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Author Topic: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?  (Read 447 times)
Darth Knox
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« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2018, 01:39:07 AM »

If you look back at phase 1 and phase 2 of the MCU they had a few missteps. However, you could always tell what the overall plan for the franchise was; you could see the direction the over-arching story was taking.

Unfortunately, with all the DCEU movies, you cannot say the same. And that is a fundamental problem. I think fans will be forgiving of a bad movie or two as long as they can see the general direction of the franchise. At present, it is impossible to say what the overall plan for DCEU is.

With multiple movie being announced and then cancelled, conflicting reports about what movies may or may not be happening, actors leaving (or are they?) the current state of the DCEU is a mess. I am looking forward to Aquaman and will be interested to see Wonder Woman in the 80s, however, I worry for the future of the DCEU. If things continue in this way I can see them just cancelling everything, waiting 5 years and then rebooting the entire thing, which would be a shame as Henry Cavill, Gal Gadot and Jason Momoa are great in their respective roles.
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Taegin Roan
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« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2018, 11:58:18 AM »

I still haven't seen anything be confirmed on this yet. Am I missing something?
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Darth Tepes
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« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2018, 12:14:18 PM »

If you look back at phase 1 and phase 2 of the MCU they had a few missteps. However, you could always tell what the overall plan for the franchise was; you could see the direction the over-arching story was taking.



Agreed.  The End Credit Scene of Iron Man set the goal, The Avengers.  Then Avengers set the next goal, Thanos.  Can not say the same for the dceu
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Darth Knox
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« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2018, 12:36:42 PM »

I still haven't seen anything be confirmed on this yet. Am I missing something?
Cavill leaving is still ambiguous, so we are still speculating.

The official press announcement from WB on this situation was along the lines of "we have not made any decisions about future Superman movies and we love working with Henry Cavill". Not a denial but not an definitive statement that he's staying.

Can not say the same for the dceu
Green Lantern was supposed to be the start of the DCEU but when the movie flopped they changed their mind. They then retroactively said that MoS was the beginning of their cinematic universe, but it was never originally planned that way.

With Aquaman and Shazam finished shooting and due out, and WW 84 currently filming, then a rumoured Flash movie (which apparently will NOT be Flashpoint) and two standalone Joker movies, and maybe a Birds of Prey film too and Geoff Johns apparently writing a Green Lantern Corps movie, the whole thing is an ungodly mess.
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Darth Tepes
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« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2018, 12:45:05 PM »

Cavill leaving is still ambiguous, so we are still speculating.

The official press announcement from WB on this situation was along the lines of "we have not made any decisions about future Superman movies and we love working with Henry Cavill". Not a denial but not an definitive statement that he's staying.
Green Lantern was supposed to be the start of the DCEU but when the movie flopped they changed their mind. They then retroactively said that MoS was the beginning of their cinematic universe, but it was never originally planned that way.

With Aquaman and Shazam finished shooting and due out, and WW 84 currently filming, then a rumoured Flash movie (which apparently will NOT be Flashpoint) and two standalone Joker movies, and maybe a Birds of Prey film too and Geoff Johns apparently writing a Green Lantern Corps movie, the whole thing is an ungodly mess.

I knew about the Standalone Joker films but not the other ones...good grief.    it looks like Shazam and Aquaman are attempting to change tonality within the DCEU.  i'm not 100% sold on Shazam but (even though I still he was miscast) Aquaman looks entertaining.  IMO  The DC stories (at least in the past) were 9 out 0t 10 more epic than Marvel's in the comics.  It's a shame to see them mishandled. 
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Darth Knox
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« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2018, 01:05:48 PM »

IMO  The DC stories (at least in the past) were 9 out 0t 10 more epic than Marvel's in the comics.  It's a shame to see them mishandled. 
If there's one thing that Marvel has done a lot better than DC is taking the essence of great storylines from the comics and converting them into great cinematic experience. It's "based on" not an actual straight forward adaptation. Whereas DC, that have some of the storylines in comic history, have not really taken advantage of that fact.

Shazam is essentially BIG with superpowers. And because of that, Zac Levi is probably the perfect casting (although we shall have to wait and see).

Momoa's Aqauman was one of th few good things about Justice League so it will be good to see him given more screen time. And the film has an amazing cast (WIllem Dafoe, Nicole Kidman, Temura Morrison, Patrick Wilson).

I forgot to mention that there is also talk of a teenage Supergirl movie, which some people are saying is also a reason Cavil may have left (because they want to focus on that movie rather than a MoS sequel).
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Darth Tepes
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« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2018, 01:21:30 PM »

If there's one thing that Marvel has done a lot better than DC is taking the essence of great storylines from the comics and converting them into great cinematic experience. It's "based on" not an actual straight forward adaptation. Whereas DC, that have some of the storylines in comic history, have not really taken advantage of that fact.

