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Author Topic: The Balance  (Read 2669 times)
ElvenSkywalker83
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« on: October 20, 2019, 01:54:42 PM »

Just my take on Balance in Star Wars.

I do not believe balance in Star Wars means that there ought to be an equal number of Sith and Jedi. You would not want there to be an equal number of wellness and cancer in your body would you? The Dark Side is the galaxy's cancer, the Sith kill and destroy, they think only about themselves and their power which is why they are doomed to destroy everything and eachother. As Anakin said, the Jedi are selfless. They are protectors and peacekeepers. Their purpose is to serve the Force selflessly, and offer unconditional love to the occupants of the galaxy. Now not to say that Jedi never made mistakes, but the purpose of a Jedi is a selfless one, an honorable one. And the purpose of a Sith is more often a plague upon civilization. Balance is found when the Sith are dead and peace is restored. Which is probably why there will never be indefinite balance within Star Wars. Thanks a lot Lumiya, Caedus, Krayt ect.

What's your outlook on Balance in Star Wars?
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Saso Is-kor
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« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2019, 01:57:53 AM »

Just my take on Balance in Star Wars.

I do not believe balance in Star Wars means that there ought to be an equal number of Sith and Jedi. You would not want there to be an equal number of wellness and cancer in your body would you? The Dark Side is the galaxy's cancer, the Sith kill and destroy, they think only about themselves and their power which is why they are doomed to destroy everything and eachother. As Anakin said, the Jedi are selfless. They are protectors and peacekeepers. Their purpose is to serve the Force selflessly, and offer unconditional love to the occupants of the galaxy. Now not to say that Jedi never made mistakes, but the purpose of a Jedi is a selfless one, an honorable one. And the purpose of a Sith is more often a plague upon civilization. Balance is found when the Sith are dead and peace is restored. Which is probably why there will never be indefinite balance within Star Wars. Thanks a lot Lumiya, Caedus, Krayt ect.

What's your outlook on Balance in Star Wars?

This is almost one of those things where I don't think Lucas ever intended it to make a whole lot of sense, and so trying to pick it apart is difficult at best. We should remember that the whole idea of balance in the Force was an unknown concept in the OT. It was really just a story of a young man dealing with family issues and the classic "take down the evil regime" genre. Only in the prequels did we get balance and the prophecy of the Chosen One and suddenly the actions of Anakin Skywalker took on a mystical side.

On a side note, this is one of the glaring issues with the new trilogy as the Force is clearly portrayed as being out of balance again. If you have a prophecy for thousands and thousands of years that one individual is going to bring balance to the Force, and he does just that, then 30 years later it's out of whack again... it just seems kind of ridiculous.
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Sakura No Kaze
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« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2019, 03:32:30 AM »

Just my take on Balance in Star Wars.

I do not believe balance in Star Wars means that there ought to be an equal number of Sith and Jedi. You would not want there to be an equal number of wellness and cancer in your body would you? The Dark Side is the galaxy's cancer, the Sith kill and destroy, they think only about themselves and their power which is why they are doomed to destroy everything and eachother. As Anakin said, the Jedi are selfless. They are protectors and peacekeepers. Their purpose is to serve the Force selflessly, and offer unconditional love to the occupants of the galaxy. Now not to say that Jedi never made mistakes, but the purpose of a Jedi is a selfless one, an honorable one. And the purpose of a Sith is more often a plague upon civilization. Balance is found when the Sith are dead and peace is restored. Which is probably why there will never be indefinite balance within Star Wars. Thanks a lot Lumiya, Caedus, Krayt ect.

What's your outlook on Balance in Star Wars?


1) Your view of the Sith is too narrow. As an example:  http://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Darth_Vectivus

2) To follow your cancer analogy anyway, is a completely disease free body 300 pounds over weight with 90% clogged arteries in balance? There's no disease, so everything must be fine.

3) While we're on the body analogy, the human body requires a certain amount of acid, bacteria, white blood cells, etc. In all of those cases, and a lot of others I cannot think of at the moment, having too much of any of them is a bad thing. But so is having too little. Heck, dihydrogen monoxide is poisonous in a large enough quantity, yet it's recommended we consume 11.5 to 15.5 cups of it per day.

