Saber Forum

Here is a repost of my utube comments on the Jar Kai video to respond and stimulate detailed discussion about the Reverse Grip:

Medieval longsword was often used reverse or forward with the same guards. It was only when blades shrunk and became closer to a foil that reverse grip was abandoned. Holding the reverse grip like a pike oftened pressed through defenses into a stright or ox thrust. Many Chinese arts involve the reverse grip with trapping and zapping and binding.

To develop your Reverse grip using a staff is very effective.

As for your reverse grip it takes mastery of a number of elements. Reverse grip will retreat when forward grip advances and advances when forward grip retreats. As a momentum weapon it is difficult to train without protective equipment.

The reverse grip is an interesting strategy with its many possibilities. I understand its not everyones cup of tea but I think it has its strong points. Its advantage/disadvantage balance makes it extremely dynamic and fluid. All eight lines of attack can be cut with two-handed reverse grip faster then the forward; though it does sacrifice reach the same could be said for a hook/uppercut. Boxing has a limited number of strikes and motions and yet is highly effective and efficeint - Just like reverse grip.

I think the ability to be flexible between both forward and reverse creates many more dynamic possibilities, draging out a duel is never advisable and if you can ask questions they are unfamilar with then you can overcome. Even experienced swordsmen have been known to be defeated by the unusual or the inexperienced.

As my master always taught - block to your natural side or redirect blind to natural. Your partner VorNach seems quite masterful in his high guard stance. If you are caught in a confined space occuppying the centre is critical. A left angle step backwards into a plow or ox guard should be used. If you lose an opponents blade with one guard you catch it in the other. Any attack can be parried and countered moving to VorNach left or binding into a trap and zap!

Reverse cutting with two-hands is as powerful as a staff in one direction and fluid and fast onehanded in the other. It has many resources and strageies for gaining and taking the intiative. In your demonstration your opponent was two close for a tail guard. An experienced reverse grip weilder would hold it either in a plow or ox or crown/roof guards. Your partner had your blindside and reach, both deadly advantages in time. To gain initiative or take initiative is essential in all forms.

If you can block one-handed you can block with a reverse grip. Reverse grip can be used two-handed as well as one-handed and can deflect and counter with speed and flexibility. If you have distance you can hypermodern your sword into an extremely cocked ready position and can even spin and turn your back. It is only a disadvantage if you can take advantage of the weakness. Reverse cutting with a lightsabre is particularly deadly in how it can reverse directions back along its line.

When you struck at your partner with reverse grip it struck his hand because his natural german longsword guard (Ox) did not deal with the reverse grips abililty to change in flight. For many years I have held my foil low and my partners have attacked. I have parried and followed up with a basic thrust and caught most of them unawares. Reverse Grip is a counterpuncher that can cut multiple times quickly; at the right time switching from forward to reverse is devastating.

As a momentum weapon it can wrong time itself if you are inexperienced and it can be difficult at first.

Holding the blade in forward grip, place a matress against a wall and strike all eight lines of attack one-handed and two-handed/cuts and strikes. Then repeat this process with reverse grip. The reverse grip is brutally fast two-handed and one-handed. To say reverse grip is inferior to forward grip is to say forward grip is superior to staff. "Hold the blade forward as you test and measure your opponents grasp of distance, time and the centre. Reverse the blade for the killing attack." - Master Lu

Reverse blade is deeply missunderstood because it is not perfected. Just as releasing the two-handed grip to slash or thrust at the right time is devastating; reverse grip is equally devastating momentum weapon like double-bladed lightsabres. Reverse grip can be held in the same position with two hands as the forward grip in a western style german longsword style. Reverse grip is the fastest cutting grip for all lines of attack.

Thankyou for your excellent video's - What are your thoughts and reverse grip theories?

Kind Regards
Bluesky

Which sources are you referring to?

Reverse grip is a very important tool; especially for form 5 as I understand it. Your practice will make all the difference. I suggested that the Matress test be used to practice and perfect your cutting with one hand, two-hand and mixture. This will quickly show an almost tidal rythem. Power towards the left and speed towards the right (Assuming right hand lead hand) Cutting flows and snakes and can adjust in flight into fractions of lines of attack.

Speed without purpose squanders any cutting advantage of the reverse grip/ one cut must lead to another. Every cut must have a purpose; even the simple task of striking the blade; a "Stahltest" (Ger. Steel test) reveals much about them. Are they like a rabbit running back at the smallest threat? Are they like a bull seeking to too flank quickly or run you over? Are they like a wolf circling just out of reach of the fires light?

Good basic drills:

(Practice each drill in Medieval guard positions: Ox, Fool, Tail, Plow, Crown, High)

Ascending/Descending both sides and with both orders of execution. (Follow the same line up and down)
Ascending/horizontal - Descending/horizontal
Horizontal/Descending - Horizontal/Ascending

Include Raking the blade back along its line without rotation (Effective especially with a lightsaber)
Include steping to all eight directions (Towards and Away)
Include striking a yeilding surface. (Matress)
Include a third cut to a unique, critical, creative target of opportunity.

Avoid wild swings; avoid binding and clashing (Remember no protection from them sliding down or up and cutting your hands off)
avoid advancing or retreating, forwards or backwards - use angle stepping; and avoid spinning as much as possible.

Trust guards; trust taking and gaining of the initiative above all else and finally enjoy many styles.

Kind Regards
Bluesky
(I hope this was informative)

Hello from Australia; love your work and enjoyment of the sword that comes out in all your videos.

A good place to start for sources if you are totally unfamiliar; which I am sure you are familiar I was thinking of others reading this.

http://www.thearma.org/essays/StancesIntro.htm (http://www.thearma.org/essays/StancesIntro.htm)
http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_arms_gls.php (http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_arms_gls.php)

"Fiore Dei Liberi's name for his craft of the long-sword, symbolized by four virtues or .... the sword horizontally in a high middle position with the left hand in a reverse grip. ....."
Not taking this quote out of context, (all my old photocopies need to be unearthed!) reverse grip is just as common in western as it is in eastern; it is unfortunate that much has to be relearnt and reconstructed from drawings and old manuals.

Out of J.Meyer:

Uebergreiffen.

Uebergreiffen ist also / Hauw von deiner Rechten zu seiner Obern Lincken Blöß / im Hauw aber greiff mit den Fingern uber das kreuz oder Schilt herauß / jedoch so behalt den Daumen an dem Hefft / unod? mit der Lincken Handt erheb den Knopff / und schlag in mit hangeter Klingen uber oder hinder seiner versatzung auff den Kopff.

Uebergreifen (=grapping over)

This is a cut from your right at his left high opening, while you cut grapp with your fingers over the cross guard, but let your thumb at the grip of your sword and lift with your left hand the pommel and hit him with hanging blade over or behind his dislacement at his head.

J.Meyer used this technique for a powerfull thrust.

As Hans Heim and Michael Huber indicated, reverse grip techniques are sometimes found in European swordsmanship. They also are found in at least some schools of Japanese swordsmanship (katana and wakizashi).

Talhoffer's 1467 fechtbuch illustrates quite a number of reverse grip techniques, in the sense that the point is turned away from the enemy and the pommel presented towards them. It's *not* the cliched "reverse arms to stab the bad guy behind you" move, in that one hand generally grips the handle while the other holds the blade, or both hands grip the blade, rather than both hands gripping the handle. Because this shortens the measure, it is most often seen in binding, winding and other ringen am schwerdt ("wrestling at the sword") techniques against an enemy in front of you. Sometimes the pommel or quillon is used as an attacking weapon, as in the mordeschlag or "death blow."

Finally: "The "Gladiatoria" is a rare manuscript from the mid-1400's.  It is one of the more obscure Fechtbucher and one which has not been examined at length before by pracitioners." - http://www.thehaca.com/Manuals/Gladiatoria/Gladiatoria.htm (http://www.thehaca.com/Manuals/Gladiatoria/Gladiatoria.htm)

These are just some quick reverse grip references I found with GOOGLE! The western swordsmen were just as experienced and flexible as the eastern its just that eastern movies seem to give it more of a look over. At the right time in the roof guard switch to reverse you might surprise them!

I learnt the hard way the efectiveness of half-swording; reverse grip and other tech of the medieval longsword against old-timers who used every dirty trick to thrash me up and down day after day. They used the blade every way possible. (Even grabing my sword!)

The jump from reverse grip Techniques into a Style is a different story; I see it as a strong complimentary/advanced style; at the right time it is deadly like all styles. Cunning often overcomes deficiencies; even a daggar is deadly if you get my point. :)

Many people when they think of reverse grip they think of this;

"Cut the  Hand

In this scenario you have the reverse grip and play long range as the opponent takes the reverse grip and tries to close in with the high stab. The reverse grip will force him to close, because he will be unable to match your superior range using the forward grip. You try to stay at long range, and look to evade and slash or hack the opponent's hand as he attacks. Against the downwards stab you slash across the hand with a backhand motion.  Imagine the defender striking, and possibly cutting off, the attackers pinkie."

Range is not the issue it seems to be here; a hook does not have the reach of a jab; should it be dismissed because you can slip it?
Reverse grips range is not that much less that you would say it is defeated?
Many tall Jedi have a range advantage; does that mean they can defeat shorter opponents?

Reverse grip has a clearly defined boundary; its momentum is both its strength and weakness. Every attack has its guard; that is the nature of things.
Reverse grip will continue to develop and I hope that it will grow here as well.

Some have brought up the "Ice Pick Block"

Practice starting in Plow with two-hands and every time you roll across and execute the block lunge at an angle away and counter. Let your angles baffle range. Some will argue that Form 3 is weak because it waits and defends; I would say counter attackers are extremely dangerous even if they are patient for a mistake from their opponant.

