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Author Topic: Advice wanted for setting up a Harry Potter tabletop RPG for newbies  (Read 2995 times)
skribs
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« on: April 17, 2018, 09:55:53 PM »

By "newbies" I mean everyone involved would be a newbie.  I'm fairly comfortable with the D20 system, and I've read a lot of stories about people's experience with tabletop RPGs, but I've not got much experience myself, but it's something I've wanted to try.

My family love playing board games, and we recently got Harry Potter Hogwarts Battle to play together.  While we were playing, the discussion of D&D and similar games came up, and I was trying to explain how these games work to my parents, my sister and brother-in-law, and my nephew.  They kind of got the idea, and I think a Harry Potter themed game would be pretty fun.

Now, I'm not looking at something with an incredibly complicated rule-set.  I was more thinking of something story-driven, like what I've seen with the RPGs on this site, or else something with a very loose D20 system, similar to what's in Darths and Droids (where the GM seems to arbitrarily decide the success or failure chance of events, and tells the players either before or after the roll what that threshold was).  I want the players to still keep track of their characters, but not get bogged down too much by the math of it all.

As to the story, I want to use the world established by KA Applegate, and enough of the story from The Sorcerer's Stone as possible to keep the players oriented on what is going on, but I want to change enough of the story and characters that it can be a fresh take.  For example, if I have them take the roles of Harry, Ron, and Hermione, and the same guy is the bad guy, then it will feel redundant.  On the other hand, if I have a different school and a different threat, and the sport is different and the Houses are different, then it won't really feel the same.  I want the players to quickly understand what it means to be in Hufflepuff or Slytherin, to know what Alohamora and Wingardium LeviOsa mean, but to also question who is responsible for the darkness in the story and try to find and defeat the bad guy.

I would welcome any advice at all on this:  either specific to the concepts I've brought up already, or to GMing in general.  I do have a few specific questions:

  • I would want to follow the story of Book 1, to start with the characters receiving their Hogwarts admission letters, meeting each other in Diagon Alley, taking the Hogwarts Express from Platform 9 3/4, and going to the Sorting Ceremony.

    I have a few issues here.  First of all, with the character creation, I kind of want to set up a few backstories (i.e. one character is from a wealthy Muggle family, one character is an orphan of muggleborns that lives with his cruel wizard-hating family, one is from a poor Wizard family that scrapes by, etc) but then let them fill in their character traits from there.

    Second, while I think it would be a nice bit of world immersion to include all of these, there's also not a whole lot of action to be had.  We don't need to have a whole bunch of duels to keep my family interested, but maybe something more than just imaginary shopping and an imaginary train ride.  My Mom and sister especially would prefer real shopping and a real train ride.  I think the wand selection and the Sorting Ceremony could be good ways to interact, but I don't see much for the rest of the shopping list or any of the train ride.

    Third, I kind of want the players to be separated into different Houses.  This way, there's the sense of comradery in that they're trying to stop the same evil, but also a sense of rivalry in the House Cup and the Quidditch matches, among other things.
  • Regarding the NPC cast, if Quirrell is the DADA teacher, then it will be pretty obvious he's the bad guy.  So I want a different DADA teacher.  I'm also considering making some other teachers different, as making Snape, Flitwick, or McGonagall the bad guy would probably be pretty upsetting.  What do you guys think I should do here?
  • I could really use some advice on setting up the mystery of who the bad guy is, as well as setting up puzzles for the heroes to solve.  A source for these ideas would be great.  I'm a writer, but foreshadowing is not my strong suit.

So, am I in over my head?  Or do you guys think I can pull this off?

I would love to hear any advice you could help me out with.

Last thought:  it's entirely possible that this doesn't end up happening, either because I misjudged the interest in it, or because of real-life events.  In any case, I'd like to be armed with this information if I am able to do a tabletop RPG in the future.
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Sani2341
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« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2018, 11:45:49 PM »

Before I got into any of your concrete questions, let me just put the suggestion forward to look at WhiteWolf's d10 based Story teller Systems, as in my opinion, they are much less chancy than d20 Systems, and great to easily fit a character concept.
Espacially as they allow to Mix and match skills and attributes Depending on the Situationen and approach to solving the problem. It is also fairly light on math as you normaly just roll the sum of your Attribute and skill in d10 and see how many come up as successes (normaly every die coming up 7+) to determine how successfull they were at their task.

First off, for something going on beyond a One day/afternoon/evening adventure, I would advise against giving the players Set back stories, as in most cases people have a better motivation and enjoyment following the story of the Charakter they created.


