Disagreements with the Jedi

[Hulk10]

I find myself in disagreement with the Jedi in the rule of no attachments at all. I understand the rationale behind it but I do not agree with it. After all detachment is not compassion either.

What say the rest of you?

[SirLiftaLot]

That is a reasonable view to hold. In fact, I'd argue it is the correct view to hold. A big part of the story of the Star Wars movies was that the Jedi were misguided, and if they had handled Anakin differently, not just told him to forget his mother in slavery, and then told him that relationships and emotions like love are bad while at the same time putting an insanely gifted and talented Jedi going through puberty with politician that looks like Natalie Portman, and giving them a lot of time alone together. What could possibly go wrong?

In terms of existing schools of philosophy and theology, or whatever you would call it, the concept of non-attachment is often misunderstood in my view. I would sometimes prefer it to be called non-possessiveness. It is not bad to enjoy things, or to love people. What is undesirable is the fear of losing these things that are not inherently in our power to control and keep. Things that do not belong to us. Loving a parent, or a child, or a spouse, is healthy, is good, but fear of losing them is dangerous. Realizing that their health and their staying with you is, at least to a degree, not in your control. We should enjoy and love things and people while they are with us, but not fear losing them, and not be distraught if they are no longer with us for whatever reason.

Some people view forming attachments as a dangerous path, a risk, because those feelings of pleasure and love can lead us to fear losing them, or trying to control and maintain things that are not necessarily in our control. So they avoid taking these risks at all. But by not preparing others that may not have the ability to remain totally abstinent of emotions and attachments of how to manage these feelings, you run the risk of having them fall victim to them very easily once giving an inch to them.

Obi-Wan loved, and he is widely regarded as a great Jedi. Seeing the force in all things, in all beings, encourages love and compassion, just as seeing the divine or creator, whatever your faith and philosophy believes in, in all things and beings promotes love and compassion in people of many faiths and philosophy.

Following the will of the force may lead one to be a husband or a wife, a brother or a sister, a father or a mother. It is not playing these roles to the best of our ability that is the problem, it is fear of losing these things, and allowing the loss of them to make us become distraught that is the problem.

[Kryptonian Jedi]

Had another answer typed up but I’m inclined to agree with SirLiftaLot.

[Hulk10]

Yes I agree. The dogma was in part what doomed us.

[Taegin Roan]

Yeah, SLL pretty much nailed it. It is a topic I've thought about a fair amount. I actually think that Anakin had the right idea with it when he was talking to Padmé and said "Attachment is forbidden. Possession is forbidden. Compassion – which I would define as unconditional love – is central to a Jedi's life. So you might say that we are encouraged to love". Unfortunately, the rest of the order did not see it that way. The goal is that it is okay to have feelings, but it is not okay to act on impulse due to those feelings. The Jedi are as a group, first and foremost protectors, and often times when you let emotions get in the way of logical thinking, you make rash decisions that end up hurting more people than they do protecting. So while the Jedi went about it wrong, and took their ideals to a dogmatic level, the ideals themselves are not actually that bad. If more people would use logic rather than emotions to influence their decisions... well, lets just say the world would be in a very different place.

[SirLiftaLot]

Relevant:

[Kryptonian Jedi]

I think (barring any bad creative and editorial decisions) Luke will take good care of little Grogu and I have...hope that he and Din will see each other again.

It’d be fun to eventually see a padawan Grogu teaming up with his awesome mentors/adoptive Dad’s. (Can’t help but imagine him at some point getting a lightsaber hilt made of Beskar. )

[Hulk10]

Uh do you have any idea how long it takes Grogu and Yoda's species takes to mature?

But yeah you can form attachments so long as you are not afraid to lose them.

[Kryptonian Jedi]

Yes I am aware that Yoda’s species ages very slowly Hulk, so yeah it might be a thing where both Mando and Luke are older men and Grogu is a kid by the that time OR maybe it could still happen while he’s like toddler but Luke’s been able to teach him how to channel the Force in such a way that he doesn’t immediately exhaust himself.

