Thoughts on The Rise of Skywalker - SPOILERS

[Majobu5]

Arguing Snokes "bond" is irrelevant, because the Last Jedi destroys that notion in one of the last scenes. Snoke is already dead, Rey is boarding the Falcon with the remaining survivors, and she's looking down at Kylo from wherever he was at(I forget). They were STILL bonded. How? I don't know, I don't care, if they're a Dyad, cool. Honestly, I don't need an explanation of how, what, why for everything!!! I've seen maybe 3 videos of dudes saying why they hate the Rise of Skywalker, and they'll vent for 10 minutes on what's wrong with the franchise before they start talking about the actual film...

EXPECTATIONS VS REALITY!!!

If you want to make a great film, do it yourself. It's not perfect, but it is was it is. If social media was around at the time of the original trilogy, the original 3 would have never survived!! There'd be outlash about "wait, there's retcon about Luke's father!! Why didn't Leia become a Jedi too?! Blah blah blah!!!" No one wins... You give ppl a voice, unfortunately, you get negativity.

[Sani2341]

No, even in some older games it was an on-the-spot heal.

Well good to know you only skimmed my post.
Because the way most games abstract health, wounds and healing, using them to gauge actual healing abilities is a very poor idea, which is why i explicitly excluded them.

Same with baby yoda - he pushed venom/poison out of Karga's body in seconds.

Which is, if comparing to Legends, either force heal as in accelerating the bodies capabilities of filtering out toxins(which it normaly just can't Do fast enough to matter for lethal ones)

Or, more likely, a delicate Application of telekineses to literaly drag the Toxin out.

The original bond was - however whether the bond caused the dyad to form  - or if Rey and Kylo had a pre-existing latent connection that was fully awakened by the bond is up for debate. Meetra Surik / Darth Traya comes to mind.

So its still a handwave at Best imho. Though that gets into a point where one Personaly draws the line as far as 'reasonable' and the force are concerned.

Also regarding force heal, I looked up the wiki article for the legends counterpart, and Kylo and Rey's exchange is well within the norm, surprisingly, theres even a couple instances of straight up resurrection.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Force_healing/Legends

Huh, you sure you mean the article you linked to, because i couldn't find any mention of out right resurection. The closest that gets is 'back from the brink of death'.
And the Part that lines up with what they did is the explicitly darkside use of it, seeing as the Light side one only accelrates healing, where as the dark one out right repairs damage for a price by channeling emotions like Anger and pain.

Arguing Snokes "bond" is irrelevant, because the Last Jedi destroys that notion in one of the last scenes. Snoke is already dead, Rey is boarding the Falcon with the remaining survivors, and she's looking down at Kylo from wherever he was at(I forget). They were STILL bonded. How? I don't know, I don't care, if they're a Dyad, cool. Honestly, I don't need an explanation of how, what, why for everything!!! I've seen maybe 3 videos of dudes saying why they hate the Rise of Skywalker, and they'll vent for 10 minutes on what's wrong with the franchise before they start talking about the actual film...

Glad you can enjoy starwars as a mindless Action Flick.

I Personaly expected to get something That's at least somewhat coherent. Especially as Disney did proof a couple Times that they can produce starwars Media that capture everything i liked about starwars, which begins with a internaly coherent Story.
This whole trilogy had no overarcing idea behind it and it Shows.
The ot Was a nice sifi take on the classic hero's journey.
The prequels, while badly written, still told the Story of the fallen hero.
The sequels? No idea what they wanted to be beyond a nostalgia fueld Cash Grab.

EXPECTATIONS VS REALITY!!!

If you want to make a great film, do it yourself. It's not perfect, but it is was it is. If social media was around at the time of the original trilogy, the original 3 would have never survived!! There'd be outlash about "wait, there's retcon about Luke's father!! Why didn't Leia become a Jedi too?! Blah blah blah!!!" No one wins... You give ppl a voice, unfortunately, you get negativity.

Well 'not perfect' is technicly correct, though it's quite an understatment.
And while i dont think i can make a better Film, seeing as i Lack any experience with filmmaking. I am somewhat confident in my ability to write a more coherent trilogy. Heck just the fact i have an overarcing Story already sketched out for the trilogy of books i want to write soon(tm) Puts the whole Thing ahead as far as that is concerned. Even if it just a different take on the classic greek hero's journey.