Also having them meet for the first time at diagon alley, if you want to do an in session sorting, or just have them know before Hand, is a good idea. Instead of planning that out completly though, prepare a Set of smaller Events that take place at a few different locations across it, to allow your players to explore how they like. For example you could have some Animals slip their cages in the pet store, or have one of the professors happen across them as they Buy the books for his/her class.

For the houses, I Honestly suggest going with those you as the GM/ST/sorting hat fits the Charakter best, not what would make for a 'good' Story. If they end up in different houses, you can hark back to their Meeting in diagon alley and probably the hogwarts express as well as just putting them together in most of their classes, seeing as many of them were for two houses at once.

Honestly, if you begin changing around teachers, you could start with a different school as well. My suggestion would be to only put in a Different Dada teacher and instead have a seventh grade Wannabe Death Eater cause problems all over the school year.

As for puzzles, I would suggest to get a feel for how your Player are going about everything first, and then give them a bread crumb of evidence here or there if they are going at it more from a CSI esques approach, or have them learn awfully fitting things in various classes, or drop the 'the PCs have to solve everything' stuff if it turns out they are more entertained by simply playing through a 'normal' School year at Hogwarts.

Edit : as for general advise about  GMing, always be ready to scrap all your plans once the players decide to go for something else, and never assume what they will do with the NPCs you provide.
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skribs
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« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2018, 03:46:11 AM »

Quote
Before I got into any of your concrete questions, let me just put the suggestion forward to look at WhiteWolf's d10 based Story teller Systems, as in my opinion, they are much less chancy than d20 Systems, and great to easily fit a character concept.
Espacially as they allow to Mix and match skills and attributes Depending on the Situationen and approach to solving the problem. It is also fairly light on math as you normaly just roll the sum of your Attribute and skill in d10 and see how many come up as successes (normaly every die coming up 7+) to determine how successfull they were at their task.

The one Tabletop RPG I played was in this format.  I didn't enjoy that game, but not because of the format.  The problem is there was only one other person besides the GM, and this was a modern day story where something strange happens, so you're supposed to experience it with your character.  But we didn't have enough people for me to really see how players interact together, and it kind of felt like me vs. the GM and his girlfriend, so it was just awkward for me.  So, I've played that style before, but didn't fully enjoy it.

I was thinking of a system which is more arbitrary, but where the D20 can give a good idea of how well you succeed, and there could be the tropes of critical fails and critical successes, which could be a lot of fun.  I'll consider this system, too, though.

Quote
First off, for something going on beyond a One day/afternoon/evening adventure, I would advise against giving the players Set back stories, as in most cases people have a better motivation and enjoyment following the story of the Charakter they created.

What I was thinking is I create several character sheets for them that are essentially partially filled out.  For example, one person might be from a well-off Muggle family and grew up around electronics (like smart phones, laptops, xbox).  So when they go to the wizarding world and their iphone doesn't work, it gives them an idea of how to react.  Or they get a large lump of money at the start of the year, but because their parents can't go to Gringotts they can't deposit more throughout the year, which would change the dynamic from someone who is from a middle-class wizard family who gets a meager allowance for treats throughout the year.

However, the rest of the character is up to them.  Are they someone who is used to the power that wealth brings?  Are their parents snobs, and they are arrogant as a result?  Are they philanthropists who always want to help others?  Did their parents pay for private tutors so they are excellent studies?  Did their parents pay for private tutors, so they don't know how to study on their own?

I'm basically thinking about creating the lineage and getting them started, but letting them create their own characters.

Quote
Also having them meet for the first time at diagon alley, if you want to do an in session sorting, or just have them know before Hand, is a good idea. Instead of planning that out completly though, prepare a Set of smaller Events that take place at a few different locations across it, to allow your players to explore how they like. For example you could have some Animals slip their cages in the pet store, or have one of the professors happen across them as they Buy the books for his/her class.

I really like this idea.  So basically I can list the stores, tell them which items are on their school list, and then they can choose what stores to go into, and then I can have various events happen at each?  That sounds like a good idea and I'll have to do that.

Quote
For the houses, I Honestly suggest going with those you as the GM/ST/sorting hat fits the Charakter best, not what would make for a 'good' Story. If they end up in different houses, you can hark back to their Meeting in diagon alley and probably the hogwarts express as well as just putting them together in most of their classes, seeing as many of them were for two houses at once.

