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Author Topic: Staff Rookie  (Read 4533 times)
HanSolo Voltron
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« on: October 17, 2019, 01:11:43 AM »

Hey all,
So I'm strongly considering going with a staff for my next saber.  I was originally going with Sentinel v5 LEs until I saw the Fallen LEs.  I plan on getting the quick release coupler with it as well so I can dual wield twin sabers too.  I have literally zero experience with a staff and recall reading a post or two discussing specs like blade length based on height.  As such, and at the risk of lobbing up easy That's What She Said bait, I am looking for any suggestions from those with some experience with staffs.

1.  My main goal is not to drop/throw/maul them while having them in a staff.  I am 5'7" so can I use the standard 36" blade with 2 Fallen hilts and not constantly strike the ground with the blades?
2.  Should I put sound in both sabers?  I'm leaning towards sound in both if for no other reason than I would also like to dual wield but Obsidian v4 in both will add up cost.  Has anyone tried v4 in one saber and basic obsidian in the other?
3.  Anything else a staff rookie should know about before making a purchase?  I'm not looking to come off as Ray Park with it, just to enjoy it and not look like a complete idiot while using it.

Thanks!
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Sabers: Scorpion Tri-AB, lite.  Chosen One SE Tri-BR, v4 sound.  Dark Initiate LE V5, Emerald w v4 sound.  Apprentice v5 LE staff SRD, v4 sound.  Spectre, Diamond.  Manticore PO, v4 sound.  Archon v2.1, Emerald w v4 sound.
Wish list: 1.  Graflex CE  2.  Emperor's Hand 3. Fallen of some kind (undecided).  4.  Princess of some kind (undecided)

Sakura No Kaze
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« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2019, 02:43:48 AM »

Welcome to the party.

Some answers and opinions for you:

1) Probably not. Each Fallen is 16" long, Quick Release Coupler is 2" long, so that's 34" right there. Then add blades. (36*2)=72" + 34" = 106" or 8'10". I'm betting you're going to hit the ground a lot if you try non-horizontal spins. I'm going to recommend 28" blades, which would give you (28*2)=56"+34"=90" or 7'6". Still taller than you, but much more manageable.

2) This is a personal preference question, so you're going to get my personal preference. It is only my opinion, not meant to be taken as any kind of higher authority (except I own 11 Ultrasabers). Sound = YES. However, I have never liked the Obsidian Lite only for the reasons that you cannot control the volume. It has one setting, and that setting is LOUD. If you're going to get sound in both, and end up going with Obsidian v4 in one, and Obsidian Lite in the other, you're going to want to mute the sound on the v4 when you have it together as a double bladed saber. They are sensitive enough that a hit on the muted end will still trigger the sound on the Obsidian Lite end. Personally I would get Obsidian v4 in both, although I know that is a significant cost increase.

3) Yes. Visit the Saber Artistry sub-forum (if you haven't already). http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?board=38.0 It has a good number of good videos and explanations on how to not look like a complete idiot. And the people there are very helpful if you have any questions.

Other advice: When practicing with it as a staff, I suggest doing so outdoors so as to avoid damaging any ceiling fans, ceilings, walls, floors, TV's, lamps, etc. I speak from experience on this one.

One thing you may try in order to figure out a good blade length is to go to the local hardware store (Home Depot, Lowes, whatever you have nearby) and getting a couple of long PVC pipes and a slide on connector. You can put them together, mark where the hilt ends and the blade begins with a marker or tape, and see how it feels with whatever length you have. If it's too long, cut a couple of inches off each end and try again. Keep going until you find a good length. You're still going to want one taller than you, and I'm guessing that 28" blades will work best for you, but you can use that method if you really want to feel what that length is like and go from there.

Remember, the forum loves pictures, reviews, and unboxing videos. Especially unboxing videos and the reaction of people when they buy their first saber, it arrives and they unbox it, and they then turn it on... those are priceless (especially when they first turn it on).

I'm sure others will mention things I've forgotten, but this should be a good start. May the Dark Side be with you.
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Therion Jinn
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« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2019, 02:48:23 AM »

I'm 5' 11" and can tell you that anything longer than 32s in a staff would be problematic.
I go with 28s in all of my staff setups
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Samhain138
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« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2019, 05:09:57 AM »

I'd say for a saber staff a little taller than you are is fine.  I use 30 inch blades in my staff and I'm around 6 ft and it handles perfectly.  It's almost exactly my height.  The Fallen is a big hilt for a staff, you may have a hard time getting it down to your height without it looking like it has under sized blades.

I personally use V4 sound in both sabers, you have to consider battery setups and whether one has buck puck or not.  Matching setups usually means they run around the same life time and you won't have one getting dim or something.