4) Balance is found when two sides are equal, not when one side is greater than the other. As much as I may not like saying this, a Sith ruled/controlled galaxy would also be out of balance.

On a side note, this is one of the glaring issues with the new trilogy as the Force is clearly portrayed as being out of balance again. If you have a prophecy for thousands and thousands of years that one individual is going to bring balance to the Force, and he does just that, then 30 years later it's out of whack again... it just seems kind of ridiculous.


Then perhaps the they were wrong about who the prophecy is applied to. They found a powerful force sensitive kid and just decided he was the one. Probably would have been a better idea not to let him know that he was the "chosen one." Might have caused his ego to get a touch big. *gasp, shock, amazement* The jedi were wrong about something... (Yeah, I know, the visit to Mortis does really strongly imply that it's supposed to be Anakin, especially when he holds the Son and daughter in balance at the same time.) It is interesting to note that it's also implied that in the thousands of years before Anakin while the thousands of jedi kept the peace, and the two Sith hid, the Force slowly slipped out of balance, and someone had to bring it back.

And besides, bringing something into balance, and keeping it there, are three different things. Yeah, I agree that it's silly to have a prophecy that says "he will bring balance to the force" without a footnote mentioning that it's not going to stay that way for long. Or maybe bits of the prophecy got lost over the years. Or maybe he's supposed to bring it into balance and then his students/kids/etc. are supposed to keep it that way. Or maybe it's just one of those mysteries that's not meant to be analyzed.

I agree that Lucas probably never meant it to be analyzed (or make a lot of sense if it was analyzed), but it's still a fun academic exercise.
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ElvenSkywalker83
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« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2019, 03:22:49 AM »

1) Your view of the Sith is too narrow. As an example:  http://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Darth_Vectivus

2) To follow your cancer analogy anyway, is a completely disease free body 300 pounds over weight with 90% clogged arteries in balance? There's no disease, so everything must be fine.

3) While we're on the body analogy, the human body requires a certain amount of acid, bacteria, white blood cells, etc. In all of those cases, and a lot of others I cannot think of at the moment, having too much of any of them is a bad thing. But so is having too little. Heck, dihydrogen monoxide is poisonous in a large enough quantity, yet it's recommended we consume 11.5 to 15.5 cups of it per day.

4) Balance is found when two sides are equal, not when one side is greater than the other. As much as I may not like saying this, a Sith ruled/controlled galaxy would also be out of balance.


Perhaps I should have been more detailed in my thoughts. I have heard of the Sith you refer too, and I find him to be a very interesting character. However he is a unique being and does not resemble the true form of a Sith Lord, at least not in the early stages of his power.

As for my body analogy, I should have been more detailed. You would not welcome cancer into your body would you? You would not allow your body to succumb to a deadly disease if you had a choice would you? And if you had the medicine to fight the disease you would use it, correct? The Sith are an infectious disease that the Jedi's purpose is to purge/cure. Many Sith can be turned, like Darth Vader, Vestara Khai ect. When Vader and Sidious ruled the galaxy, they ruled through tyranny, fear, slavery. Aliens were subjected to slavery the most, basically, the Empire and its rulers were 'alienists'. People were unhappy, they lived in utter fear and terror while the Jedi were absent and without power. This is not balance, whether there were two Jedi and two Sith. Then again, multiple Jedi survived that Obi-Wan and Yoda were never able to find. The Force is knocked out of balance the most when Sith rise and cause the conflict. Jedi are meant to protect innocents and serve the will of the Force. They are a selfless, compassionate, moral people while a Sith causes the imbalance by being selfish, cruel, greedy, killing and destroying everything in their path for their own gain. They are the source of imbalance, even the Father warned the Son of succumbing to the Dark Side despite the Son being the embodiment of it. Giving into the Dark Side only causes a shift in the Force and unavoidable conflict that destroys whatever balance had been gained.
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Darth Tepes
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« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2019, 12:18:25 PM »