But as said, if you enjoy the direction Disney is taking for SW movies, you Do you.
I'll be at home, enjoying the, imho, best starwars we have gotten since before the Vong. Well once we get the next Episode of mandalorian any ways.

[LSUJedi]

Also Kylo and Rey can bridge their minds at will now? It was specifically stated by Snoke in TLJ that HE was the one bridging their minds.

Snoke bridged their minds. Past tense. If an architect builds a bridge, does it disappear when he dies? No, it's already built.

[PsychoSith]

Well good to know you only skimmed my post.
Because the way most games abstract health, wounds and healing, using them to gauge actual healing abilities is a very poor idea, which is why i explicitly excluded them.  
Which is, if comparing to Legends, either force heal as in accelerating the bodies capabilities of filtering out toxins(which it normaly just can't Do fast enough to matter for lethal ones)
Or, more likely, a delicate Application of telekineses to literaly drag the Toxin out. 

I actually did thoroughly read the post and where I used games as a mention, I also brought up baby yoda specifically for the reason that we have seen heal work quickly. And no, I dont believe he used telekinesis - where would the toxin go? Only option there is out of his pores which would have been visible.

Huh, you sure you mean the article you linked to, because i couldn't find any mention of out right resurection. The closest that gets is 'back from the brink of death'.
And the Part that lines up with what they did is the explicitly darkside use of it, seeing as the Light side one only accelrates healing, where as the dark one out right repairs damage for a price by channeling emotions like Anger and pain.

I did, in fact, mean to post this. If you scroll to the bottom there is a mention of Darth Krayt resurrecting himself with the power which is way more ludicrous than anything in TRoS imo.

As for it only being darkside here is an except from the first paragraph of the article

"Greater levels of attainment were also able to mend far more severe injuries, even major damage to flesh and bone and even going as far as to mend internal damage, such as damage to the heart, lungs, and so forth; even to the point of sustaining functions of lost organs. This was shown in a more perverse form by Darth Vader, but was properly utilized by the most skilled of Jedi."

The article states a multitude of times that even in the EU, Force Heal is a universal power capable of dramatic feats of bodily repair.

Glad you can enjoy starwars as a mindless Action Flick.

Unnecessary.

[Sani2341]

I actually did thoroughly read the post and where I used games as a mention, I also brought up baby yoda specifically for the reason that we have seen heal work quickly. And no, I dont believe he used telekinesis - where would the toxin go? Only option there is out of his pores which would have been visible.

Well then Why bring up the games at All? Seeing as the Argument you drew from them Was 'inatant heals exist' which is only true for the Abstraktion of healthiness used in games, Baby yoda would have been just as apt an example on it's own.
As for yoda and using heal or telekineses. In either case it would have wound up where most toxins and waste products filtered out of the blood stream go: his Urin.

I did, in fact, mean to post this. If you scroll to the bottom there is a mention of Darth Krayt resurrecting himself with the power which is way more ludicrous than anything in TRoS imo.

You mean the subsection giving a short out Look of a similar But unrelated Power called 'dark transfer'? Which explicitly needed specific Training for jedi to pull of according to the same blurb?

As for it only being darkside here is an except from the first paragraph of the article

I never said the Power to heal is exclusively darkside. What i said is that the Part lining up with whats shown onscreen is the dark side use of the Power which Takes some Form of cost from the User.

"Greater levels of attainment were also able to mend far more severe injuries, even major damage to flesh and bone and even going as far as to mend internal damage, such as damage to the heart, lungs, and so forth; even to the point of sustaining functions of lost organs. This was shown in a more perverse form by Darth Vader, but was properly utilized by the most skilled of Jedi."

So we skipping over the Part where it says beginners need to actually meditate to use it at All, and peopel more skilled at it could get accelerated Regeneration without Meditation.
And ignore the later Part that calls out healing others as a specialised Form of this Power?

The article states a multitude of times that even in the EU, Force Heal is a universal power capable of dramatic feats of bodily repair.

