Do you know these moves?

[Cang Snow]

Hey everybody! We're starting a new series on the Lightspeed Saber League channel: New Move Mondays, where every Monday we'll share a short video on beginner to advanced movements to improve your lightsaber-fencing. I'll share each episode in this thread.

This week the move is called the Ringsweep or Sweep-escape, depending whom you ask.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXDjmFaQS2o" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXDjmFaQS2o</a>

It is one of our expressions of Ataru, or Way of the Hawk-bat. So it's fitting that we begin this series with it, since our insignia is the Star-bat.

As always our movements are optimized for use with the Lightspeed blade only. So if you are using anything else, please take extra safety precautions when trying any of this out.

If you do try it, let us know how it works for you! And meet us back here next Monday for more moves.

[KalSaj]

Interesting! I look forward to seeing more of these kind of videos! Thanks for starting the series.

If you don't mind the question, would you mind explaining something? Why is the full rotation (as shown in the demonstration/tutorial at the beginning) needed versus what happens "In the Wild" (where you easily could have just taken a full step back after the pivot, as you basically did when you walked away)? Is it just an issue of momentum? Is it because that's just how the move is done? Admittedly, I write this having JUST seen it without having a chance to try it in application (I'll give it a go tomorrow) so maybe it's something that is obvious when attempted? But I'm too curious for an answer to wait haha.

[Cang Snow]

Why is the full rotation (as shown in the demonstration/tutorial at the beginning) needed versus what happens "In the Wild" (where you easily could have just taken a full step back after the pivot, as you basically did when you walked away)? Is it just an issue of momentum? Is it because that's just how the move is done? Admittedly, I write this having JUST seen it without having a chance to try it in application (I'll give it a go tomorrow) so maybe it's something that is obvious when attempted? But I'm too curious for an answer to wait haha.

The video example was shot around spring 2016 so I don't fully remember the details of that sparring session. But it could easily be the first time that was done. Though they look a little different, the steps taken are fundamentally the same. The example in 2016 was just a little slower, perhaps less refined. I dare say the example was a bit of luck that I was not hit, and so "walking away" was just a result of knowing I had already scored. Now that it's a codified action in the League, the movements are a bit more specific and, as a result, more effective.

[Master Seblaise]

This move is called a "Volte" in "canne" ... and it is very efficient

[Cang Snow]

This move is called a "Volte" in "canne" ... and it is very efficient

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFqh4IKSA64" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFqh4IKSA64</a>

So, I have never seen this before and it is fascinating! Can you tell me a little more about how this works? I assume it is like boxing but with no knockouts? Try to score as many hits as possible in each round? What is the logic behind the spinning for canne?

[Master Seblaise]

So, I have never seen this before and it is fascinating! Can you tell me a little more about how this works? I assume it is like boxing but with no knockouts? Try to score as many hits as possible in each round? What is the logic behind the spinning for canne?

I am going to try to explain but, in this particular case, i think my English may be limited ... so do not hesitate to ask for clarification lol

So, first, you are right. In France (and also in others countries that imported it), canne is associated with the Savate (french kick boxing) Federation for historical reasons.

A canne assault is 3 rounds of 2 min and the winner is the one who scores hits the most according to 3 judges.

Then comes the spinning. In canne, all strikes must be armed by reaching an armed position. There are some strikes, like the "brisé", that need a spinning to reach the armed position. Here comes a vid from a club in Bordeaux to illustrate.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLzWdMr2vNQ&amp;index=2&amp;list=PLzmyUIsesG3oSRC-iWGUas1O5xMYTjT9P" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLzWdMr2vNQ&amp;index=2&amp;list=PLzmyUIsesG3oSRC-iWGUas1O5xMYTjT9P</a>

In a canne assault, to avoid complete chaos, fighter who reaches an armed position has the priority and the other fighter must (1) wait for the strike and make a parry before counter attacking or (2) make a distinctive move for a direct counter attack. "Voltes", or ringsweep as you said, is an interesting way to make that move. This is a vid from the same club of Bordeaux that illustrates some "volte"

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEgj7Mis0Tc&amp;index=13&amp;list=PLzmyUIsesG3oSRC-iWGUas1O5xMYTjT9P" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEgj7Mis0Tc&amp;index=13&amp;list=PLzmyUIsesG3oSRC-iWGUas1O5xMYTjT9P</a>

I do not know if i have answered your questions but once again, feel free to ask

[Cang Snow]

Thank you seblaise! That is really interesting! I am going to try some of this stuff.