Shazam is essentially BIG with superpowers. And because of that, Zac Levi is probably the perfect casting (although we shall have to wait and see).

Momoa's Aqauman was one of th few good things about Justice League so it will be good to see him given more screen time. And the film has an amazing cast (WIllem Dafoe, Nicole Kidman, Temura Morrison, Patrick Wilson).

I forgot to mention that there is also talk of a teenage Supergirl movie, which some people are saying is also a reason Cavil may have left (because they want to focus on that movie rather than a MoS sequel).

Ugh, Like you said..its a massive mess.  I agree on Marvel.  the took the best elements from multiple era's of the comics, sprinkled their own touches here and there and managed to make something both familiar and different.    Also agreed on the stories at their disposal.  the Death of Superman should have com much later with Actual doomsday...not a weird hybrid of Superboy's origin and a LOTR cave troll
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Taegin Roan
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« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2018, 02:04:16 PM »

I don't see the reason for Joker standalone films. For one thing, I've never been a huge Joker fan, but my biggest problem is that you can't have Joker without Batman. Plus now the actor for Joker in the Joker movie is not Leto, so is it even going to be in the DCEU? Personally, I think it is a mistake to make movies about Villains. The majority of the world doesn't care about the villains, they want to see the heroes win. I can understand what they did with Thanos in IW, but even still, that was setting up for A4. I can also understand a Venom movie, because he has always been his own character even if he fights/hates Spider-Man (but they do need to bring Spider-Man and Venom together sometime, maybe against Carnage). But I for the most part, there are very few villains that even come close to needing a standalone film (all my opinion of course). I want the DCEU to be incredible, but they do need to take some time (or have a definite path they are following at the very least).

I don't know, like y'all are saying, it is a bit of a mess. But I really want them to succeed, and I think Aquaman and Shazam have a chance at redeeming the DCEU. I do wonder though (if the rumors about Batfleck and Cavill are more than just rumors) how long it will take for Momoa and Gadot to decide that they are done as well. They all love their characters, but they seem to me like they wont take a ton of stuff like this. Which then, that will be all the good parts about JL gone (I did like Cyborg, but you can't replace Martian Manhunter IMO).

I know this is an extremely unpopular opinion, but I don't dislike Green Lantern. Was it that great, no, but it wasn't that bad either. I would've liked to see a sequel, because Sinestro looked absolutely perfect.
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« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2018, 02:29:43 PM »

I don't see the reason for Joker standalone films. For one thing, I've never been a huge Joker fan, but my biggest problem is that you can't have Joker without Batman. Plus now the actor for Joker in the Joker movie is not Leto, so is it even going to be in the DCEU? Personally, I think it is a mistake to make movies about Villains. The majority of the world doesn't care about the villains, they want to see the heroes win. I can understand what they did with Thanos in IW, but even still, that was setting up for A4. I can also understand a Venom movie, because he has always been his own character even if he fights/hates Spider-Man (but they do need to bring Spider-Man and Venom together sometime, maybe against Carnage). But I for the most part, there are very few villains that even come close to needing a standalone film (all my opinion of course). I want the DCEU to be incredible, but they do need to take some time (or have a definite path they are following at the very least).

I don't know, like y'all are saying, it is a bit of a mess. But I really want them to succeed, and I think Aquaman and Shazam have a chance at redeeming the DCEU. I do wonder though (if the rumors about Batfleck and Cavill are more than just rumors) how long it will take for Momoa and Gadot to decide that they are done as well. They all love their characters, but they seem to me like they wont take a ton of stuff like this. Which then, that will be all the good parts about JL gone (I did like Cyborg, but you can't replace Martian Manhunter IMO).

I know this is an extremely unpopular opinion, but I don't dislike Green Lantern. Was it that great, no, but it wasn't that bad either. I would've liked to see a sequel, because Sinestro looked absolutely perfect.

Depends on the Villian imo.  Vader and Maul mainly...maybe in the same movie Smiley
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Light Side, Dark Side.  I'm the guy with the Saber.
Azure Omen in Adagan Silver
Stunt Initiate in Violet Amethyst
Bellicose in Consular Green
Flamberge SE in Blazing Red
*pending* Emperor's Hand in Guardian Blue

Darth Knox
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« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2018, 02:31:43 PM »

I don't see the reason for Joker standalone films.
Personally, I think it is a mistake to make movies about Villains.
The majority of the world doesn't care about the villains, they want to see the heroes win.
As the old saying goes, a hero is only as good as their villain. Yes, we want to see the heroes win, but a credible villain will push the hero to the limit, making their triumph all the more satisfying when it happens.

