Thoughts on The Rise of Skywalker - SPOILERS

[Darth Logos]

I watched a vid last night that revealed some info I found shocking. Namely, the Rian Johnson directed Looper. I LOVED LOOPER. So how could TLJ have gone so wrong? And from what I also heard in this vid, they plan on giving RJ an entire trilogy. I'm scared. Hopefully this idea was contingent on the success of TLJ (and we all know how that turned out.)

I personally thought they did pretty well with the material they were left with after the disaster that was TLJ. Don’t get me wrong, almost anything that is SW I will watch and get some enjoyment out of, but they really pushed it with that one. With TRoS, I feel they really rushed in the first act to set up everything they were going to do in the second and third. I really feel they would have benefited from an Avengers Endgame strategy and given us a three hour movie to give them time and space to tell the story properly.

The only thing I can see wrong with a 3hr SW movie is if it runs like TLJ, aka the most boring car chase in cinema history. I honestly wish that Hollywood would bring back the Intermission. Give patrons a break midway in 3-4hr long movie. Make them epic in both scale and execution. Tell a story worthy of the name Star Wars. Like if they did a KOTOR trilogy that lasted 12-13hrs...

[PsychoSith]

Like if they did a KOTOR trilogy that lasted 12-13hrs...

[Darth Logos]

You're welcome.

[Darth Tepes]

I watched a vid last night that revealed some info I found shocking. Namely, the Rian Johnson directed Looper. I LOVED LOOPER. So how could TLJ have gone so wrong? And from what I also heard in this vid, they plan on giving RJ an entire trilogy. I'm scared. Hopefully this idea was contingent on the success of TLJ (and we all know how that turned out.)

The only thing I can see wrong with a 3hr SW movie is if it runs like TLJ, aka the most boring car chase in cinema history. I honestly wish that Hollywood would bring back the Intermission. Give patrons a break midway in 3-4hr long movie. Make them epic in both scale and execution. Tell a story worthy of the name Star Wars. Like if they did a KOTOR trilogy that lasted 12-13hrs...

Because I enjoyed Looper is why I was initially excited for TLJ, that died quick though after details began coming out.  There is an interview with RJ back when his first film , Brick, was coming out.  In it he states he likes making films that split people and fan bases (paraphrasing).  Which at its core I have no issue with....but (IMO) Star Wars is not the place for that.  When I get home I will find the link to the interview.

I 100% agree on the intermission being brought back.  Everyone is in a hurry to go nowhere and do nothing.

[Darth Logos]

Because I enjoyed Looper is why I was initially excited for TLJ, that died quick though after details began coming out.  There is an interview with RJ back when his first film , Brick, was coming out.  In it he states he likes making films that split people and fan bases (paraphrasing).  Which at its core I have no issue with....but (IMO) Star Wars is not the place for that.  When I get home I will find the link to the interview.

Welcome back. Don't put too much effort into it. I try not to hate people more than is necessary. But I agree, SW is not the fanbase to piss off. Clearly, after the backlash of TLJ, he found out just how "toxic" we were. What I also seem to notice in this current regime is that the muck buckets in charge proclaim to be SW fans for decades, but what it really is is that they only loved the movies, they didn't love Star Wars. One who loved SW would have some semblance of what was done in the books, games, and comics, not just what they knew from the movies and bad kid shows. Like even you with your love of the newer "mystical" aspects, I would trust more to manage a canon because you LOVE Star Wars. I believe you would have spun elements that had greater balance between the old and new. Case in point: my buddy hated the whole rocket trooper bit simply because he's a huge fan of the Battlefront series. Rocket troops aren't new. So the line "They fly now?" infuriated him. And he is one of the most mellow people I think that has ever existed. I don't think I'd ever seen him pissed off. Meanwhile, I hated that scene simply because a caterpillar tread on sand will never be as frictionless as a repulsor field. And don't get me started on the stupid catapult function. But ROTJ had a speeder chase, so TROS had to have a speeder chase. GRRRR

I 100% agree on the intermission being brought back.  Everyone is in a hurry to go nowhere and do nothing.

RIGHT?!?

[Darth Tepes]

Welcome back. Don't put too much effort into it. I try not to hate people more than is necessary. But I agree, SW is not the fanbase to piss off. Clearly, after the backlash of TLJ, he found out just how "toxic" we were. What I also seem to notice in this current regime is that the muck buckets in charge proclaim to be SW fans for decades, but what it really is is that they only loved the movies, they didn't love Star Wars. One who loved SW would have some semblance of what was done in the books, games, and comics, not just what they knew from the movies and bad kid shows. Like even you with your love of the newer "mystical" aspects, I would trust more to manage a canon because you LOVE Star Wars. I believe you would have spun elements that had greater balance between the old and new. Case in point: my buddy hated the whole rocket trooper bit simply because he's a huge fan of the Battlefront series. Rocket troops aren't new. So the line "They fly now?" infuriated him. And he is one of the most mellow people I think that has ever existed. I don't think I'd ever seen him pissed off. Meanwhile, I hated that scene simply because a caterpillar tread on sand will never be as frictionless as a repulsor field. And don't get me started on the stupid catapult function. But ROTJ had a speeder chase, so TROS had to have a speeder chase. GRRRR

RIGHT?!?