This is what I was planning on doing.  If they all fit into the same House, fine.  If not, then I can sort them into different Houses.  It would be based on their character and their conversation with the Sorting Hat.  I would also probably take them into another room when I do the sorting, so they can whisper with the Sorting Hat like they do in the book.  I would do them in alphabetical order, too.

Quote
Honestly, if you begin changing around teachers, you could start with a different school as well. My suggestion would be to only put in a Different Dada teacher and instead have a seventh grade Wannabe Death Eater cause problems all over the school year.

This is absolutely brilliant.  I'll do that.  Unless someone has a better idea.  Which I doubt.

Quote
Edit : as for general advise about  GMing, always be ready to scrap all your plans once the players decide to go for something else, and never assume what they will do with the NPCs you provide.

I figured as much.  Luckily this will be a school setting, and I will be combination Albus Dumbledore, every professor, Argus Filch, the prefects, Peeves, and all the bad things that can happen.  These will be First Year students learning how to play a tabletop RPG.

Edit:  To clarify what I mean about the D20 system I was thinking of, it would go something like this:

Say a player has a wand that's good at charms, and they have shown aptitude in that class.  They try to use a charm against a weaker wizard in a duel.  I take those into account and say either:
*Roll 6 or higher and you succeed
*You have a pretty good chance to succeed, go ahead and roll
*Roll and see what happens (I don't have to tell them everything, do I?)

Before they roll, they can obviously point out things to me, like "remember I just got an A on my test for this specific charm" and I can re-evaluate the success chance and then have them roll.  But it wouldn't be like "this gives you +1" or anything like that.  I might say "Okay, roll 5 or higher" or "okay, you're more likely to succeed" or "you're already good at charms, don't push it" or "I already counted that."
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Sani2341
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« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2018, 08:03:05 AM »

The one Tabletop RPG I played was in this format.  I didn't enjoy that game, but not because of the format.  The problem is there was only one other person besides the GM, and this was a modern day story where something strange happens, so you're supposed to experience it with your character.  But we didn't have enough people for me to really see how players interact together, and it kind of felt like me vs. the GM and his girlfriend, so it was just awkward for me.  So, I've played that style before, but didn't fully enjoy it.

That sucks, but don't let a bad group influence how you view the System you played with them.
Quote


I was thinking of a system which is more arbitrary, but where the D20 can give a good idea of how well you succeed, and there could be the tropes of critical fails and critical successes, which could be a lot of fun.  I'll consider this system, too, though.

While critical successes can be fun for a moment, critical failiures are only frustrating and often force the story into strange turns. And on top of that I personaly believe a System with a Dicepool to be better suited for telling a cohesive story, as there a fewer times where a player fails a roll their character should not have much Problem with.
Quote


What I was thinking is I create several character sheets for them that are essentially partially filled out.  For example, one person might be from a well-off Muggle family and grew up around electronics (like smart phones, laptops, xbox).  So when they go to the wizarding world and their iphone doesn't work, it gives them an idea of how to react.  Or they get a large lump of money at the start of the year, but because their parents can't go to Gringotts they can't deposit more throughout the year, which would change the dynamic from someone who is from a middle-class wizard family who gets a meager allowance for treats throughout the year.

However, the rest of the character is up to them.  Are they someone who is used to the power that wealth brings?  Are their parents snobs, and they are arrogant as a result?  Are they philanthropists who always want to help others?  Did their parents pay for private tutors so they are excellent studies?  Did their parents pay for private tutors, so they don't know how to study on their own?

I'm basically thinking about creating the lineage and getting them started, but letting them create their own characters.
Quote

What doesn't it give you or your game if you force people to have certain backgrounds? If you ar Ich worried about the characters all being the same, that hasn’t been a Problem with any of the groups I played with or watched/listened to.
If it is to squeeze the players into they rolls you want for your story, you should adjust your story for the Characters your players end up playing.



I really like this idea.  So basically I can list the stores, tell them which items are on their school list, and then they can choose what stores to go into, and then I can have various events happen at each?  That sounds like a good idea and I'll have to do that.

It's also something you should always have ready, at least as a rough outline to allow for random player decisions.
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skribs
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« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2018, 04:48:37 PM »

Quote
While critical successes can be fun for a moment, critical failiures are only frustrating and often force the story into strange turns. And on top of that I personaly believe a System with a Dicepool to be better suited for telling a cohesive story, as there a fewer times where a player fails a roll their character should not have much Problem with.

I'll keep that in mind.  I've briefly looked at an overview the ruleset, and at the very least I would have to modify some of it. 