[Hulk10]

Perhaps. But we don't know how well Grogu can actually speak.

[Darth Tepes]

In terms of Grogu and his maturity there is a few things to remember.  Yoda told Luke he had been training Jedi for 800 years.  As Yoda was 900 that clearly means he was 100 when he began training Jedi....anyway you cut it that means Grogu is way behind.  By 50 he should be at least teen level not toddler.  But then we go to what Ahsoka said:  "He was trained for Many years by Many Masters."  Grogu had at least 30 years worth of training...way more than Luke or Ahsoka had.  She also talks about his memory being blank...he has a "block" in his mind.  Its very possible he "stunted" himself due to the trauma of order 66.  Luke's choice of words are also interesting.  He never once said he was going to train Grogu.... he said master his abilities.  This denoted practice and honing.  Pedro Pascal has already stated there will be a time skip in season 3 so its quite  possible Luke will help Grogu unblock his mental faculties and he was have a maturity "spurt" and return to Din as basically a Jedi Knight.

[Hulk10]

They are said to remain infants for at least 50 standard years. They reach adulthood at 100.

[Darth Tepes]

They are said to remain infants for at least 50 standard years. They reach adulthood at 100.

Said.... where?  Because as far as I'm aware there is nothing on the species officially other than what has been said in the Show.  If there is a canon source that goes into more detail please let me know.

[Hulk10]

I read it on the wikia but it got the infomation from Chapter 1 the Mandalorian.

[DarthProdigal]

I almost went blind from how horrifyingly quick Spoilers emerged in an unrelated topic... no fair warning there. But thankfully I scroll fast, although moderately annoyed still... guess it is what it is.

The topic is a fair one, because it's accurate to say the Jedi Order acted rather inhumanely in the execution of it's own virtues. It's all very "the ends justify the means" to an extent by my rationale. Oh, it's much more "kind" to take children from their families so they don't remember them and generally bar them from contact after. And prohibiting their members from creating biological families of their own indefinitely.

I see the logic, because "family" or "emotional bonds" blur rational thought. Hence Sith ideology revolving around using emotions but avoiding being rules by them or bound by/forming resulting attachments. Love is chaos, people do atrocious things for, when in, and as a result of love. You can rationalize many behaviors defending those you love, providing for them, or simply trying to shield them from harm. As was said by someone earlier in this topic, the world would indeed be drastically different if people thought about "greater goods" or other things more often than their own desires/family. But that is divergent from the topic a bit, the Order attempted to avoid this entirely by outlawing it thus placing the mission or your vows first and foremost. Militaries tend to mirror this in not allowing fraternization within direct lines of command, or those who enter combat together (in theory). Because of course your ability to be calm and rational goes out the window when those you care for are felled or commit atrocious acts. It's hard to say "there is no emotion there is peace" if a Sith Lord just destroyed your family, let alone avoid Dark Side temptations of anger or retribution.

At it's core even the system the Jedi employed was flawed in avoiding these lasting connections. In all likelihood it would have been better to rotate younglings, padawans, knights, and all those going into missions together frequently. Even as fast as a few months, or if any lasting bonds of affection seemed to form. No half measures, keep them all detached and more like coworkers than any semblance of family. Or, if they were to allow any level of spouse style relationship the individuals who form bonds with Jedi must also swear similar vows, and be kept within the Temple or some adjoining stronghold. Less a part of the outside world for their own protection and the stability of the Order, with any offspring destined to be trained and housed on separate planets with no contact ever permitted; because what irrational things are parent's unwilling to do for their children?

In theory, the Jedi would have been better suited coming up with a drug similar to what's used in movies like Equilibrium or The Giver. No half measures, strip away that which could cloud judgements. But trying to keep a lid on inevitable behaviors and emotions was just doomed from the beginning.