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Author Topic: the best saber style for Soresu?  (Read 4178 times)
Appius Wight
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« on: February 26, 2018, 02:30:27 PM »

let me just start this of by saying I know that the 7 forms have very little real life applications or practicalities. We are essentially talking about magic space wizards using deadly glowsticks to go all slicey slicey on each other whilst shooting lightening out of their hands like some magic the gathering spell card. However, This is the star wars universe where the concept of reality has its book firmly shut and thrown out the window (and stomped a couple of times for good measure.)

So with that in mind what style provides the best defence? single blade like obi wan? duel weild or saberstaff like daeth zannah? When it comes to Soresu i think dual weilding sabers might provide the best defence. I think i read or watched somewhere that having the saber in the non dominant hand in the reverse grib and the other in the normal grip provides a full 360 degree coverage because you cover one half of your body with one and the other half with the other.

why Soresu? Its just my favourite of them all. Smiley

what do you all think?
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Master Seblaise
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« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2018, 02:49:09 PM »

We are all Nerds with glowsticks Wink

In my opinion and in my opinion only, the best defense style is when using two medium blades (Initiate with 32" for example) ...







And maybe this thread should be moved to the combat section ... even if it does not deal with what you called "real life applications or practicalities" ... because you will have more discussion and feedback in the other section Wink
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Appius Wight
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« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2018, 04:26:14 PM »

ah fair point my friend. Shall i just repost it in the saber combat section?
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Dauntless Seven
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« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2018, 04:28:20 PM »

Hi.  Master Seb... your wish is my command.  Will move this post to the Saber Combat section.  Smiley
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Appius Wight
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« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2018, 04:39:49 PM »

Thanks guys. I appreciate that. And master seb i see you are of the same opinion as I. Smiley
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Master Seblaise
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« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2018, 05:12:31 PM »

Hi.  Master Seb... your wish is my command. 


You are a light in my life My Lady Wink

Thanks guys. I appreciate that. And master seb i see you are of the same opinion as I. Smiley


I think we have "almost" the same opinion within the members of this forum  Grin

There is a interesting discussion on this Topic :

http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=37993.0

But, after all, we are all geek here Wink
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« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2018, 05:14:08 PM »

let me just start this of by saying I know that the 7 forms have very little real life applications or practicalities. We are essentially talking about magic space wizards using deadly glowsticks to go all slicey slicey on each other whilst shooting lightening out of their hands like some magic the gathering spell card. However, This is the star wars universe where the concept of reality has its book firmly shut and thrown out the window (and stomped a couple of times for good measure.)

So with that in mind what style provides the best defence? single blade like obi wan? duel weild or saberstaff like daeth zannah? When it comes to Soresu i think dual weilding sabers might provide the best defence. I think i read or watched somewhere that having the saber in the non dominant hand in the reverse grib and the other in the normal grip provides a full 360 degree coverage because you cover one half of your body with one and the other half with the other.

why Soresu? Its just my favourite of them all. Smiley

what do you all think?

Hey Appius, we spoke over on Reddit.  Just figured I'd chime in here and help out as best I can.  Let's look at this from several points of view

From the point of view of real combat, it's going to greatly depend on your weapon training and experience.  Most people are aware that dual wielding effectively in real life is extremely difficult, and typically requires a good deal of training to properly coordinate two separate weapons.  The saberstaff in this context is very limited, and in terms of real combat is more of a hindrance than benefit.  Single saber is a reliable standard, allowing for either one handed or two handed usage for defensive measures in a variety of scenarios.  In terms of flexibility, I would say that's the best bet in this context (although we could easily open up the definition of "defense" to include counterattacks and the like, which brings in new things to consider!)

From a lore point of view, with the limited information available on the actual specifics of the Forms, I'm going to look at the users of these Forms.  Obi-Wan is certainly the most famous, using a single saber.  Beyond that, you have characters like Luminara Unduli, Kanan Jarrus, and likely many other Jedi (as Soresu is strongly aligned with their Code).  All these Jedi use a single lightsaber, which is hardly surprising considering the rarity of two weapon usage in Star Wars canon.  If you look at the Dark Side, you essentially only have Darth Zannah to go on, who uses a saberstaff.  IMO, the use of the Force to anticipate attacks would likely lend some practicality to the saberstaff and dual wield options.  With two blades to use in defense, and precognition, a Force User would potentially be more equipped to protect their target areas.