Hm, i must have missed mentions three to multitude about jedi using it for mending Grave wounds. Seeing as the only example given Was healing a broken bone during meditation and telekineticly removing toxins.
Seeing as everything from Alternative used onwards refernces only Sith.

[Darth Logos]

If you want to make a great film, do it yourself. It's not perfect, but it is was it is. If social media was around at the time of the original trilogy, the original 3 would have never survived!! There'd be outlash about "wait, there's retcon about Luke's father!! Why didn't Leia become a Jedi too?! Blah blah blah!!!" No one wins... You give ppl a voice, unfortunately, you get negativity.

The pacing was atrocious. I understand the JJ had to effectively undo as much of TLJ as possible and then try to put some semblance of plot together. He was effectively working with a stone around his neck. But this is the garbage you get when you let directors write. Especially directors that don't get their subject matter, and try way too hard to be edgy.

The teleportation through their connection: dumb.
The dagger being inscribed with instruction to find the wayfinder: dumb.
The Goonies ripoff of aligning the thing to find an exact location without proper point of reference: dumb.
The wayfinder: dumb.
Quicksand that empties into a cave: dumb.
SDs with kill lasers: dumb. (although not entirely devoid of merit*)

Per usual the list goes on. I will admit that there were brief high points in this film, and the rate of occurrence was significantly greater than its predecessors, but they were exceptionally short lived.  

* The planet killer fleet is not an original idea, however the original concepts were far better. Basically multiple ships would be able to achieve the ends of the Deathstar.



And then I found this this morning:



My beef with Death Star Destroyers is that they're too small to generate the necessary power to destroy a planet.

[Infinit01]

Arguing Snokes "bond" is irrelevant, because the Last Jedi destroys that notion in one of the last scenes. Snoke is already dead, Rey is boarding the Falcon with the remaining survivors, and she's looking down at Kylo from wherever he was at(I forget). They were STILL bonded. How? I don't know, I don't care, if they're a Dyad, cool. Honestly, I don't need an explanation of how, what, why for everything!!! I've seen maybe 3 videos of dudes saying why they hate the Rise of Skywalker, and they'll vent for 10 minutes on what's wrong with the franchise before they start talking about the actual film...

EXPECTATIONS VS REALITY!!!

If you want to make a great film, do it yourself. It's not perfect, but it is was it is. If social media was around at the time of the original trilogy, the original 3 would have never survived!! There'd be outlash about "wait, there's retcon about Luke's father!! Why didn't Leia become a Jedi too?! Blah blah blah!!!" No one wins... You give ppl a voice, unfortunately, you get negativity.

Exactly.

[Sakura No Kaze]

Ok, here's my question for everyone:
Given that you cannot change anything already done in TFA and TLJ, and you have 2 hours to tell the story, what would your explanation of Rey have been?

Obi-Wan and Satine's grandchild? Direct clone of Palpatine with a few genetic modifications to hide her from the New Republic and Luke? Random girl picked by the Force to balance things out because, hey, she's as good as anybody else? Descendent of a random Force sensitive youngling rescued by Ahsoka and the Phoenix squad? Some weird offspring of the Daughter? Child of protoculture blasted through the Time Vortex by the explosion of the Ori fleet and rescued by John Sheridan during his first deployment on the USS Stargazer?

I'm curious to know how you would have ended the story, keeping it consistent with what's already happened in TFA and TLJ?


Personal Opinion: I know why Disney did what they did with the EU, I just wish they had decided to continue the Skywalker saga with the Yuuzhan Vong invasion. That would have had everything everyone wanted in it. Including Boba Fett  

[Taegin Roan]

Well so far I liked it. I rewatched TFA and TLJ yesterday in preparation for TROS today, and I absolutely love TFA. TLJ, not so much. I've got a ton of issues with it, but there are still some decent things. I didn't have a problem with any plot related thing in the movie. Was it perfect? No, but far far better than TLJ IMO. Yes there were some things that could have been done better, but that easily could have been changed with giving JJ a longer time to work on this movie. Lots of symbology and parallels that I really enjoyed.