Someone already linked you over to the artistry section, so there's all kinds of stuff there to learn.
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Darth Logos
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« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2019, 02:25:25 PM »

I'm 5' 11" and can tell you that anything longer than 32s in a staff would be problematic.
I go with 28s in all of my staff setups
Totally agree. I'm 6'1" and I rock 32s in my staffs. IMO, the initiate length sabers (9") work the best. So maths time:

2(9") + 1.5" {coupler} + 2(32") - 2(2") {blade socket} = 79.5" = 6' 7.5"

For reference, I can easily spin this vertically under an 8' ceiling and not hit ceiling or floor.


36" blades are just way too long for a staff.....unless you're like 8' tall.

The Fallen is an absolute beast as far as length. If I'm not mistaken, it is now the longest saber in the line up. Considering this coupled with your height, I would recommend going with 24s.
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Sig by For Tyeth
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Arsenal: (* w/ sound)
Scorpion*(BR)  Emerald Mantis CE* Chosen One*(BR)  Shock LE*(FO)  Archon V2.1*(CG)  Dk Prophecy(BR){Thanks Qui-Lar}  Menace CE staff*(BH) Flamberge CE*(BR)  Initiate LE V2(BR)
Dk Initiate V3(CG)  Manticore CE*(SY)  Dominix LE V3(AB)  Bellicose*(GB)  Dk Arbiter*(VA)  Dominix V4(BR)  Emperor's Hand*(DVA)  Aeon V4(GB)  Dk Initiate V4 (HP)  Project:BOOYA!

Samhain138
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« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2019, 04:19:15 PM »

A 16 inch fallen with 24 inch blades?  I think those are going to be some odd looking proportions on that staff.
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Darth Logos
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« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2019, 04:46:22 PM »

A 16 inch fallen with 24 inch blades?  I think those are going to be some odd looking proportions on that staff.
C'est la vie. He's only 5'7". Might be able to push to 28s, but this thing is gonna be hella long.
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Sig by For Tyeth
...the Force shall set me free.

Arsenal: (* w/ sound)
Scorpion*(BR)  Emerald Mantis CE* Chosen One*(BR)  Shock LE*(FO)  Archon V2.1*(CG)  Dk Prophecy(BR){Thanks Qui-Lar}  Menace CE staff*(BH) Flamberge CE*(BR)  Initiate LE V2(BR)
Dk Initiate V3(CG)  Manticore CE*(SY)  Dominix LE V3(AB)  Bellicose*(GB)  Dk Arbiter*(VA)  Dominix V4(BR)  Emperor's Hand*(DVA)  Aeon V4(GB)  Dk Initiate V4 (HP)  Project:BOOYA!

Karmack
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« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2019, 05:06:56 PM »

Hey all,
So I'm strongly considering going with a staff for my next saber.  I was originally going with Sentinel v5 LEs until I saw the Fallen LEs.  I plan on getting the quick release coupler with it as well so I can dual wield twin sabers too.  I have literally zero experience with a staff and recall reading a post or two discussing specs like blade length based on height.  As such, and at the risk of lobbing up easy That's What She Said bait, I am looking for any suggestions from those with some experience with staffs.

1.  My main goal is not to drop/throw/maul them while having them in a staff.  I am 5'7" so can I use the standard 36" blade with 2 Fallen hilts and not constantly strike the ground with the blades?
2.  Should I put sound in both sabers?  I'm leaning towards sound in both if for no other reason than I would also like to dual wield but Obsidian v4 in both will add up cost.  Has anyone tried v4 in one saber and basic obsidian in the other?
3.  Anything else a staff rookie should know about before making a purchase?  I'm not looking to come off as Ray Park with it, just to enjoy it and not look like a complete idiot while using it.

Thanks!

I think most of the points have been hit, but I wanted to echo some of the others:  My staff is two Initiate V3s with a QD coupler (usually).  I use 32" blades in them.  I am 6'4" tall and I have no issues with clearance.   My original staff was a pair of dominix V3s (dark Aeons), which are a couple of inches longer each than my current Initiate V3s, with a flush coupler (the QD didn't exist back then) and 24" blades.  I found the 24" blades to be just a bit to short, especially if you are going to disconnect and dual wield.  For that, the 32" blades (or maybe 28" if you want to get custom length) would be the best choice.

Sound:   My current hilt is actually a stunt, because I use it for actual, active dueling and honestly I simply could not afford sound when I purchased it.   :-)   But my original staff had sound in only one hilt.  Again, as a cost saving measure.    And I always kind of regretted it.  It worked fine as a staff, but the clash wasn't reactive to the off side and somehow having a pair of sounds seems more authentic.

