Dating/Romance Thread Removed

[Master Nero Attoru]

After discussion with my fellow Mods, I have removed the Dating/Romance thread altogether.  While this may seem drastic, I'll explain my rationale so that no one is confused.

This forum has a handful of rules, but ultimately they all boil down to a simple idea - making this forum a great place to enjoy discussion about our interests (lightsabers in particular).  All of our policies point to this goal, which makes it the core of what we Mods strive for.  One rule in particular, no discussion of religion or politics, has some parallels to this situation.  I think we can all understand why politics and religion are avoided here, considering the strong opinions and emotional ties people have to such topics.  On that same note, doesn't the same thing apply to discussions of romance, dating, and love?  There are few concepts in our lives that elicit stronger emotional reactions than romantic connections to other humans.  Love gives us some of the greatest heights, and deepest depths of emotion we tend to experience in our lives.  Considering this, it's easy to see how a thread like this (dating/romance) can and WILL cause trouble.

I know, love and our relationship to other people are important topics, and you all want to discuss those topics with your friends here on Saberforum.  Unfortunately, there's just no way to be sure that discussion won't get heated (as it has repeatedly over the life of this thread).  My job as a Moderator is to make this a welcoming place for people of all backgrounds, and a hot button topic like romance is only going to make that goal harder and harder.  I don't mind putting in the work, and I do encourage you all to continue to report issues, but ultimately I wish to avoid alienating any potential members.

Additionally, I'm going to ask that no further threads along these lines be created.  It's not an official rule (yet), but I strongly believe that they will only cause trouble.  Any questions, as always, feel free to contact me.

[Jev Moldara]

Sure thing. I can be a cold emotionless robot. Not like I haven't had practice.

[Darth Logos]

My only concern is that it will inevitably spill out into other threads. That's why I created it in the first place; to give people a place to discuss such things without derailing other topics, or worse, boring others that have no interest reading about the minutia of people's love lives, or lack there of. But so be it.

[Master Nero Attoru]

My only concern is that it will inevitably spill out into other threads. That's why I created it in the first place; to give people a place to discuss such things without derailing other topics, or worse, boring others that have no interest reading about the minutia of people's love lives, or lack there of. But so be it.

It came from a good intention, I don't doubt that.  The idea itself has merit, but the eventuality of such topics will always be emotions running high.  I suggest that we all maintain a "common sense rule," which is to consider the topic we're posting about and whether it could cause strong reactions. 

For the record, I certainly don't want to start censoring discussion here, and I'm aware how that slippery slope could occur.  However, it's my duty here to walk that tightrope between a hostile environment, and clamping down on free speech.  I intend to perform that duty as best I can.

[Jev Moldara]

To address one of the points made by Master Nero...

I know, love and our relationship to other people are important topics, and you all want to discuss those topics with your friends here on Saberforum.  Unfortunately, there's just no way to be sure that discussion won't get heated (as it has repeatedly over the life of this thread).

No offense, but you can't guarantee that any thread won't get heated, especially when personal lives are being discussed.

My concern is that if that topic becomes banned, it becomes a slippery slope. The next time a thread topic gets heated, the precedent has been set to simply ban the topic. It could get to the point where the Off-Topic section as a whole is removed, which leaves no avenue for us to socialize (metaphorically speaking).

EDIT: I see the slippery slope has been mentioned. Still, the point is valid.

It came from a good intention, I don't doubt that.  The idea itself has merit, but the eventuality of such topics will always be emotions running high.  I suggest that we all maintain a "common sense rule," which is to consider the topic we're posting about and whether it could cause strong reactions.  

For the record, I certainly don't want to start censoring discussion here, and I'm aware how that slippery slope could occur.  However, it's my duty here to walk that tightrope between a hostile environment, and clamping down on free speech.  I intend to perform that duty as best I can.

True enough, but the simple fact of the matter is that when you foster an environment where free speech is allowed, that environment comes with a free helping of Dissenting Opinions. That's the point.

The answer lies not in banning the topic of discussion to avoid arguments. It lies in taking steps to ensure that those arguments do not get out of hand.

That is not what you guys did here. What you did was the equivalent of cutting off your finger to get rid of a splinter. It's way too much for the issue and leaves the body less than it was before.

[Darth Logos]

It came from a good intention, I don't doubt that.  The idea itself has merit, but the eventuality of such topics will always be emotions running high.  I suggest that we all maintain a "common sense rule," which is to consider the topic we're posting about and whether it could cause strong reactions. 

For the record, I certainly don't want to start censoring discussion here, and I'm aware how that slippery slope could occur.  However, it's my duty here to walk that tightrope between a hostile environment, and clamping down on free speech.  I intend to perform that duty as best I can.

Understood. Thanks.

