grabs a new suit, and then takes a trip to Wayne Enterprises where everyone instantly recognises him. Imagine, instead of that, he disappeared at 10 years old and no-one recognises him as an adult. He has no living family and no kindly old butler. Because he was a kid (and rich) he has no fingerprints or DNA on file. How would he prove he is who he says he is? (especially showing up without shoes and looking homeless).

I am finding this take on the character (so far) very interesting. Yes, there hasn't been any great fight scenes yet, but it is definitely more of a character study. And using that initial premise as a foundation for the character, I am (for the moment) enjoying the show. Let's see if that lasts."

Later on i wrote this:

"Iron Fist is not perfect. It's not as gritty as Daredevil or Jessica Jones. Nor does it have the coolness or social commentary/relevance of Luke Cage. But it does have it's place in the Marvel Netflix-verse and is doing a decent job of pulling together the plot threads from the other three shows as we edge closer to The Defenders."

Am just about to start ep. 8 as I went to sleep early last night (at 3am).