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Author Topic: TPLA's 'Myths, Lies, and Video Games': Ep. 2: Reverse Grip  (Read 9917 times)
Darzik
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« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2017, 11:56:32 PM »

fiction is.... well... fiction. It has ZERO place in a discussion about reality. Again I say... post your supporting videos Wink

This topic is beat to death. NO ONE in this thread has accepted the challenge of producing credible videos of actual live action sparring using the grip successfully. ONLY ONE accepted in another forum and that person failed miserable..... against a novice  Grin . They are all talk talk talk. Not going to waste time on the topic any longer unless someone produces actual evidence.

Happy Sabering Smiley
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The Gathering of Sabers
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Darzik
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« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2017, 12:01:42 AM »

Here's my review of the ONLY GUY to accept my video request challenge. He posted a video of about 5 minutes of sparring. This is the ONLY exchange in which he used reverse grip. After failing... he switched back to orthodox grip. When I asked for more footage he suddenly got quiet. Again... great claims require great evidence. The burden of proof falls upon the one making the claim. If you claim it works then you MUST pony up solid evidence. So far no one has. Here's evidence NOT supporting this guys claim that reverse grip works in a duel.

Video #1
https://youtu.be/iCJYu513PuQ

Video #2
https://youtu.be/r3m4l9r6rNs

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The Gathering of Sabers
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« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2017, 03:20:40 AM »

If I ever end up with all the necessary pieces coming together, I might end up making a video to demonstrate the techniques I've learned. I would have done so if an opportunity presented itself anytime since the first video I saw on the topic. Unfortunately, my current situation and environment doesn't provide a good chance of such a situation happening anytime soon, if at all.

Again, I'd love to see videos where it works. And I have to agree that fictional takes do not count because the whole point of a fight is to sell efficacy. It would make zatoichi look bad if the hundreds of nameless yakuza he just cut through didn't die by his skill.

Please. Videos. Practical ones.
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obliviondoll
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« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2017, 11:15:15 AM »

For now, I only have one thing to add - and that is my respect for the well-reasoned nature of this discussion. I've been re-reading and I'm looking like the most aggressive person in the discussion. I'm trying not to be, but it's a topic where I have a tendency to be quite direct, and it can come across that way.
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« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2017, 01:22:58 PM »

For now, I only have one thing to add - and that is my respect for the well-reasoned nature of this discussion. I've been re-reading and I'm looking like the most aggressive person in the discussion. I'm trying not to be, but it's a topic where I have a tendency to be quite direct, and it can come across that way.

Not a problem, one of our common interests at TPLA seems to be "debating with people about swordsmanship", so it works.  I might have missed it, but do you have a background in a sword art that uses reverse grip?  I'm just trying to get more context about your point of view, so I can see where you're coming from.
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obliviondoll
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« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2017, 10:51:03 PM »

Not a problem, one of our common interests at TPLA seems to be "debating with people about swordsmanship", so it works.  I might have missed it, but do you have a background in a sword art that uses reverse grip?  I'm just trying to get more context about your point of view, so I can see where you're coming from.

My formal training which has involved reverse grip has been a short, sharp "don't do it" from a HEMA instructor (not directed at me, he was telling off someone trying to show off), a slightly more comprehensive explanation of why it isn't much use in most situations from a Tai Chi instructor who specialised in sword work, and 3 different schools of kendo/kenjutsu (each of which had different opinions about the validity of those 2 terms) which I studied for a few years. The Tai Chi  instructor and the several masters I trained under in the kenjutsu school which put heavy emphasis on "kendo" being the modern sport-ified version of "kenjutsu" both taught me multiple techniques which involve keeping the sword in a reverse grip, and focused on explaining WHY those techniques are extremely circumstance-driven, but very effective in their place. It was, in both cases, HEAVILY reinforced that you should ONLY use reverse grip in very limited situations. One situation was the one you cover - the scenario where your sword starts from a bad place, and you can only get it into your hand and into the fight by grabbing it reversed. The other is the one I provided, and the techniques were very similar in both styles. The other 2 kendo schools addressed that there are uses for reverse grip, but that they're limited enough to negate the practicality of teaching the techniques to less experienced students (which at the time, I was).
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asrah
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« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2017, 06:16:24 AM »

Actually, we keep addressing  this issue because the same arguments keep coming up. Like the ones you bring up. We actually do address all of those things (limited use, characters switching as soon as they do one strike etc.) and no one seems to acknowledge that. In fact my entire point here was that you have an opponent in real life and if you are holding your saber reverse grip, you are at a huge disadvantage for all the reason in the video. You wont get just one slash and they are done. You need to parry and move after the blow and you can't do that well with reverse grip.

We await your video demonstrating its proper use in free play with lightsabers.

Its not exactly a sword technique in the first place, methinks. Take a thin handled knife, say 3-5 inches per blade, in each hand. Do punching motions. Blade becomes a potential augmentation of your normal strikes. Use it to cut someones arms if they block incorrectly. Gives you a few inches extra reach on the outer edge of the hands.

As for doing full on points sparring with a reverse grip. Maybe with dual wielding? One fore grip, one reverse grip. If you block with the foregrip saber, and twist your body and strike with the reverse grip saber? Not something ive ever tried, so i dont know.

To the people who mentioned something like leverage, or DN's supposed inexperience with trying to make it work. Leverage itself doesnt score points. You can have all the leverage advantage using your opponents own blade or posture or both, and still score nothing. One major thing that comes to mind, is if youre dual wielding reverse grip, and you successfully defend against a strike, whats your other saber going to do? If youre single wielding, how would you reliably recover your stance? If their strike has more force than your wrists can hold fast against? If the blade is pushed into your arm, i would think thatd be your opponents point. Not to mention, the reverse grip doesnt seem to be nearly as capable of rotating the saber around its balance point to block a quick strike to another part of the body after the first one is blocked. Theres an obvious disadvantage to flexibility and bodily coverage. I wouldnt suggest it in sport, i would thoroughly advise AGAINST it in a real fight.

If you want to kinda Jar Kai a normal length saber in foregrip, and a light dagger in reverse grip, and strike past their guard with the dagger? I guess try it, see how it works. US has 6-8 inch blades for the Flamberge guard, i dont know if they are as wide as the normal blade socket. Could take an initiate hilt, put one of those in, see how it goes? I imagine what DN is saying comes from experience. I doubt hes just pulling things out of his rear.

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