Thanks for the vote of confidence      Its what I have mentioned before, we all look at Star Wars differently.   It wasn't nostalgia for the films that kept Star Wars alive between ROTJ and TPM....it was the merchandise, video games and books.   I could and still do Understand disregarding the EU in favor of beginning over...but as usual it was the way it was done.  Mundane retreads of Storylines from the EU, open plots that went nowhere and the biggest issue....making the Expanded Material pivotal to understanding the films.  I keep up with the lore because that is my passion...I love Lore Heavy franchises (Why I love Tolkien above all...even Star Wars).  But not everyone has the time or inclination to do this.  Right now there is a Comic series entitled "The Rise of Kylo Ren".  It is 2 issues in and it begins with right after the destruction of Luke's temple.  We are introduced to 3 other of Luke's students and see a flashback of how Luke and Ben first meet the Knights of Ren...Luke kicks their a**es without breaking a sweat.  ALl this should have been in the films..but now there are going to be whole sections of the fanbase who will never get this info.  It seems there is a slight shift in trying to bring fans back.  The Mandolorian is well received, Revan is canon and Jedi Fallen Order has near perfect reviews.  But we are still at wait and see.
              To be transparent and blunt....I have not seen TROS.  Nor will I until it comes to Redbox.  But I do know the plot and what happened.  I have no doubt the acting is good as well as the set pieces, cinematography, costumes etc.... I'm sure all good.  None of these were ever the issue...Plot was.  I have lurked since I returned from my vacation seeing what others have said.  Work stress (inventory time), lifestyle changes due to a health scare on Christmas eve and other things kept me from umping back in to the convo.  But I think you said something to the effect you struggle now to find a place in the fandom...I too feel the same way. 

[Darth Logos]

Thanks for the vote of confidence      Its what I have mentioned before, we all look at Star Wars differently.   It wasn't nostalgia for the films that kept Star Wars alive between ROTJ and TPM....it was the merchandise, video games and books.   I could and still do Understand disregarding the EU in favor of beginning over...but as usual it was the way it was done.  Mundane retreads of Storylines from the EU, open plots that went nowhere and the biggest issue....making the Expanded Material pivotal to understanding the films.  I keep up with the lore because that is my passion...I love Lore Heavy franchises (Why I love Tolkien above all...even Star Wars).  But not everyone has the time or inclination to do this.  Right now there is a Comic series entitled "The Rise of Kylo Ren".  It is 2 issues in and it begins with right after the destruction of Luke's temple.  We are introduced to 3 other of Luke's students and see a flashback of how Luke and Ben first meet the Knights of Ren...Luke kicks their a**es without breaking a sweat.  ALl this should have been in the films..but now there are going to be whole sections of the fanbase who will never get this info.  It seems there is a slight shift in trying to bring fans back.  The Mandolorian is well received, Revan is canon and Jedi Fallen Order has near perfect reviews.  But we are still at wait and see.
              To be transparent and blunt....I have not seen TROS.  Nor will I until it comes to Redbox.  But I do know the plot and what happened.  I have no doubt the acting is good as well as the set pieces, cinematography, costumes etc.... I'm sure all good.  None of these were ever the issue...Plot was.  I have lurked since I returned from my vacation seeing what others have said.  Work stress (inventory time), lifestyle changes due to a health scare on Christmas eve and other things kept me from umping back in to the convo.  But I think you said something to the effect you struggle now to find a place in the fandom...I too feel the same way. 

I know exactly where my place is: pissed off G1. I'm actually in George's camp, they way the "new" ideas are spun is like the creators are scared to use imagination. And I also agree: though I love an interconnected franchise, it was a blatant money grab for them to incorporate so much of the movies that required understanding from other sources. It was something that they did very successfully in the MCU. Despite having numerous tie-ins to various movies, most of them were made as after thoughts for movies that were later in release, or were in simultaneous production, and would answer questions soon. Like how dumb would it have been to have Robert Redford show up in Endgame, had we not already knew the character from Winter Soldier? But for the casual SW fan, they still don't know who tf the Knights of Ren are beyond an emo metal boy band. Or the bit with the Sith supporters...or whatever the hell the bounty hunter dude was. (That was a bit out in left field.) Plus, where the hell did 3PO learn how to translate an ancient, yet mysteriously "forbidden", dead language? And wtf is up with Han's dice chain? Too many assumptions were made that everybody that falls under the ungodly large banner of "Star Wars fan" is going to go out and read all the books and comics, play all the games, and watch all the TV. The movies should have been able to stand alone without any of the extras. The extras should have been the fluff on top of the EU (not to be confuced with Legends EU). And we already know my stance on how sickeningly nostalgic these movies are. Not everyone studied them like the die-hards did. The casual fan isn't going to get 5, let alone the 50 other throwbacks that were thrown into each film.

