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Author Topic: Thoughts on The Rise of Skywalker - SPOILERS  (Read 35182 times)
Taegin Roan
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« Reply #135 on: January 22, 2020, 12:54:53 AM »

Regarding the Rey being nobody: As nice a message as it is that "nobody" can be special, it's a much more powerful message (in my opinion) that someone descended from the dark side can CHOOSE the light.  And it's a more consistent message with the rest of SW with both Vader & Ben choosing the light in the end.

Agreed.
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« Reply #136 on: January 22, 2020, 04:56:49 PM »

Dunno whether to laugh or cry...or both.  So Ill give you a point instead.
Muahahahahahahahahaha

Regarding the Rey being nobody: As nice a message as it is that a "nobody" can be special, it's a much more powerful message (in my opinion) that someone descended from the dark side can CHOOSE the light.  And it's a more consistent message with the rest of SW with both Vader & Ben choosing the light in the end.
SW is meant to be a modern mythology and tons of Greek and Arthurian legendary heroes have special heritages.
This is actually a strong Christian theme, but I won't get into it here. (PM me for thoughts.)
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« Reply #137 on: January 27, 2020, 04:13:52 PM »

WARNING: Intermittent use of language.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_PvagQb_lA" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_PvagQb_lA</a>
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darkferris
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« Reply #138 on: January 28, 2020, 12:22:33 AM »

From a story stand point a had a lot of issues with it. It’s just ROTJ all over again plus them ripping on endgame “I am all the Sith...and I am all the Jedi.”
“I am inevitable...and I am iron man!” How lazy is Disney?

Leia could of been handled differently. I would of had her death in the crawl, with the opening scene be her funeral. And time to time Rey could look back onto her training her when she loses her way or focus.
And where the F was Luke...everyone crapped on RJ for how he handled Luke, but he did something with him. JJ used him as McGuffin like he does in all his movies and then gives him zero lines. Then barely uses him in ROS.
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« Reply #139 on: January 28, 2020, 02:42:47 PM »

From a story stand point a had a lot of issues with it. It’s just ROTJ all over again plus them ripping on endgame “I am all the Sith...and I am all the Jedi.”
“I am inevitable...and I am iron man!” How lazy is Disney?
You really have to ask?
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Bob Loblaw
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« Reply #140 on: January 28, 2020, 06:15:40 PM »

From a story stand point a had a lot of issues with it. It’s just ROTJ all over again plus them ripping on endgame “I am all the Sith...and I am all the Jedi.”
“I am inevitable...and I am iron man!” How lazy is Disney?

I saw TROS a second time yesterday with my mom.
I couldn't help myself. Right after Rey said "and I am all the Jedi", I shouted "And I am inevitable!". The whole theater laughed.

Good times, terrible movie. That's my entire review. Your welcome.  Smiley
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« Reply #141 on: January 28, 2020, 07:04:35 PM »

I couldn't help myself. Right after Rey said "and I am all the Jedi", I shouted "And I am inevitable!". The whole theater laughed.
I would have gone with "And I am Iron Man."
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Galef
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« Reply #142 on: January 28, 2020, 07:30:10 PM »

I enjoyed it, though I would have liked a bit more foreshadowing in the prior movies about Palps being back.
I don't have an issue with the "I am all the Sith/I am all the Jedi" though I agree it would have been better it they worded it differently.

Like Palpatine could have said that his power is the culmination of the rule 2 and power being magnified and pass for generations.
Then Rey could have had all the Force Ghost Jedi standing behind her Harry Potter style and once Palps body was destroyed, the Force Ghosts destroyed his spirit

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PsychoSith
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« Reply #143 on: January 28, 2020, 07:32:56 PM »

I enjoyed it, though I would have liked a bit more foreshadowing in the prior movies about Palps being back.
I don't have an issue with the "I am all the Sith/I am all the Jedi" though I agree it would have been better it they worded it differently.

Like Palpatine could have said that his power is the culmination of the rule 2 and power being magnified and pass for generations.
Then Rey could have had all the Force Ghost Jedi standing behind her Harry Potter style and once Palps body was destroyed, the Force Ghosts destroyed his spirit

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This, mostly.

The "I am all the Sith" line for me was brilliant. Rey's retort - a little less so but I didnt actively dislike it. Just didnt quite stick the landing as much.

EDIT: Ooh! You know what would have worked better for me by a lot? Like or hate it, a callback to the previous movie wouldve made a nice tit-for-tat.

"I am all the Sith!"

"And I...am the Last Jedi!"

Would've cemented Rey's defiant attitude. Kind of a "i'll stand against you until I'm dead" statement.
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« Reply #144 on: January 28, 2020, 07:37:12 PM »

I enjoyed it, though I would have liked a bit more foreshadowing in the prior movies about Palps being back.
I don't have an issue with the "I am all the Sith/I am all the Jedi" though I agree it would have been better it they worded it differently.

Like Palpatine could have said that his power is the culmination of the rule 2 and power being magnified and pass for generations.
Then Rey could have had all the Force Ghost Jedi standing behind her Harry Potter style and once Palps body was destroyed, the Force Ghosts destroyed his spirit
But this would have only magnified the problem. If simply being "Last" meant you had the cumulative power of all your predecessors, then Luke, not Rey, should have been the ALL the Jedi.

The whole idea was dumb.
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Galef
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« Reply #145 on: January 28, 2020, 08:15:40 PM »

But this would have only magnified the problem. If simply being "Last" meant you had the cumulative power of all your predecessors, then Luke, not Rey, should have been the ALL the Jedi.

