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Author Topic: help fighting a particular opponent  (Read 871 times)
Frenzi3d_Ronin
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« on: November 19, 2019, 10:36:15 AM »

Hi guys

THeres a particular opponent in my saber dueling club that I'm having trouble up against. None of the tactics i do seem to be working

little bit of stats on him.
hes on the taller side, has longer arms.  Theres a particular move he always gets me with, where he just raises his arm a bit, saber diagonally pointed down, and lunges in. When I asked him why it is that I cant seem to last against him, he says I keep doing the same move, though I think its more than that since other attempts have failed. In addition, in part thanks to his heavy-grade saber, he has great strength.
WHen I duel one-handed, my strikes against him get batted out of the way if he even slightly touches my blade, and he will frequently power through my own blocks. when I go two handed,though, I get quickly beaten by his range.

Can anyone help me out? I really need to find a way to beat him outside of luck.
Thanks, I appreciate it, m8s
(note, no stabs nor strikes above shoulders are allowed at my dueling club, just FYI)
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There's nothing, no opponent I cannot beat (eventually).
light side, dark side, why not relish both?
I relish the fight, never back down, and will win no matter the cost.
In a battle, 1, 2, 3 against me, their sabers against my own, that is my home.
I serve no master or side, for I am my own, but I will always fight the good fight.
I am a ronin, and this is my oath.

Sabers:
Dominix LE v4 stunt GB
Dominix v4 stunt w/windows and A/V switch BR

Cern
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« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2019, 11:20:22 AM »

 "he says I keep doing the same move"

So set him up by starting that move and then switch to something else.
Other option is that if he is bigger than you, try to wear him down. block all his attacks and wait for him to get tired, then strike.
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Frenzi3d_Ronin
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« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2019, 02:12:13 PM »

"he says I keep doing the same move"

So set him up by starting that move and then switch to something else.
Other option is that if he is bigger than you, try to wear him down. block all his attacks and wait for him to get tired, then strike.

I have done that first point before. I have tried tricking him into thinking I'm doing a certain strike, then change strikes. Problem is, this yields mixed results, since even though he is large, he has quick reflexes and seems to read my moves easily. Typically, this just results in both us dying at once.

in response to your other idea, while its a good point, I dont know if itll work. As I said in my first post, he has enough strength (combining his strength, heavier hilt, and heavy-grade blade) to blow past my blocks (not so strong, mid-grade blade)even when I'm two handing.

(I do thank you for your response. Imma try to give you light side points for it.)
Logged

There's nothing, no opponent I cannot beat (eventually).
light side, dark side, why not relish both?
I relish the fight, never back down, and will win no matter the cost.
In a battle, 1, 2, 3 against me, their sabers against my own, that is my home.
I serve no master or side, for I am my own, but I will always fight the good fight.
I am a ronin, and this is my oath.

Sabers:
Dominix LE v4 stunt GB
Dominix v4 stunt w/windows and A/V switch BR

chalion
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« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2019, 02:48:32 PM »

Have you been able to view him in duels with others? Plus, are you allowed to video record your duels, so you can see what moves you do vs his? There's no easy counter to a longer reach, especially if they have good stamina and blade control.

Also, is there anyone in your dueling club you can practice with and learn from (if not from your nemesis) so you can get better? If you have a signature move, you have to unlearn that move because he knows how to counter it.
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Greywolf
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« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2019, 06:46:45 AM »

I'm not sure if you can pull it off (as I don't know if that technique is allowed in your club), but I would try a Krumphau to your opponents blade/hands (to counter the attack) followed with an Oberhau to his upper body.

I think this video might explain it a bit:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UtiffQ67GE" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UtiffQ67GE</a>
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Through Cookies I gain Chocolate.
Through Chocolate I gain Energy.
Through Energy I gain Weight.
Through Weight my pants will burst.
The Force shall free me.

Frenzi3d_Ronin
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« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2019, 04:11:23 PM »

I'm not sure if you can pull it off (as I don't know if that technique is allowed in your club), but I would try a Krumphau to your opponents blade/hands (to counter the attack) followed with an Oberhau to his upper body.