As far as where Anakin is the chosen one....there is no doubt.  Every source including Lucas himself verifies Anakin was the Chosen one.  But you have to remember, the prophecy spoke of The Chosen One destroying the Sith...not Darkness.  Darkness is required for Balance and the Sith tip the scales to far to one side.  With Anakin's rebirth and Palpatine's death..the scales balanced.  Darkness wasn't vanquished...but it was not as strong as it was.  But Snokes Emergence, taking Ben as his apprentice and then the destruction of the few Jedi Luke was training caused the Scales to begin tipping again. 
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Taegin Roan
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« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2019, 01:29:27 AM »

As far as where Anakin is the chosen one....there is no doubt.  Every source including Lucas himself verifies Anakin was the Chosen one.  But you have to remember, the prophecy spoke of The Chosen One destroying the Sith...not Darkness.  Darkness is required for Balance and the Sith tip the scales to far to one side.  With Anakin's rebirth and Palpatine's death..the scales balanced.  Darkness wasn't vanquished...but it was not as strong as it was.  But Snokes Emergence, taking Ben as his apprentice and then the destruction of the few Jedi Luke was training caused the Scales to begin tipping again. 

Good point. As we well know, Kylo is not a Sith, therefore as of right now, Anakin has completed the prophecy. He has destroyed the Sith. When Darth Sidious returns in TROS (and he will return), the Sith will not have been destroyed. The only way then for the prophecy of the Chosen One to be fulfilled is if Anakin returns and defeats Palps for good (meaning we will have to actually see his death). That is not to say there will never be any more darkness, there will be. But it will not be in the form of a Sith ever again. If Palps returns, Ani also has to return. If he doesn't, than the prophecy is false.
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Sakura No Kaze
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« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2019, 04:01:04 AM »

Many Sith can be turned, like Darth Vader, Vestara Khai ect.

I find it interesting how many more jedi turned to the Dark side than the other way around. In numerous cases, the continuation of the Sith, or at least the Dark side was caused by the jedi. In fact, going back into EU lore, it was the jedi who exiled "Dark side practitioners" who then found their way into Sith space (back when the Sith were a species, not just a side on the light/Dark coin). The more I think about it, all of the "imbalance" that the jedi have had to "correct" has ultimately come from their own ranks.

When Vader and Sidious ruled the galaxy, they ruled through tyranny, fear, slavery. Aliens were subjected to slavery the most, basically, the Empire and its rulers were 'alienists'. People were unhappy, they lived in utter fear and terror while the Jedi were absent and without power. This is not balance, whether there were two Jedi and two Sith.

Yes, Palpatine was VERY xenophobic, as was Vader, although Vader at least had how he was treated as a slave as a partial influence. Yes, almost all non-human species had a very rough time of it under Palpatine during the twenty four (24) years of the Empire.

Now, how about all of the species that were enslaved by the Hutts during the over twenty five thousand (25,000+) years prior to that, when the jedi were present and the Sith more or less absent? When entire worlds, entire species, no matter where in the Galaxy they were, served the Hutts as slaves. And the jedi did nothing. In fact, during some of the various wars, they deliberately turned a blind eye to it in order to use hyperspace lanes through Hutt space. At least during Palpatine's Empire, there was no one who could have done anything about it. For over 25,000 years, the slave species had to exist in a galaxy where the might of the jedi order existed....and did nothing for them.

Jedi are meant to protect innocents and serve the will of the Force. They are a selfless, compassionate, moral people while a Sith causes the imbalance by being selfish, cruel, greedy, killing and destroying everything in their path for their own gain.

In my experience, selflessness, compassion, and morality are all both subjective and situational. As are selfishness, cruelty, and greed. "You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Now, summing up everything above so far, with the body/cancer analogy, I did look up the actual prophecy regarding the "Chosen One" and interestingly Lucas also mentions the Sith being similar to a cancer. (Also, it's very difficult to find what the prophecy actually says, as opposed to what everyone thinks it says/means.)
However, the "welcoming cancer into your body" analogy is, I think, false. Cancer, to the best of my knowledge, isn't a communicable disease. It's never brought in from an external source, it's ALWAYS created within the body. So, going back to my point above, it's the jedi that are continually causing the cancer. In many, many cases it's jedi that have broken from/left/been exiled/etc. from the jedi order that become the cancer. In fact, looking at it that way, the jedi, rather than exterminating the cancer from their own ranks, simply send it out into the body (galaxy) to grow and flourish, cause imbalance and suffering. The jedi both cause the cancer, and refuse to ever eliminate it when they have the chance.