In regards to lightsabers, I'm so glad we got to see Leia's, loved the symolism of burrying Luke and Leia's side by side (twins), though I would have preferred it to have been Luke's green saber. Rey's yellow saber (gorgeous) is definitely a staff. You can see it while walking around on Tatooine. Since day one I've been saying that Rey either needs to have a pink saberstaff or a yellow one. While I personally would have preferred pink, I am perfectly satisfied with yellow.

And finally we see some training. Loved the training sequence (though not perfect), and I loved that we did get to see some training of Leia.

Obviously got lots more to say, but that is enough for Logos to tear apart for now.

[Saso Is-kor]

Ok, here's my question for everyone:
Given that you cannot change anything already done in TFA and TLJ, and you have 2 hours to tell the story, what would your explanation of Rey have been?

Obi-Wan and Satine's grandchild? Direct clone of Palpatine with a few genetic modifications to hide her from the New Republic and Luke? Random girl picked by the Force to balance things out because, hey, she's as good as anybody else? Descendent of a random Force sensitive youngling rescued by Ahsoka and the Phoenix squad? Some weird offspring of the Daughter? Child of protoculture blasted through the Time Vortex by the explosion of the Ori fleet and rescued by John Sheridan during his first deployment on the USS Stargazer?

I'm curious to know how you would have ended the story, keeping it consistent with what's already happened in TFA and TLJ?


Personal Opinion: I know why Disney did what they did with the EU, I just wish they had decided to continue the Skywalker saga with the Yuuzhan Vong invasion. That would have had everything everyone wanted in it. Including Boba Fett  

You bring up an excellent point of Rey's backstory. To be honest I have no idea what I personally would have done, but that goes to the heart of the problem with Rey's character from the very beginning. If you make a character off-the-rails insanely powerful then of course there has to be some reasonable explanation that goes along with that. Even after 3 movies we still don't have the answer. Sure, being a descendant of Palpatine is a start for being powerful in the Force, but consistently throughout the series we've seen abilities and powers that cannot be explained away. To be brutally honest, it almost would have made more sense that Rey was Anakin reincarnated or something. It sounds ridiculous but that's the problem, Rey being allowed to grow into something that simply cannot be explained by any reasonable means. I do think it could have been salvaged after TFA, but TLJ crossed the bridge, then proceeded to utterly dynamite the thing. There was no going back.

[StupidSexyFlanders]

The healing power just can't be justified to me. Why couldn't Obi-Wan save Qui-Gon? He was still alive right up until the end of the fight. Obi-Wan wouldn't have died if he did. Why didn't Anakin try healing his mom?

[Taegin Roan]

The healing power just can't be justified to me. Why couldn't Obi-Wan save Qui-Gon? He was still alive right up until the end of the fight. Obi-Wan wouldn't have died if he did. Why didn't Anakin try healing his mom?

Here is my take on the healing. How to do it properly was either not known to the wider Jedi, or it is something that they were unable to do (maybe because of power levels or something). Obviously we know that Baby Yoda can do it, but he is so young and has no training that it is out of instinct (and he is probably extremely strong given the track record of that species). Rey probably learned to do it from the Ancient Jedi Texts. She has been studying them for something like a year, and has no reason to believe that she can not do it. It is clearly shown that Ben and Rey have a connection, and once Rey sees Kylo/Ben do something, she can do it as well, so why would it be any different with Ben seeing Rey do something? I also think there is quite a bit of instinctual-ness to Rey using Force Heal as well. But really, why shouldn't someone be able to heal using the Force?

As for the Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon thing, I'll refer you to a video where Star Wars Theory talks quite a bit about it.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTvQTjk1oyA" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTvQTjk1oyA</a>

I believe this is the right one. I've watched a bunch of videos from him today.

[Sani2341]

Ok, here's my question for everyone:
Given that you cannot change anything already done in TFA and TLJ, and you have 2 hours to tell the story, what would your explanation of Rey have been?

Obi-Wan and Satine's grandchild? Direct clone of Palpatine with a few genetic modifications to hide her from the New Republic and Luke? Random girl picked by the Force to balance things out because, hey, she's as good as anybody else? Descendent of a random Force sensitive youngling rescued by Ahsoka and the Phoenix squad? Some weird offspring of the Daughter? Child of protoculture blasted through the Time Vortex by the explosion of the Ori fleet and rescued by John Sheridan during his first deployment on the USS Stargazer?

