!!! Warning Spoiler Alert !!! The Ep. 8 Topic !!! Warning Spoiler Alert !!!

[Majobu5]

Yeah, the ancient books are definitely in the Falcon. I noticed that the first time, and paid special attention, based on this thread, during my second viewing. While I still have some of the same objections, I did enjoy it more the second time around.

I'm with you.. enjoyed it the second time better than the first time..

What I think may happen for episode 9 is could be a potential 3-4 year jump into the future.. where Leia has since deceased, Rey has begun training a stable of new Jedi with her new books, and a new Alliance is built.

[skribs]

When the Star Destroyers were chasing the Rebels, and they couldn't call in another group of Star Destroyers to flank them, it ruined the movie for me.  It was such a bad tactic that it sent me into Cinema Sins mode, and I was angry throughout the whole movie.

I opened another thread about it, so I'm not going to hash it all out here, but basically it boils down to this:
1.  The fleets seemed small and space tactics were bad.
2.  The Rose character was terribly defined and the Finn and Rose adventure was a "stuff happens to them" story that doesn't affect the rest of the plot AT ALL (and yet we have a huge runtime)
3.  There was no reveal of Snoke's history, nor a satisfying reveal of Rey's parents
4.  Too much plot armor for heroes to survive explosions (Finn, Poe, BB-8)
5.  Finn's character reverts to where he started in TFA, and he goes through the same development (from coward to hero) in this one over again
6.  Why did Luke become One with the Force?  It didn't make tactical sense like it did for Obi-Wan and it wasn't because he was dying like Yoda or (off-screen) Qui-Gon

I REALLY liked the fight between Rey + Kylo vs. Red Guards.  I liked a lot of the interactions between Rey and Luke, and then Rey and Kylo.  I liked Poe's conversation with Hux (even if it was too long), as well as Hux being absolutely dominated by Kylo.  But the space fights were dumb, and this movie had way too many plots that went nowhere to pad the runtime.

IMO, this is better than the prequels, but not by much, and I don't hold the prequels in high regard.

[Master Seblaise]

I totally understand hating a Star Wars movie.

Oh yesss

It is fun that considering Star Wars, fans do not wait for the same thing when a new movie is coming.

I love the Original Trilogy and the Prequels ... and i spent good time with Ep. 8 ... But i consider Ep. 7 as the worst movie ever made  
Many of my friends are in the opposite position: They hate prequels and Ep. 8 but they love Ep. 7 ..

When the Star Destroyers were chasing the Rebels, and they couldn't call in another group of Star Destroyers to flank them, it ruined the movie for me.  It was such a bad tactic that it sent me into Cinema Sins mode, and I was angry throughout the whole movie.

You are right 

But in every SW movie, there are things like that ... Entertainment industry is definitively not good when dealing with strategy

Other point, if a light speed ship can destroy another one ... Why do they do not make that earlier with one of the 2 escort ships?

Imagine, they evacuate one of the ship and put a droid to pilote it ... It makes a U-turn, jumps to hyperspace and cuts Snoke's ship into 2 parts and damages the entire FO fleet ... No need for sacrifice


But this aspect (military credibility) is not important for me considering a SW movie ... so i do not focus on that 

[Bluelightsaber]

A lot of people seem to either love it or hate it. I really liked it (minus what I pointed out). How did it ruin Star Wars? Because they took it in a new direction? There were some plot holes, and maybe some unnecessary humor, but it was much more put together than the prequels, and even had an original story. Just curious how some people hate it so much.

There is a lot of points I've been going over in my head all day and posting on the internet but basically - if a standalone Star Wars movie sucked, so be it. I can ignore it. Make no mistake - TLJ sucked. But it's a part of the main story. THE story that has been spread across 8 movies now. So if one of those movies is bad, it really sours your taste for all the other movies AND all the stuff that made you excited about it on a day to day basis. Luke was my hero of the movies. That was the character I wanted to see come back and really have an awesome couple of Jedi scenes. But nope none of that. But for me, what really stood out for me today that made me go from conflicted to "I HATE IT AND IT MAKES ME SO DEPRESSED THAT IT RUINED STAR WARS" is that I thought about how JJ excellently set up so many plots that were supposed to happen. Rey and Luke meeting on the island was such an awesome ending scene and had so much potential and they LITERALLY threw it away in the movie. The original filmed ending of TFA was/was supposed to be Luke hugging Rey. There was supposed to be some kind of relationship there. Then there was the fact that he was there at all. Something in between 6 and 7 drove him to go into hiding or to go on a journey to search for the first Jedi temple. There was supposed to be something that compelled him to find answers there. There was supposed to be some revelation or history shown to the audience because of this first Jedi temple. Instead it's just "nah he just went there for some peace and quiet" WHAT?!?!? Oh also, he was going to kill a kid.