I think this video might explain it a bit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UtiffQ67GE#


This is a good strategy, I can see the validity in this. However, there are two problems with this that I noticed almost right off the bat.
1) in the vid, it appears that the end target is shoulders or high torso. I mentioned in a footnote in my first post that the NO-Zones for my group include everything apove armpits. This includes neck and shoulders, but does not include higher up on the arms. Perhaps I would have to do a modified version of this.
2) Since I only have midgrade blades, and that my nemesis uses a heavy, doing the move where I bang his saber down will risk breaking my own blade (though I do have more than one blade, for this purpose). Additionally, my saber club is very, um, particular in how hard we can strike, and will call me out for hitting too hard. Considering that I would have to put considerable force on my opponents blade for this to work, all things considered, Id say this is a "high-risk, high-reward" approach, if you will.

(I do appreciate these suggestions. Ill at least give them a try).

Logged

There's nothing, no opponent I cannot beat (eventually).
light side, dark side, why not relish both?
I relish the fight, never back down, and will win no matter the cost.
In a battle, 1, 2, 3 against me, their sabers against my own, that is my home.
I serve no master or side, for I am my own, but I will always fight the good fight.
I am a ronin, and this is my oath.

Sabers:
Dominix LE v4 stunt GB
Dominix v4 stunt w/windows and A/V switch BR

Greywolf
Knight Lt. Commander
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Force Alignment: 93
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Grey all the way ;)


« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2019, 12:40:12 AM »

1) in the vid, it appears that the end target is shoulders or high torso. I mentioned in a footnote in my first post that the NO-Zones for my group include everything apove armpits. This includes neck and shoulders, but does not include higher up on the arms. Perhaps I would have to do a modified version of this.
I guessed that much. With my HEMA protection gear hits to shoulder & head are quite valid Wink  
-> We practiced doing a Krumphau on the opponents blade and then immediately go to the head when pulling the sword upwards again.

In general it should be no issue, though, to target lower areas in your counterattack. Perhaps with a second sidestep and pulling your saber horizontal across your opponents stomach? It probably won't hurt much but still counts as a deadly hit, right?


2) Since I only have midgrade blades, and that my nemesis uses a heavy, doing the move where I bang his saber down will risk breaking my own blade (though I do have more than one blade, for this purpose).
Well, if you manage to break your blade (even a mid grade), please tell us -> AFAIK you would be the very first one to pull that off Grin
Yes, the tip of the blade might pop off, but that can be fixed with some gorilla glue. But I'd say you have to abuse your blade very much (e.g. sparring vs metal weapons) to wear it down so much it'll break...


Additionally, my saber club is very, um, particular in how hard we can strike, and will call me out for hitting too hard. Considering that I would have to put considerable force on my opponents blade for this to work, all things considered, Id say this is a "high-risk, high-reward" approach, if you will.
Well, you have to experiment a bit Wink  The main purpose of this is to 'cancel' the threat of you opponent (by preventing him from hitting you & maybe getting him slightly off-balance), so using less force still might provide you an opening for your counter-attack.


Have fun and good luck Grin !
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Cake is a lie. There are only Cookies.
Through Cookies I gain Chocolate.
Through Chocolate I gain Energy.
Through Energy I gain Weight.
Through Weight my pants will burst.
The Force shall free me.

Tai Chi Chuan Wijchen
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« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2019, 06:47:40 AM »

I'm starting to like this discussion, please don't mind me reading along.

Master Greywolf, thank you for sharing that video. It's actually a HEMA-take on a TCC technique I''m exploring.
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Frenzi3d_Ronin
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« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2019, 02:22:53 PM »

I guessed that much. With my HEMA protection gear hits to shoulder & head are quite valid Wink 
-> We practiced doing a Krumphau on the opponents blade and then immediately go to the head when pulling the sword upwards again.

In general it should be no issue, though, to target lower areas in your counterattack. Perhaps with a second sidestep and pulling your saber horizontal across your opponents stomach? It probably won't hurt much but still counts as a deadly hit, right?

Well, if you manage to break your blade (even a mid grade), please tell us -> AFAIK you would be the very first one to pull that off Grin
Yes, the tip of the blade might pop off, but that can be fixed with some gorilla glue. But I'd say you have to abuse your blade very much (e.g. sparring vs metal weapons) to wear it down so much it'll break...