Thankyou for your interest - I hope this adds to the overall discussions so that reverse grip is not 'defeated!'
Once again thankyou for your wonderful and informative videos.

Kind Regards
Bluesky

Reverse grip is badass to watch. I love reverse grip, but it has a weakness that makes it near-useless in protected (armored) combat against someone who is proficient with Shii-Cho basics: Sun Djem - the hand/weapon/wrist chop. You swing your own hand/wrist/hilt through your opponent's blade for him or her all because he or she knew that your reverse-gripped swing was being led by your wrist, and the fight's over before you get a swing off. It's the Achilles heel of the form. For choreography, for sure go for it! It's awesome to watch it work when real fighting's dynamics aren't involved. I'm not against it at all; I'm sure a highly skilled and practiced duelist could sneak a reverse grip in a real combat situation occasionally and really take their opponent by surprise. Remember, I said it was near-useless. ;)

I am not a master with TPLA, but an online student of theirs. Just yesterday, I visited them in Ann Arbor MI, and they showed me for the first time just how real the armored combat was (hockey gear, etc., and fencing mask). I didn't have enough time to think using a two handed forward grip! Reverse grip would be out of the question for yesterday's application. I had my saber in forward guard and was only able to stop an attack in time once or twice. I'd say all Master Nonymous used on me was Shii-Cho and a little Makashi, and his years of martial arts training and skill. I'm a strong 35 year old untrained enthusiast, and there was nothing I could do to counter nor break his defense - it was awesome! Accordingly, I'm sure Nonymous's skill would allow him to prove everything you said above true if he were to fight me using it.  ;) However, to fight an opponent who's equal or greater than you using a reverse grip as your main hold would just be unwise, I think. I wouldn't have chimed in if I hadn't seen this for myself.  :)

Hi from Australia, just caught your reply; all good points. I have no doubt what so ever of the skill or strength of the forward grip and congrats for becoming a student. You are in capable hands to be sure.

Armour is good for practice but is an artificial environment. Only rely upon it for safty, not anything else is what my tip would be mate. If armour was a factor why not half-sword? ;D

Remember this for me is about its validity and any technique forward has its sister technique in RG. Near-useless I don't think so ;)

What if my horizontal cut changes suddenly into a ascending cut? RG loves fakes allot.

The hand/weapon/wrist chop - what would I do?

1/ If it is what I am thinking perhaps I would retreat having seen little hand flicks and attacks before. (There quite good against all styles)
2/ Try changing guards quickly with footwork, it will help you catch them; if you miss them with one line the circle parry will pick them up in another.
3/ A simple defense but effective is The Plow Strikes the Stone. Easy to learn and teaches your sparing partner wariness. Standing in the Plow with reverse grip there is nothing in your profile that looks different from forward. As they cut upwards/horizontal/descending at your hands/hilt/weapon. Step back and roll the tip around and up at their hand/weapon/ even if nothing happens if they rush into that buzzsaw then.... Because you have stepped to an angle and finished in the roof guard (Your second hand rejoining the lead) You have a great deal of options - The best at this point after they have decided hand attacks win all is to move again because if at first they don't succeed they might try try again. When someone loves a move they will often repeat it; teachers will also repeat things so that you learn to pick up patterns. Also teachers are drained by what they do and so will often have a 'teachers stance' - This is closer and taller then they would like you to be; this also gives them mobility advantages. If they are getting around you to easy; bring your stance closer and see if that helps.

Watch for repeatitions as much as you can. Moving and watching; that is in my opinion excellent for beginners.

Also when you are starting out don't try to move perfectly to form, just move and trust your instincts; you have excellent teachers there so if they do something that works; stop and repeat their move 4 tiimes quickly and then go on. don't try to think about just monkey see monkey do. In WW2 (I love stories by the way! :D) they found that some pilots under extreme conditions saved themselves creatively and the shrink studying them devised a creativity test. Give someone a brick and ask them to come up with uses for the brick in twoo minutes. Some are more creative then others but everyone can boast their ceativity.

Do something silly out of normal and your creativity can increase up to 15% Butter bread by buttering the plate and then plonk the bread on it and rub it on. Do something; out of normal reality; doddle, perform repeative tasks like having a bath. Put the tip of your lightsaber on the ground and run at them with the foot attack! Creativiity sees what your logic/left brain cannot. A fun way to develop your right brain (This is great for kids) is drill with an pirate eyepatch over your right eye! (The brain is crosswired)

Anyway I hope this helps Eerockk and I can tell from the videos your in good hands so happy sabering!!!

PS - As for your disllike of RG, that's ok, thanks for giving it some thought.

Kind Regards
Bluesky

Other than relying on armor for safety, I cannot disagree more. Armor actually makes it possible to do real technique at full speed making it more realistic. without it, you would need to seriously hurt your training partner. Unless you mean that sparing is an artificial environment, but that should go without saying.

Real people wore armor in fighting. Armor is one of the defining thing about Star Wars.  It does not make you lazy in your parries or make you more susceptible to being hit. Nor does not wearing armor make you a better swordsman because you don't want to get hit.

His point was that with armor you can go full speed and that changed the way he viewed how fast a technique had to be. One should probably learn their scales and chords before attempting Free Jazz.

And we can't half sword lightsabers.  ::)

Also, you are the only one taking an all or nothing attitude with the rev grip. I obviously do not have anything against it, yet, my arguments come back like I think it is all together useless.

Let me be clear:

I agree that the rev grip has uses. I agree that anything can be made to work. I agree that novel approaches often work where standard ones do not.

 I disagree that rev grip is faster than standrad grip in any manner of cutting with a sword or sword like object. I disagree that it is under rated. I disagree that it is anything more than a novel tactic to be used sparingly.

Basic physics is against this manner of grip to be used as a primary. Therefore it is a very low percentage tactic having a narrow field of application. Just as an uppercut.

Hi Bluesky,

You do make some good arguments for reverse grip as a means of enhancing a forward grip routine, and accordingly, you have succeeded in making me think about it again! I come from a musical/educational background, and in my experience, I've seen people accomplish the seemingly impossible with hours of practice and dedication. With the right dedication and determination, and with taking into account the automatic weakness of reverse grip and compensating for them, well, one can learn anything - again, I've seen it happen in music! You've succeeded in making me think about the merits of reverse grip again, (though even I can seemingly defend against RG attacks considerably more easily than forward gripped attacks), and I respect anyone that gets me to think about anything again that I've put in my mind's back burner. Cheers!

Enter the armor though... For half-swording, Nonymous is right; you can't grab your own blade using a lightsaber, at least to keep things authentic to the weapon. When I suited up in the gear and Nonymous and I sparred, the first thing I noticed is that I could swing my saber as hard and as fast as I wanted to - hard enough to cause injury! He was swinging likewise. I've never been in a combat situation that felt so real and intense in all my life. Without the gear on, it would have been a real fight and we would have been playing for keeps (I would have had a concussion after the first two goes - no word of a lie ;D). In a situation where gear is required to prevent injury, reverse grip puts you at odds with any hope at winning the fight, barring a lucky strike from a brave soul who would wield it! What I am apt to do though, is to challenge Nonymous again while using the reverse grip and have him remain using a forward grip. There's no better a teacher than experience, and to that end, I'm curious to see what happens. I couldn't get near him before using a forward grip, so I would like to experience the extra handicap a reverse grip would give to me. My only hope (no longer after he reads this) is to go at him with a style so friggin unorthodox that he can't read what I'm about to do like he could when I adopted a forward grip. (As soon as he realized that I was trying to fake him out, he launched an offensive throwing me into confusion, so he even has ways of compensating for his opponents' trickery; I hope you understand that you've just inspired me to undertake an uphill battle here). :) I know my gear will make any strikes I take painless, and therefore, I would only have experience to gain.

Hey man, sword fighting is a living art. The next steps to advance the reverse grip style are to try to overcome extra time it takes to swing a blade, and learn to cover the open areas it leaves open by default. Most forward wielders don't have to adapt very much to someone using a reverse grip with current practices, but could reverse grip compensate somehow for this? It would be unorthodox, but unorthodox methods can work too sometimes. Personally, I have my work cut out with forward grip material and reverse grip would seem to be far too advanced a form for someone of my current ability to take seriously. When I gain proficiency with combat, I would definitely consider incorporating a few reverse slashes in my repertoire - 100% promised there mate. For now, RG is just going to end the fight for me quickly if I use it, and I'm hearing seasoned and trained individuals stating the same thing goes for them too. I suggest incorporating everything you've mentioned into occasionally using them in a forward handed routine - switch it up to use RG only when your FW puts you in a position to do so. I do like reverse grip as I mentioned before, and it would be nice to see it used effectively and proficiently during a quick grip reversal in a spar.

Seriously though, try armored combat! You won't go back, or if you do, you'll see that it's way more intense than unarmored combat, and the lack of fear of getting injured makes for a much faster-paced battle, and when injury is removed from the mental game, the mind is free to concentrate on the battle alone. It's the closest thing I've ever had to being in a Star Trek Holodeck in terms of realism. :) I used a set of hockey shoulder pads, elbow pads, street hockey gloves, and a fencing mask. That was enough to make the attacks of Master Nonymous not hurt - most struck before I knew they were coming! I wasn't defeated in combat, I was shown how much potential I have and how far I still have yet to go, and that wouldn't have happened without that gear on. When someone takes something I've loved for over 30 years and shows me that there are still miles of proverbial roads to travel, well that's a good feeling! Wearing protective equipment for combat breathes new life in to this art man, and it's a must try!  ;D

Thanks again for discussing this, Bluesky! A form only grows when people take interest in it and keep pushing its limits.