[Bluelightsaber]

When the Star Destroyers were chasing the Rebels, and they couldn't call in another group of Star Destroyers to flank them, it ruined the movie for me.  It was such a bad tactic that it sent me into Cinema Sins mode, and I was angry throughout the whole movie.

I opened another thread about it, so I'm not going to hash it all out here, but basically it boils down to this:
1.  The fleets seemed small and space tactics were bad.
2.  The Rose character was terribly defined and the Finn and Rose adventure was a "stuff happens to them" story that doesn't affect the rest of the plot AT ALL (and yet we have a huge runtime)
3.  There was no reveal of Snoke's history, nor a satisfying reveal of Rey's parents
4.  Too much plot armor for heroes to survive explosions (Finn, Poe, BB-8)
5.  Finn's character reverts to where he started in TFA, and he goes through the same development (from coward to hero) in this one over again
6.  Why did Luke become One with the Force?  It didn't make tactical sense like it did for Obi-Wan and it wasn't because he was dying like Yoda or (off-screen) Qui-Gon

I REALLY liked the fight between Rey + Kylo vs. Red Guards.  I liked a lot of the interactions between Rey and Luke, and then Rey and Kylo.  I liked Poe's conversation with Hux (even if it was too long), as well as Hux being absolutely dominated by Kylo.  But the space fights were dumb, and this movie had way too many plots that went nowhere to pad the runtime.

IMO, this is better than the prequels, but not by much, and I don't hold the prequels in high regard.

Everything he said ^^

[Landen Se-Sentien]

To answer the question of why did he become one with the Force, you have to put a few pieces together.

1. Luke is old. He is tired. He is there to die.
2. Luke has closed himself off to the Force. Meaning he is out of practice, and what was once easy would now be challenging to certain degrees.
3. When Kylo and Rey have their first Force vision encounter, Kylo says that she isn't the one doing this. She's not strong enough. The effort would kill her. Clearly, this is no small feat, it is taxing, and should be approached with caution.
4. When Luke is finished projecting himself, he is sweaty, crying, and he falls from exhaustion. He struggles to pick himself back up.

It is highly likely that the effort killed him due to his old age, lack of recent training, and the sheer might his actions required.

That's what made it so beautiful. He likely knew it would be his final act, and he accepted it. In true Jedi fashion, despite the odds and inevitable outcome, he did his duty. He did what he had to do, like he always has.

-----

As for him nearly killing a kid, I didn't like that either, but remember how much he flirted with the DS. Also remember that Jedi were supposed to eliminate the DS, but they were also supposed to protect and value life. To me, it was a good picture of the internal conflict of Luke's character. "I can't let this happen again. The Jedi will not be responsible for training another Vader! But he's my nephew. He's a child."

Therefore, although I don't like it, it does fit within the context of the whole SW picture.

[James Casey]

Other point, if a light speed ship can destroy another one ... Why do they do not make that earlier with one of the 2 escort ships?

The escort ships only survived by getting out of range. Under a full barrage from all of the First Order's ships, they'd be vapourised possibly before they could even complete the turn, let alone get up to speed. It's also not clear whether the other ships have transports the way the flagship does. I would assume they do, but I can't remember if the crew abandoned those ships before they were destroyed or if they went down with all hands. If the latter, it just might be too unthinkable a concept to order a medical ship/blockade runner to engage on a suicide mission with a full crew. I do recognise, however, that most would likely rather die while striking a blow than simply get worn down, so I'll mark it up to their overall vulnerabiity!

