STAR WARS FATIGUE?

[Darth Knox]

Over the past few year, everytime a new comic book movie is released there are people who say that we are experiencing comic book movie fatigue. Too many releases, disappointing box office etc.

To that I say "hogwash". If you go by the box office on 2018 releases alone for Black Panther, Infinity War and Deadpool 2, we are far from experiencing CBM fatigue. Also, if you look at the total amount of movies that are released every year (which is about 300) only 10 of those are CBMs. So the market is far from over-saturated.

However, with some fans not liking The Force Awakens and Rogue One, The Last Jedi being so divisive, Solo: A Star Wars Story having mixed reviews and people questioning whether we "need" a Boba Fett movie, are we seeing the beginning of Star Wars fatigue?

Star Wars used to be seen as bulletproof and the franchise that can do no wrong, but it seems the opinion of the fandom has changed in recent years.

Do you think having one Star Wars movie every year is a good idea? Do you think the spin-off movies are a good idea? Should the brand expand the storytelling away from events/characters we already know? Is Star Wars in danger of becoming something ordinary rather than something special?

PLEASE NOTE - I am hoping for constructive and interesting dialogue. Please respect the comments and opinions of everyone, even if they differ from you.

[Samhain138]

I don’t know about bulletproof, it’s been divisive ever since the prequels.  You have to understand the fan base.  You have people who are fans of different things a lot of the time.  Some people only enjoy certain aspects of it.  Some of those aspects have been really misrepresented since the Disney buyout.  It’s only fair since you had such large gaps between trilogies that the fans had to keep it alive through comics, books and games.

Since Disney got it and really swept characters people were attached to under the rug, it’s taken time for them to create growth, and growth can be painful.  And in some cases there’s resistance to it.  But they’ve worked hard to establish their branding of Star Wars and I can appreciate that.

But the question at hand is about a movie a year being too much.  Can you burn out on Star Wars?  I say a little.  Here’s my gripe.  I go to see Star Wars, not single character spin off movies.  I want the bigger picture movie that moves the narrative.  Star Wars isn’t built like a comic book.  You (in my opinion) cant sell me Star Wars without the greater narrative.  You can sell Spider Man on his own, but I’m not jumping for a “Solo” movie no matter what surprises are in store.  Get what I’m saying?   I don’t need a Fett movie, I don’t need a Kenobi movie.  That’s what books and video games are for. 

But that’s just my opinion and it’s probably not the popular one, but that’s how I feel.

[Darth Knox]

You have to understand the fan base. 

I totally understand the fan base. I'm just trying to engender interesting debate.

But that’s just my opinion and it’s probably not the popular one, but that’s how I feel.

This is definitely not about being "popular". You are entitled to your opinion and it is just as valid as everyone else's. So no need to apologise for it.

Good take on the franchise too.

[Master Seblaise]

It is only my opinion and it does not feed the discussion but ...


... I will never experience a Star Wars Fatigue 

 

[Obese Wan Kenobese]

With what I'm seeing and hearing about the Solo movie's nearly empty theater on Saturday, as well as what I'm seeing in collectibles and memorabilia, I'd say they've touched fatigue/saturation. Had they managed to walk the fine sharp edged balance that the originals did, we'd have Star Wars nirvana instead of fatigue. I'm a fan, collector and cosplayer to a point of being mocked for it. Ep7 and 8 don't inspire me to buy nor emulate. Rogue One was good, but unnecessary. Solo was fun, but unnecessary. Rebels had potential, but feels rushed and unfinished. Most of the Disney canon books I've read fall very short of the SW resonance the pre-Disney books had. Not only are things rushed for money grubbing, but those pushing to change our culture have been wedging their interests in to all entertainment in a way that is not natural, smooth nor warranted.