The whole idea was dumb.
No, you misunderstand.  I am saying that due to the SITH rule of 2, Palpatine would have been the culmination of power from all previous Sith, while Rey would have just been supported by the Force Ghosts of the Jedi, but not has said "I am all the Jedi"

It would also be a good way to explain why Sith cannot be Force ghost (because the apprentice "steals" the essence of the master when they kill them, while Jedi can become force ghosts because they are selfless AND why Anakin killing Palps the first time broke that cycle by acting selfless, not as a Sith

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« Reply #146 on: January 28, 2020, 09:01:46 PM »

No, you misunderstand.  I am saying that due to the SITH rule of 2, Palpatine would have been the culmination of power from all previous Sith, while Rey would have just been supported by the Force Ghosts of the Jedi, but not has said "I am all the Jedi"
Uuummmm......no. Two scenarios, both bad.

1) If he had all the power of a Millennium worth of Sith, he'd have been unstoppable.
2) If what was shown represents ALL the power of 1000 years of Sith knowledge and power, it was #$%&ing weak. A little girl with the slightest understanding of the power within her beats that? I don't think so.

Per usual, it was pretentious, dumb, and wrong. 

Quote
It would also be a good way to explain why Sith cannot be Force ghost (because the apprentice "steals" the essence of the master when they kill them, while Jedi can become force ghosts because they are selfless AND why Anakin killing Palps the first time broke that cycle by acting selfless, not as a Sith
Um, also wrong. Sith generally meet violent ends. And in keeping with terran "understanding" of the spirit world, spirits that meet violent ends are often anchored to a place or thing. Thusly, hauntings and possessions. (i.e.: Exar Kun.)

Unless you're using this idea as a possible method to explain the idea of "kill me outta hatred, and my essence will enter your body". I can honestly say it's not the worst concept I've heard. The only foreseeable snare is, what happens if an apprentice doesn't kill out of hate. (i.e.: Darth Zannah. She didn't want to kill Bane. She had grown attached to him, like a brother, but also wanted to make sure that she had all his knowledge. So Bane initiated the duel. I felt that she wasn't prepared to kill him, so she couldn't have killed him out of hate.)
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Galef
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« Reply #147 on: January 28, 2020, 09:04:53 PM »

WEAK? Dude shot lightning and nearly wiped the whole good guy fleet BY HIMSELF.

Agree to disagree, it felt like SW to me (flaws and all). And much of what I suggested is supported by other canon material (not that that excuses the lack of explanation in the movie itself, I'll admit)

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PsychoSith
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« Reply #148 on: January 28, 2020, 09:14:45 PM »

Unless you're using this idea as a possible method to explain the idea of "kill me outta hatred, and my essence will enter your body". I can honestly say it's not the worst concept I've heard. The only foreseeable snare is, what happens if an apprentice doesn't kill out of hate. (i.e.: Darth Zannah. She didn't want to kill Bane. She had grown attached to him, like a brother, but also wanted to make sure that she had all his knowledge. So Bane initiated the duel. I felt that she wasn't prepared to kill him, so she couldn't have killed him out of hate.)

This is the insinuation here. Its why Palps in every circumstance urged people to give into their hate to strike him down. It would be them giving into their temptations to the dark side and allow his spirit to possess them, thus continuing the chain.

And i agree that I don't think Zannah hated him. However when Bane also ended the duel with a mental attack against Zannah, which she "won" but clearly a part of Bane lived on within her (hence the hand tremor). That part of Bane i think pushed her further into the dark and started the "chain" so to speak. It was Bane's philosophy that continued, but the first Sith to "live on" fully would be Zannah, technically.
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« Reply #149 on: January 28, 2020, 09:50:21 PM »

WEAK? Dude shot lightning and nearly wiped the whole good guy fleet BY HIMSELF.
Exactly. Notice that this "power" only took place after he used Essence Drain on the 2 most powerful beings in existence? I would have expected much more, even without the Essence Drain, had he literally been the embodiment of a thousand years of Sith power. Like not only is he disabling enemy craft, but his lightning is actually disintegrating them. Offer up more of a HOLY-$#!%-WE'RE-ALL-GONNA-DIE feeling.

Quote
Agree to disagree, it felt like SW to me (flaws and all). And much of what I suggested is supported by other canon material (not that that excuses the lack of explanation in the movie itself, I'll admit)
I'm not disagreeing that the essence transfer could explain the "why no ghost?"

This is the insinuation here. Its why Palps in every circumstance urged people to give into their hate to strike him down. It would be them giving into their temptations to the dark side and allow his spirit to possess them, thus continuing the chain.
An interesting interpretation. And may also possibly have explained why he looked worried when Windu was about to kill him.

Quote
And i agree that I don't think Zannah hated him. However when Bane also ended the duel with a mental attack against Zannah, which she "won" but clearly a part of Bane lived on within her (hence the hand tremor). That part of Bane i think pushed her further into the dark and started the "chain" so to speak. It was Bane's philosophy that continued, but the first Sith to "live on" fully would be Zannah, technically.
I too am in the camp the 'part of Bane made it through to Zannah', but if I'm not mistaken, Drew admitted that Bane was completely destroyed. What I remember of Legacy of Evil is Zannah was already prepared to take up the Rule of Two when she took Cognus as her apprentice. Zannah had spent almost her entire life, up to that point, working toward the end of the Grand Plan. Plus she already had a well documented hatred of the Jedi. Highly unlikely that she would abandon the goal.

Also, the Essence Transfer in the Bane trilogy had to be enacted by the one who was moving in. If the recipient's will was too strong to be overpowered by the invading spirit, that spirit was lost to oblivion since the original body was destroyed. If this were the same thing, then Sidious wouldn't have needed to be struck down.

But I do acquiesce, this notion would be an acceptable retcon in order to "clean up" part of the inconsistencies of the OC. 
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