However, Home One (or whatever the flagship was called) had time to turn in place and get up to speed because all of the First Order ships were dealing with the transports. As the biggest and best shielded ship in the Resistance fleet, it could then survive long enough to jump to lightspeed... briefly. It couldn't do that until the transports were away, though, and had to get close enough to the mining planet for that to be an option.

I do agree that, in the end, Finn and Rose's storyline went nowhere... But that was sort of the point. They risked everything on a marginal percentage chance and it didn't come off, and then that was compounded because Snoke was one step ahead of them the whole time. That's realistic - look at how the bombers were wiped out destroying the Dreadnaught, earning a victory of a sort, but at a huge cost. The Resistance is losing, and reduced to the last few bodies. At the end, Leia's cell is abandoned even by the other cells, because they've been reduced to such a small number of assets that they're not worth risking the rest of the Resistance to save.

So Snoke's death materially weakens the First Order - He was the mastermind, where neither Hux nor Ren appears to have anything like the same talent for scheming and long term planning (Empire building, quite literally!) so his death gives the Resistance a big chance to fight back, even if Ren is likely to come down even harder on Resistance activities.

[Layana]

There is a lot of points I've been going over in my head all day and posting on the internet but basically - if a standalone Star Wars movie sucked, so be it. I can ignore it. Make no mistake - TLJ sucked. But it's a part of the main story. THE story that has been spread across 8 movies now. So if one of those movies is bad, it really sours your taste for all the other movies AND all the stuff that made you excited about it on a day to day basis. Luke was my hero of the movies. That was the character I wanted to see come back and really have an awesome couple of Jedi scenes. But nope none of that. But for me, what really stood out for me today that made me go from conflicted to "I HATE IT AND IT MAKES ME SO DEPRESSED THAT IT RUINED STAR WARS" is that I thought about how JJ excellently set up so many plots that were supposed to happen. Rey and Luke meeting on the island was such an awesome ending scene and had so much potential and they LITERALLY threw it away in the movie. The original filmed ending of TFA was/was supposed to be Luke hugging Rey. There was supposed to be some kind of relationship there. Then there was the fact that he was there at all. Something in between 6 and 7 drove him to go into hiding or to go on a journey to search for the first Jedi temple. There was supposed to be something that compelled him to find answers there. There was supposed to be some revelation or history shown to the audience because of this first Jedi temple. Instead it's just "nah he just went there for some peace and quiet" WHAT?!?!? Oh also, he was going to kill a kid.

I think you just have too many expectations in your head, how it should have been and how they should have done it. No wonder that it ruined your expectations, because that's the idea of this movie: not to make a remake of the old story. Isn't this what everyone wanted after saying that TFA was a ripoff? I think this is not their fault but yours. A shame that you let it ruin, like, everything. It's not like the other films are suddenly bad or the whole franchise is bad because of one film that didn't go like you wanted. But yeah. I cannot do anything about your feelings. I just don't understand this way of thinking.

[Noctis]

I am 1000% sure I will be sorry for writing this, but I'll say it anyway.

Reading the level of nit-picking all over the internet is exhausting to me.  Applying realism to a FICTIONAL verse is baffling to me.  Just because every little detail isn't explained or elaborated on doesn't make it a "bad" movie or book or storyline or what have you.  Everyone is absolutely entitled to their opinion and I'm certainly not trying to change anyone's mind because I believe differently, but I just don't understand how people can go into a movie . . . ANY movie . . . with these exorbitant, unrealistic expectations and then be so surprised when their expectations aren't met.

Yes, yes, there are such things as plot holes and incongruent pieces of information and "why did this happen and not that?"  But honestly, a single thing like a bomb not working how it would in actual space ruining a movie for a person is beyond me.   Apologies if I sound exasperated. And yes, I also know the argument about passionate fans and physics and all that.  This is just my opinion and by all means, overlook it an move on.  It's not important.  It's just something that bothers me about EVERY Star Wars movie that comes out.  And that's MY gripe about the movie. 

May the Force be with you!

[Layana]

I am 1000% sure I will be sorry for writing this, but I'll say it anyway.