Story themes separated by nearly 40 years have suddenly been thrown back into the mix together and we're all struggling to catch up, and none of us can possibly have the slightest idea what to expect. Lucas creates Star Wars. Star Wars creates nerds. Lucas sells Star Wars. Disney destroys Star Wars. Disney canon murders nerds. A new audience of different nerds inherits a new Star Wars. The point is you are live when Disney starts to eat you.

[Edon Bluewolf]

Went to Comicpalooza today and only got a few things.  However most of what I purchased were prequel SW action figures (darth maul, plo koon, and a senatorial guard).  Say what you will about the prequels, but they have alot of characters in them that make for great merchandise that I am to this day still buying.  By contrast, I have absolutely no desire to purchase anything from the Last Jedi.  Major disappointment of a movie for me, but on top of that the merchandise is not inspiring.  Who wants a Snoke after how easily he was killed?  What Jedi action figures does anyone want besides maybe Rey?  Reluctant wussy old man Luke, dying on a rock?  No thank you.  I'm quite happy with golden boy Luke from the originals.  That Luke inspired hope.  Darth Vader or helmetless Kylo Ren, is there really any competition as to which figure I would rather have in my collection?  Absolutely not especially after trashing the helmet.  Look, I like the Force Awakens and saw a lot of potential in that.  Too bad Rian Johnson went in another "artistic" direction.  Says a lot that I am still buying merchandise from the movies that are over a decade old, rather than spending that dough on new merchandise from the same franchise.  Lastly, what new lightsaber was introduced?  Seriously that weapon is the main reason this forum even exists it has that much clout, sometimes I think I am now becoming more of a light saber fan than a Star Wars fan, which is rather sad as I would like to continue to be both but TLJ really kicked me in the pants.  I know some won't agree and I respect that, but hey that's what makes for interesting dialogue.

[Lord_S_Gray]

Star Wars used to be seen as bulletproof and the franchise that can do no wrong, but it seems the opinion of the fandom has changed in recent years.

This is a good point, the franchise was always strong no matter the failings of individual components of it e.g. some poor EU fiction, dodgy merchandising, poor games did all happen but overall the essence was strong enough to survive all of that - even the Prequels it survived stronger for it overall by expanding the field. 

Do you think having one Star Wars movie every year is a good idea? Do you think the spin-off movies are a good idea? Should the brand expand the storytelling away from events/characters we already know? Is Star Wars in danger of becoming something ordinary rather than something special?

I think the answer is yes, more expansion offers more opportunity, overall the individuals movies might be of varying quality and divide opinions, but they expand the overall franchise further.  Having said that there is a point where it becomes too unwieldy - the old EU was getting that way. I think something can be learnt from Harry Potter here - it was always tight on just the core characters and events and so far only on major branch off - as it stands taking Disney purchase as the starting point we have 4 or so main strands VII and VIII, Rogue One, Solo and the TV series - (more if you include the comics but i'll keep to the movies). 

And here is the second thing that Star Wars can learn from - the Marvel Cinematic Universe  - Solo has the potential to expand of in a few directions, but kept tight (the main characters at th end of the movie) could provide at least 2-3 decent films building off of it.  Where MCU has character focus SW should have time frame focus - one series of films Pre Original trilogy (Rogue one being the first - though the mass death ruined any potential that had for sequels - Solo the second) The Second the continuation of the 'core saga' IX and a third could slot in as between RotJ and the Force Awakens.

Kept tight like that 1 movie from alternating time periods every 6-8 months could be very well received and I don't think would fatigue most people.  But it needs to keep cohesion, the ground work i think is there, had Rogue one not blown the characters apart it would be even stronger and could've tied into 'Solo' at some point.  I think fatigue will really come once there are too many threads to hold together across too many disparate time zones (X Men franchise anyone...). 

Ultimately it will be Disney as a business that decides what to do, and i suspect so long as there are new 5-12 year olds coming through you will see a new movie every year for quite a while.