Well, you have to experiment a bit Wink  The main purpose of this is to 'cancel' the threat of you opponent (by preventing him from hitting you & maybe getting him slightly off-balance), so using less force still might provide you an opening for your counter-attack.


Have fun and good luck Grin !

I actually DID manage to break a midgrade blade once, though not against the opponent I've described. I was using a loaned-out saber (I didn't bring my own that day), and somehow managed to snap a 32'' blade when dueling someone. I think Its because I did a hard hit (though not sledgehammer-hard) against the bottom of my opponents own midgrade blade, just right on the border of the PC and metal hilt., it tore the film, bent it back, and cut the remaining good part of the blade to like 24''.

Coming back from that anecdote, I would doubt Id be able to truly "stagger" my nemesis, since, as I said before, he is a physically larger and stronger opponent (at least, compared to me) with good blade control.
To this end, Im not sure about the strike across the chest part, since once he sees what I'm doing, he'll probably apply force back up on my blade, nullifiying my attack and causing me to stab him and die (yes, if we stab, its considered a death on us).
Logged

There's nothing, no opponent I cannot beat (eventually).
light side, dark side, why not relish both?
I relish the fight, never back down, and will win no matter the cost.
In a battle, 1, 2, 3 against me, their sabers against my own, that is my home.
I serve no master or side, for I am my own, but I will always fight the good fight.
I am a ronin, and this is my oath.

Sabers:
Dominix LE v4 stunt GB
Dominix v4 stunt w/windows and A/V switch BR

Sakura No Kaze
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« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2019, 08:54:25 PM »

I actually DID manage to break a midgrade blade once, though not against the opponent I've described. I was using a loaned-out saber (I didn't bring my own that day), and somehow managed to snap a 32'' blade when dueling someone. I think Its because I did a hard hit (though not sledgehammer-hard) against the bottom of my opponents own midgrade blade, just right on the border of the PC and metal hilt., it tore the film, bent it back, and cut the remaining good part of the blade to like 24''.

Breaking a mid-grade blade isn't common, but it's not unheard of either. Usually they crack or over flex, rather than outright break.

Quote
Coming back from that anecdote, I would doubt Id be able to truly "stagger" my nemesis, since, as I said before, he is a physically larger and stronger opponent (at least, compared to me) with good blade control.
To this end, Im not sure about the strike across the chest part, since once he sees what I'm doing, he'll probably apply force back up on my blade, nullifiying my attack and causing me to stab him and die (yes, if we stab, its considered a death on us).

First, you dying if you execute a stab is silly.

Second, get a Heavy Grade blade for your saber, so you're not worried about how hard you hit (within the limits of your club).

Questions:
When he "lunges in", where is his attack landing?
Is he using one or two hands?
What blade lengths are you and he using?
What hilt length are you using?
How much space do you have to work in?
What are the rules on using two sabers?
How low can you strike? Knees?

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Frenzi3d_Ronin
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« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2019, 01:10:58 PM »

Breaking a mid-grade blade isn't common, but it's not unheard of either. Usually they crack or over flex, rather than outright break.

First, you dying if you execute a stab is silly.

Second, get a Heavy Grade blade for your saber, so you're not worried about how hard you hit (within the limits of your club).

Questions:
When he "lunges in", where is his attack landing?
Is he using one or two hands?
What blade lengths are you and he using?
What hilt length are you using?
How much space do you have to work in?
What are the rules on using two sabers?
How low can you strike? Knees?


Sakura No Kaze dying by stabs may sound silly, but considering we don't wear any real protection except gloves (and since apparently someone got broken ribs from a stab), Id say its necessary. Im starting to regret not getting a heavy grade, but at the time I got my sabers, I was trying to focus on improving one-handed dueling first and particular opponents later.
To answer your questions:
-when he "lunges" in, since he's batted my strike out of the way, he often hits my exposed arm. If not, he hits my upper torso.
-when he does these strikes, its with one hand, though he blocks with either two hands (when he's using crossguard saber) or one (when using either standard single or crossguard).
-We use the same blade lengths (36inch). But his reach and hilts (his crossguard is a longer hilt than mine, though his hilt is NOT from ultrasabers) makes the blade lengths not much of a factor.
-my hilt length is 12.375 in (I use a Dominix v4, LE or standard). His are like 13 or 14, depending on which saber hilt.
- we practice on an open field, so I don't think spacing is a real factor.
-We can theoretically use two sabers. However, neither I nor my nemesis use two. This is because my club mandates us to have been trained and approved by officers before we can use 'exotic' forms (saber staffing, two-sabers, crossguard, pike, etc.) beside one or two handed single blade. Neither of us have been approved for two sabers yet, even though he's been at my saber club like a year longer than me.
-we can strike as low as we want except for feet (not legs, just the actual feet) and crotch (self-explanatory as to what lol). additionally, we cannot duck. Like, we can lower our height a tad but we cannot drop to our opponents waist or something like that.
Logged