Reading the level of nit-picking all over the internet is exhausting to me.  Applying realism to a FICTIONAL verse is baffling to me.  Just because every little detail isn't explained or elaborated on doesn't make it a "bad" movie or book or storyline or what have you.  Everyone is absolutely entitled to their opinion and I'm certainly not trying to change anyone's mind because I believe differently, but I just don't understand how people can go into a movie . . . ANY movie . . . with these exorbitant, unrealistic expectations and then be so surprised when their expectations aren't met.

Yes, yes, there are such things as plot holes and incongruent pieces of information and "why did this happen and not that?"  But honestly, a single thing like a bomb not working how it would in actual space ruining a movie for a person is beyond me.   Apologies if I sound exasperated. And yes, I also know the argument about passionate fans and physics and all that.  This is just my opinion and by all means, overlook it an move on.  It's not important.  It's just something that bothers me about EVERY Star Wars movie that comes out.  And that's MY gripe about the movie. 

May the Force be with you!

THANK YOU! THIS! Point

[skribs]

To answer the question of why did he become one with the Force, you have to put a few pieces together.

1. Luke is old. He is tired. He is there to die.
2. Luke has closed himself off to the Force. Meaning he is out of practice, and what was once easy would now be challenging to certain degrees.
3. When Kylo and Rey have their first Force vision encounter, Kylo says that she isn't the one doing this. She's not strong enough. The effort would kill her. Clearly, this is no small feat, it is taxing, and should be approached with caution.
4. When Luke is finished projecting himself, he is sweaty, crying, and he falls from exhaustion. He struggles to pick himself back up.

It is highly likely that the effort killed him due to his old age, lack of recent training, and the sheer might his actions required.

That's what made it so beautiful. He likely knew it would be his final act, and he accepted it. In true Jedi fashion, despite the odds and inevitable outcome, he did his duty. He did what he had to do, like he always has.

-----

As for him nearly killing a kid, I didn't like that either, but remember how much he flirted with the DS. Also remember that Jedi were supposed to eliminate the DS, but they were also supposed to protect and value life. To me, it was a good picture of the internal conflict of Luke's character. "I can't let this happen again. The Jedi will not be responsible for training another Vader! But he's my nephew. He's a child."

Therefore, although I don't like it, it does fit within the context of the whole SW picture.

Luke did not appear closed off from the Force, other than the one scene where they said he was.  That scene didn't match everything else Luke did in the movie.

[Layana]

Luke did not appear closed off from the Force, other than the one scene where they said he was.  That scene didn't match everything else Luke did in the movie.

I had the impression, he was. As had all of the people I was with, watching the movie.

[Majobu5]

Luke was closed off.. if he wasnt, why did he ask "where's han?"

Certainly he would have sensed his old friend's death.. he was closed off.. he would have sensed Rey

[Samhain138]

I watched it again.  I enjoyed it more this time.

[Landen Se-Sentien]

I am 1000% sure I will be sorry for writing this, but I'll say it anyway.

Reading the level of nit-picking all over the internet is exhausting to me.  Applying realism to a FICTIONAL verse is baffling to me.  Just because every little detail isn't explained or elaborated on doesn't make it a "bad" movie or book or storyline or what have you.  Everyone is absolutely entitled to their opinion and I'm certainly not trying to change anyone's mind because I believe differently, but I just don't understand how people can go into a movie . . . ANY movie . . . with these exorbitant, unrealistic expectations and then be so surprised when their expectations aren't met.

Yes, yes, there are such things as plot holes and incongruent pieces of information and "why did this happen and not that?"  But honestly, a single thing like a bomb not working how it would in actual space ruining a movie for a person is beyond me.   Apologies if I sound exasperated. And yes, I also know the argument about passionate fans and physics and all that.  This is just my opinion and by all means, overlook it an move on.  It's not important.  It's just something that bothers me about EVERY Star Wars movie that comes out.  And that's MY gripe about the movie.  

May the Force be with you!

Agreed. Point. It's our expectations that ruin just about anything. Going in with a clear, open mind really helps.

I had the impression, he was. As had all of the people I was with, watching the movie.

Luke was closed off.. if he wasnt, why did he ask "where's han?"

Certainly he would have sensed his old friend's death.. he was closed off.. he would have sensed Rey

Yep. Point and fist bump, respectively.

I watched it again.  I enjoyed it more this time.

Good. I'm glad it's better.