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Author Topic: Thoughts on The Rise of Skywalker - SPOILERS  (Read 35168 times)
neocaster
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« Reply #120 on: January 20, 2020, 10:49:19 PM »

I liked TLJ better. ROS was superbly shot, acted, directed. The combat sequences were brutal. The cast came together exactly as I would have hoped for making their third film together.

Some (major) sticking points with me. All just a matter of preference:
1. I really liked the idea that Rey was nobody special.
2. I would have liked a lot more dirt/explanation of Palpatine’s whereabouts/story in the gap between ROTJ and this final reveal. It would be a tremendous Star Wars Story, and one I’d get in line to see.

The epilogue gave it an honest feeling that a saga was ending in some ways, but that the future of Skywalker had plenty of story left in it.

With Rogue One proving that there are some fantastic stories to tell besides the Skywalker saga, they can take us about anywhere from here.

Roads? Where we’re going, we don’t need roads.


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Taegin Roan
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« Reply #121 on: January 21, 2020, 02:43:55 AM »

1. I really liked the idea that Rey was nobody special.

I've seen this quite a bit, and while I personally don't agree, I understand why so many would think this way, and will never bash anyone for it. However, the biggest reason I don't (besides the fact that she is mega powerful), is that between TFA and TLJ, Rey had nothing that was genuinely making her struggle and grow. Abrams started to set something up with her family in TFA, but Johnson threw that away. JJ had to somehow give her an obstacle worthy of her power, and so he went back to Family. Literally the only thing at that point that could have made her think twice was finding out that she still had family, and a family that wanted to be with her at that. In that moment she didn't care if her grandfather was the worst, most evil person in the galaxy, she was excited for a brief moment to have a grandpa. That allowed her to struggle (a little bit) for almost the first time in the entire trilogy. I would have preferred her to be a Skywalker by blood, but the more I think on it, the more I see how after TLJ, this was really the only thing left that they could have done.

I do agree that (as much as I hate saying it) Chewie should've died, as that would have provided an even greater struggle at the end, but that is whatever.
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superpetros
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« Reply #122 on: January 21, 2020, 10:17:37 AM »

 I personnaly too would have prefered Rey to still be nobody but i agree it's a very personnal feeling about how you see the world, some philosophical opinions or whatever.

Concerning Chewie, at first i too thought he should have stay dead. But i think the real problem (which is the major issue of the film for me) is rythm. We don't have time to not really "mourn" him, but at least to realize that he is gone, that he is already back. Different choices in editing might probably have made his "death" more impactfull i believe.
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« Reply #123 on: January 21, 2020, 06:08:48 PM »

Those that disliked TFA because it was too much like the Originals and those that disliked TLJ because it was too different.  These are used to attempt to show Star Wars fans as fickle and not knowing what they want.  The assumption being it was the same people saying both.   
And that's what they get for ASSuming.

I hated TFA simply because it was weak. And I was consistent when I hated TLJ. My inconsistency came when I was actually entertained by my second viewing of TROS.

I liked TLJ better. ROS was superbly shot, acted, directed. The combat sequences were brutal. The cast came together exactly as I would have hoped for making their third film together.

Some (major) sticking points with me. All just a matter of preference:
1. I really liked the idea that Rey was nobody special.
2. I would have liked a lot more dirt/explanation of Palpatine’s whereabouts/story in the gap between ROTJ and this final reveal. It would be a tremendous Star Wars Story, and one I’d get in line to see.

The epilogue gave it an honest feeling that a saga was ending in some ways, but that the future of Skywalker had plenty of story left in it.

With Rogue One proving that there are some fantastic stories to tell besides the Skywalker saga, they can take us about anywhere from here.
1) Genetics prove nothing. Otherwise, why don't we ever hear about more siblings in the Jedi Order? Or more so, why aren't there Jedi families? And as I said earlier, in Darth Plagueis, Palpatine did not come from Force sensitive parents. But, fat chance Jar Jar would have known that when he wrote TROS. Rey is a lame Mary Sue. Plain and simple. But I won't disagree that there is a powerful theme behind this notion: one doesn't have to be special in order to do great things; that nobility is born in the heart, not the genetics of the bloodline. I believe that the idiot idea of genetic legacy is the single greatest #$%& up in human history.

2) In keeping with the traditions of the 2nd Great Purge, the Disney canon ends up causing more questions to be asked than it answers because you have a bunch of nostalgic chuckle-heads writing the scripts.

I've seen this quite a bit, and while I personally don't agree, I understand why so many would think this way, and will never bash anyone for it. However, the biggest reason I don't (besides the fact that she is mega powerful), is that between TFA and TLJ, Rey had nothing that was genuinely making her struggle and grow. Abrams started to set something up with her family in TFA, but Johnson threw that away. JJ had to somehow give her an obstacle worthy of her power, and so he went back to Family. Literally the only thing at that point that could have made her think twice was finding out that she still had family, and a family that wanted to be with her at that. In that moment she didn't care if her grandfather was the worst, most evil person in the galaxy, she was excited for a brief moment to have a grandpa. That allowed her to struggle (a little bit) for almost the first time in the entire trilogy. I would have preferred her to be a Skywalker by blood, but the more I think on it, the more I see how after TLJ, this was really the only thing left that they could have done.
Far be it from me to argue that she should have been a genetic Skywalker, but nobody ever said they HAD to make the sequels. If you wanted the Skywalker saga done, just simply let ROTJ be the end.