[Illyiss]

I don't think it's fatigue.  I think it's the new directions of the main series is not what fans wanted/expected, and they are thus hesitant about the spin offs.  I haven't seen Solo, because I'm broke AF.  I liked Rogue One.  Rogue one, they have a framework within the original context they had to stay within.  I don't think people are burning out on Star Wars, I think they are disappointed that new Star Wars is not old Star Wars.  We killed the only two good Kennedy's, and the rest of the family has destroyed everything they can since. 

[Darth Knox]

Lots of interesting opinions on this topic. Some directly linked to the overall topic, some not so much. But good to read nonetheless. Here we go with my opinions.

QUICK NOTE - None of my comments are targetted at anybody on this site/thread.

1) Show Business
I do find it ironic that some fans blame Disney for what they view as ruining the franchise. The only reason why George Lucas sold Lucasfilm to begin with was the continued hate and backlash from some fans regarding the prequels. Do i blame Disney for buying the franchise? No. They are a business and Star Wars is a franchise that can make them lots of money. And it's not like they forced Lucan to sell. That was his decision.

2) Art vs Money
MGM Studios has a motto on their logo. "Ars Gratia Artis”, which means “art for the sake of art”. This is a nice sentiment. As film fans I know that we would like to believe that movies should be this artistic endeavour, one that creates a product that gives viewers and fans exactly what they want. But the truth is, it is a business. Everything ANY studio makes is designed to make money. Do they care if the end product is some timeless masterpiece that will be revered for decades to come? Maybe one or two studio execs may do, but on the whole all they care about is "what will out return on investment be and how much related merchandise can we sell".

3) Time makes the heart grow fonder
Time is a funny thing. When the prequels came out, because there had been such a big gap since ROTJ, people initially thought they were the "best movies ever" (a generalisation I know). Then the rush wore off and people began to see the cracks and failings; the analyses began and lots of hate came out. I do believe that for some parts of the fandom have taken some time, revisited the prequels and realised that not EVERYTHING is bad with them. Yes, Jar-Jar is annoying and, yes, some of the dialogue is bad/cheesy, but across the three film there is some good in them.

4) The EU vs New Canon.
I think some fans have (and never will) forgive Disney for essentially starting again with the EU, relegating all the previous entries to "Legends". However, if those fans are really truthful to themselves, they will realise that the EU was very confusing and had many contradictions within. Starting again, as a starting for new and existing fans, made sense. Personally, I don't follow the EU stuff as there is just too much. I have no idea where to start with all the comics and books. I did watch Rebels, but I felt the ending was rushed and didn't stick the landing that was being set-up for 4 seasons.

5) Too many releases
I think the biggest mistake Disney made was announcing they will be releasing one new movie every year. I think it's too much.Marvel can release three movies in one year as they started slowly, took their time and have such faith in their brand that people are eager for the next movie. With Star Wars though, it was less than 6 months ago when TLJ came out and it is still a trigger point with some fans. And this is where the "fatigue" is coming in. There's just so much Star Wars that people are unable to stop and take a breath.

6) Expanding the universe in the wrong way.
Rogue One was a great film in my opinion. As it was all new characters, in essentially a prequel to the original trilogy, the stakes felt high. Who would die? Was Jinn Rey's mother? Would Vader appear? These were all questions we had going in. While the movie isn't perfect (few movies are) it was entertaining, but is also a symptom of what is wrong with the current direction the spin-off films are going. Given enough time and they will probably give us a film explaining the origin of Chewie's sash, Lando's cape and the creation of R2-D2. Rather than expanding the universe, giving us new characters, putting the in peril and tying it in nicely overall SW mythology, it seems they are scared to take a chance. Ironically, the movie that did something new and took some chances (TLJ) ended up dividing the fandom even more.