[ed_ification]

In it he states he likes making films that split people and fan bases (paraphrasing).  Which at its core I have no issue with....but (IMO) Star Wars is not the place for that.  When I get home I will find the link to the interview.

Um...  I mean, at the time, and without knowing what comes later...  Empire Strikes Back?  I mean, I imagine that the reveal was pretty dang shocking at the time.

Fans complained that TFA was too much nostalgia and fan-service.

Then people complained that TLJ was too different and didn't meet their expectations.

I'm not saying TROS was a good film - I don't think it was.  But TLJ challenging expectations isn't a bad thing, and I didn't think that TFA moving past the problems of the prequels (being REALLY wooden). 

However, the "limitations" on a multi-BILLION dollar company with the backing of ILM are comparatively small, and the excuses from the filmmakers come off as really weak for that.  This isn't Lucas having to forge an insanely risky path to make ANH.  Disney has SCADS of freaking money AND an engaged fanbase to throw at a technical problem.   I'm not as negative as Logos is on the state of things in general, and I remain positive about the future of things, but I agree with his point this film seeming to exist for merch, and just not being up to potential.

I thought the same about Infinity War - it was made for spectacle, and didn't give good character moments.

I wanted/expected better.  People had the talent to execute well, but failed to do so.

[Darth Tepes]

Um...  I mean, at the time, and without knowing what comes later...  Empire Strikes Back?  I mean, I imagine that the reveal was pretty dang shocking at the time.

Fans complained that TFA was too much nostalgia and fan-service.

Then people complained that TLJ was too different and didn't meet their expectations.

I'm not saying TROS was a good film - I don't think it was.  But TLJ challenging expectations isn't a bad thing, and I didn't think that TFA moving past the problems of the prequels (being REALLY wooden). 

Context.    ESB was only the second Star Wars film and the fan base was still malleable.  While I wasn't alive to see it I have quite a number friends who were:  Shock, Surprise, Disbelief (in as much that Vader was lying)...these were the common feelings.  But it inspired discussion...not a Split as the new trilogy has done.  Main reason being now there wasn't just a couple of years of expectations...but over 3 decades worth.  Challenging expectations isn't a bad thing....but thats not what Rian did.  He took a crap on peoples expectations.  Again...Star Wars isn't the place for that.


 

Fans complained that TFA was too much nostalgia and fan-service.

Then people complained that TLJ was too different and didn't meet their expectations.
 

The mistake here is assuming the same people made those complaints....they didn't.   

[Old Republic]

On a video I was watching... I saw a gentleman wearing a t-shirt that said "I was there from the start"  and it had the release date for a new hope.  Has anyone ever seen this shirt?  If so... where can I find it?

[Infinit01]

You mean like this?

https://www.etsy.com/listing/255408453/there-at-the-start-star-wars-themed-t?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_us_d-clothing-unisex_adult_clothing-tops_and_tees-tshirts&utm_custom1=499dab88-7eab-4c7a-a97e-0961357613d4&utm_content=go_270946835_40504901709_187725188852_aud-569030202708:pla-285350032777_c__255408453&gclid=Cj0KCQiAvJXxBRCeARIsAMSkAprPKngEMkaa5DqA9eZXviFDbgKkB4baOFLdTwF73pymuhEQ2ULxAYMaAo2FEALw_wcB

[Darth Logos]

Um...  I mean, at the time, and without knowing what comes later...  Empire Strikes Back?  I mean, I imagine that the reveal was pretty dang shocking at the time.

I'm not seeing your point.

Fans complained that TFA was too much nostalgia and fan-service.

It was. A touch of nostalgia is a fine, but that was like dumping a pound of sugar in the Kool-Aid. It all ate up too much time, leaving very little to establish characters and plot. What we get were cardboard archetypes and plot so thin it was on par with that of a 12yo's fan-fic.

Then people complained that TLJ was too different and didn't meet their expectations.

Too different as in.....garbage? Quite. Even the retro-actor thought his character was lame and poorly written.

