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Author Topic: Mandalorian Season 3 Thoughts  (Read 2577 times)
Lord_S_Gray
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« on: April 23, 2023, 11:04:24 PM »

So with Mandalorian Season 3 Now done what are everyone’s thoughts on it? Interested to hear what others thought about it and its place in the ‘Mandoverse’ as it were?

NOTE Spoilers below>>>>



I guess I found it a bit difficult to get into as in a lot of ways the ‘reversal’ of Season 2’s ending by having Grogu go back to Din Djarin in Book of Boba Fett felt regressive and made the whole point of Season 2 moot.  It was a bit cringey at the start but picked up when visiting Mandalore, that freaky one eyed creature that captured Din Djarin hinted to me there was something new, something really weird and whacky to look into – like some kind of vulture like cyborg race that had occupied Mandalore?…but that led nowhere in the end.

The Season itself felt to me a bit of a mess, with a lot of filler material, the whole thing with the pirates / Navarro felt like a phoned in antagonist until Moff Gideon Came back, the ‘droid’ episode with phoned in cameos and digression to Coruscant seemed pointless too and could’ve been dealt with (if it was even needed) in two scenes.  The occasional glimpses of something deeper to Mando culture were just passed over in favour of some action shots chasing a flying thing. Grogu’s droid body felt like a shameless chance to sell a new toy ‘Talking Grogu in IG! With Yes/No sound, batteries not included!’

The last few episodes were the only point at which a coherent story seemed to come together - ‘re-taking’ Mandalore or at least part of it, but by then due to all that filler I, as the viewer had largely ‘checked out’ so it lacked impact – plus some spectacularly dumb decisions by both sides in the conflict [chasing jet pack storm troopers without knowing where they came from rather than regrouping and scouting…having all the Mando’s trapped between blast doors then just…opening the doors to shoot at them…having Din Djarin captured and not cutting his head off /tearing off his armour straight away…R5D4 saving the day R2D2 style from nowhere]. 

Bo Katan almost had some interesting moments throughout, notably admitting she ha surrendered to the empire, almost and identity struggle with the helmet thing, but lost amidst the other 'stuff' that was happening didn't feel like it really landed meaningfully.

I guess maybe if the intent was to wrap up the ‘Bo Katan / Mando Reunion’ story it did it OK, but felt a bit bland. Perhaps a large problem is the lack of suspense, it’s obvious now there is no way Grogu/Mando/Bo will be killed their Plot armour is too thick and obvious.

On the plus side the visual effects and costuming are great, but overall it felt to me like a string of average Saturday morning cartoon episodes with a finale 2 part episode, and just as forgettable.
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TheDutchman
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« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2023, 08:02:05 PM »

This post will have SPOILERS...

...So please read at your own risk  Wink

Ahem.

LSG hit on SO many salient points about this season: from the Grogo-going-with-the-Jedi-oh-wait-no-he-doesn't cop-out to the "Saturday morning cartoon" ambiance (I'm stealing that  Smiley) to the EXTREMELY uneven pacing ("The Convert" episode anyone?) and the, quite frankly, hideous "story" in "Guns For Hire" (bleh), Season 3 is a complete mess.

LSG also brings up a good point concerning the plot armor of Din, Grogo, and Bo-Katan and, while I don't completely agree, it's enough to undermine the drama and urgency of the plotting just KNOWING "Don't worry, they'll win/get away/figure out the solution."  Which segues into my biggest gripe: there was virtually NOTHING that elicited any excitement or worry (or, to be honest, interest sometimes) to follow the poorly-laid bread crumbs leading to /shock Moff Gideon's return!  And he's wearing beskar armor?!  And he's trying to clone himself?!?!  AND give said clones Force abilities?!?!?!

/sigh

OK, I WILL admit that I DID like the "Shadow Council" with Captain Pelleon (and name-dropping Thrawn) but I couldn't care less about "Project Necromancer" and the Sequel Trilogy fan service/tie-ins.  The Pretorian Guards COULD have been an excellent bit...but they were just "next-level" mooks.  And another wasted opportunity.

What if...they just demolished the Mandalorians, forcing them to retreat?  Then, with reinforcements, the Mandalorians could turn the tide, driving the Pretorians back and--after a nice, action-packed bit the likes of which I won't go into here--the Mandalorians are standing over their fallen foes, two Pretorians dead, the third dying, where he tells them that Thrawn will wipe them off of Mandalore just as the Empire did in his lifetime...where Din asks "Your lifetime?  Who are you?" and the Pretorian smiles, giving his name as he dies...