With Thanos, we have had 17 movies with the heroes, getting to know them and their personalities, foibles, quirks and passions. That's why they could afford to spend large parts of IW focussing on Thanos; we need to build him up as a credible opposition to all the heroes, as well as justify the super long build up to having him properly appear in a movie.

I agree with Joker though. That's one of the main reasons I don't watch Gotham (a Batman show without Batman).

I love Marvel and the MCU but I want DC to succeed as I love those characters too. Plus, more great comic book movies can only be a good thing.

As I said before, the MCU started at the right time. It was bad timing for DC though as they were still finishing up the Nolan Bat trilogy. However, rather than make a movie, see if it's successful and then decide to make another, they could have (quietly and in the background) planned out their entire slate or phases. Once Nolan had finished the Bat trilogy, they could have announced the first movie in the line-up and THEN, if the movie was good, announce the general plan going forward.

Kevin Feige is a master at working the press to his advantage and engaging with the fandom. Which is part of the reason fans have so much faith in the direction of the MCU; we know it is leading somewhere. They have so much goodwill that even movies that come out are judged to only be a moderate success (like Antman & the Wasp) people are still eager to see the next two, three, four movies that are coming out. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said with the DC movies.
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Taegin Roan
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« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2018, 02:59:23 PM »

Depends on the Villian imo.  Vader and Maul mainly...maybe in the same movie Smiley

Like I said, there are very few villains I think deserve their own movie.

As the old saying goes, a hero is only as good as their villain. Yes, we want to see the heroes win, but a credible villain will push the hero to the limit, making their triumph all the more satisfying when it happens.

With Thanos, we have had 17 movies with the heroes, getting to know them and their personalities, foibles, quirks and passions. That's why they could afford to spend large parts of IW focussing on Thanos; we need to build him up as a credible opposition to all the heroes, as well as justify the super long build up to having him properly appear in a movie.

I agree with Joker though. That's one of the main reasons I don't watch Gotham (a Batman show without Batman).

I love Marvel and the MCU but I want DC to succeed as I love those characters too. Plus, more great comic book movies can only be a good thing.

As I said before, the MCU started at the right time. It was bad timing for DC though as they were still finishing up the Nolan Bat trilogy. However, rather than make a movie, see if it's successful and then decide to make another, they could have (quietly and in the background) planned out their entire slate or phases. Once Nolan had finished the Bat trilogy, they could have announced the first movie in the line-up and THEN, if the movie was good, announce the general plan going forward.

Kevin Feige is a master at working the press to his advantage and engaging with the fandom. Which is part of the reason fans have so much faith in the direction of the MCU; we know it is leading somewhere. They have so much goodwill that even movies that come out are judged to only be a moderate success (like Antman & the Wasp) people are still eager to see the next two, three, four movies that are coming out. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said with the DC movies.

Agree with everything here. I haven't watched Gotham yet for really two reasons. I don't have time, and I've never been a huge Batman fan. The Dark Night Trilogy was (in terms of movies, and especially superhero movies) absolutely amazing, but because it was Batman, I don't care for them that much. I don't deny that they are amazing works of art though.

I know many many people don't care for Zach Snyder, but I think if they had let him do his thing, he could've gotten his version of the DCEU to a point where it was set up well, and was really well done. Might've taken a while, but so did the MCU. It's been in the making for over 10 years now, with (I believe) 19 movies and at least 3 more coming out next year. But they were definitely exactly what people wanted at exactly the right time. Even the X-Men movies are pretty good (though arguably not as good as MCU [IMO]), but again, they used something that people wanted to see (Wolverine) and did them well. DC is just struggling to not be in a hurry, which is a pretty big problem. They haven't had as much time to work, and have been pushing themselves too hard right now. I haven't disliked any of their movies, but WW is the only one that has been absolutely amazing so far.
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« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2018, 08:34:26 PM »

Gotham is actually really great and I wish more people would give it a chance despite the fact it has kid Bruce in it. It's more or less based on the Gotham Central comics. As crazy as it sounds a show about Gotham police efforts and a young Jim Gordon works and the creative ways they introduce and form the origins of villains is not only interesting but humanizes them in a compelling way but doesn't glorify their actions.

I've really enjoyed it.
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« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2018, 01:10:06 AM »

Gotham started out slow but it is getting better and it's entertaining, which is why you watch anything.

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Darth Tepes
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« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2018, 04:44:53 AM »

I've given Gotham multiple tries... just can't get into. 
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Light Side, Dark Side.  I'm the guy with the Saber.
Azure Omen in Adagan Silver
Stunt Initiate in Violet Amethyst
Bellicose in Consular Green
Flamberge SE in Blazing Red
*pending* Emperor's Hand in Guardian Blue

Infinit01
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« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2018, 04:56:51 AM »

I've given Gotham multiple tries... just can't get into. 

Same here. Iíve tried time and time again but Iím just not interested in it
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