Also this. (some language)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXNc-5X6xpw&amp;t=15s" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXNc-5X6xpw&amp;t=15s</a>

I'm not saying TROS was a good film - I don't think it was.  But TLJ challenging expectations isn't a bad thing, and I didn't think that TFA moving past the problems of the prequels (being REALLY wooden). 

For a massive change of pace, I was actually entertained by my second viewing. I have similar feelings when watching action movies; the plots aren't always great, but for the most part I'm watching to have fun.

I'm not as negative as Logos is on the state of things in general, and I remain positive about the future of things, but I agree with his point this film seeming to exist for merch, and just not being up to potential.

The current state of things is bad, but could be worse. Mando has reunited a good chunk of the fandom, in such a way that I do have hope for the future. I get the feeling that they were so eager to move to other aspects of the SW history (say KOTOR ) that they rushed through the sequels just to get them over with. My issue with this is that it didn't need to be told. ROTJ could have been a the nice neat ending of the Saga......as it had been for decades. There were "legends" about what took place after, but as with Solo and R1, they were stories that really didn't need to be told because we already knew the outcome. One could say the same thing about the prequels, "We already knew Anakin would turn into Darth Vader." True, but there was a lot more explanation of events. In actuality, both the prequel and original trilogies have stories that could stand on their own. The sequels however has to stand on both. If you didn't know the first 6 movies, you'd be totally lost trying to watch the sequels. That's speaks volumes.

I thought the same about Infinity War - it was made for spectacle, and didn't give good character moments.

I wanted/expected better.  People had the talent to execute well, but failed to do so.

Technically, Infinity War was only half a movie.

Context.    ESB was only the second Star Wars film and the fan base was still malleable.  While I wasn't alive to see it I have quite a number friends who were:  Shock, Surprise, Disbelief (in as much that Vader was lying)...these were the common feelings.  But it inspired discussion...not a Split as the new trilogy has done.  Main reason being now there wasn't just a couple of years of expectations...but over 3 decades worth.  Challenging expectations isn't a bad thing....but thats not what Rian did.  He took a crap on peoples expectations.  Again...Star Wars isn't the place for that.

Yeah that. If I remember the story correctly, the original script had that Obi Wan killed Anakin. What is known as the real story was done in post, and known only to a select handful including George and James. So even the main cast was shocked and awed by this news at the premier.

      Can't agree with this more. And then he has the audacity to call us whiny man-babies because we thought his movie was crap. This movie falls under both SISO and the 7P Theorem.

But then, my expectations were utterly crapped on when the OCEU was decimated. I was excited about new movies, then found out no Yuuzhan Vong, no Heir to the Empire, no Darth Caedus v. Jaina Solo. Just a Mary-Sue v. Whiny emo.

The mistake here is assuming the same people made those complaints....they didn't.   

Which people and what complaints are you referring to?

[Lord Vaalic]

I will say that I am old fart.. I saw the original SW ANH in the theater in '77. I am a life long hardcore fan of Star Wars. I liked the prequels... so flame me if you want.

I HATED TLJ... HATED IT with a deep passion of a thousand white hot suns. Its the only one I only saw once in the theater, and that includes the release of the animated Clone Wars movie in theaters before the series started on TV. I wont get into the details, they have been debated enough in other threads enough already, Ill just say 8 movies into a 9 movie series is not the time to "change things up"

I have seen TROS 4 times now, and I enjoy it more each time I see it. It  has some issues yes. But they had to basically pretend TLJ didn't happen and fit two movies worth of plot into one movie. I actually went into it expecting to dislike or hate it, but was pleasantly surprised. I wish there would have been a much longer battle with Palpatine, but I can live with it.

[Darth Logos]

I will say that I am old fart.. I saw the original SW ANH in the theater in '77. I am a life long hardcore fan of Star Wars. I liked the prequels... so flame me if you want.

I HATED TLJ... HATED IT with a deep passion of a thousand white hot suns. Its the only one I only saw once in the theater, and that includes the release of the animated Clone Wars movie in theaters before the series started on TV. I wont get into the details, they have been debated enough in other threads enough already, Ill just say 8 movies into a 9 movie series is not the time to "change things up"

I have seen TROS 4 times now, and I enjoy it more each time I see it. It  has some issues yes. But they had to basically pretend TLJ didn't happen and fit two movies worth of plot into one movie. I actually went into it expecting to dislike or hate it, but was pleasantly surprised. I wish there would have been a much longer battle with Palpatine, but I can live with it.

They can't pretend that wet fart of a movie didn't happen because the whole bit with Luke played off of it.

[Darth Tepes]

Which people and what complaints are you referring to?

Those that disliked TFA because it was too much like the Originals and those that disliked TLJ because it was too different.  These are used to attempt to show Star Wars fans as fickle and not knowing what they want.  The assumption being it was the same people saying both.