"Grodin Tierce."1

And when the Mandalorians remove the other Pretorians' helmets, they ALL have Tierce's face.

And Bo-Katan's admission that she SURRENDERED to the Empire could've led to an incredible plot where she ALSO must atone while NO ONE trusts her...instead of the few seconds where the collective Mandalorians just sit there, seemingly unaffected by such a bold revelation (really?  I'm mean: REALLY?!  THAT'S IT?!?!).

Overall: Season 3 was very uneven.  I liked certain scenes (I thought that the entire plot with Dr. Pershing could've led to...well, something else besides a Mind Flayer.  'Bye, Dr.) and the PLOT of "Retaking Mandalore" SHOULD have been something awesome.

All-in-all, it came off as quite...pedestrian.  Mediocre.

I would enjoy hearing what other members think  Smiley
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1: As seen in Timothy Zahn's "Hand of Thrawn" duology  Smiley
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Maestro Jones
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« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2023, 01:02:43 AM »

There were some great moments surrounded by ho-hum moments.  I felt like the whole season just sort of meandered around and didn't really go anywhere.  There were also a lot of plot points left just hanging with no resolution.  I would have liked the "Convert" better if it actually had any real impact on the season but it went nowhere and didn't really add nothing to the season, though it felt like it was going to.  I like "Guns for Hire" as it was fun, but again it didn't really add anything to the plot other than to find a way to get the Mandalorians together (and to get Bo Katan the Dark Saber).  Every episode with the pirates in it just seemed cheesy and pointless.  "The Foundling" was great as it expanded on The Watch's traditions and answered the question of how Grogu escaped Order 66.  Overall, the season seemed like it was trying to accomplish two things: provide a lot of fan service and try to "fix"/explain the sequel trilogy.  I didn't hate season 3, but I feel like they just "phoned in" the plot of the whole season.  The last episode had the feel of a series finally to it (even the last shot with Mando on the porch and Din Grogu playing with frogs in the pond made is seem like "The End").  It really didn't leave me feeling excited for a season 4 (though I know there's one on the horizon).  I was left wanting more after the ending of "Picard" than "The Mandalorian".  I'll watch a series with new crew of the Enterprise-G.  Yes, there was some unevenness and plot holes in that season as well, but at least every episode felt like it was moving the story forward.   
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Lord_S_Gray
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« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2023, 11:02:34 PM »

And Bo-Katan's admission that she SURRENDERED to the Empire could've led to an incredible plot where she ALSO must atone while NO ONE trusts her...instead of the few seconds where the collective Mandalorians just sit there, seemingly unaffected by such a bold revelation (really?  I'm mean: REALLY?!  THAT'S IT?!?!).

Indeed that felt undercooked, it should’ve led to a split across the Mando groups, some (from both camps) understanding others condemning any surrender, a much better cause for a fist fight than a ‘chess match’.  That could flow into using the Darksaber to ‘force’ loyalty via Creed and once the dark saber was destroyed the question of whether Bo Katan has any right to rule remains open with many doubting her.  Certainly Andor proved they have the writing ability to delve such a messy but far more realistic outcomes.

Overall, the season seemed like it was trying to accomplish two things: provide a lot of fan service and try to "fix"/explain the sequel trilogy.  I

I agree it suffers from trying to (1) filling plot holes from the sequel trilogy (re clones which themselves were bizarre what good would those Gideon clones be practically, or were they tests? Clones need training after or or they are just empty shells, but I digress) (2) teasing Thrawn's return via the Shadow council, rather than just be its own story (albeit much of that was not great).

Couldn’t Mandalore have just been occupied by those Cyborg creatures and ‘alamite’ Morlock things from the episodes 2/3 and they serve as an enemy? And/Or show the Mando’s taking mercenary work of dubious morality to build resources to retake/rebuild Mandalore - Thus dispensing with the need to bring Gideon back at all.

They have taken the easy option of Imperials as antagonist and the Republic as (mostly) Goodies and put the Mandalorians into that conflict rather than doing something new and different away from that. I understand why they have done it, to tie the Mandalorian into the Disney canon more closely (Mando-Rey Verse I guess), but it comes with narrative restrictions - though given the influence of the now toppling MCU it's not a surprise they want to interlace everything.
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Lord_S_Gray

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Kreia: "Does it matter? Of course it does, such titles allow you to break the galaxy into light and dark, categorize it. Perhaps I am neither, and I hold both as what they are, pieces of a whole."