I would compare the cost, if you're going to sound both, and I think you'll find the difference in cost isn't as much as you might think.   To be honest, if you're looking at a tighter budget, I'd shift back to using Sentinel V5s.  They're about half the base cost of The Fallen, and they come with things like the AV switches stock, which save you some $$$.   And honestly, a pair of V5s, Sentinel or Apprentice, make a nice looking staff.  Especially if you go with the LE model.

My opinion, anyway.   :-)   And if you're really worried about length, the Apprentice V5 LEs come with stock 24" blades.  With a coupler, that makes a nice staff.   The Apprentice is also a very comfortable wield, both as a staff and individually.
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« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2019, 05:40:04 PM »

I forgot to talk about sound.

My go-to for cons is Project:BOOYA! (Shown in sig)

It is 2 Sentinels w/ QC coupler. I have V4 sound in both, because even though 1 board is loud enough, 2 give an individual blade sound for each end of the staff.
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Sig by For Tyeth
...the Force shall set me free.

Arsenal: (* w/ sound)
Scorpion*(BR)  Emerald Mantis CE* Chosen One*(BR)  Shock LE*(FO)  Archon V2.1*(CG)  Dk Prophecy(BR){Thanks Qui-Lar}  Menace CE staff*(BH) Flamberge CE*(BR)  Initiate LE V2(BR)
Dk Initiate V3(CG)  Manticore CE*(SY)  Dominix LE V3(AB)  Bellicose*(GB)  Dk Arbiter*(VA)  Dominix V4(BR)  Emperor's Hand*(DVA)  Aeon V4(GB)  Dk Initiate V4 (HP)  Project:BOOYA!

chalion
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« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2019, 08:54:57 PM »

I forgot to talk about sound.

My go-to for cons is Project:BOOYA! (Shown in sig)

It is 2 Sentinels w/ QC coupler. I have V4 sound in both, because even though 1 board is loud enough, 2 give an individual blade sound for each end of the staff.

You could always get a Dominicide and buy the Fallen emitters when they finally go up for sale in the parts section.
(78.25″ Tip to tip with two 32″ round tip blade equipped). the Fallen emitters are 3 inches deep (not counting the shroud) so lopping 2-4 inches off a 32 inch blade will make it manageable. This is actually what I plan to do, i'm just waiting for UltraSabers to release the emitters for seperate sale.

Just sayin.
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Karmack
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« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2019, 10:33:10 PM »

You could always get a Dominicide and buy the Fallen emitters when they finally go up for sale in the parts section.
(78.25″ Tip to tip with two 32″ round tip blade equipped). the Fallen emitters are 3 inches deep (not counting the shroud) so lopping 2-4 inches off a 32 inch blade will make it manageable. This is actually what I plan to do, i'm just waiting for UltraSabers to release the emitters for seperate sale.

Just sayin.

Won't work if you want to de-couple the hilts and dual-wield.   :-)
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chalion
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« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2019, 12:17:15 AM »

Won't work if you want to de-couple the hilts and dual-wield.   :-)

Yeah, true. I'm just...............unsatisfied with all the couplers. The US quick disconnect coupler adds 2 inches to the staff and you really need to watch how to split them or you may pinch fingers. The flush couplers are smaller, but don't detach easily. It's just easier to carry 2 smaller hilts separately (3 hilts total).

I've looked into a bayonet style coupler with rare earth magnets, so a 1/4 turn and pull apart and reverse to attach, but still getting the pinch factor.

'Course, I like my force pike too. Think Temple Guard staff/lightsaber.
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Sakura No Kaze
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« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2019, 04:59:35 AM »

A few more things to add:

1) I did a forum search and found a few more threads (some of which have links to more threads) that may also be helpful regarding blade length, both for double bladed saber and single bladed:
http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=24336.0
http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=4095.0
http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=39882.0
There are more, but those are the first few I found that looked helpful.

2) As I did that search, and as Logos pointed out, I forgot that you lose about 2" of blade length to emitter socket depth. So all of my math was wrong.  On the bright side, that makes the 32" standard length blades a more appealing option.

3) My "standard" double bladed saber is two Dark Apprentice hilts. I have a quick disconnect coupler, but I really prefer just the standard adjustable one. It's a personal preference thing, but the bump of the quick disconnect in the middle of the saber annoys me. I have a slight preference for 32" blades with it, but I've used 36" with little issue. When I'm messing around connecting sabers, I usually just leave the blades that I normally use with them in, almost all of which are 36". So yeah, two DSI's or two Liberators (my normal "other" two pairs) connected with 36" blades is definitely for outside use only.