There's nothing, no opponent I cannot beat (eventually).
light side, dark side, why not relish both?
I relish the fight, never back down, and will win no matter the cost.
In a battle, 1, 2, 3 against me, their sabers against my own, that is my home.
I serve no master or side, for I am my own, but I will always fight the good fight.
I am a ronin, and this is my oath.

Sabers:
Dominix LE v4 stunt GB
Dominix v4 stunt w/windows and A/V switch BR

Makubex
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тнərə ιѕ no darĸ ѕιdə, nor lιgнт ѕιdə.


« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2019, 05:59:41 PM »

Sakura No Kaze dying by stabs may sound silly, but considering we don't wear any real protection except gloves (and since apparently someone got broken ribs from a stab), Id say its necessary. Im starting to regret not getting a heavy grade, but at the time I got my sabers, I was trying to focus on improving one-handed dueling first and particular opponents later.
To answer your questions:
-when he "lunges" in, since he's batted my strike out of the way, he often hits my exposed arm. If not, he hits my upper torso.
-when he does these strikes, its with one hand, though he blocks with either two hands (when he's using crossguard saber) or one (when using either standard single or crossguard).
-We use the same blade lengths (36inch). But his reach and hilts (his crossguard is a longer hilt than mine, though his hilt is NOT from ultrasabers) makes the blade lengths not much of a factor.
-my hilt length is 12.375 in (I use a Dominix v4, LE or standard). His are like 13 or 14, depending on which saber hilt.
- we practice on an open field, so I don't think spacing is a real factor.
-We can theoretically use two sabers. However, neither I nor my nemesis use two. This is because my club mandates us to have been trained and approved by officers before we can use 'exotic' forms (saber staffing, two-sabers, crossguard, pike, etc.) beside one or two handed single blade. Neither of us have been approved for two sabers yet, even though he's been at my saber club like a year longer than me.
-we can strike as low as we want except for feet (not legs, just the actual feet) and crotch (self-explanatory as to what lol). additionally, we cannot duck. Like, we can lower our height a tad but we cannot drop to our opponents waist or something like that.


Sounds like hes using a deflection technique to center his lung strike.... or u always blocking his intial (which Im thinking are his feints ) strikes as hes lunging in?
I actually think I know what hes doing since I think I do the same thing.
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Tai Chi Chuan Wijchen
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« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2019, 03:42:47 AM »

Sounds like hes using a deflection technique to center his lung strike.... or u always blocking his intial (which Im thinking are his feints ) strikes as hes lunging in?
I actually think I know what hes doing since I think I do the same thing.

Are you secretly 'the above mentioned undefeatable menace'?
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> Sentinel v4 staff - GB
> Phantom v4 - BR
> Dark Initiatet v2 - FO
> Free Initiate v2 - CG
> Aeon v3 - GB - Grabbag
> Sentinel v4 w/sound - CG - Mysterybox

Makubex
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« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2019, 04:05:21 PM »

Are you secretly 'the above mentioned undefeatable menace'?

Haha nah its and old trick some people use in fencing and a technique used in Arnis it a way to deflect attacks but using the rebound force to center your strikes.. its used for quick paced movements on attack while defending at the same time... u basically use your opponents force against them. But if your opponent uses harder force angling your weapon at a degree causes a shift which lets u kind of party and slide in for accuracy lunges.
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Makubex
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тнərə ιѕ no darĸ ѕιdə, nor lιgнт ѕιdə.


« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2019, 04:05:53 PM »

Are you secretly 'the above mentioned undefeatable menace'?

But who knows... I wish we had a saber club where I’m from... but I haven’t been able to locate or find any locally
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