I'm curious to know how you would have ended the story, keeping it consistent with what's already happened in TFA and TLJ?


Personal Opinion: I know why Disney did what they did with the EU, I just wish they had decided to continue the Skywalker saga with the Yuuzhan Vong invasion. That would have had everything everyone wanted in it. Including Boba Fett  

I would have stayed the course of rey being a nobody that was just the right force sensitive at the right place at the right time.
Turn the conflict into a three way one with palps wanting a New meatpuppet to live in. Preferably his apperentices grandson.
Let kylo find out that palps is going to possess him and rebel with the knights of ren and parts of the first order.
The reaistance mean while would be trying to figure out what is going on with the first order (i would have cut palps Transmission at the very start and instead have spy hux sent them a tip that something big is going to happen before he gets shot mid Transmission.)
After some of the tangential side Plots they find the dagger, or make it an out right lightsaber hilt. On that is inscribed not a way to find palps, But an ancient Ritual to keep one self from being turned into a puppet for a Sith ghost.

Just as the reaistance is about to give up after their desperate wild goose chace failed, kylo appears in his tie, and after a fight initialized by the heros that Cuts of a leg from kylo, rey gets her 'oh f- what did i just do' moment while kylo offers an enemy mine between his loyalists and the reaistance.
He spills the beans about everything, and after admitting He found them due to reys unbriddled Frustration that the dagger would lead them no where, explains that this dagger's technique is just what they needed and the two perform the described Ritual to prepare for their fight with palps.
They then call on landos fleet immediatly, which Gives us a space battle above exogol reminiscent of the one at the Start of rots, with fo destroyers and the ragtag fleet of the reaistance fighting of the defeinding not!eclipse class stardestroyer. Once a hole has been punched through the defense, a shuttle carrying a strike Team of knights of ren, fin leading some of the ex Stormtroopers they found, kylo and rey, makes Planet Fall and they fight their way to palpatines Throne. Once they arrive, the audience would *see* him for the for the first time, as He would have been talked about until now, and scenes with him talking should have had him obscured by the Throne.
After a climactic battle against Sith cultists guided by their Masters battlemeditation, we get to the lightning lightning beam-o-wars. Rey gets knocked out soon, propmting palps to Focus on kylo,who barely Manages to hold on until rey comes to again. She Takes the dagger from her Belt, as the reactivaition of her lightsaber would give her away, and stabs the old Sith in the eye from slightly behind
All this while, fin would have been coordinating the knights and troopers keeping reinforcements to join the fight, But the moment palps dies his cultists would collapse.

After this kylo probably should survive as a Vision of Luke apologieses for his misdeeds, and urges kylo to take his mothers work up.
In the end we would have the kylo first order Show singns of intermingling with the reaistance before kylo and rey give a speech to the effect of 'let's try politics instead of War'

And then i would close on kylo visiting his great grandmas Grave looking at the sunset, intercut with rey watching the sunset from the top of the yavin pyramids. While kylo burries his Families lightsabers next to their ancestor, anakin appears and Gives the vader fanatic a thank you. Mean while rey is meditating over parts as slowly a lightsaber Takes shape.
The last Image would be her igniting it, with a landing field filled with resources and finn sheperding some Kids.

[StupidSexyFlanders]

I also love how they decided it was appropriate to end the Skywalker saga by killing off all the blood lineage of the Skywalkers and now we just have Rey calling herself a Skywalker. Great writing.
Can't be her own character. This whole trilogy might as well have just been a reboot at this point.

[StupidSexyFlanders]

Watch this at the 12:46 mark onwards. George Lucas confirms that Anakin was the chosen one and he DID bring balance to the force by DESTROYING himself and Palpatine. If Palpatine lived then balance was NOT achieved and this directly contradicts what the creator of Star Wars confirms in this video. I don't care about EU and books. That's the final word as far as I'm concerned.  Rey being the chosen one 2.0 is nothing but bad fanfic that  contradicts pre-established lore.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqLsQClut5c" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqLsQClut5c</a>