Deep respect,

Erick

I've made mention of it before, but I'm actively working on solutions for both of these points.  I know my odds of success are extremely low, and I know that I'm more likely to discover my own strengths/weaknesses than I am to make any real headway into validating RG, but that's basically my goal.  I'm not quite ready to post what I've been working up yet, but I'm sure it'll happen in the not too distant future.

The only way to succeed is to do it! I'm sure what you come up with will look completely different from the Starkiller approach! If you succeed, awesome! If not, then you'll have learned how to better attack an opponent using a reverse grip against you. You have nothing to lose in that regard; you will be stronger! :)

It's interesting that you point it out in that way.  I've actually already found one huge weakness that nobody has mentioned yet (at least that I've seen).  I'll wait until I post my full thoughts to elaborate, suffice it to say that it's a tough one to counter.

I've been lurking for awhile now and I find this discussion fascinating. I use both forward and reverse grips all the time in my boffer matches, usually to try and get in close and bind my opponent. My sensei was a big man (6', 4"), but he liked to get in close rather than use his longer range. Much of my fighting style is based on this approach, and  most opponents have trouble with someone wielding 2 long blades getting up close. I have a video of the Portcon Boffer Championship Finals in which I was a participant posted on vimeo, (I'm the tall skinny guy with 2 blades in the first match) In it, I use both grips so you can see for yourself. The only reason I didn't advance farther was I forfeited a match since i accidentally hit my opponent in the face, even though he admitted it was partially his fault(Face hits are verboten in our matches). Here's the link: https://vimeo.com/45541638. Check out the other videos for ideas on fighting.

I understood that Armor is great for training, I would just once again caution over use; it can make you do things you would not do in real life because of no fear of failure but that does not mean you shouldn't have a good whack at each other. Anyway just food for thought. (I was kidding about the half-swording! Aussie humor sometimes doesn't come over, sorry!)

For RG it is important to play your game; if you are playing theirs you will be in trouble mate. Clearly mark your range and effective cutting reach and power like a sphere around your body. Obviously a lunge to the left changes that sphere; imagine your sphere is a faint yellow around your body. Quick sharp strikes like in Makashi at your head is not the RG way but if you hang around and try to out finesse you will be in trouble.

RG is like a boxer; it slips, it moves, it breathes constantly and circles like a boxer. Like I have mentioned it is tidal; power one direction fast the other. RG does not block hard, it is fluid; always countering and returning to guard.

I hope everyone knows that I only have disagreed here respectfully; I hope the tone of my posts reflects my love of the blade and its practice. I have tried to answer a great deal of posts mixing and matching answers and so I am sorry if it has come off as disagreeing; I am just trying to provide my thoughts and stimulate the development here of a true RG style. I have tried to speak here to many posts so that this thread is a more theory-heavy thread for those who love the history and the ideas behind the sword. Once you are training with a good master; there will come a point where without the theory you wont progress further; I have seen this time and again; talented fencers and swordsmen/women who have risen on talent/bodytype/skill only to lose to someone who is older and moves slower using angles and leverage. There is always a clash between the shield and the spear, one advances and so the other advances. If I cause you to face more people who suddenly switch in their roof guard from forward to reverse and power cut at your head then that will make everyone's FG evolve :D

Here are some important RG principles:

Once you are familiar with the 3 Attitudes (Angles of Attack: Descending, Ascending and Horizontal) Play with 5 Vital Principles of RG: Alternation, Flanking, Initiative, Guards and Faking.

Alternation: Changing sides and angles of attack means the traditional eight lines that they are used to facing and blocking don't occur. Instead of a classic horizontal cut they are blocking a H-cut that is angled down or up slightly causing unusual messages and problems. Altering sides weakens their center and gives you more time and space. Changing levels is the same as changing sides. Try not to clash and bind with RG; especially with a lightsaber. Allot of the movements that are used in metal swords just don't translate except in our imaginations!

Faking: Turn the previous drills into Faking drills. Because RG is a momentum weapon it likes to stay in motion once it starts. Use your shoulders/arms and cuts to open attitudes and then harness the gathered momentum into your redirected cut. Faking is a trick question that confuses and mistimes. Forward grip is fast and flexible and purposeful. To overcome speed and deceptions are powerful allies. Faking causes hesitation and doubt for the few moments you need. Slip one way and then move the other and do not think that because they are large they are not mobile and can keep up with your movements, big guys can move fast as the little guys.

Flanking: Standing feet together lunge to all 8 directions as though attacked in front and behind. Learn to move, recover, watch and move. then practice Angle steps, strafing and circling. Always move with smooth surefooted steps and then add faking only after your movements are effortless and graceful. TPLA teaches these things brilliantly. Do not trust forward and backward steps with RG. They should only be done consciously to lure and bait the FG into committing to their path. Move with every intention of flanking and running through. RG reach is not as limited as is often believed; make sure your full reach is harnessed.

Guards: Guards occupy the space; from them all attacks and defenses flow and they give you time to respond because they close one of the gates/quadrants of attack. Holding you blade low encourages attacks you can parry and respond to with great success but traditionally my old fencing teacher would be mortified. RG is an advanced grip that should compliment your FG, a Yin to the Yang. Guards strengthen your attacks and defenses and influence their choices. Study the Western concept of the Guard. The guards are the same FG and RG; there are differences bu they are all internal and where your power lies. Learn to know your fastest cut and your most powerful cut from every guard. RG will use two hands/ one hand and switches to FG to great effect as well as lead hand releases and rear hand RG! RG is not about flourishes and tricks and disarms (Or though there are many tricks) RG is positionally strong; boring, sound and powerful. Trust in your guards, always finish in a guard and always control the center. RG and the center is a whole other topic along with RG Thrusting.

Initiative: This is the most important thing to understand and use. One must always be in a state of Taking or Gaining Initiative. Understanding this was part of the genius of the Western Schools. If they are attacking. do not defend, attack their attack and turn it into your attack. If you are attacking, continue your attack and do not stop and lose your Initiative. If you are wasting time and energy you will neither gain nor take the Initiative.

What are your thoughts and what are your techniques that use these principles?
What are the most effective RG tactics and strategies?
Why are Guards so important?
What is the Gaining and Taking the Initiative for you?
What are 5 RG common attacks?
What causes grief to the RG and how it responds to this?
Is RG a Form 5 style?

Kind Regards
Bluesky

Most people think of RG in terms of appearance or its obvious weaknesses; can anyone spot why this is bad RG?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCDzZzx_xqU# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCDzZzx_xqU#)

Even this form has serious problems...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt9iUNdgfZA# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt9iUNdgfZA#)

The Chinese forward/reverse has many fluid techniques that allow a master to fight off more then one attacker and to defeat all other weapons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrtfH_VgGZ0#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrtfH_VgGZ0#ws)

Likewise in the west, battle hardened fighters clashed again and again and developed guards and cuts that were battle tested over and over again in a brutal Darwinian process.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj4Ng6DBfrg# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj4Ng6DBfrg#) 

The Reverse Grip was a advanced technique not taught to beginners; and was used to overcome at the right time more skilled fighters. With RG; try and duplicate these series of movements in the last video. You will find out the parallels and where things differ for yourself. Just as the Chinese seems flowery when it is deadly; RG has a darker, more practical side that comes out of a need to defeat a experienced player. I hope you have found this post interesting and the videos good content.

Now for some fun watch how fast and explosive these guys are: (LOL 2min in they take the time to film tying their shoe!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIKMPIFJkzk#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIKMPIFJkzk#ws)

Reverse Grip learns much from this....

Kind Regards
Bluesky

I have to be brief because of the hour.
I've takena quick look through some of the sources you cite and Firoe does mention a reverse gripo a few times but for a specifc purpose, under limted circumstances, not as a stand alone method of employing the longsword.

              "Posta di Bicornia:(“Two-Horned” position) Fiore’s thrusting guard holding the sword horizontally in a high middle position with the left
               hand in a reverse grip. Suited for thrusting in close. "


To say that some of the traditional German and Italian guards put the point behind you and present the pommel to the opponent and describe this as a historic version of Reverse Grip is somewhat disingenuous. There are a number of guards and transitions where the point is carried to the side or rear as part of an ongoing movement. However the combatant does not change the position of their hands  to a Reverse Grip during this movement. The mechanics of moving the sword while hold it in a reverse grip and when holding it normally are very different.

When holding a longer weapon (poleaxe, spear or hald sworded longsword) using a reverse grip with one hand on the weapon is an entirely different exercise than using reverse grip with one or even 2 hands on a saber hilt. Again the mechanics of the situation are very different with these exceedingly different weapons.

There are some references to a reverse grip in the HEMA source material but it's in a small minority of techniques and tactics with limited application, as opposed to the sweeping generalization that since it's mentioned it was used everywhere, extensively. 

You have access to some very nice historic sources, I would be interested in seeing any examples of your interpretations as they apply to the lightsaber as well.





The reverse grip was not applied at all (except for a little bit of halfswording in the Gladitores video).
Would you please elaborate on what you mean by RG learning much from these?




Safety gear is vital for everyone involved. Fear of failure means you are not practicing your techniques as effectively as you otherwise might. You are also putting your training partners unnecessarily at risk.
Fighting in armor does not mean there is no fear of failure, but a reduced fear that you will get injured by an accident.

Hi there from Australia!

Excellent points Master VorNach; Reverse Grip was only referenced as specific techniques for specific movements. Much has been a reconstruction process across Europe over the last 40 years because much is lost.

What I mean by the exercise of taking these movements in the video and converting them to RG was to show the distinct differences and parallels between FG and RG.

When you hold RG in the Roof Guard what are its strengths and weaknesses?

I was encouraging exploration and experimentation and that is what you find all across the world in many schools with all styles; including RG. I think RG as I spoke about earlier does cross the threshold from Techniques into a Style. I was not being false with my references; literally much is a matter of conjecture, fragments and sentences but I am confident with a full review of the modern histories that you will agree they were fully versed in all aspects of the sword and therefore had to have used reverse grip much like we do.