  • On the one hand, I'm not entirely sure how important physical traits are going to be for the wizarding world.  Maybe in Quidditch.  I guess if they're doing things like climbing walls, sneaking around, it might be important.
  • Morality is not something I'd be sure how to implement.  I'd want that to be more up to the players, if they want to play the good or bad guy.
  • For several reasons, certain vices wouldn't be included.

One of the big advantages of a D20 system is that since I'd basically be balance testing as I go along, I could easily change things behind the scenes.  For example, if the players are just steamrolling over baddies, then I can start to raise the threshold by just saying "this encounter you need a 12 instead of a 9".
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Sani2341
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« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2018, 06:42:33 PM »

Well for Physical attributes, there will come times where they need to run away, jump over something, or just punch a bully.

Morality  is not something I like to keep track of in games beyond the Reputation the PCs gain either.

As for balancing, the ST System gives you two adjuastable variabels: the result needed for a success and the number of successes required.
I.E. A spell that is supposed to be harder to perform could require a minimum number of successes. A particularly hard to hit target could require more successes or have only 8+ count as success. Same goes for when things should be easier.

In the end though it comes down to what you feel more comfortable using, as when the GM doesn't have fun, noone will enjoy the game.
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skribs
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« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2018, 07:25:44 PM »

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Mortality is not something I like to keep track of in games beyond the Reputation the PCs gain either.

I meant morality, not mortality.  Although it looks like you did the same thing  Smiley

Quote
As for balancing, the ST System gives you two adjuastable variabels: the result needed for a success and the number of successes required.
I.E. A spell that is supposed to be harder to perform could require a minimum number of successes. A particularly hard to hit target could require more successes or have only 8+ count as success. Same goes for when things should be easier.

Ok, fair enough.

Quote
as when the GM doesn't have fun, noone will enjoy the game.

I thought that's when everyone hates the GM?
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skribs
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« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2018, 04:06:30 PM »

Follow-up question on the stat system from White Wolf:  what stat would be used for dueling?

I could see it being:
  • Intelligence/Intellect - usually the stat used for boosting magical power, also useful for knowing more spells
  • Wits - Since I see intelligence vs. wits as more of what you know vs. how quickly you can think on your feet, using the right spell at the right time is more about wits than about intelligence.  Knowing the spell itself required intelligence, but wits are what let you use it
  • Dexterity - Spells require intricate wand movements, so I can see this being dexterity as much as anything else.  Maybe transfiguration (which required more precision) would be dexterity and intelligence, and other spells would be more related to wits?

Also, if anyone else has any ideas that could help me out, I'd love to hear them!
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skribs
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« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2018, 08:02:30 PM »

Ignore my previous reply, I get it better now. 

Which White Wolf game would you recommend?  I think I like the character creation from World of Darkness, although obviously I'd adjust it to fit the Wizarding World.  I don't have any of these, so I need to know which rulebook to get in order to emulate it.

Then again, while I like how they do the skills, I think the attributes are too close together to give any real variance.  From what I can tell, there's 4 versions (Storyteller, Storyteller Revised, Storytelling, and Storytelling revised), and I think what I want is some combination of Storyteller Revised and Storytelling.
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Sani2341
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« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2018, 02:26:17 PM »

Well the obvious choice would probably be Mage, seeing as it is relatively close except for the fact that the Magic System can be much less formulaic than that of HP, but then it can also be exactly like what we see in Harry Potter, fake latin and all, depending on what tradtiotn a charater uses your character. (Link: http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/149562/Mage-The-Ascension-20th-Anniversary-Edition)

Alternatively, if you want to get closer to the seperate spells kind of feeling of Harry Potter, you migth want to take a look at Exalted, where you already have 'charms' the PCs learn and use with their msytical energie reserves, although you would most likely end up scrapping a few pieces of what makes Exalted(PC characters in settign, not the System) exalted. (Link: http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/162759/Exalted-3rd-Edition)

I personally don'T see the attributes at that close together, while they can be used for very similar thigns in many cases, those come from very different approaches to the problem for the character. for example figuring out where some one ran of to could be an inteligence based check, which would allow to figure where he would run to, a perception check to see which route he took, or a wits based check to to figure out possible routes one can take.
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skribs
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« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2018, 07:17:35 PM »

Quote
I personally don'T see the attributes at that close together, while they can be used for very similar thigns in many cases, those come from very different approaches to the problem for the character. for example figuring out where some one ran of to could be an inteligence based check, which would allow to figure where he would run to, a perception check to see which route he took, or a wits based check to to figure out possible routes one can take.

