TPLA's 'Myths, Lies, and Video Games': Ep. 2: Reverse Grip

[scifidude79]

Actually, we keep addressing  this issue because the same arguments keep coming up. Like the ones you bring up. We actually do address all of those things (limited use, characters switching as soon as they do one strike etc.) and no one seems to acknowledge that. In fact my entire point here was that you have an opponent in real life and if you are holding your saber reverse grip, you are at a huge disadvantage for all the reason in the video. You wont get just one slash and they are done. You need to parry and move after the blow and you can't do that well with reverse grip.

We await your video demonstrating its proper use in free play with lightsabers.

You're absolutely right.  In fact, I'd like to apologize for my first post in this thread.  I don't know what I was thinking.  You guys at TPLA are awesome, and I've learned a lot in your videos over the past year.  You do a terrific job of explaining things and I really put my foot in it with my earlier remark.  You didn't deserve that at all.  So, please accept my humble apology.

[Master Nero Attoru]

You're absolutely right.  In fact, I'd like to apologize for my first post in this thread.  I don't know what I was thinking.  You guys at TPLA are awesome, and I've learned a lot in your videos over the past year.  You do a terrific job of explaining things and I really put my foot in it with my earlier remark.  You didn't deserve that at all.  So, please accept my humble apology.

Don't worry about it, we welcome any questioning you can possibly come up with.  In your case, it's done respectfully and out of an honest desire to understand... which is great!  We'll debate and discuss all day long, so long as we can all be mature about it.  This topic is just especially absurd to us because we continue to get arguments coming in with no basis in fact lol

Actually, you posting that iaijutsu video was probably the first time I've seen anyone use legitimate martial arts in their argument.  Major points to you!  Usually, the response is involves the words "Ahsoka" or "Starkiller", or involves "deflecting blaster bolts."  Unfortunately, we don't have Ahsoka or Starkiller to discuss martial arts with, and we can't replicate blaster bolt reflection

[Master Medwyn]

Another issue we may have to think about when it comes to lightsaber swordsmanship is the fiction of the lightsaber blade which cuts through everything but... and the Force all these toons use in the movies/video games.
Just the use of the Force alone can justify reverse grip on a level we forceless earthlings can only explain by sweat and tear not to mention the advantage of a blade which can penetrate literally everything I accidentally touch with it.
One great advantage of practicing any kind of lightsaber art and combat techniques (and that's where TPLA is like an oracle) is that the practicioner gets some real contact information through physics and that can really put everything in a different perspective to see if a technique is effective, viable or not.
The best way to clear out a doubt is to try. And then it'll be easier to see why reverse grip is a difficult (to say the least) use of the saber to be really effective but can be spectacular in a choreography or in case your midichlorian counts allow

[obliviondoll]

The issue is, you have actively studied styles, consistently, that DO NOT USE a reverse grip, and have NOT actively studied styles which incorporate it or explain its value.

Like I already said.

You do address some of the times where a reverse grip may be used - but in each case, you downplay its value. The only exception is when mentioning shorter weapons, where you dismiss it because it's not applicable to a lightsaber (in spite of shorter bladed sabers actually being a thing). You frequently dismiss it as an inferior option which should only ever be used as a last resort. While there are very few such situations, there ARE times where the advantages of a reverse grip are going to come into play against a standard grip. In a typical saber sparring match, forcing such a situation is going to be near-impossible, because of the nature of how people typically stage such encounters. A similar pattern is reflected in most modern (and many not-so-modern) sword arts, because the situations in which those advantages become apparent are highly unlikely to come to pass while a person is carrying a sword in the modern world. They were relatively rare even when a sword was considered normal for most people to have on hand.

Starkiller's use of the reverse grip is said to be linked to the Shien saber form, which is meant to be an "aggressive defense" style with an advantage for deflecting blaster bolts. Using nerf guns to stand in for blasters, I've actually found a reverse grip surprisingly effective for deflecting projectiles, though certain adjusted stances with a standard grip work equally well. The "fictional character" statement does hold true as a counter-argument for most of his uses, however. Ahsoka's use of the style is similarly focused on "rule of cool" over practical examples of such a stance.