TheDutchman
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« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2023, 07:12:30 PM »

Indeed that felt undercooked, it should’ve led to a split across the Mando groups, some (from both camps) understanding others condemning any surrender, a much better cause for a fist fight than a ‘chess match’.  That could flow into using the Darksaber to ‘force’ loyalty via Creed and once the dark saber was destroyed the question of whether Bo Katan has any right to rule remains open with many doubting her.  Certainly Andor proved they have the writing ability to delve such a messy but far more realistic outcomes.

I agree it suffers from trying to (1) filling plot holes from the sequel trilogy (re clones which themselves were bizarre what good would those Gideon clones be practically, or were they tests? Clones need training after or or they are just empty shells, but I digress) (2) teasing Thrawn's return via the Shadow council, rather than just be its own story (albeit much of that was not great).

Couldn’t Mandalore have just been occupied by those Cyborg creatures and ‘alamite’ Morlock things from the episodes 2/3 and they serve as an enemy? And/Or show the Mando’s taking mercenary work of dubious morality to build resources to retake/rebuild Mandalore - Thus dispensing with the need to bring Gideon back at all.

They have taken the easy option of Imperials as antagonist and the Republic as (mostly) Goodies and put the Mandalorians into that conflict rather than doing something new and different away from that. I understand why they have done it, to tie the Mandalorian into the Disney canon more closely (Mando-Rey Verse I guess), but it comes with narrative restrictions - though given the influence of the now toppling MCU it's not a surprise they want to interlace everything.

Funny you should mention the "Morlock" creatures; that is precisely what Mrs. Dutchman said as well  Smiley

But more to the point, I completely agree: there was no need to have Moff Gideon return...only for him to die (MAYBE) unceremoniously in a fireball ESPECIALLY with all of the pomp and ceremony built up during the season.  IMO, the whole "reunited tribes of Mandalore vs. the Empire" should've been LATER (if at all).  Consider: the whole "glassed, irradiated Mandalore" could've presented a unique conflict for all Mandalorians (not to mention a unifying theme from which the disparate Clans would gather behind Bo-Katan, especially with the destruction of the Darksaber).

Sadly, you're right re: MCU interconnected continuity.  I personally like fanservice BUT prefer for it to make sense within the narrative and not just used as a "stinger" or for the purposes of being an "easter egg" to be pointed out.  I think that a little moderation would go a long way here.  Case in point: "Andor" was mostly a self-contained story, one that expanded upon the SW 'Verse as a whole...but with the constant oppression of the Empire felt throughout.  And--with the final stinger of the season finale--we see that what the Empire is working towards is their ultimate weapon: the Death Star.  Again: conflict and fanservice done well.

For myself, I would've had the unseen-but-felt threat of Grand Admiral Thrawn as the Big Bad; again, Gideon felt as if he were shoehorned into the narrative.  Perhaps this was a result of the cancelled "Rangers of the New Republic" and the decision to merge the two storylines but this is only unverified conjecture...

Hopefully Mando Season 4 can course-correct; I really like these characters and believe that they deserve a better story than what we got with Season 3.
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Taegin Roan
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« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2023, 03:33:42 AM »

Only several months late to this conversation, but I'm very happy to see that I'm not the only one with issues regarding this season. I just had a very hard time being interested in it. I'd even go so far as to say that Book of Boba was a better series than s3 was. But the more I watch of The Mandalorian, the more I come to the understanding that it just isn't that great of a show. It's fine at best. And when you can see writing like in Andor, but their flagship series is The Mandalorian, there's some issues. Andor is not only one of the best Star Wars projects ever made (though more Sci-Fi than Star Wars), but also just one of the best shows I've watched.

I had so many issues with s3, most of which y'all have already touched on. Including the Guns for Hire episode. There were some ideas in that that could've been so interesting to explore. An ex-imperial leader, a royal, and a separatist, attempting to run a planet is a brilliant idea. It just didn't belong here, and Jack Black and Lizzo don't belong in Star Wars. Christopher Lloyd I totally bought as an old separatist, but I couldn't not see Jack Black or Lizzo.

