Li-Ion setup concerns

[Jemmer]

Hello. I've posted this a couple times now in other Li-Ion, technical support threads and the post keeps 'disappearing', so I'm starting its own thread in case i was somehow breaking some forum etiquette by doing that. Here is the original post with my concern:

Hello. My Saber is a Manticore CE with Obsidian v4 and Emerald drivers. LIon [2 Trustfire LIon AA batteries] and recharge port.  Since my purchase it has been a 'shelf queen'.

I'm Getting prepared to join a dueling league which requires a lit saber for the match, or default of the match if it dies during and cannot be lit again. SO with my Lithium Ion setup i recently did a test on my saber; stop watch - how long do the batteries last? After multiples, give or take a couple minutes - with sound on i got 38 minute counts, and with just LEDs (on silent mode) i steadily got 44 mins.

SO a full charge gives me barely 30 mins use with sounds and average 44 mins use on LEDs only. Is this an accurate Ultrasaber experience?

Also, I can understand the draw for the speakers causing only 30 or so mins of use, but 44 mins maximum for just powering leds only? I have LED flashlights [1000 lumens] that take 2 aaa batteries that have dozens of hours on them between changes. Which makes me wonder if my Li-Ion is a potato and requires warranty repair, or is it functioning normally ans these times are normal power durations? Being new to sabering, and only having one (1) Ultrasaber I have no way of comparing my experience to other comparable Li-Ion Ultrasabers.

Honestly I would value feedback on your saber's longevity. if less than 45 mins use powering only LEDs is normal - I simply cannot use an Ultrasaber at these dueling tourneys and the like;
 - First to 10 points, best of 3 matches, matches range from 20 mins up to 45 mins per match.

Also I noticed a crack in the shell of the battery chassis. In the middle. Could this effect the power draw; or is it just a crack in a piece of plastic and has no effect on possible power leak concerns?

Thanks for reading. I look forward to your reply.
Regards,
Jemmer

[Dauntless Seven]

Hi.  I earlier moved your post from general Questions over to Technical which is the section you are in now... any others I can't speak for.  Your post was here earlier so I just don't know what happened to it.  My apologizes that you have had to make another thread.  Hopefully you have come up with other questions that were added on... but it looks like the original one.  

[Rapine]

Hey there Jemmer,

Sorry to hear of your posts going away - that's messed...

Anyhow, the Li ion batteries that US provides are rated at 800mAh.  In most cases that's quite enough, since people's sabers aren't normally on that long, or they have the chance to swap them out.

Unfortunately, a higher rated 14500 has yet to show itself...to my knowledge at least.

[Jemmer]

Hi.  I earlier moved your post from general Questions over to Technical which is the section you are in now... any others I can't speak for.  Your post was here earlier so I just don't know what happened to it.  My apologizes that you have had to make another thread.  Hopefully you have come up with other questions that were added on... but it looks like the original one.  

Thats so weird. When I go into my profile settings and select to view all my previous posts, this one here in this new thread is the only one that shows in my history regarding my Li-Ion concern. So the others literally disappeared. I'm guessing deleted by someone else. No worries. Its here now and hopefully to stay.

Also yes this is the original post because there has not yet been a resolution to the original question.

Cheers. Regards.

[Jemmer]

Hey there Jemmer,

Sorry to hear of your posts going away - that's messed...

Anyhow, the Li ion batteries that US provides are rated at 800mAh.  In most cases that's quite enough, since people's sabers aren't normally on that long, or they have the chance to swap them out.

Unfortunately, a higher rated 14500 has yet to show itself...to my knowledge at least.

SO I wonder if the participants at these tourneys [I watch on YouTube] have their sabers as a AA NikCad stunt setup for just that reason - bring a box of throw away batteries and swap 'em out as needed several times throughout the day.  Same thing I do for my paintball marker at an all day event.

Danggit. And I thought i was being so clever getting a Li-Ion setup. Lol.

Thanks for this reply. There is a lot of merit in your explanation Lord Rapine. Thanks.

Cheers.

[Rapine]

Oh there certainly are benefits to a Li set-up.  It's all I'll ever use personally.

I'm not sure that just adding nickel based batteries to that is a great idea though.  Be very sure to check the voltage of them, and match it EXACTLY.  It MUST be 7.4v.  That's what it's wired for.

In other words, tons of research first...or just grab a spare set of Li ones...

[Jemmer]

Oh definitely.. I never meant to suggest I was putting nikcad batteries into my Li-Ion saber hilt. I meant to say that they were using a stunt saber using throw aways vs a Li-Ion setup hilt.

[VaporTrail_000]

I've got a Diamond saber, and 30-45mins seems to be fairly accurate as far as it goes... haven't actually timed the saber from fully charged to dead... but have you thought about buying at least one extra set of 14500s for your saber?