Most (but not all) my personal use of the reverse grip is for sword (and lightsaber) dancing, not sparring or combat. I have used it many times in sparring, however, both poorly and to good effect. I've been taught both how and WHEN to use it - with the latter being the most important part. There's only been one moment where that knowledge has come into play in a real "fight" - which was literally just me stopping a single attack then getting out of the situation. It wasn't a protracted encounter, and I had multiple incentives NOT to respond aggressively, so it would look to be as much a "last resort" moment as an example of why the grip is useful.

With all this said, however, I'm still never going to advocate the use of reverse grip as a PRIMARY fighting style - but there is absolutely a valid cause to defend proper situational use. The overemphasis on the negatives in this and other videos only reinforces the attitudes of people obsessed with the fictional applications of the technique. Teaching them what the style CAN do (preferably by learning it for yourself) would actually help to paint a better picture of WHY it can't do what many of them want.

[scifidude79]

Don't worry about it, we welcome any questioning you can possibly come up with.  In your case, it's done respectfully and out of an honest desire to understand... which is great!  We'll debate and discuss all day long, so long as we can all be mature about it.  This topic is just especially absurd to us because we continue to get arguments coming in with no basis in fact lol

Actually, you posting that iaijutsu video was probably the first time I've seen anyone use legitimate martial arts in their argument.  Major points to you!  Usually, the response is involves the words "Ahsoka" or "Starkiller", or involves "deflecting blaster bolts."  Unfortunately, we don't have Ahsoka or Starkiller to discuss martial arts with, and we can't replicate blaster bolt reflection

Yeah, I have a desire to learn, but the combat side of things is still a mystery to me.  I have limited resources and an erratic work schedule, so I tend to focus more on building sabers and the performance side of sabering, spinning and I was also working on the TPLA Shii Cho dulon last year.  (I need to get back to that)  So, anything that requires an opponent to full understand how it works (or doesn't) requires that I ask questions, because I don't cross blades with other people.

[Master Nero Attoru]

The issue is, you have actively studied styles, consistently, that DO NOT USE a reverse grip, and have NOT actively studied styles which incorporate it or explain its value.

Which styles do you have in mind?  As I said, it has some applications in specific cases throughout swordsmanship (drawing the sword in iaijutsu, and also some dagger usage in European martial arts), but I don't know offhand of any "style" that we don't have represented in TPLA.

Starkiller's use of the reverse grip is said to be linked to the Shien saber form, which is meant to be an "aggressive defense" style with an advantage for deflecting blaster bolts. Using nerf guns to stand in for blasters, I've actually found a reverse grip surprisingly effective for deflecting projectiles, though certain adjusted stances with a standard grip work equally well. The "fictional character" statement does hold true as a counter-argument for most of his uses, however. Ahsoka's use of the style is similarly focused on "rule of cool" over practical examples of such a stance.

I really do wish we had (in real life) a more representative way to replicate blaster bolt deflection, since that's such a big part of the lightsaber's usage in the actual Star Wars universe (since the Jedi primarily encounter blasters and not lightsabers, at least post-Ruusan).

Most (but not all) my personal use of the reverse grip is for sword (and lightsaber) dancing, not sparring or combat. I have used it many times in sparring, however, both poorly and to good effect. I've been taught both how and WHEN to use it - with the latter being the most important part. There's only been one moment where that knowledge has come into play in a real "fight" - which was literally just me stopping a single attack then getting out of the situation. It wasn't a protracted encounter, and I had multiple incentives NOT to respond aggressively, so it would look to be as much a "last resort" moment as an example of why the grip is useful.

It's definitely all about context, and ours is specifically combat, hence the focus on that arena.  I don't see any issue with the unorthodox being utilized (effectively) in dancing or choreography.  On the contrary, it can be a great visual in many cases!  We're simply talking about probabilities and percentages of use when it comes to combat scenarios.  In that context, we're not saying that it would be used 0% of the time, but nevertheless it would be a very small percentage.