Or you can be completely silly and take two Fallen hilts, connect them with a Yari extension between them, and put 16" blades on each end... Although now that I think about it, you really could do that, with a quick disconnect coupler between the Yari and one of the Fallen hilts, putting a 32" blade on the end with the Yari/Fallen combination, and a 24" blade on the other end. When disconnected you'd have a Nagamaki length with the Yari/Fallen combo, and a Shoto length with the Fallen/24" blade combo. (Ok, fine, technically the lengths are a bit off to be accurately called either of those, but it's close enough for the general idea/spirit of the weapon.)
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Darth Logos
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« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2019, 02:45:32 PM »

Yeah, true. I'm just...............unsatisfied with all the couplers. The US quick disconnect coupler adds 2 inches to the staff and you really need to watch how to split them or you may pinch fingers. The flush couplers are smaller, but don't detach easily. It's just easier to carry 2 smaller hilts separately (3 hilts total).
I've found the trick to the QC coupler is to break it in. Run it through a few plenty of cycles and the bearings with deburr the edges allowing it to work smoother. I also pop off a Covertec so I always know which way to pull for separation.

Quote
Or you can be completely silly and take two Fallen hilts, connect them with a Yari extension between them, and put 16" blades on each end... Although now that I think about it, you really could do that, with a quick disconnect coupler between the Yari and one of the Fallen hilts, putting a 32" blade on the end with the Yari/Fallen combination, and a 24" blade on the other end. When disconnected you'd have a Nagamaki length with the Yari/Fallen combo, and a Shoto length with the Fallen/24" blade combo. (Ok, fine, technically the lengths are a bit off to be accurately called either of those, but it's close enough for the general idea/spirit of the weapon.)
In reality, I think that Fallens connected by a Yari with 16s would look pretty awesome. It'd just be a double pike instead of a staff.
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Sig by For Tyeth
...the Force shall set me free.

Arsenal: (* w/ sound)
Scorpion*(BR)  Emerald Mantis CE* Chosen One*(BR)  Shock LE*(FO)  Archon V2.1*(CG)  Dk Prophecy(BR){Thanks Qui-Lar}  Menace CE staff*(BH) Flamberge CE*(BR)  Initiate LE V2(BR)
Dk Initiate V3(CG)  Manticore CE*(SY)  Dominix LE V3(AB)  Bellicose*(GB)  Dk Arbiter*(VA)  Dominix V4(BR)  Emperor's Hand*(DVA)  Aeon V4(GB)  Dk Initiate V4 (HP)  Project:BOOYA!

HanSolo Voltron
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« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2019, 07:05:17 PM »

Thank you all for your responses!  I was definitely not expecting so many replies so instead of creating a clunky post with a dozen quotes, I will respond generally.

Blade Length: You have confirmed my suspicions that my height and preferences may not be compatible.  As hilarious as it would be to chase after my neighbors with a staff nearly twice my height, genetics and physics necessitates some concessions on my part.  Samhain brought up an important point in that the sacrifice of blade length for the Fallen hilt may make the staff look awkward.  Since optics of a saber are very important to me, I will likely have to downgrade to the Sentinel or Apprentice as I had originally planned...or buy stilts.  I will likely do as Sakura suggested and go to Lowe's to test things out.  Side bet: How long will it take me to get kicked out for doing my Star Wars Kid impression in the plumbing section?

Sound: It seems like we are all in agreement in our preference for the Obsidian v4.  I am a big fan of being able to change volume, individual sounds, fonts, and even mute at will.  Karmack brought up what I was worried about, that having sound in one saber or different sound in the sabers might make the clashing inconsistent.  This choice will likely be made for me if I go with the shorter hilt because I can funnel money saved into sound and likely FOC.  Probably my favorite part of the fight at the end of TPM was the overwhelming machine gun whirring sound Darth Maul's staff made when he spun it.  I would be a little disappointed if the staff didn't sound like that because I decided to save money. 

Sakura: Thanks again for your detailed initial post.  I have been looking in the artistry section as you recommended.  I will be practicing exclusively outside because I can add wife, 4 yr old, and 9 month old to the list of potential collateral damage.

Thanks again to everyone!  Points for all.
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Sabers: Scorpion Tri-AB, lite.  Chosen One SE Tri-BR, v4 sound.  Dark Initiate LE V5, Emerald w v4 sound.  Apprentice v5 LE staff SRD, v4 sound.  Spectre, Diamond.  Manticore PO, v4 sound.  Archon v2.1, Emerald w v4 sound.
Wish list: 1.  Graflex CE  2.  Emperor's Hand 3. Fallen of some kind (undecided).  4.  Princess of some kind (undecided)

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