7) The fans.
It was the fan backlash to the prequels that prompted Lucas to sell the franchise to Disney. He is a very sensitive individual and the amount of hate he got hurt him deeply. So he said "f*ck it". And who can blame him. He's the creator and can do whatever the hell he wanted with his franchise. However, some fans complained that he had ruined "their" franchise. Some fans are now complaining that Disney are ruining "their" franchise.

I have noticed that some film fans have two methods of rating a movie: BEST MOIVE EVER and WORST MOVIE EVER. There is no in between or subtle nuances. Also, if a film doesn't deliver what THEY expected, then the movie is awful. rather than appreciating the movie for what IT IS, they complain about what it DIDN'T give them. You can watch a movie, enjoy it for what it is and still recognise it's flaws (see any of my non-spoiler reviews for an example).

I was having a conversation with some friends recently (yes, I do have friends outside of the internet. Don't all faint at once). And I said that Star Trek fans are better than Star Wars fans. Star Trek fans will love the good BUT also embrace the bad entries into the franchise (whether on tv or in film). They will take the p*ss out of the bad acting/writing/action/dialogue etc, but when push comes to shove, they love the franchise, warts and all. Because it is their franchise and sometimes sh*t happens.

It seems, that for some Star Wars fans, they are only happy with the original trilogy. An d that's it. And I think that's sad.

Sorry for waffling on a bit, but that's my, quite in-depth, take on the current state of the Star Wars franchise and (parts) of the fandom. I know that they are people out there who still love the franchise and enjoy the movies.

[Samhain138]

Haha that’s really the funniest part about the fan base.  You can pick a crowd of us and sit us in a room and we will almost all disagree about what’s good in Star Wars and what isn’t.  For me, I typically try to avoid these types of discussions and try to be respectful of others opinions.  It’s not easy though when others are so abrasive about it.  It makes me feel a little disconnected from the fan base sometimes.  It’s probably why I don’t participate in any of the cosplay groups.   But that’s a different discussion entirely.

[tx_tuff]

Solo was released 5 months after The Last Jedi. And over the last few movies Star Wars has been a Christmas/Dec release.

Fighting with the Summer crowd of movies and having them close hurry it no doubt. But they can still release one movie a year, that is not too much. But it needs to be at the end of the year ever year, keep them 12 months apart.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[Taegin Roan]

Lots of interesting opinions on this topic. Some directly linked to the overall topic, some not so much. But good to read nonetheless. Here we go with my opinions.

Once again, as a film lover, and aspiring actor, our opinions match almost perfectly. While it's true that you have a wider knowledge of many aspects of film (in fact probably all aspects) than I do, we both come from the same place. I am first and foremost a fan of film. Second a fan of Star Wars as a whole. And finally as a fan of the movies individually based on the movie itself. Not whether or not it gave me what I wanted. All I really want when I watch a movie is for it to have a good story, decent to great acting, and to tie up loose ends or else leave them open for a sequel. I know people that love the original trilogy, but nothing else is interesting to them, and they don't like any of it. I also know people who enjoy all of SW even though they see the flaws in it. I see the flaws, and look past them. I wish everyone had the same appreciation for film that someone who has actually worked in film, or is trying to work in film does. I'm not hating on anyone or mad at anyone for not liking something that I like, or have different opinions than I do, I just want everyone to be willing to give something a chance, and then after that wait to make a decision. I had to watch Rogue One 3 times before I decided whether I liked it or not. I've done the same thing with other movies.

Anyways, I'm done for now.

[Karmack]

Taegin makes a great point.  I think the key to whether this ends up being a success or failure is primarily bound up in the quality of the media.  If they're going to make movies once a year or twice a year or five times a year, people will watch them - if they're essentially good movies.

I'm not talking about super block busters, but they have to be entertaining, and not preachy or political or to far off into the extremes.

I have long been a Star Wars fan.  Obviously I like it, I hang out here, I write fan fiction.  :-)  Its not just the lightsabers...  But I was deeply disappointed in The Last Jedi.  Not because it was a bad film.  I actually think it was a pretty good film on the face of it.  Sure, it had issues (bombers?  REALLY?) but it was entertaining and fun to watch, and had a pretty cool ending.  Not to mention we got to see Kylo and Rey kick some serious butt!