As for its use; Medieval sword styles used the blade in every way possible and I am of the opinion they used RG as much as in the Eest out of their core guard positions. There is much that is reconstructed from fragments that still remain and know from experience RG often appears in schools across Europe in the middle of a match. Obviously RG is a complimentary set of skills and techniques that marry nicely any FG play.

RG use of the Guards is critical to its success because it needs positional as well as tactical advantages to hold its own.

Thank you for your wonderful videos Master VorNach; and thank you for your comments. You correctly saw that the references are fragments but still it shows the mindset of the old masters did not limit themselves to only Forward Grip. I hope that others here add their knowledge about RG as well so that its theory does grow.

As for armor I see it as a important safety principle and I'm glad to see it; I especially loved that black chest plate you were sporting!

Kind Regards
Bluesky

I'd like to give a student's perspective of this.

How many times, VorNach, did you tell me to hit you before I learned how hard one could hit? I couldn't bring myself to do it the first three or four times. I had to unlearn a few things in order to pass that test; disable a few internal safety protocols. That wasn't easy! After the lesson, I was no longer 'afraid of making a mistake and hurting someone', it was go for his f'n soul! (I failed to capture any souls that day...). You can imagine that internal safety programming in my head is intense when my main saber use consists of defending myself against the attacks of a 4 year old. (MG initiate blades kill when they strike unguarded fingers swung by a 4 year old, for example). Before I tried fighting with gear on, I thought it was a novelty. I am now ashamed for ever having thought that. It gives new meaning to the school of hard knocks.  ::)

The gear isn't heavy nor cumbersome either! There was restricted movement over unarmored combat, sure, but it's not like I would have sank like a stone if I had fallen into a pool. A little gear in the right places goes a long way, and as you suggested, it isn't that much on Amazon or Ebay, and the used sporting good stores I know of are even easier to access and probably comparable to those sites as a starting point. I don't know how else to describe it, but fighting with gear makes this hobby something completely different, and that's in a good way. It's like this fantasy and love of Star Wars I've had for 30 years just became real. But it was true fighting, and it made me uneasy at first - intensity overload got the better of me a few times. Eventually, I forgot about the gear and started remembering your teachings. I still got my posterior handed to me, but all the same, I'm not going back to unarmored combat knowing this is possible. Makes the most intense video gaming I've ever done seem boring. I was sweating after the duel from the workout.

Of course it might have been the cold sweat of knowing that my master knew that I knew what he had in store for me, and that I was probably not going to be able to stop it.  ;D

If anything, the worst part about getting clocked hard in the head is how loud it is. It even makes a kind of *CHA* sound upon impact - sai-cha is aptly named. It doesn't hurt though. Gear does cost money, but not much, so that's going to keep even me from going out and buying everything at once, but I'll get everything eventually. The only valid arguments against buying gear is the cost, but consider how much it would cost to repair a few broken teeth, or worse? shell happens; it won't with gear. (It actually says that on the iconic bumper sticker that I quoted there - it's just really small).

Based on my recent experiences, I say that nobody who duels with LED lightsabers should resist using gear until they've at least tried it. Watch how all your training and forms digress to a basic and intense struggle for survival (maybe at first). We weren't keeping score during the duels, but let's just say I didn't have to. On the other hand, if my experiences had been an RPG, I'd have gone from level 3 to level 8 during my brief visit with what I learned.

Gear is way more than just safety.

The Budo of the Jedi

Hi there from Australia.

Thank you Master VorNach for your question about Historic Western Sword Theory/Practice as it applies to the modern lightsaber. I decided to separate it from my last post for ease of reading. Setting aside RG for a moment, though this has merits for it as well.

The light saber is a superior weapon; it is the pinnacle of the sword and the Jedi are the elite samurai.

The Budo of the Jedi is reflected in their weapon:

1/ The Light Side
2/ Knowledge
3/ Focus
4/ Defense
5/ The Jedi Code

The western approach was also one of honor and chivalry sadly lacking today with many schools ignoring discipline and respect at all times for the attitude of lets just have fun and whack each other! (This is just the personal opinion of a cranky old guy ;D) I like seeing young people saluting/bowing, showing focus and respect for their equipment, dress, teachers and the art they are learning. "The Jedi has a most serious mind!"

To answer your question Master the brutal efficiency of the Western approach is also paralleled in the Jedi supreme skill with the lightsaber. The danger lies in the fact that the metal sword has a flat, an edge and a hilt and the lightsaber does not. You yourself many times have spoken of this important difference. I know that the universality of its edge is often not accounted for as much as we would like to think it is.

Any pressing, redirection, deflection and binding must be under great scrutiny. What the old masters did was always seek to attack as much as possible; even while blocking. This as you know is dangerous because of sliding your hands right off. This is why emphasis must be upon Throwing, Beating, Scooping and Lifting in a dynamic mindset over a static positional play.

Example; with my Right foot lead I am using RG, (Could not resist ;)) I am in Ox (This is where the tip looks like a Ox horn pointing at their eyes; the hilt is back at my head and I have 2 hands upon it) They are in a High Guard (Sometimes called the Roof as well - Looks like it is angled over the shoulder. It does not have as many options as the Roof but is favored as a good starting stance) Their left foot is lead and so they are in a very strong stance as well. Both our blindsides are on the same side which makes for interesting play. Normally I would Blink-Cut them as they cut; their blade would slide down mine as my horizontal action deflected and cut at the same time. I would follow this with a straight or ox thrust depending on the strength of their counter.

Here's the Question: Can I execute my strong counter with a Lightsaber?

The answer is: Only if my lightsaber is plastic!

Many of the things we do with the western style must be adjusted or moderated. How can we do this? I have a solution that has taken me completely by surprise. Every chance you get as an attacker slide down and hit their hands. I train with gloves/ helmet and Bokken or western steel practice weapons. Taking off the hilt has totally changed the way I do things. If they leave their blade for even a second on yours that can be too late for you to pull away because of blade on blade stickiness allows their slide to get you. I would use my Makashi and love redirection as I flanked and then tried to cut and my partner would just flick up to my annoyance.

Many of my disarms, traps and tricks had to be completely thrown away as rubbish with a lightsaber, a clever wielder knows this. Great care must be made in all cuts and blocks with a saber. Through trial and error a few stand out things have emerged. I think we are watching the birth of a genuine true martial tradition here with the Jedi; it is not just a come and go thing anymore; you guys and others are blazing ahead. Your work and others have made the blade come alive again so that is amazing in itself.

If you are treating it like a traditional weapon then everything is fine; transpose techniques your gloves will protect you. If you are looking to use the techniques in the spirit of the lightsaber then everything has to be melted down and refined to very clear principles and tactics.

In the next post I will give you what I have learnt over the last 6-7 months.

Kind Regards
Bluesky

I'm definitely starting to come around Eerock; in my old re-enactment days I too loved the clash of armor but have since fallen out of love. What you describe though does sound like a highly effective thing because you can use your techniques as they are really meant to be used! You and Master VorNach are really changing my mind about this.  :)

Thanks for your kind words earlier and I would love to hear how you go using RG!!!

My RG tip is practice switching to it in your Guards and think about the use of footwork and fakes as I discussed earlier. yu are not going to trouble experienced swordsmen with it by starting with it. Practice switching in guard as you start to cut to disguise the switch; if you catch them napping you can use your momentum to open them up like a can opener. Also the video challenge I posted earlier where you convert Forward to Reverse will show you RG's limits and strengths. You will love some conversions and hate others...

Kind Regards
Bluesky

A Beginners Guide to Reverse Grip 1

Hi there from Australia!

If you can, practice these with a partner:

1/ Descending cut: (D-cut) into straight or ox thrust.
2/ Horizontal cut: (H-cut) into straight or ox thrust.
3/ Ascending cut: (A-cut) "He will cut from the roof; displace with power." One-hand right and two hands left.
4/ Displacing into Strike: Roll into the drop down block and roll back around into a beat down upon their blade both sides; both hands never release.
5/ Displacing into Envelopment: The attack is displaced with a drop block one-handed that redirects over the shoulder while the other hand rolls over their arm and tucks it under and the blade rolls over and cuts the head. "He has displaced with a turned hand and will step in front and wrench."
6/ Displacing into Push: High parry and rollover right - The high parry is done with two hands only to the left with the hilt: It immediately rolls to the right as you step forwards with your foot inside theirs pushing their elbow hard. "The thrust to the elbow the man shall not soon forget."
7/ Snake in the Fields: From Plow or Fool cut upwards. One-handed hilt to the right. "He had meant to run forwards with wrath and cut him through the head. This he has displaced from below up with power, and with his pulling up he has cut off his hand."
8/ The Plow Strikes the Stone: Standing in the Plow with reverse grip there is nothing in your profile that looks different from forward. As they cut upwards/horizontal/descending at your hands/hilt/weapon. Step back and roll the tip around and up at their hand/weapon/ even if nothing happens if they rush into that buzz-saw then.... Because you have stepped to an angle and finished in the roof guard. (It can be done two-handed one one)
9/ The Cat Chases the Bird: In Plow or Fool (Right foot forwards); Block with the back of your blade as it angles up and across guarding the flank from left to right. Follow up with a H-cut. "The bird cannot leave the ground before it is caught."
10/ The Pouncing Cat: As above the blade goes up and back across to the right injecting and deflecting and then because it has leverage it cuts down on their blade suppressing it. This can turn into a scoop left if you desire. Your blade is in pole position over theirs, to their perspective this is the back of the blade.
11/ The Charging Pike: Charge forward and thrust upward under their guard at a angle. Nasty, hard to block because of angles.
12/ The Deceiving Pike: Charge with the Pike Thrust and roll around higher and continue the thrust from low to high.
13/ Lizard Hides Under the Rock: From Fool do a quick lift strike up under their blade at their hands usually stymieing them around the center and then flank right and ox thrust around or disengage around and execute a D-cut. The lightsaber makes reverse grip even stronger; these are also practice with FG as a matter of principle.
14/ The Lizard Catches the Moth: Execute a higher lift from fool with what you perceive as the back of the blade as they try to react and counter your position high; drop and H-cut with your blade. Practice cutting both directions with a simple backwards angle step. (Like a side step where the leads change but over to an angle.
15/ The Burning Tower: From High Guard or Crown (Roof) execute a descending cut into their D-cut stepping forwards. Rolling and redirecting around to the right with a side step cut down upon their wrists/arm or Head.
16/ The Dancing Owl: From High Guard or Crown (Roof) execute a descending cut into their D-cut stepping forwards clashing. With the lead grab their hand with your lead hand and cross step right while thrusting. The blade maintains pressure as it thrusts lifting slightly as it moves. It is quite beautiful and elegant.