Just so many missed opportunities, and when TD can just off the top of his head fix half the issues with the season, there's a problem. Star Wars and Disney have the resources to be so much better than what we got. And if they aren't going to take these projects seriously, how do they expect us (the fans, who know the world better than they do) to take it seriously?
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Lord_S_Gray
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« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2023, 11:30:21 PM »

Only several months late to this conversation, but I'm very happy to see that I'm not the only one with issues regarding this season. I just had a very hard time being interested in it. I'd even go so far as to say that Book of Boba was a better series than s3 was. But the more I watch of The Mandalorian, the more I come to the understanding that it just isn't that great of a show. It's fine at best. And when you can see writing like in Andor, but their flagship series is The Mandalorian, there's some issues. Andor is not only one of the best Star Wars projects ever made (though more Sci-Fi than Star Wars), but also just one of the best shows I've watched.

I had so many issues with s3, most of which y'all have already touched on. Including the Guns for Hire episode. There were some ideas in that that could've been so interesting to explore. An ex-imperial leader, a royal, and a separatist, attempting to run a planet is a brilliant idea. It just didn't belong here, and Jack Black and Lizzo don't belong in Star Wars. Christopher Lloyd I totally bought as an old separatist, but I couldn't not see Jack Black or Lizzo.

Just so many missed opportunities, and when TD can just off the top of his head fix half the issues with the season, there's a problem. Star Wars and Disney have the resources to be so much better than what we got. And if they aren't going to take these projects seriously, how do they expect us (the fans, who know the world better than they do) to take it seriously?

Well said Taegin, I think Andor's writing/scripting and overall quality really showed Mando up as wanting (of course Andor has a very different 'feel' as you note, but there is no reason Mando can't have its own themes with equal quality scirpting). They certainly have the sets/design/technical skills, and also the writing talent, for whatever reason that writing talent just feels like it was not brought to bear in Mando which is a tremendous shame.
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Lord_S_Gray

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« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2023, 06:42:57 PM »

Wait...BoBF wasn't Mando S3? Tongue
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« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2023, 01:19:47 AM »

Wait...BoBF wasn't Mando S3? Tongue

It sure felt like it.
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« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2023, 08:17:20 PM »

It sure felt like it.
Still haven't seen S3 yet. BoBF kinda left a foul taste. I couldn't give 2 farts about Andor, and I've been told that Ahsoka might surprise me.
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« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2023, 03:12:15 AM »

Still haven't seen S3 yet. BoBF kinda left a foul taste. I couldn't give 2 farts about Andor, and I've been told that Ahsoka might surprise me.

Andor is an utterly fantastic character driven science fiction show. It's not the best Star Wars though. Ahsoka is much better Star Wars, but has it's own issues.
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« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2023, 01:51:22 PM »

Andor is an utterly fantastic character driven science fiction show. It's not the best Star Wars though. Ahsoka is much better Star Wars, but has it's own issues.
What doesn't DSW make that doesn't have issues?

When I first started reading this I thought you were going to wax poetic about Capt. Useless-French-Resistance-Cliché. I couldn't bring myself to watch it simply because it was about the single worst main character that DSW has rolled out. And considering my hatred of the ST and all its lame characters, That is saying something. Hell...I didn't even find Adm. Holdo as nauseating.
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« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2023, 11:08:55 PM »

Ahsoka was pretty awesome. I haven't seen Andor yet(just kinda never made time for it) but it's next on my list to watch after Sons of Anarchy is done...
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« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2023, 05:05:14 AM »

What doesn't DSW make that doesn't have issues?

When I first started reading this I thought you were going to wax poetic about Capt. Useless-French-Resistance-Cliché. I couldn't bring myself to watch it simply because it was about the single worst main character that DSW has rolled out. And considering my hatred of the ST and all its lame characters, That is saying something. Hell...I didn't even find Adm. Holdo as nauseating.

Cassian is a great character in R1. As well as in Andor. And not to be that guy (except that I know you, so I will), but Diego Luna is Mexican, not French. Tongue
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« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2023, 03:15:41 PM »

Cassian is a great character in R1. As well as in Andor. And not to be that guy (except that I know you, so I will), but Diego Luna is Mexican, not French. Tongue
I know he's not French. But the trope he fills is the resistance fighter. And what is more cliche than a French resistance fighter? Sadly, that is the biggest problem with the vast majority of the DC (Disney canon) characters...they are merely tropes.

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