Finally, if you're looking for a storytelling point of view (for something like Role Playing or Choreography), the difference between the three options becomes contingent on character, as well as the era being explored.  In the films, set within a period of roughly a century, the use of a saberstaff or two weapons is VERY rarely seen.  Notable examples I can think of are Asajj Ventress, Darth Maul, Darth Sidious, Savage Oppress, Pong Krell, and Jedi Temple Guards (with some situational dual wielding from various characters in the Clone Wars).  Notice the fact that most all the aforementioned characters are Dark Siders - these northodox weapons are a nod to the individualistic nature of the villains, whereas the Jedi Order is known for its standardization of weapons and attire.  The saberstaff in this era is strongly associated with Dark Siders, likely because of the potential aggressive applications of the weapon.  For this reason, from a character point of view, I would rule that option out.

Overall, if you start to delve back into the really old school days of the Republic, your options open up.  Within canon, you're likely somewhat limited.  One last note I'll make is that your character's interests will also move you toward a certain weapon setup.  I consider the saberstaff and duel wield to be advanced methods that would be more likely studied by those skilled in lightsaber dueling.  For someone more like a Consular, whose interests are more academic and diplomatic, it's unlikely that this level of advanced combat training would be interesting or useful.  Just keep that in mind!
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Master Seblaise
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« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2018, 06:11:50 PM »

 With two blades to use in defense, and precognition, a Force User would potentially be more equipped to protect their target areas.

Exactly my thought.

And i woulda add, IMO, If the two blades are used for defense only (and assuming that the duelist know how to use the blades), even in real life, the protection will be very strong ...
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Appius Wight
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« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2018, 06:16:40 PM »

Hi Nero! great to hear from you again. Thanks for that detailed analysis of each kind of weapon. It kind of makes sense now why Obi Wan never really diel weilded with form 3 (unless he did in TCW, my memory is a bit foggy) and yes i agree with you that the saberstaff in particular leans more towards dark side users due to its more than likely aggressive applications. A single blade keeps you more flexible and mobile in that regard.

Thanks for that explanation. When i finally do make a character i think ill stick to old reliable single saber haha!
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Master Althalus
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« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2018, 11:46:54 AM »

Quote
So with that in mind what style provides the best defence?
Fast footwork and mastery of distance.  Grin
Not being where the strike lands is always the best defense.
The weapon does not matter all that much from this perspective, though longer reach can be a bonus.

What's not been discussed is the crossguard saber. Better protection for the hands, and some nasty possibilites in the bind.
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Appius Wight
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« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2018, 02:50:34 PM »

ah yes master ahtlas! i forgot about that type of saber. Thank you for mentioning it. That does change things somewhat.
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Ander
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« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2018, 08:30:36 AM »

A bit about Form III in LudoSport.

The way we teach it, Soresu is moving in the arena, freely, while defending and covering yourself when needed. Let's consider the typical situation of two opponents facing each other; then one attacks with a Shii-Cho Destro (imagine an horizontal swing at elbow height on the right side). What the defender can do, in that moment, with is body, is:

-standing still
-moving away from the opponent
-moving closer to the opponent
-moving toward the blade
-moving away from the blade

The first two choices lead to very basic defenses which are taught within the basic part of Form I. The third one is harder, and leads to more difficult techniques taught within the advanced part of Form I. The last two lead to much harder movements, and are taught within Form III (which also teaches different ways of moving when choosing the second or third possibility).

In a way, in our Form III, the blade is incidental; it's an extension of your arm, and is used to cover your body while moving, not as a rigid barrier like in most of Form I. There are some strikes, but they are taught late in the program, as most hits come as conclusion of defensive movements.

Soresu is very, very hard, and very few really master it. But if you do, then you really can move however you like, and have multiple solutions for defending from every position.

Ciao and have fun!
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Andrea Ungaro | Ander
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