But it still leaves me very disappointed ... and then I realized why. 

*** TRIGGER WARNING ***

They destroyed all the male heroes. 

Think about it.  Han is dead.  Chewie was totally marginalized with the whole "Porg" thing.  Sorry, he had a great golden brown on that bird.  EAT IT!  Sheesh!   Luke...  Luke was portrayed as a whiny, sniveling, grumpy old man who could only be brought to his senses at the very end by a teen-age girl and a long-dead force ghost.  Worse, he was shown to be a QUITTER. 

Heroes don't quit.

Po?  Mutineer.  Brash.  Brazen.  Not real smart.  A cute puppy the wiser, smarter women in charge keep around for his brawn and his charm.

Finn?  Selfish.  Only cared about Rey and survival.  No commitment.  And no real plan, no idea what he's doing.  A drone.  A follower.  A ... storm trooper.
And his one attempt at a truly noble sacrifice?  Foiled by a woman, who had a better idea and knew better than he did.

There are no strong men in this film.  Only strong women.

And if Star Wars continues with THAT emphasis it will die.  I don't have a problem with strong women.  But I DO have  a problem with weak, girly-men.

[TheDutchman]

This last weekend, my wife and I went to go see Solo.  The theatre was almost full and you could tell that the majority of the audience were ardent SW fans (like myself; my wife...well, let's just say that she's the best since she'll go because I like it  ).  Now admittedly, I went in with lowered expectations given what I'd heard and read.  But then when the film began, I was soon engrossed.  Solo was an enjoyable film, on par with Rogue One.  And certainly better than the abomination that was The Last Jedi.  As has been stated before, I want to echo that Luke's treatment was criminal.  After the promise that Luke represented from my youth, I was exceedingly disappointed by his (lack of) character arc.  What a waste.  And the story...well, let's just say that I find the stories in the Fan Fiction section MUCH more enjoyable and "truer" to the essence of SW.  For as much as I disliked the Prequels, I detest the Sequel installments of the Saga.  So many missed opportunities, cliches, and non-dramatic surprises.  The pathos in the Sequels is weak (if not almost entirely absent altogether).

Sorry for that diatribe.  Will SW fatigue set in?  Only if the upcoming movies follow the same "story" arcs as Ep. 7&8.  It's the peripheral movies that I've found enjoyable and worthy to advertise the SW mantle.  But I've got to say: I'm not a fan of JJ in his capacity as director of Ep.7 and have serious reservations about Ep.9.  Will I go see it?  Most likely.  I sincerely hope that it is a better movie than its two predecessors but I'm not holding to any expectations that it will be.

[Infinit01]

I think having a Star Wars movie each year or every other year would be a great idea.  Marvel releases anywhere from 1 to 4 movies a year and the masses follow suit to go watch them even though most has never cracked opened any comics before the MCU. 

I think the very people who claim that Star Wars fatigue may happen aren't really Star Wars fans to begin with.  In fact, they're probably the ones that flocked to movies like the 50 Shades Trilogy or the Twilight series.  Maybe these people shouldn't go watch future Star Wars installments then, maybe it's just me but I'll sure as heck go out and watch them all until I can no longer do so.

I love that the new series of Star Wars movies are out just pretty disappointed with the Last Jedi like Dutchman mentioned, no story arc for the characters that we've grown up and fell in love with.  I understand it's supposed to be an introduction for the new characters or the "passing of the torch" to the new characters.  I also believe that they could of give the original characters a better story line and honor them with a better exit story than what we were given.  I also think that Episode 7 and 8 were more monologue than action and the tidbits of action left a lot to be desired. 

I do like out things are going for the most part and look forward to more stories for the main story line and the spin offs.