Yeah, I have a desire to learn, but the combat side of things is still a mystery to me.  I have limited resources and an erratic work schedule, so I tend to focus more on building sabers and the performance side of sabering, spinning and I was also working on the TPLA Shii Cho dulon last year.  (I need to get back to that)  So, anything that requires an opponent to full understand how it works (or doesn't) requires that I ask questions, because I don't cross blades with other people.

Completely understandable.  If you get time to work more on the Shii-Cho, feel free to join our forum!  TPLALXforum.boards.net is the address, just join our Initiates group and you'll be able to easily submit your progress and earn Achievements.  People tend to learn quite a bit about combat by just training in the system, even if they don't have a partner per se.

[scifidude79]

Starkiller's use of the reverse grip is said to be linked to the Shien saber form, which is meant to be an "aggressive defense" style with an advantage for deflecting blaster bolts. Using nerf guns to stand in for blasters, I've actually found a reverse grip surprisingly effective for deflecting projectiles, though certain adjusted stances with a standard grip work equally well. The "fictional character" statement does hold true as a counter-argument for most of his uses, however. Ahsoka's use of the style is similarly focused on "rule of cool" over practical examples of such a stance.

I'd like to see a video of that.  I'm assuming you mean a single Nerf gun in a fixed position carefully aimed and timed, in which case you're essentially playing baseball.  Still sounds cool, though.  In actual combat, you're going to be dealing with multiple adversaries shooting at you in erratic patterns from different locations and trying to kill you.  It's slightly different.

Truth be told, while there are actual forms that are more defensive and are considered to be more effective against blaster bolts, a Jedi or Sith doesn't actually use that as much as they do the Force to block blaster bolts.  They allow the Force to guide their actions, so that the blade intercepts the shot, this is impossible to do in a real world situation without the use of such special powers.  That is shown very clearly in the original movie, where Luke is able to use only the Force and a lightsaber that he's had in his possession for a matter of hours and has had no practical training with to deflect blaster bolts.  (Obi-Wan probably at least trained him in the basic Shii Cho stances)  So, their stance and how they hold their weapon are secondary.  As Master Nero Attoru said, blasters and the Force don't actually exist, so that kind of training on a practical level is impossible.

[Darth Nonymous]

The issue is, you have actively studied styles, consistently, that DO NOT USE a reverse grip, and have NOT actively studied styles which incorporate it or explain its value.

I actually train reverse grip in 3 styles of swordsmanship from China. In each case the inclusion of the techniques were for only two purposes: 1. To practice switching your saber back to standard. and 2. To get increased leverage against a longer weapon.  While it is true you can stab people from behind with it, that again requires switching back and forth. The other strategy involves two hand and often a blade that you can touch.

You do address some of the times where a reverse grip may be used - but in each case, you downplay its value. The only exception is when mentioning shorter weapons, where you dismiss it because it's not applicable to a lightsaber (in spite of shorter bladed sabers actually being a thing).

It isn't applicable to lightsaber because you get no advantage with a shorter weapon (blade) held like that. Also, in the context that most people are going to be using these things (single combat) it is the opposite thing you want to be doing.  You also cannot touch the blade so much of the strength of the position is lost. It is a poor parrying position because of it's limited mobility. It is a poor attacking position because of it's lack of reach. These are just facts. Can some poeple use tools that are poor for the task? Sure. But why would you?

You frequently dismiss it as an inferior option which should only ever be used as a last resort. While there are very few such situations, there ARE times where the advantages of a reverse grip are going to come into play against a standard grip.

We always say it has it's uses: (check at 41 seconds)
https://youtu.be/0th9sdWMwPc?t=41s
But please tell me about the places where it has the advantage over standard grip. Then we can discuss that.

In a typical saber sparring match, forcing such a situation is going to be near-impossible, because of the nature of how people typically stage such encounters. A similar pattern is reflected in most modern (and many not-so-modern) sword arts, because the situations in which those advantages become apparent are highly unlikely to come to pass while a person is carrying a sword in the modern world. They were relatively rare even when a sword was considered normal for most people to have on hand.

IT is at this piint that I wonder why you are so hot and bothered by this. We seem to agree and you essentially said exactly what the point of the video was.