[Master Seblaise]

Thank you seblaise! That is really interesting! I am going to try some of this stuff.

Here comes a sample of what we did ... As you can see, with a 600 g sabers, it is less dynamic than with 100 g wood stick

http://youtu.be/uufIItLFiCc

[Cang Snow]

Here comes a sample of what we did ... As you can see, with a 600 g sabers, it is less dynamic than with 100 g wood stick

http://youtu.be/uufIItLFiCc

Thanks for sharing. You should try a Lightspeed blade

[Master Seblaise]

Thanks for sharing. You should try a Lightspeed blade

Maybe you can tell me the weight of an Initiate V2 with a mid grade blade


Or maybe light speed blade is not a mid grade blade

[Cang Snow]

Maybe you can tell me the weight of an Initiate V2 with a mid grade blade


Or maybe light speed blade is not a mid grade blade

Nope! Not a midgrade blade. Weighs even less but I don't know how much. Perhaps I will find out.

[Master Althalus]

What is the logic behind the spinning for canne?

If I may assist, Seblaise ...
The logic of the Armé in Canne is derived from the original walking cane - which is heavier and was intended as a self-defense weapon. The whipping motion of a strike in French cane fencing serves to concentrate a lot of force in the tip AND immediate return to guard or another strike without having to absorb the force of one's own strike. It's a fluid motion, perfectly suited for the parry-riposte scheme.

The Italian variant uses the spin ("Moulinêt/Molinetto") of sabre-fencing to achieve the same. But this style never got sportified. 

[Master Seblaise]

If I may assist, Seblaise ...

Of course you may

The logic of the Armé in Canne is derived from the original walking cane - which is heavier and was intended as a self-defense weapon. The whipping motion of a strike in French cane fencing serves to concentrate a lot of force in the tip AND immediate return to guard or another strike without having to absorb the force of one's own strike. It's a fluid motion, perfectly suited for the parry-riposte scheme.

The Italian variant uses the spin ("Moulinêt/Molinetto") of sabre-fencing to achieve the same. But this style never got sportified. 

This is very true ... we use the inertia of the canne

[Cang Snow]

And we are back! This time we are going over the Skyhook. This move is an essential counterattack if you are a shorter fencer, helping you to get an angle on opponents who would otherwise be out of reach.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-Xl0TABAi8" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-Xl0TABAi8</a>

It's also a critical action because attacks directed straight at the hand can be very difficult to parry. But sometimes, parrying isn't the answer. And this is especially true in lightsaber.

Have you done the Skyhook? Give it a try and let us know what you think. Remember that it works best against FLAT SWEEPS directed right where you hand is. If you are having trouble pulling it off, keep your hands forward and low, to give the hook more room to maneuver.

As always our movements are optimized for use with the Lightspeed blade only. So if you are using anything else, please take extra safety precautions when trying any of this out.

[Master Althalus]

That's a standard counter-attack in Italian canefencing (called Parata di mano), and quite similar in military sabre-fencing (a parry in Prima, hitting not the blade but the hand). Same thing with a thrust is used in Bolognese sidesword (though the thrust is harder to do).

The thing is: I wouldn't recommend this in saber combat, because of the risk of injury.
It doesn't matter how light the blade is - with enough momentum, a finger is easily broken. Though the target should be the wrist (cutting off a hand is more useful than cutting of a finger), this kind of precision is rarely seen in freefencing. Without the necessary force to push the opponents hand offline, a double-hit is almost certain, though.
So, risky with a vague chance of success, at best - at least with the kind of gloves we usually see in saber combat.