I hope you find these interesting and lots of fun; in Part 2 - More attacks and counter-attacks.

Print this off and practice it with footwork that suits your style and body type. Unless the drill requires it; move naturally and step as the motion encourages. I have found these basics built from the western tradition often will come up so see how you like them.

Which ones did you like the most?

I hope this is interesting to try with some new twists.

Kind Regards
Bluesky

I totally want to see the Dancing Owl! These are very enjoyable to read for sure and you've definitely put a lot of work in to this! It's enjoyable to read and imagine the moves. It's quite informative what you've posted, and I'm impressed with the amount of thought and effort you've put into this!

You are thinking of ways to overcome the shortfalls of guarding that RG is known for, and I have a feeling that these short comings are persistent from people knowing about them and not trying to compensate for them and further the form. The only was RG will be able to overcome these issues of defence is by people like you who would bravely forge a new path or work on the said shortcomings. Your perserverance and dedication will be the key to this, Bluesky. I say never give up!

I will now strongly suggest something as per my previous posts. In order to achieve the goal of overcoming the defence shortcomings, and less-powerful attacking that RG is known for, you're going to have to swing your saber with a speed and force that would injure a post box if it were alive, let alone some poor unarmored soul! If you do decide to ultimately not use gear, then at least gear the **** out of your training partner (just for training at least) cause you'd surely kill him/her with the gusto you're going to need to use to get to the level where RG is a threat to a FG user. Again, never give up, Bluesky, and if you gear up a training partner, take advantage of the protection (ie. knock the bum into next Tuesday - he/she won't get hurt!)  ;D

Are you able to provide any working examples of work you've done so far with the form? Your passion for the form has definitely piqued my interest! And not once have you ever come across as rude or frank, man! No worries there either! It's nice to have someone discussing a form with such detail and determination. Thanks, and keep up the good work!  :)

This is a great point!  Also one of the reasons I've only been able to spar using my RG work on a few occasions.  It does require a lot of very unorthodox thinking and with that comes a much higher risk for mistakes.   Granted we learn a lot from mistakes, but they can be painful.  Especially the way I'm working with it, which involves a lot of tactics that, unfortunately (but for good reason), would be illegal in most sparring matches.  :(

What would be illegal and why?

And we are waiting to test anyones reverse grip tactics.

The Budo of the Jedi 2

Hi there from Australia!

The guards are a important positional advantage that cannot be overlooked that closes gate/quadrants, controls the space/center, and creates advantages in time and the initiative.

Two knights advancing towards each other. One starts in the Fool and the other in the Tail. As they advance the crowd notices that they are dancing, changing from position to postion. As they draw closer they centralize more and more until finally they face off each other. One in the Ox guard and the other knight in the Plow. The Ox is a very strong guard, in reverse grip it is strong one side and fast the other (Hilt to the right like the Form 3 Obi wan stance)

The Knight turns his Ox guard into a thrust and then side-steps into a H-cut. The Plow is very strong in the centre and blocks the first thrrust easilly but cannot counter in time so must block the H-cut. The knight with the initiative decides whether or not to thrust with another ox around their blade or with a straight thrust by the weakness they sense from their opponennts block. Did the first thrust weaken the second block?

He thrusts with a angle step (Side step at a angle forwards or backwards) and the oppossing knight cannot retreat and so must advance to bind. This advancing momentum is then used by the knight to pivot him over his hip onto the ground and the crowd cheers. Of couurse this was all staged and most battles don't even last this long.

The Jedi have to refine their techniques and ideas so that they are quicker, crisper, and much more efficient. Because of the fact that the lightsaber has no hilt changes much and reveals the wisdom of Form 1 - Simple, powerful, clean defense and attack makes sense with a lightsaber. "Know your Self."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0OLlYLB2fA# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0OLlYLB2fA#)

Beating: Double hitting a blade prevents their ability to stick, slide and measure. This defense can throw off opponents who like to be in control and like to play around with their blade control.
Throwing: If they strike and stick throw their blade away from you and down giving you mechanical advantage over their blade.
Scooping: This is like a throw that continues on around and down.
Lifting: This is seen when luke faces vader in return of the jedi. The lift is a attack/ block that displaces people trying to occupy the center. Fool is a good guard known for this.
Sliding: If they press; slide and attack their hands.
Winding: Taking the initial blow roll the blade around and over displacing their bladeso that you throw their energy away from where your hilt would be.
Deflection: This is where you hit their blade with a parry that redirects them away from the centre injecting energy into their blade.
Blocking: High, Middle, Low and Circling Parries are the most practical and at any time they can turn into any of the above defenses.

I would advise that if they give you energy; use it but avoid as much as you can blade stickiness. Throw them, beat them, block them and if they try to bind flank or use these to have a powerful sense of blade control, not finesse but purposeful crisp actions. "Do not fence a knight." - "Know your enemy."

All it takes with a lightsaber is one blow so using strong blade control and the guards will give you a sense of fighting on your terms. The jedi does not fight their game and seeks every positional advantage possible. The harsh realities of the western sword styles was if it did not work brutally why use it?

Blade control/Blade testing: If you are against a superior opponent attack their blade every chance you get; stop trying to hit them, attack their blade. Like surfing take every wave as it comes and trying not to think too much, just relax and feel the rythem of the engagement. You will find better opponents will be annoyed with you and want you to attack them or stop moving around and attacking their blade because they want you to overextend, mistime, and be drawn into their wheel house. Attempt the defenses above and never let them bladecontrol you. "Know the terrain."

Mistiming: The chinese/japanesse/korean sword schools are masters of mobility and mistiming. Imagine we are dueling with muskets, if I cause you to fire and miss, I can walk up and fire. They stop, start, pause after a attack, jump, cross step and flick their blade knowing it takes very little to defeat someone. Animals play a big part in their teachings like for example the monkey. You might think its antics are amusing until they kick you in the shin or hammerfist you in the face. The monkey misdirects and fakes them out and can absorb fierce attacks. Learn to step one way and then reverse or strike one side while moving to the other or implying one atttitude when you are really just provoking a reaction like a boxer pooching his head forwards. I would enjoy moving forwards aggressively only to retreat/parry/thrust you would be surprised how often this works. Sport fencing is excellent for fitness and mistiming. A pause can be as useful as a attack. TPLA teaches these things very well from what I have seen. "Deception is the art of war."

Guarding: "Control; you must learn control!" - The positional advantages of the guards and knowing how to use them for control, defense and attack will allow a greater mechanical advantage over your opponent. By simply placing your blade at a angle it can move slower and still defeat the fast because of mechanical advantage. RG being the Yin to the FG Yang has some deficiencies that require understanding. Bill "Superfoot" had an extraordinary career but could only kick with one foot. RG is only powerful one way/side and the other side flicks and is fast but cannot hold positions with force. This does not make it weak it makes it unusual like old Bill "Superfoot." His number one techneque was actuall a slip backwards, he used it time and again to tremendous effect to chamber his superfoot! Guarding gives all styles their substance; they are like the bones of combat.

I would love your feedback and your tactics and strategies! Happy hunting!

Kind Regards
Bluesky

A Beginners Guide to the Reverse Grip 2

The techniques that flow the best work the best with the RG.

If you haven't read through part 1 then I highly recommend it so that these drills come naturally to you. Emphasis is placed on footwork and cutting control with precision in mind. Playing to the RG's strengths.

If you do not completely follow a earlier post has good links to guard positions or you can just google them for yourself.