I'm talking about how in some of their systems you get 7/5/3, and in other systems you get 5/4/3.  The later option makes it pretty similar between the three columns.  So I like the numbers in the older system better.

As to skills, I was mainly referring to the way in which they do skills and merits.  I think I like the newer system better, in that different merits cost different amounts of skill points.

So I wanted to combine the two together, and I think the best way to do that is to have a copy of both.  That's why I was looking for one using the revised version of the Storyteller and one using the original version of the Storytelling.

----

I was thinking with the skills of doing one column for their aptitude with certain classes.  For example:
Charms
Transfiguration
Defense Against the Dark Arts
Potions
Herbology
Care of Magical Creatures
History of Magic
Muggle Studies

This would be kind of between Skills and Knowledge, so I'm not sure exactly how to implement it, but it's a thought I had.

-----

I did find a cool idea for a Macguffin:  The Book that Never Was.  Essentially a book that when you write an event, it never happened.  I think this one would be interesting because both Harry and Voldemort would probably want to undo the night when Lily and James were killed.

-----

We also may end up doing a different IP, depending on how the group feels.  The reason I chose Harry Potter is everyone seems to like Harry Potter, but we're also playing a board game based on the series right now and the others might burn out on that IP in the meantime.

Others we're thinking of:  Star Wars (which should be easy for me to come up with story for), Lord of the Rings (was suggested, but I have no idea how to come up with a story there), or Animorphs.  My family is hesitant there, because they don't know the characters, but I think they're under the impression right now that they will be playing characters from the series, instead of creating new characters for themselves.
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Sani2341
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« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2018, 09:11:44 PM »

I'm talking about how in some of their systems you get 7/5/3, and in other systems you get 5/4/3.  The later option makes it pretty similar between the three columns.  So I like the numbers in the older system better.

As to skills, I was mainly referring to the way in which they do skills and merits.  I think I like the newer system better, in that different merits cost different amounts of skill points.

So I wanted to combine the two together, and I think the best way to do that is to have a copy of both.  That's why I was looking for one using the revised version of the Storyteller and one using the original version of the Storytelling.

In that case I would defenitly suggest the aniversery Edition of Mage, as it uses both the 7/5/3 attribute split, and it's merits are both very approriate for Wizards, and have a stacked cost, aka the more dots you spent on a merit the bigger it's benefits are.
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----

I was thinking with the skills of doing one column for their aptitude with certain classes.  For example:
Charms
Transfiguration
Defense Against the Dark Arts
Potions
Herbology
Care of Magical Creatures
History of Magic
Muggle Studies

This would be kind of between Skills and Knowledge, so I'm not sure exactly how to implement it, but it's a thought I had.

I would just add them as skills or, if you do use mage, replace the magic spheres with the different fields of magic studies.
Quote

-----

I did find a cool idea for a Macguffin:  The Book that Never Was.  Essentially a book that when you write an event, it never happened.  I think this one would be interesting because both Harry and Voldemort would probably want to undo the night when Lily and James were killed.

That does sound like an interesting plot hook, the question now is, is this Set before or after that book messed up the timeline.
Quote

-----

We also may end up doing a different IP, depending on how the group feels.  The reason I chose Harry Potter is everyone seems to like Harry Potter, but we're also playing a board game based on the series right now and the others might burn out on that IP in the meantime.

Others we're thinking of:  Star Wars (which should be easy for me to come up with story for), Lord of the Rings (was suggested, but I have no idea how to come up with a story there), or Animorphs.  My family is hesitant there, because they don't know the characters, but I think they're under the impression right now that they will be playing characters from the series, instead of creating new characters for themselves.

If you do go with starwars, I would heavily encourage you to check d6 Holocron. (d6holocron.com) as they have most of the very old, but still great Star Wars D6 System rule books for download, as well as community conversions of gear and abilities from the newer Star wars Systems.
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skribs
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« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2018, 10:10:56 PM »

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In that case I would defenitly suggest the aniversery Edition of Mage, as it uses both the 7/5/3 attribute split, and it's merits are both very approriate for Wizards, and have a stacked cost, aka the more dots you spent on a merit the bigger it's benefits are.

I will definitely look into that one.

What I'm talking about for merits are the one where:
Languages are 1-3 dots
Good Looking is 2 dots or 4 dots
Some powerful merits are 7 dots
Etc.

Is that how Mage works?
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