[ThreadJack]

I see that you have your reasons, but like Jev, I am worried that this may not be the end of it. Especially the off topic section being of particular concern. Unless I missed something(possible I've not been on a lot the past couple days), nothing alarming was occurring in that thread. I can think of other threads you could easily remove under the same reasoning(one of which is very popular, probably the most frequently posted in and starts with an "R")

I'm not trying to be disrespectful, I'm just worried is all.

[Master Nero Attoru]

I see that you have your reasons, but like Jev, I am worried that this may not be the end of it. Especially the off topic section being of particular concern. Unless I missed something(possible I've not been on a lot the past couple days), nothing alarming was occurring in that thread. I can think of other threads you could easily remove under the same reasoning(one of which is very popular, probably the most frequently posted in and starts with an "R")

I'm not trying to be disrespectful, I'm just worried is all.

I see your point, but the distinction here is that the topic of romance specifically was causing the issue.  Strong feelings resulting from the pain of personal relationships have time and again resulted in people saying some pretty extreme things on the dating thread.  This has resulted in me receiving multiple PMs over time, with various members feeling uncomfortable with the environment these emotion driven posts have fostered.  In some cases, members left the forum for that very reason, which is something I'd like to avoid in the future.

To address specific threads, Random Thoughts has always been something we've needed to watch closely, but there are no plans at this time for any of us to remove it.  The wide berth of that topic allows conversation to ebb and flow, and in many cases prevents a particular line of thought from becoming too... aggressive in nature.  Venting is another tricky one, by its nature it deals with frustration and anger.  However, that typically is directed at parties outside this forum, and often these complaints are met with sympathy.  Again, the general nature of that topic means that it's not centered around any particular controversial topic, and therefore the inflammatory discussion is often diluted by the sheer number of random unrelated posts.

I'm deliberately avoiding naming members who have contributed to the conflict on the dating thread, because I wish to avoid negativity being directed towards them.  As such, I strongly recommend that everyone avoid pointing fingers or holding grudges in relation to this Mod action.  ANY of us could stir up trouble on a thread, on the wrong day.  If anyone here feels otherwise, and claims to be 100% calm and in control at all times... well, I'd love for you to teach me your Jedi ways!  I sure as HELL can't keep it together all the time (I consider it an accomplishment just to keep my cool MOST of the time), so I know others likely have the same challenges.

[ThreadJack]

I see your point, but the distinction here is that the topic of romance specifically was causing the issue.  Strong feelings resulting from the pain of personal relationships have time and again resulted in people saying some pretty extreme things on the dating thread.  This has resulted in me receiving multiple PMs over time, with various members feeling uncomfortable with the environment these emotion driven posts have fostered.  In some cases, members left the forum for that very reason, which is something I'd like to avoid in the future.

To address specific threads, Random Thoughts has always been something we've needed to watch closely, but there are no plans at this time for any of us to remove it.  The wide berth of that topic allows conversation to ebb and flow, and in many cases prevents a particular line of thought from becoming too... aggressive in nature.  Venting is another tricky one, by its nature it deals with frustration and anger.  However, that typically is directed at parties outside this forum, and often these complaints are met with sympathy.  Again, the general nature of that topic means that it's not centered around any particular controversial topic, and therefore the inflammatory discussion is often diluted by the sheer number of random unrelated posts.

I'm deliberately avoiding naming members who have contributed to the conflict on the dating thread, because I wish to avoid negativity being directed towards them.  As such, I strongly recommend that everyone avoid pointing fingers or holding grudges in relation to this Mod action.  ANY of us could stir up trouble on a thread, on the wrong day.  If anyone here feels otherwise, and claims to be 100% calm and in control at all times... well, I'd love for you to teach me your Jedi ways!  I sure as HELL can't keep it together all the time (I consider it an accomplishment just to keep my cool MOST of the time), so I know others likely have the same challenges.

Okay, now that's a completely different scenario than your original post alluded too. If it was getting that many complaints and already causing issues, than I would agree action was merited. Perhaps maybe you should have led with that Nero?

[Master Nero Attoru]

Okay, now that's a completely different scenario than your original post alluded too. If it was getting that many complaints and already causing issues, than I would agree action was merited. Perhaps maybe you should have led with that Nero?

Probably, although I was kind of hoping y'all would trust me on this one   I've been around here a while, probably second only to you, and I'd dare say that there have been very few instances where I've jumped the gun or done something unreasonable.  In fact, I could probably count the amount of threads I've deleted on one hand...

Anyway, I think we're all on the same page now.  I'm going to lock this topic, but leave it stickied as a reminder to everyone.  Can't learn from our mistakes if we forget them!

[Rapine]

Well, that's unfortunate.

I sincerely apologize for mishandling this.

I can see the less stress part though.  That's a dicey topic, that not everyone is suited for.