If you have any techniques to add please do as well as any questions about the descriptions I am happy to clarify if you message me ;D

Drills Contraire 1-9: (French for hostile, opposite and contradictory)

1/ The Mating Frog: In Fool, Plow or Ox guards, roll the blade up if necessary and across your centre into a right drop block while at the same time side steping left. Fuild, and in control the blade may not even initially come in contact as it rolls into its D-cut. Play with this cut; Wrist, arm, head and the powerful D-cut that contorts the two-hands on the grip cutting from left shoulder to hip. To learn this cut hold the blade in a high parry with the hilt to the left (Two-hands) Cut right to left and return back, now continuously cut left to right returning each time to high parry. When using two hands with RG they both should be pointing knuckles in the same direction like rowing a boat. Jump and say "Ribbit!) That will throw them ;D
2/ The Clubbed Foot: With the blade in the Tail guard, left foot lead, the blade is pointing backwards! This is a emergency technique that surprises them because no matter how hard they strike they draw the tip of the blade at their face. Can also be executed from High into Plow. Swing the blade around into Plow while the left foot pivots to the left! Sliding is a issue here for lightsabres but it is too simple and efficient to leave out. You can do many things here the most simple is step forwards and thrust. The hilt must be held low as the Plow cuts around Practice from high as well as tail and relax as much as possible.
3/ The Falling Log: You are in Ox guard the hilt left with two hands on the blade, they are in High guard right side. Lunge to the left as they execute a D-cut even leaning away as you execute the D-cut left to right rolling over as you learnt before. It finishes in a low Fool to the side of your leg, once this is competant, execute a two hand A-cut up under their wrists, arms or if they have leaned which is common split them straight up. The Rotten Log is a variant that angles the lunge slightly forwards or backward and stops the cut at the target.
4/ Stealing the Crown: Starting in fool while they are in crown; Lift into Ox left with the horn down right foot forwards and side step to the blind side as it rolls over right and around over into the cut. "Taking the crown requires nimble fingers."
5/ Advancing into Thrust: From the High guard right side (2hands) they are doing the same opposite you; step frowards and cut and then advance into a straight thrust or ox thrust or Ox/Straight to bait and then pull back and reengage with a thrust. This is best execute when you initial step is not perfectly forward but to the flank, a angle step.
6/ Blink Cut: It is fast and deadly and interupts their plans and is H-cut across the eyes. Done right to left with two hands and one of the gems of RG left to right 1 hand on the grip. It rolls and flicks out and so often as not interupts their plans because the "The Threat is more powerful then the execution."
7/ The Barking Dog: From two high guards both D-cut and then from the rebound energy the blade rolls around and cuts up at their hand and wrist. "Don't bite the hand that feeds you." It rolls 1handed and is very fast and effective.
8/ The Running Dog: This is exactly as above but after your clash one or two quick retreats gives your space and battle persective. Good to set them up thinking you are a rabit when really you would love to charge through right or left and cut through.
9/ The Wagging Tail: From the Tail guard step forwards with a power H-cut right at their stomach, advance into a straight or ox thrust and press right in. The Tail obviously need space and distance but you will work it out. Instead of a advance you can lunge as well.

Switching to RG is effortless and its mindset will ask new questions of your opponent. More to come; enjoy and discuss your results and enjoyment. Take up what is useful and discard whatever you don't like.

Consider these Flow Drills like any other drill; train until they are easy before moving on and repeat them quickly by returning quickly. Share the fun if you have a partner!

Food For Thought and Tips

Don't fight by their game.
Use angles and footwork.
Know the RG like you do the FG.
Be patient and don't try to switch to RG straight away, develop a big bag of tricks first; especially the basics!
Use armor and really let loose.

Thanks for reading this; here is your RG fix!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyH0lmP4N7Y#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyH0lmP4N7Y#ws)

Kind Regards
Bluesky
(I love the Dancing owl as well!!!!)

I've been inspired to accelerate my timeline and started recording my work with intent to post rather than reference.  I'm hoping to have it all done by Saturday.  I go over a lot of this in it, but one of the main techniques that I can see being frowned upon in sparring is a pommel strike to the head.   

Pommel strikes to the head are legal in SaberLab full contact rules. Even with light contact. We just don't score them. As long as you are wearing a fencing helmet or other protection. With full pads, there isn't a lot that needs to be illegal. You can make them illegal to make the match play out a certain way, but otherwise, you can go full on to any protected area.

WEAR GEAR >:(

Fair enough.  I'd always assumed gear would be worn.  What I wasn't sure of was how well a fencing helmet would stand up to an aluminum hilt instead of a polycarbonate blade.  Especially in a thrusting situation.

What about a Kendo men? I'm sure you could take a brick to the face wearing one of those. The three blade mask should be OK to withstand it too though.

That would probably work really well.  My only concern would be the space between the bars being too large and letting a blade through.

The gaps look to be around half an inch or less, so the men will be perfect. Smash it with a pommel for that telltale clank sound too!

The three blade variety (foil, rapier, saber) is the type of mask TPLA introduced me to. They could definitely take any hits I delivered... I may be new, but I can put my back into a swing! Google 'three blade mask' for what I'm talking about. The men is stronger, but they seem very expensive in comparison. I suppose one pays for the extra strength.

The coaching versions of the three blade mask have leather or cloth coverings and preserve your opponents' blades from being scuffed and damaged by impacting the hard plastic of the regular version. I'm considering that version so I won't have to voluntarily buy Masters Nonymous and VorNach new blades for having wrecked them off my head. I guess I should just learn to parry properly and avoid being hit as much as I can. I'm not worried at any rate; this fighter is still under construction.  ;)

Hi there from Australia,

In most of my experience they are not allowed in sparring because bashing hits like that can cause damage even with armor - that is why you see many medieval weapons being bludgeoning/spike weapons. This is also why half-swording is so effective against armor.

I am pleased to see it is not used during sparing, very sensible; TPLA :)

As for strikes with the pommel they are a natural part of all sword training after you have mastered the basics of cutting, moving and defending. At the right time it is devastating but it is not as important as the rest; I would refer to it my friend as a specialty technique within the style. More important would be if they tried to press their leverage against you sliding up their blade and taking their hand/lightsaber. Pressing and binding is extremely dangerous with a lightsaber.

As for the right helmet it depends on the intensity of the sparring, even for light sparing having a heavy armor can be practical. As with RG to keep it on topic, is a powerful thrusting style within its limitations (Straight and Ox and Pike and Rakes and Hooks) much like a praying mantis; (I have a giant one in the back garden right now!) I would definitely wear solid protection for safety and as I have realized so that you can play with full commitment. (Modern armor definitely has its advantages for saber sparing) The RG naturally punctures armor because it can generate so much force. For example; execute a D-cut from crown onto a mattress with both hands on the hilt. Roll around into a Ox thrust and puncture in. You will feel its ability to really drive home a thrust - This is why armor is especially important in sparring.

A Kendo mask can take allot of punishment but so too will a stick fighting helmets.

I am looking forward to posting more basics so that everyone can cherry pick what they like. At the right time in the engagement the reverse grip can be very good to have in your tool bag and many of its principles cross over into FG.

I am looking forward to see your videos, I am not in a position to create videos right now but would love if you could demonstrate these basics Eerock or anyone else interested.

Thank you ;D

Kind Regards
Bluesky

Bluesky, you were asking about naming guards in another thread.
We have labeled our footwork, attacks and guard positions in our various videos.
This one will have some of what I think you were specifically asking about, our interpretation of most of the German guards:
http://youtu.be/lvc5UNH8PUw (http://youtu.be/lvc5UNH8PUw)

Would you please clarify what hand position(s) you are referring to when you are talking about reverse grip?
Some of the discussion has been about relative position of the wielders blade and pommel in relation to the opponent and some has been about the position of the hands on the hilt.
I want to have a clear view of the various elements we're talking about.

The Beginners Guide to the Reverse Grip 3

Hi there from Australia,

The Guards, Hilt Positions, Cuts and Grips

The side and position of the hilt are important to describe when visualizing a guard. Adding grip content is more tech information they can work out for themselves but I like to include it because I try to be as detailed as possible. For RG the differences are often mentioned because the RG is a unique mixture of two and one-handed positions. Thank you for asking this clarifying question; I was thinking it was becoming necessary so that the techniques make sense to those unfamiliar with the Guards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Oci-ZLpQUk# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Oci-ZLpQUk#)

Using the guards with RG is vital for its efficacy and development. I recommend if you don't know what I mean by Plow, Roof/Crown, High Guard (Roof over the shoulder) Fool or Ox: Here is a easy place to learn.

http://www.thearma.org/essays/StancesIntro.htm (http://www.thearma.org/essays/StancesIntro.htm)

For example take the Ox Guard; one of the soundest guards for RG and FG:

Rightside Ox Guard: The tip is pointed at the eye of the opponent with a slight inward angle, the hilt is by the head/ear (Even higher) on the right side. On the right it is one handed for speed and flexibility and natural body mechanics.

Leftside Ox Guard: The tip is pointed at the eye of the opponent with a slight inward angle, the hilt is by the head/ear (Even higher) on the right side. Both hands are on the hilt.

The Guards

1/ The Fool: Both hands on the hilt/close grip; point on the left forwards and on the right side down and too the side. On the right it is also called a Half-Tail.

2/ The Plow: Hilt centralized this is a strong middle guard that turns into a throw or scoop effortlessly.

3/ The Crown/Roof: Hilt over head blade angled away, two hands on the grip.

4/ The Crowned Ox: Ox guard but with the hilt over the crown of your head.

5/ High Guard: Two hands on the hilt usually only over the right shoulder. Execute like throwing a right hand. Cuting down should always finish in the Plow or roll into the Ox.

6/ The Tail: On the right both hands are on the blade and it is pointing backwards and one the left only the lead right hand is upon it. attacks from this are like drawing attacks.

7/ The Attack Guard: Thrust the blade forwards at their eyes. One the left it is one handed and is forward from the Ox guard. On the right it is extended with two-hands on the hilt. As you thrust forwards with the left attack stance the hilt naturally rotates to the left to create and natural wedge/angle.

8/ The Ox: Create the horns of an Ox, one hand on the right and two hands on the hilt on the left.

Practice guard transitioning and control as your fundamental skill.
Practice each guard and learn that when the hilt is in most guards you can use one hand or two but in some it is one one or the other.

The Grips

Wide Grip: Holding both hands with knuckles in the same direction like you are rowing a oar. Wide grip is powerful but less flexible and sensitive.

Close Grip: Holding both hands with knuckles in the same direction like you are rowing a oar. Close grip has the rear hand closer to the lead. (Lead is usually right hand) This is the proper RG style grip. (It is the best balance for RG but it is really up to you to discover what you like)

Released Grip: Releasing the lead for reach and sweeping distance attacks are highly effective. This includes the rear hand using forward or reverse.

Lead Grip: Refering to the lead grip alone on the hilt - More descriptively called one-hand.