Starkiller's use of the reverse grip is said to be linked to the Shien saber form, which is meant to be an "aggressive defense" style with an advantage for deflecting blaster bolts. Using nerf guns to stand in for blasters, I've actually found a reverse grip surprisingly effective for deflecting projectiles, though certain adjusted stances with a standard grip work equally well. The "fictional character" statement does hold true as a counter-argument for most of his uses, however. Ahsoka's use of the style is similarly focused on "rule of cool" over practical examples of such a stance.

My experience with several students of all level trying it the and reached the opposite conclusion. You will have to show me video to speak to that. All the limitation biomechanically do not seem to warrent that conclusion.

Most (but not all) my personal use of the reverse grip is for sword (and lightsaber) dancing, not sparring or combat. I have used it many times in sparring, however, both poorly and to good effect. I've been taught both how and WHEN to use it - with the latter being the most important part. There's only been one moment where that knowledge has come into play in a real "fight" - which was literally just me stopping a single attack then getting out of the situation. It wasn't a protracted encounter, and I had multiple incentives NOT to respond aggressively, so it would look to be as much a "last resort" moment as an example of why the grip is useful.


With all this said, however, I'm still never going to advocate the use of reverse grip as a PRIMARY fighting style - but there is absolutely a valid cause to defend proper situational use. The overemphasis on the negatives in this and other videos only reinforces the attitudes of people obsessed with the fictional applications of the technique. Teaching them what the style CAN do (preferably by learning it for yourself) would actually help to paint a better picture of WHY it can't do what many of them want.

Again, I am confused on why, or how, you disagree with our conclusions.
And why you keep insisting that we don't know how to use it. We did a whole show on the ways that is could be applicable to most people. We show some things in the other video as well. It is still isn't.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyZ2aR5_rYY

[obliviondoll]

The key thing that's been missed here is that the biggest advantage of a standard grip is reach. It isn't the only advantage, and others are mentioned in your videos, but it's the biggest one, and the rare situations where reach is negated are times where a reverse grip doesn't fall as far behind the regular grip. When there's an environmental factor ENFORCING close quarters, that can become a situation where the reverse grip has an advantage. This means, of course, the specific environment of an enclosed space.

This is a scenario in which armed combat is generally not going to be a thing in the modern world. Most people simply won't get into fights in these situations where it can be avoided, or will be unarmed if and when they do. The probability of having a sword and an opponent in a tight space is exceptionally slim. It's not a common situation to be covered in weapon training, and it's rare to be demonstrated in performance or sparring as a result.

When you are in such an environment, the extra reach of a normal grip actually works against you, because the tight space limits your freedom of movement. With fictional lightsabers, this restriction would apply differently from how it does in the real world. Maybe just in the speed of attacks that cut through walls, or it could only be a problem if you're concerned about damaging circuitry or people behind the walls, or it may be subject to the walls being shielded or made from lightsaber-resistant materials. In weaker structures, or in areas which are important for the integrity of a structure, the wrong cut could bring things down around you as well.

The lack of extension of the blade when swinging with a reverse grip allows for a much easier time getting around the obstacles presented by such an environment. This effectively inverts one of the limitations normally applicable to reverse grip fighting, where standard grip would have more varied angles of attack. In narrow corridors and stairwells and other enclosed spaces where you're forced into close quarters, the reverse grip loses less potential angles of attack, while a normal grip is limited by what would normally be an advantage in reach. It is possible to work around the limitations this environment puts on a normal grip, but a reverse grip - IF the user is comfortable doing so - is much easier to adapt to the environment.

Your demonstrations of how to use it look clumsy to the point of "infomercial fail" levels of incompetence. You seem to be playing up the weaknesses of the grip, and present your information, demonstrations and conclusions in such a way that suggests a lack of knowledge of how to apply the grip in actual combat. I've seen 2 videos covering the topic, and in both cases, it looks like people who don't understand the reverse grip trying to dismiss it, rather than like experts talking about their area of expertise.