My personal solution to this would be a 4-slot Li-ion rapid charger or two 2-slot chargers with a total of four sets of batteries. This would give me one in-use set, one set ready to go, with two sets charging. Trick there would be finding an outlet to plug in the chargers.

Word of caution though, unless you want to be replacing your battery sled, stick to the Trustfire or Xtar 14500s US sells. They seem to be the shortest (and therefore closest to the AA standard length) protected 14500 batteries. Get much longer and you run the risk of stressing the battery sled to the point of it breaking. Other brands (Nitecore for example, from personal experience) are longer, and while they might fit... they're extremely tough to get in/out of the sled, as well as stressing the sled's contact areas.

On that, the location of the crack in your sled might impact how it affects the saber. Anywhere near the contacts and it might separate them from the wires on the sled, causing contact problems. Other areas, not so much, though parting the connection wires from one end to the other is technically possible (though at that point your sled is more likely to be in halves first... or at least nearly). I don't think you'd have power draw problems though, connection problems are far more likely. Basically you'd have issues with the saber remaining lit consistently in a much shorter time frame than 40 minutes, with the saber behaving as if you had a loose battery.  A "power draw" problem would be basically a stable high-resistance connection, unlikely from a broken contact for more than a short while, especially while dueling. A broken contact or wire tends to be either closed or open, with very little possibility of being "in-between" with no other symptoms for very long.

[Jemmer]

Thanks VaporTrail. i found tour post very very helpful. And I really appreciated your suggestion and I think That is the best resolution considering our comparable saber draw times. I'm actually relieved to learn my hilt is functioning normally.

SO about the batteries, if i order from those 7.4v 14500 Trustfires from a supplier in the states (lets just assume it works out that way), have you heard of batteries being a cross border Canada customs issue before? I've never had to deal with such a specific battery concern before. And your explanation as to why those specifics makes perfect sense. 

[DavidYaw]

My Saber is a Manticore CE with Obsidian v4 and Emerald drivers.

...

So a full charge gives me barely 30 mins use with sounds and average 44 mins use on LEDs only. Is this an accurate Ultrasaber experience?

My primary saber is a Sentinel with Obsidian v4 and Flash on Clash. I haven't timed it, but I get about an hour's worth of run time, so 38-44 minutes for Obsidian + Emerald sounds reasonable to me.

If a dead battery is a disqualifying event, then I'd get a stunt saber to use for tournaments. Stunt sabers fade rather than cut off, so you'll have plenty of warning before it goes completely dead. Stunt sabers also have the advantage that they have a latching switch, rather than momentary, so if the batteries lose connection for a moment, the saber stays lit, rather than the electronics powering down and resetting. (Not to mention the risk of damaging the expensive electronics in your main.)

Anyhow, the Li ion batteries that US provides are rated at 800mAh.  In most cases that's quite enough, since people's sabers aren't normally on that long, or they have the chance to swap them out.

Unfortunately, a higher rated 14500 has yet to show itself...to my knowledge at least.

I found some 2000 mAh batteries on Amazon, but they're crap: the saber fades after only 20 minutes or so. (They're probably not lying about the 2000 mAh rating, but it's only 2000 mAh if you're only drawing a light load.) There's a bunch of other 14500s with capacities from 800 to 2000 mAh, so there might be a brand that will work and give a longer runtime, but I didn't want to try any more after the one set of 2000s were so bad. Though I imagine that if there was a manufacturer that made a suitable 1200 mAh 14500 battery, UltraSabers would sell that one instead.

[VaporTrail_000]

Anything over 850 mAh in a 14500 form factor is misrepresented or mislabled. The Xtar or Trustfire 14500s that you can get through US are pretty good batteries. There are better batteries out there, but you're going to pay through the nose (up to double the price per battery) for relatively very little performance increase (a few minutes run-time, at most).

Beware the blue Trustfire 14500s. They aren't anywhere near as good as the Trustfire 14500s with the flame labeling.

[Jemmer]

has anyone heard anything about; or have experience with; the Panasonic NCR18650B Li-Ion batteries? I have been reading some really good things about them, but all of it was vendor endorsements so I was curious if there is any real world comments.

Thanks and cheers.

[Rapine]

Panasonic is a very good name when it comes to batteries.  I'd buy those.

[PrincessKnowItAll]

has anyone heard anything about; or have experience with; the Panasonic NCR18650B Li-Ion batteries? I have been reading some really good things about them, but all of it was vendor endorsements so I was curious if there is any real world comments.

Thanks and cheers.

18650 batteries are too big, they must be 14500 and some are a little taller, so look for batteries that are 14500 and are 14.3 mm x 50.5 mm