Cuts: The 3 Attitudes

1/ Descending Cut (D-cut): Cutting downwards at an angle.
2/ Ascending Cut (A-cut): Cutting upwards at an angle.
3/ Horizontal Cut (H-cut: Cutting left to right at varying angles and lines.
4/ Straight Cut (S-cut): Cutting up and down the middle line down the body.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMmudi8Np9U# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMmudi8Np9U#)

Notice the pivoting like a boxer...

Kind Regards
Bluesky
(Hi master VorNach, good insights on the versus staff V's Duel swords thread; I have posted a response that compliments yours nicely I think)

Hi there from Australia ;D

For the proper terminology go to this video and see if you can match the traditional names I have been using with the Star Wars equivalent. I've always felt the place for RG was in Form 5 as a Complimentary choice.

WOW! What a great video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvc5UNH8PUw#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvc5UNH8PUw#ws)

Use this as a template with your RG along with the slight variations that are part of the conversion from FG to RG!

This video is excellent and better then anything out their because it is so clear cut. Thank you Master VorNach, it really shows what I am talking about from the FG, exactly as I am recommending. Thank you. I will post a conversion table over to these terms soon.

I know you did not intend this to be a RG tutorial but it serves nicely!

Kind Regards
Bluesky
(Your Guards are solid Master VorNach! ;D)

Advanced Reverse Grip 1

These Techniques are really for those already practiced with the basics.

"Solide Kräuselungen" - Sound Ripples

Using the strong and weak and sliding and binding all makes their own sounds, Learn to differentiate the different sounds. Along with this learn to read pressure and move with it like water. Its uses are surprising!

"Klingenringkampf" - Sword Wrestling

This is dangerous with a light saber. Kick, punch and throw your opponent.

"Blitz-Sturm" - Lightning Tempest

Blitz-sturm is a simple block breaker/ sword breaker/ hooked cut that is even more devastating with a lightsaber. Its an old master technique not found anywhere unless you are in Europe and they are trying to throw you on your arse or you pose a series threat to them.

How does it work?

After you execute a D-cut right to left with two hands on the hilt. instead of releasing. Rake a D-cut or H-cut A-cut left to right. This can turn easily into thrusts as well!

To start; move with forward steps cut/rake/cut/rake/cut/rake. It is powerful and vicious cutting with the front and back of the blade. It doesn't need to recover it just rakes back like you are hitting with the other end of a staff. Add a side step to amplify its effects. It will hit their block so hard they will often fold into themselves or drop their blade.

I am including this only as an advanced technique because it is powerful and should not be over relied upon by any beginner.

"Schatten-Spiel" - Shadow-Play

Cutting and then changing into a different cut or thrust disengaging them without any touching. Your shadow makes them defend and guard and you pull in and thrust or rake or cut. The 3 Attitudes cast thousands of attacks like German shadow puppets.

Even with blocks you can cast shadows because they will tend to pull back to cut again or continue their motion as you move and mistime them.

I would appreciate if you have any techniques and thoughts about these advanced techniques/principles and share them with me ;D

Kind Regards
Bluesky

Intermediate Reverse Grip 1

Footwork is the key to victory; there is attack; there is defense and then there is the right way. The sword is both art and science; to begin with it is art and then it must evolve into a science of geometry and precision.

Rythms of the Dance

Every step is best practiced without a blade and once they are fast and smooth like a stone skipping over the water around a circle then add the blade and your knowledge of RG. When you understand these dances intuitively all of the basics you develop take on a whole new dynamic tension.

From the Dance any basic technique can be initiated changing direction, speed and intention. RG flows and maintains its tension upon the center keeping its perfect distance. RG is a Mid-range fighter in the goldie locks zone of power and speed. Learn to move before adding attacks and defenses. "When Competant include the Guards into your Dance!"

1/ Quarter Turn - "Vierteldrehung"

Eight steps complete the circle. When the right foot is lead; moving right step with the right back and over to South East and the left follows to face the center. To move right again the right steps forwards along the east direction (From starting position) the left follows and aligns east. From the starting position facing north with the right as the lead leg. Step with the left forwards to the south west and the right aligns behind. To continue left; the left foot steps back to the west and the rear foot steps forwards aligning west. This can continue as you will note all the way back to the starting position whichever way you go.

2/ Half Turn[/u] - "Halbe Drehung"

Facing North right foot forwards; moving left; step with a kick over to the west cardinal point with the left forward and the right swings around becoming the rear foot aligning west to the center point. To continue around the circle the next cardinal point is north. The left springs back to the north point and the right swings forwards aligning north facing the center. A half turn blind side is refered to as a blind half turn and a half turn to your onside is called a onside half turn. All the half turn is is a quarter turn that steps a cardinal point; a deeper flanking step.

3/ Swallows in Flight - "Schwalben im Flug"

Step across to the quarter cardinal point with the opposite leg to the direction you intend. Starting right foot lead; step to the south west point with your foot facing away and your back to the foe; pivot around with the left becoming lead and you are aligned to the center point correctly, a tiny spin, very simple once you get it. Also called a spinning step.

With your right leg lead to execute the step to the right, cross step with the rear left leg to the lead position south east and spin around naturally. Spin and stamp the right leg when it aligns with the south east point facing the centre. Now continue this around the circle. "Step, Pivot, Align."

What is it good for? It is fast, flanking and simple. Remember to pracitce the dance all the way around! Left leg lead is obviously reversed but the same.

4/ Dance of the Stag - "Tanz des Hirsches"

"Speed gains true advantage of position. He attacks and is lost after his completion of movement."  Starting right leg lead make sure to step to south east with the right leg or south west with the left; same leg, same direction. Follow with a cross step and then spin around finishing either east or west facing the center. Each step and cross step finds the next cardinal point and circles quickly spining to stop facing the center.

Once you are comfortable and quick going all with way around both sides. Step; Cross step spin and align; the stag will just as often turn back to where it has come. For instance, step right with the right foot the cross step finds the next point stepping behind and intstead of spinning into alignment. Spring bakc to facing north; but you will notice that your left leg is now lead! Also called a quarter and a half spinning step.

5/ Bird of Prey - "Greifvogel, Raubvogel"

Also known as the mis-direction step. Step with the same foot as the direction you are heading. With right leg forwards; step to the right quarter the south east with a slight lean and slip but then with the same leg; in this case the right; cross step bakc the other direction with the other foot following and aligning to, in this example the south west. The rihgt become the lead if it was the faking step and vice versus.

6/ Dragons at Play - "Drachen am Spiel"

Lunge to the center with the lead foot; the rear foot steps over to the cardinal point and the lead recovers along the alignment. Work your way around the circle both directions and then switch lead. Shifting weight is essential here. This is useful to all saber duelist of all styles.

7/ The Gliding Crane - "der gleitene Kran"

The Gliding Crane is long; weight shifting and graceful. The angle is moved to effortlessly. Step back with a rear lunge/slip, a slight lean is also fine. The lead foot seeks out the quarter point left or right and the rear foot shifts and springs forward into the lead position forming the stance. "Don't rush from the stage of just moving with your guards."

8/ Snake Hides in the Bamboo - "Schlange versteckt sich im Bambus"

also called a snake or slipping step. The lead leg steps left or right and the rear slides over. practice weight shifting - starting with your weight forward shift it back step with the lead to the cardinal point and slide the rear over.

9/ Monkey Steals the Blossom - "Affe stiehlt die Blüte"

Cross step to the blind side with the rear foot; don't be afraid to lean and then spin around and align with the quarter point. Lean in like a monkey plucking a flower! once you are at south east or south west, lunge and recover with the lead foot. Also called a blindside step into lunge.

10/ The Running Fox - "Der Betrieb Fox"

Advance forwards quickly and then retreat quickly. The point is to provoke their reaction and exaust them with distance. The secret to the Running Fox is that it wont always retreat back where it came from! It will retreat to south east or south west! good for set ups.... Practice it forwards and backwards left and right with both left and right taking turn at being the lead leg.

11/ Dance of the Mongoose - "Tanz des Mungos"

Imagine following a circle sliding your feet around in the mud, to quote a recent TPLA video, Now speed up your circle walking and then pivot and change directions faster and faster and even lean in for reach. The mongoose is a very fast animal and will be so fast it will get the snake from behind! Consider practicing with your eyes closed and feel with your feet.

12/ Rabbit Escapes the Snare - "Kaninchen entgeht der Schlinge"

Aslo called a rear cross step. Cross step backwards with your lead foot and then spin around into the opposite direction to your lead foot finishing on the east or west points. "Speed of escape can bring swift victory."

13/ Lion at Play - "Löwe am Spiel"

Weight on the front leg, rear heal off the ground. Drop your weight back and lunge and recover quickly. The Rear leg springs forwards and pivots around facing south. The rear has become the lead as you spin around facing south.

14/ Crane Attacks the Ape - "Kran nimmt den Affen in Angriff"

A slow advance and then a fast Cross step into the opposite direction of the rear foot. IF the left is rear then cross step right. with the lead leg shifting over to the next point, if it is right it would be east and left it would be west.

15/ The Swaying Cobra - "Die beeinflussende Kobra"

Lunge backwards and slip (Lean) lunge to both angles and slip and always return your rear foot where it started.

16/ The Assasins Knife - "Das Meuchelmörder-Messer"

Blitz-krieg; the lightening war; Charge left at an angle and right at an angle. "Breaking off the Dance!"

Helpful Tips

Take your time!
Be patient and read and do the example first.
Do the dance with your partner; men learn to dance better when we are trying to impress a girl !
Teach your kids, they will work the circle faster then you!
Relax if you don't understand something, go to the next movement and stay limber.
Practice shifting your weight back and forwards.
Ask me for any help.
Don't mix the basic attacks and defenses with your footwork until both are proficient.
Film yourself and study yourself.
A mirror helps.