My personal view remains that both sides must exist for there to be balance, but I think it could also be argued that the only way to ever have balance is to remove BOTH sides.
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« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2019, 12:04:26 PM »

My headcanon is that when Palpatine was talking about how Plagueous could use the Midichlorians to create life, he was talking about himself.

Plagueous created Palpatine via midichlorian manipulation. The reason he did this ties back into a fake leak from Episode 3, which personally I think makes sense: When a Sith Lord takes an Apprentice, the Master forms a parasitic bond with the Apprentice and feed off their Force potential. Watch Episode III and notice how Sidious is almost salivating about how his new apprentice will be stronger than him or Yoda.

Knowing that a being created by the Midi's would be immensely strong in the Force, Plagueous created Palpatine as a sort of power boost for himself.

Palpatine himself was the cancer, a literal tumor in the Force. The Revenge of the Sith novelization even had a part from Dooku's perspective that looking at Palpatine was like looking into a black hole's event horizon.  This is why the Force was Balanced by Anakin taking out Palpatine. The "Chosen One" was like an antibody made to kill the disease in the Force that was the Emperor.
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Anakin Generation
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« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2019, 10:52:28 AM »

Once a Jedi, always a Jedi. The Sith are Dark Jedi. Chancellor Palpatine spent countless years planning on how to save the Jedi with order 66 by frequency modulating the ionized pulses in the blasters of the highly trained clone troopers that shot at the Jedi. Then Vader and him created an Empire that stopped the clone wars and created an era of moderate peace, albeit a dangerous one. Also you have to understand a Lightsaber is a weapon of the Force. It rarely cuts, it sends certain types of Force Light throughout the body that opens up insane amounts of Force Love, much like a Death Star array doesn't blow up planets but sends them to diffirent times and star systems and universes, considering it is powered by Kyber Crystals that are in essance full of The Forces Love. Even in Rouge One the perceived explosions sent by the Death Star were Force illusions to save those places that were seemingly blown up. "Star Wars" is a historical chronology of real wars that took part in the past, and so there was much violence on both sides, but ultimately the Sith and the Jedi are on the same side, the side of the Force. The Force doesn't hurt people.

Balance to the Force means True Love is achieved. When Luke took that helmet off, and the words "You already have, you were right about me" were spoken a Spiritual Transferrence occurred between Spirirual Father and Spiritual Son. There were no more deep conflicts between those of the Sith who were not fully trained Jedi and those of the Light Side who were fully trained Jedi and other Force users because a Balance in The Force was created, because of Vader's and Palpetine's long Sacrafice to stop the wars, and the victory of the Rebel Alliance played a great saving part as well, and Luke's ultimate victory into connecting with the True Nature of The Force that Palpetine showed him to save Vader. There can only be harmony in True Love. Once the Force was Healed and Balanced, a new era of Love and saving this material existence began, ultimately to end this material world and send everyone back to the Spiritual One.
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Sakura No Kaze
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« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2019, 03:28:04 PM »

No, never mind, I read a different thread and decided that other people are right.
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Riderbathory
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« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2020, 05:12:57 PM »

I don't think the balance is necessarily dictated by the Jedi to Sith ratio. It's the balance between good and evil, which I believe is actually necessary. Having one be greater than the other throws the galaxy out of whack. That's why the Jedi were overthrown. Their presence in the galaxy was too overwhelming, and threw the Force out of balance. That being said, Anakin actually fulfilled the prophecy. I think there is a chosen one with every generation that's meant to make sure the balance of the Force stays in check. They'll dip into the light or dark side based on what is necessary, then return to a middle ground once balance is achieved. That's why I feel the Grey Jedi is the only true path. But that's just my view of it.
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