As I said in my earlier posts, I don't actually disagree with your conclusion - only with how you reached it. You're presenting an obviously-biased picture. Even people who don't actually understand the viability of the reverse grip are seeing your videos and recognising that something is missing. People who know what you're missing are apparently not too common, so you haven't had clarification about how to resolve the resultant breakdown in communication. I'm sorry for not clarifying previously, but I had honestly believed this information would be easier to come by for people who have contacts in as varied a collection of martial arts communities as you seem to. Apparently, proper discussion of the subject isn't as widely-available as I expected.

[Master Nero Attoru]

The key thing that's been missed here is that the biggest advantage of a standard grip is reach. It isn't the only advantage, and others are mentioned in your videos, but it's the biggest one, and the rare situations where reach is negated are times where a reverse grip doesn't fall as far behind the regular grip. When there's an environmental factor ENFORCING close quarters, that can become a situation where the reverse grip has an advantage. This means, of course, the specific environment of an enclosed space.

This is a scenario in which armed combat is generally not going to be a thing in the modern world. Most people simply won't get into fights in these situations where it can be avoided, or will be unarmed if and when they do. The probability of having a sword and an opponent in a tight space is exceptionally slim. It's not a common situation to be covered in weapon training, and it's rare to be demonstrated in performance or sparring as a result.

When you are in such an environment, the extra reach of a normal grip actually works against you, because the tight space limits your freedom of movement. With fictional lightsabers, this restriction would apply differently from how it does in the real world. Maybe just in the speed of attacks that cut through walls, or it could only be a problem if you're concerned about damaging circuitry or people behind the walls, or it may be subject to the walls being shielded or made from lightsaber-resistant materials. In weaker structures, or in areas which are important for the integrity of a structure, the wrong cut could bring things down around you as well.

The lack of extension of the blade when swinging with a reverse grip allows for a much easier time getting around the obstacles presented by such an environment. This effectively inverts one of the limitations normally applicable to reverse grip fighting, where standard grip would have more varied angles of attack. In narrow corridors and stairwells and other enclosed spaces where you're forced into close quarters, the reverse grip loses less potential angles of attack, while a normal grip is limited by what would normally be an advantage in reach. It is possible to work around the limitations this environment puts on a normal grip, but a reverse grip - IF the user is comfortable doing so - is much easier to adapt to the environment.

Your demonstrations of how to use it look clumsy to the point of "infomercial fail" levels of incompetence. You seem to be playing up the weaknesses of the grip, and present your information, demonstrations and conclusions in such a way that suggests a lack of knowledge of how to apply the grip in actual combat. I've seen 2 videos covering the topic, and in both cases, it looks like people who don't understand the reverse grip trying to dismiss it, rather than like experts talking about their area of expertise.

As I said in my earlier posts, I don't actually disagree with your conclusion - only with how you reached it. You're presenting an obviously-biased picture. Even people who don't actually understand the viability of the reverse grip are seeing your videos and recognising that something is missing. People who know what you're missing are apparently not too common, so you haven't had clarification about how to resolve the resultant breakdown in communication. I'm sorry for not clarifying previously, but I had honestly believed this information would be easier to come by for people who have contacts in as varied a collection of martial arts communities as you seem to. Apparently, proper discussion of the subject isn't as widely-available as I expected.

Perhaps our videos don't adequately illustrate this, but our main point is that the reverse grip is unrealistic and ineffective as a primary method of lightsaber usage.  This doesn't mean there are not specific applications of its usage that may be both interesting and efficient... but again, these are specific cases.  The one you mentioned, close quarters, I'm not convinced about.  Whichever the direction of the blade, close quarters combat can be awkward and difficult, and reach no longer comes into play.  At this point, the fight will come down to careful use of footwork and leverage.  Here is a situation where, once again, the reverse grip is hit with a major drawback - proximity to the arm.  With force being applied to your weapon, having it inches from your forearm (of your weapon arm, no less) is hardly ideal.  Once you enter that range, you need full freedom of movement, and the ability to bind effectively.  Even if using the second hand on the hilt, your applied force will not be as great as a standard two handed grip, biomechanically.