Quote
I do agree that (as much as I hate saying it) Chewie should've died, as that would have provided an even greater struggle at the end, but that is whatever.
Bring on the RVB memes: "You killed Chewie, you team-killing #$%&tard."



Thought of the day:

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PsychoSith
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« Reply #124 on: January 21, 2020, 06:11:05 PM »


Thought of the day:



Gah! And THAT cg nightmare is back in my head
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Darth Tepes
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« Reply #125 on: January 21, 2020, 06:26:08 PM »

And that's what they get for ASSuming.

1) Genetics prove nothing. Otherwise, why don't we ever hear about more siblings in the Jedi Order? Or more so, why aren't there Jedi families? And as I said earlier, in Darth Plagueis, Palpatine did not come from Force sensitive parents. But, fat chance Jar Jar would have known that when he wrote TROS. Rey is a lame Mary Sue. Plain and simple. But I won't disagree that there is a powerful theme behind this notion: one doesn't have to be special in order to do great things; that nobility is born in the heart, not the genetics of the bloodline. I believe that the idiot idea of genetic legacy is the single greatest #$%& up in human history.



Just because their parents weren't Force Sensitives doesn't mean their Grandparents weren't, or their great grandparents.  Not all Force Sensitives become Jedi/Sith and many Jedi (EU and Current Canon) left the order and had families.  But the knowing anyone from any walk of life or planet could be a Jedi has been known for a long time.  The Skywalkers were just exceptionally powerful because of Anakin being the Chosen One and Leia and Luke being his Children had the potential to carry that same strength.   
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« Reply #126 on: January 21, 2020, 06:43:11 PM »

Just because their parents weren't Force Sensitives doesn't mean their Grandparents weren't, or their great grandparents.  Not all Force Sensitives become Jedi/Sith and many Jedi (EU and Current Canon) left the order and had families.  But the knowing anyone from any walk of life or planet could be a Jedi has been known for a long time.  The Skywalkers were just exceptionally powerful because of Anakin being the Chosen One and Leia and Luke being his Children had the potential to carry that same strength.   
Not arguing that it couldn't happen, merely that if genetics played that strong a part in who does/doesn't get the Force, then one would think that there would be more siblings in the order. Also, it would have made cloning a sensitive far easier.
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Darth Tepes
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« Reply #127 on: January 21, 2020, 07:51:14 PM »

Not arguing that it couldn't happen, merely that if genetics played that strong a part in who does/doesn't get the Force, then one would think that there would be more siblings in the order. Also, it would have made cloning a sensitive far easier.

Siblings don't always share the same traits.. plus there might have been siblings in the Order...they just didn't know.
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« Reply #128 on: January 21, 2020, 08:03:15 PM »

Siblings don't always share the same traits.. plus there might have been siblings in the Order...they just didn't know.
That's just 10 levels of messed up. Plus, how would they get around the eventuality of the siblings sensing the connection between them. I reference Luke figuring out that Leia was his "anonymous" sister.
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Darth Tepes
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« Reply #129 on: January 21, 2020, 08:06:02 PM »

That's just 10 levels of messed up. Plus, how would they get around the eventuality of the siblings sensing the connection between them. I reference Luke figuring out that Leia was his "anonymous" sister.

Luke's power level, insight and his closeness with Leia I think is what allowed him to figure it out...but really had Yoda not gave a death bed confession it probably would have stayed a secret.
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« Reply #130 on: January 21, 2020, 08:21:17 PM »

Luke's power level, insight and his closeness with Leia I think is what allowed him to figure it out...but really had Yoda not gave a death bed confession it probably would have stayed a secret.
But, this sister could have been ANYONE in the galaxy, and he figures it out with relative haste. However, considering what is known about twins (identical and fraternal), their connection would have been stronger than typical siblings. But also, Leia confesses that she's somehow always known (really making that kiss all the more disturbing).
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Darth Tepes
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« Reply #131 on: January 21, 2020, 08:35:45 PM »

But, this sister could have been ANYONE in the galaxy, and he figures it out with relative haste. However, considering what is known about twins (identical and fraternal), their connection would have been stronger than typical siblings. But also, Leia confesses that she's somehow always known (really making that kiss all the more disturbing).

It does..chalk another one up to Lucas writing
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« Reply #132 on: January 21, 2020, 09:06:41 PM »

It does..chalk another one up to Lucas writing
And then it just got even worse when the cycle started aaaalllll over again in TROS. Tongue

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Darth Tepes
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« Reply #133 on: January 21, 2020, 09:11:15 PM »

And then it just got even worse when the cycle started aaaalllll over again in TROS. Tongue



Dunno whether to laugh or cry...or both.  So Ill give you a point instead.
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Galef
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« Reply #134 on: January 21, 2020, 11:54:06 PM »

And then it just got even worse when the cycle started aaaalllll over again in TROS. Tongue


As gross as that is, I actually think that was what we ended up with.  Not biologically, mind you, but metaphorically
That was the whole purpose of her taking Luke and Leia's sabers to Tattooine and only their Force Ghosts being present

Regarding the Rey being nobody: As nice a message as it is that "nobody" can be special, it's a much more powerful message (in my opinion) that someone descended from the dark side can CHOOSE the light.  And it's a more consistent message with the rest of SW with both Vader & Ben choosing the light in the end.
SW is meant to be a modern mythology and tons of Greek and Arthurian legendary heroes have special heritages.

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