We would be happy to make another video, if it would help address your points.  I just feel that this is such a niche concept in martial arts that we've more or less beaten it to death.

[Master Uilos]

The key thing that's been missed here is that the biggest advantage of a standard grip is reach. It isn't the only advantage, and others are mentioned in your videos, but it's the biggest one, and the rare situations where reach is negated are times where a reverse grip doesn't fall as far behind the regular grip. When there's an environmental factor ENFORCING close quarters, that can become a situation where the reverse grip has an advantage. This means, of course, the specific environment of an enclosed space.

This is a scenario in which armed combat is generally not going to be a thing in the modern world. Most people simply won't get into fights in these situations where it can be avoided, or will be unarmed if and when they do. The probability of having a sword and an opponent in a tight space is exceptionally slim. It's not a common situation to be covered in weapon training, and it's rare to be demonstrated in performance or sparring as a result.

When you are in such an environment, the extra reach of a normal grip actually works against you, because the tight space limits your freedom of movement. With fictional lightsabers, this restriction would apply differently from how it does in the real world. Maybe just in the speed of attacks that cut through walls, or it could only be a problem if you're concerned about damaging circuitry or people behind the walls, or it may be subject to the walls being shielded or made from lightsaber-resistant materials. In weaker structures, or in areas which are important for the integrity of a structure, the wrong cut could bring things down around you as well.

The lack of extension of the blade when swinging with a reverse grip allows for a much easier time getting around the obstacles presented by such an environment. This effectively inverts one of the limitations normally applicable to reverse grip fighting, where standard grip would have more varied angles of attack. In narrow corridors and stairwells and other enclosed spaces where you're forced into close quarters, the reverse grip loses less potential angles of attack, while a normal grip is limited by what would normally be an advantage in reach. It is possible to work around the limitations this environment puts on a normal grip, but a reverse grip - IF the user is comfortable doing so - is much easier to adapt to the environment.

Your demonstrations of how to use it look clumsy to the point of "infomercial fail" levels of incompetence. You seem to be playing up the weaknesses of the grip, and present your information, demonstrations and conclusions in such a way that suggests a lack of knowledge of how to apply the grip in actual combat. I've seen 2 videos covering the topic, and in both cases, it looks like people who don't understand the reverse grip trying to dismiss it, rather than like experts talking about their area of expertise.

As I said in my earlier posts, I don't actually disagree with your conclusion - only with how you reached it. You're presenting an obviously-biased picture. Even people who don't actually understand the viability of the reverse grip are seeing your videos and recognising that something is missing. People who know what you're missing are apparently not too common, so you haven't had clarification about how to resolve the resultant breakdown in communication. I'm sorry for not clarifying previously, but I had honestly believed this information would be easier to come by for people who have contacts in as varied a collection of martial arts communities as you seem to. Apparently, proper discussion of the subject isn't as widely-available as I expected.

as someone who has seen underhand used primarily in theatrical productions, I would love to see a demo of it being used or discussed properly. As a proponent, would you have any links I can see?

[Darzik]

Talk talk talk is usually all you  get with this sort of thing. So for those who say they study an art that uses reverse grip I say to them "Show me sparring footage  of you successfully using reverse grip." And not against a rookie either.  That is how it is settled. Great claims require great evidence. So please.... post your videos. Thanks. 

As I said before... I await your videos with great antici.........................................................................pation

[Darzik]

Every single time someone argues that reverse grip works for short or long sword dueling they typically fall into the same two fallacies. #1 They say Ahsoka and Starkiller used it. Those are fictional characters. The argument is null. #2 They claim we don't have the proper experience therefore are not qualified to actually say that reverse grip doesn't work in short and long sword dueling. They are incorrect. Our experiences are vast,  we're certified weapon  instructors and we prove it by offering in person meetups.

Last point: When these people are asked to post their videos of reverse grip actually working against another skilled swordsman either suddenly get quite or make excuse... So far VERY few have accepted the challenge. The ONE guy that posted a video.... failed miserably AND against a novice.

I say again.... we await your video with great antici................pation.

I asked for video on June 14th. No takers so far.

[Master Nero Attoru]

I'll be seeing Master Vidnyl this weekend, we will certainly try to record some video of us experimenting with reverse grip.  Should be enlightening!

Anyone else who has a strong opinion on this topic, please feel free to submit as well.

[obliviondoll]

Perhaps our videos don't adequately illustrate this, but our main point is that the reverse grip is unrealistic and ineffective as a primary method of lightsaber usage.  This doesn't mean there are not specific applications of its usage that may be both interesting and efficient... but again, these are specific cases.  The one you mentioned, close quarters, I'm not convinced about.  Whichever the direction of the blade, close quarters combat can be awkward and difficult, and reach no longer comes into play.  At this point, the fight will come down to careful use of footwork and leverage.  Here is a situation where, once again, the reverse grip is hit with a major drawback - proximity to the arm.  With force being applied to your weapon, having it inches from your forearm (of your weapon arm, no less) is hardly ideal.  Once you enter that range, you need full freedom of movement, and the ability to bind effectively.  Even if using the second hand on the hilt, your applied force will not be as great as a standard two handed grip, biomechanically.

We would be happy to make another video, if it would help address your points.  I just feel that this is such a niche concept in martial arts that we've more or less beaten it to death.

You may INTEND to acknowledge that there are specific applications where it's actually useful, but the way your videos have been presented fail to do that. At best, you acknowledge there are situations where it's simply more efficient to pick the weapon up or draw it with such a grip, and that it can occasionally be NECESSARY to use the grip - just for the minimum amount of time - before switching. You definitely don't address any specific instances where the grip is useful for anything more than that, and frequently imply that no such situation could possibly exist.

As for my example, while OPEN close quarters (as in there's room to move but you are close) still favours a standard grip slightly, I'm talking about ENCLOSED spaces, which is even less of a situation most people would choose to fight. It's an environment where picking fights is unlikely, it's a rare environment to be in anyway, AND it's not a space which lends itself to interesting performance combat. There's very little call for such encounters to be demonstrated because the fights aren't exciting to watch, and are tough to be a part of, so people tend to avoid them. In the event it DOES happen, the proximity to the arm, while something of a risk, is less problematic than not having any angle of attack. You acknowledge that you need freedom of movement - and with a reverse grip, that's exactly the advantage you get. Binding is a weakness of the grip, but you're wrong about a second hand not being a valid solution. You're also wrong in assuming a bind will happen, because a standard grip aiming for a bind is actually an ideal opening for someone with a reverse grip to take advantage of.

You say you've beaten it to death. You said that before making the current video too, and people keep feeling - even those who don't know why - like you're missing something. The reason for this is because you ARE. I keep saying that your conclusion is still correct. You are simply not covering the right points to show it. You're approaching the situation from a perspective of "this isn't viable, lets demonstrate the situations where it fails and why". This ends with your videos literally looking like infomercials showing off the reverse grip as "look at him struggle to keep his blade straight" and "there must be a better way! NOW THERE IS!" with the normal grip being some kind of magical saviour that solves all these problems. I know that isn't what you WANT the videos to look like, but unfortunately, that's what happens.

In a similar way, dismissing fiction purely on the basis that it IS fiction doesn't do the argument justice. You have easy access to multiple scenes where famous reverse grip users are shown to switch from the reverse grip as they engage an enemy. You have examples where the fighters are shown in binds with a reverse grip that doesn't actually make sense to use that way. Show those clips WHILE explaining why they're switching to a normal grip, or while explaining why that reverse bind doesn't work. It's absolutely right that "it doesn't have to be realistic" because it's fictional. It can also be true that "this character is so strong/skilled/full of space magic they can get away with it", but showing the evidence to support the dismissal rather than just SAYING "oh well it's fiction it doesn't count" and casting it aside is missing an opportunity to properly reinforce the point.

If I ever end up with all the necessary pieces coming together, I might end up making a video to demonstrate the techniques I've learned. I would have done so if an opportunity presented itself anytime since the first video I saw on the topic. Unfortunately, my current situation and environment doesn't provide a good chance of such a situation happening anytime soon, if at all.