Kind Regards
Bluesky

Reverse Grip Perspectives

I have shared many techniques here to play with with more to come: In a way it is allot to take in and break down and practice. I try to break what I do into numbered movements, points and titles because it all can become a blur together. That is what is so awesome about TPLA - It breaks everything down video by video.

Reverse Grip does not have the same balance of power and speed as forward grip but it does have much to offer; it is definitely a fertile field.

There is still more to share but I wanted to say just eat the Elephant one bite at a time; don't look at all of the posts and try to absorb it all, I record my discoveries over years of trial and error - Writing down your techniques and thoughts grows your skill tremendously.

If you can successfully combine the circle with the techniques of the Reverse Grip I think you will find you can really use it at will.

Reverse grip is a complimentary style for me; FG should still have precedence but if you can use the RG practically you can propose really challenging questions.

I recommend printing out these different sections together if you really want to go over them and then as you work them out tick them off and add your own thoughts and expansion upon their ideas.

There is still many things to cover; what are your favorites and what need further explanation?
What are your RG techniques? (Even if you only have one or two please share them here - If they don't have names come up with something funny and creative so that it is easy to remember)
What do you think of them so far?
What do you think of the Rhythms of the Dance?
What are the weaknesses and what techniques can cause RG grief? (Any specific RG killers will have their own counter in either the footwork or the technique or the advanced concepts)
Are you using the guards with RG?

It is always a matter of perspective. Does FG even need the ability to use RG? For me RG is a natural extension of Form 5 practice and development. Even if you are new and inexperienced; learning the principles and ways of the RG will enrich all other practice.

Also I leave the German Longsword names in for fun; many are only seen if you go to their school and get clobbered by it.

It is important to remember everything given here has its complimentary weakness. For instance I spoke of blade control. Obviously if you attack my blade and not my body I can disengage and attack. Blade control often requires their attack and energy to then be redirected or thrown back at them. I don't recommend binding and clashing like you see in the movies, you can do a simple winding motion and they slide right off and away, of course you must watch for any technique that slides their blade towards your hand!

Maybe everything I've said is terrible and wrong! Perspective is a fluid thing; test what I have said and see their place and timing in things. An old hand likes new ideas and theory and can adapt them to any situation.

Kind Regards
Bluesky

I've enjoyed reading about your perspectives with this and other forms here on the boards, Bluesky. I have a lot of material to work on using forward grip, and I must concentrate on that before I can work on other things - that and my rudimentary footwork skills. I distract too easy on my own, and you're not making it any easier on me here with your detailed posts! :D

Check out TPLA's live show this evening to get an idea of what I need to work on - it's on at 7PM Eastern Standard Time - if you can't catch it live, they always post it later. I suppose if I take care of my business, I could always take care of some pleasure afterwards. It's a hoot holding a saber in RG, but yesterday, my son reminded me of its limitations in strength and in defence. On the other hand, since he's 4, I normally take a defensive-only posture with him and let him have a go at his old man. His 24" initiate blade can push my RG-held blade aside with seemingly little effort; he can't budge my saber in FG on the other hand. Because of the difficulty in blocking even a four year old's attacks with a RG posture, (he swarms and crowds me - smart kid), I use it often for the challenge and for the fun. (He has more fun when he makes his daddy enact dramatic 'deaths' after a hit).

Business before pleasure for me though... I have a trial that's fast approaching!

Reposted by request.  See this thread (http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=12930.msg202344#top) for full discussion of these specific ideas.

Intro:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1whSKenZ1ak (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1whSKenZ1ak)

Observations:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21Q5nGHoLFI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21Q5nGHoLFI)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLqek_o227c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLqek_o227c)

Strong Guard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg7rzhMTvpY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg7rzhMTvpY)

Weak Guard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXxXASgI8is (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXxXASgI8is)

Power Guard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkFhnMf0gZc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkFhnMf0gZc)

Serenity Guard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=538ibD784O8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=538ibD784O8)

Tactics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TNbqJIdkz4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TNbqJIdkz4)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9BATfPUImE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9BATfPUImE)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HgJk85rsOU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HgJk85rsOU)

Closing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciZAJ-LDmLc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciZAJ-LDmLc)

Dulon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7s9AJOg2wE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7s9AJOg2wE)

All forms and styles start somewhere...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVKrBMepQQ4# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVKrBMepQQ4#)

Kind Regards
Bluesky
Well done Oramac!

The Serenity Form, Oramac Guards, and Tactics Walkthrough 1 - INTRO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1whSKenZ1ak (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1whSKenZ1ak)

No formal training is as much a good thing as a point of weakness.

1/ The name of your form is what I love about the Code.
2/ It is interesting and the beginnings of effectiveness for your ideas. Ideas evolve and are like genes; your writing is like the genetic code of your theory. The videos the proteins ;D Writing everything down is very important because it crystallizes and helps universalize your ideas.
3/ The Dulon fully expresses its ideas; that is worth being proud of right there; also your even handed tone and explanation was really clear and easy to follow. Well done!

You have clearly put allot of time and effort here with a whole ocean of options for you to dive into and explore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8leUqNJY1M#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8leUqNJY1M#ws)

I would love everyone to use the Oramac Guards with this footwork and feel how they interact. I bet that everyone is going to have allot of fun!

1/ Basic CAP Footwork with Oramac Guards (Sorry the name just stuck in my head) Use his hand motions to create your high and low guards.
2/ D-cuts, H-cuts and A-cuts and then the continuation of the dance. Cutting from stance.
3/ D-cuts, H-cuts and A-cuts during footwork.
4/ Footwork with deep breathing, slow, stretching and gaze control. (Focus your gaze into a weapon)

Kind Regards
Bluesky

The Serenity Form, Oramac Guards, and Tactics Walkthrough 2 - ELEGANCE

Understanding flows from how you practice internally, mentally, physically and spiritually. When things are done right they look beautiful and natural. I wrote this because how we perceive a thing changes that thing. Change how you think and the form will look completely different ;D

1/ Simplicity
2/ Comparison
3/ Balance
4/ Flow

Simplicity:

Simplicity is harder to achieve then one would initially imagine. Less ideas expressed are not a bad thing in Form work. You clearly realize your ideas and themes; they are easy to reproduce and not overly complicated. Simplicity often means efficiency, no wasted movement, control of the space and time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aGvJW-0lcg#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aGvJW-0lcg#ws)

Comparison:

Comparing what you do with someone else helps us grow in many ways, Comparison is a way of short cutting the process of experience. Many forms are too busy, they don't express their ideas to their natural ends and they add too many chefs in the kitchen. Take for instance the Sun Dog form; though it has a few more themes and ideas then yours it basically sticks to its ideas. It tells us something.

You have shown real creativity, originality and single-mindedness. It took will to achieve this and that is a whole other strength. Learning to see say an exchange of 6 moves and then assess it correctly comes from constantly visualizing, thinking and learning. Try going over the Techniques I typed up all in your head! Comparison and assessment is part of detachment from the board; don't move until you see it!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNVWY5jUIbc#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNVWY5jUIbc#ws)

I can't wait to compare your theory with my own so that I learn from you.  ;D

Here is the Comparison form:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCHv2X-RpC4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCHv2X-RpC4)
Thank you for this wonderful form to compare too. Also the young guy is why I think lightsabers are the future.

1/ What are the differences between your form and this form? Anyone?
2/ What have you learnt having compared?

Balance:

Balance and control is often internal awareness, breathing, weight distribution, reach, height, abdominal tension, relaxation, stance, counter balance. I found while doing the serenity form that it pulled me off line sometimes and I had to stabilize until I got used to it, also you pause and show good control over each action. Give the balance test a go by trying to duplicate these basic movements. If they are no challenge move on to the transitions. Balance for me should be reflected in the Serenity form because it is for beginners. I can tell that your awareness of the internals needs to grow but that like wine takes time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUuex722DY4#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUuex722DY4#ws)

Or for more of a challenge...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE4g4dL2LrA#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE4g4dL2LrA#ws)

Flow:

Pause, breathe into your center and control; flow is the end in mind. Flow is when everything connects and it becomes total presence and joy in the moment. Your flow emerges from repetition and time; all good things take time. A strong exhale and inhale coordinated with your movements will help your Flow. Your form has good flow potential which I look for, any stiffness or unnecessary tension works itself out in time. One trick is to watch yourself in a mirror/ video or listen to music while you work the form.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1l5m-h6Ugo#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1l5m-h6Ugo#ws)

Tomorrow I will go over your Guards. I hope this was informative and interesting ;D

Kind Regards
Bluesky

Hello, its been awhile since I've been on. Anyways this post has 3 pages so far of comments so I apologize beforehand if I echo a lot. Anyways onto reverse gripping. I am as a few know a very huge hema advocate and longsword instructor. Reverse gripping can have its place in time with the right mental set up. Per se a kurtzhau that is performed but fails has a opportune moment of rging, winding out and short edge striking. Its portrayed in Meyer , codex wallerstein, and talhoffer a bit and is always under constant observation and trials. That being said striking with intent leaves boo boos so to protect better from them a good sturdy fencing mask and full finger gloves work. We have a few different masks in my fechtschule, AF fencing, blue gauntlet, dwarven smithy. For $50 you can get an amazing fencing mask from blue gauntlet, otherwise if you wanna spend 100$ or so AF hema has amazing hema fencing masks that are made for that extra kick. Gloves I use a hockey glove for my forward hand and a lighter glove for my pommeling hand to stay maneuverable. Sheesh sorry long post but cool topic.

Hi Stargazer from Australia ;D

I was just about to log off and I caught your post :o

Great to read someone familiar with what I'm talking about. There is enough examples of RG in most guards; also from experience you know there is almost always one or two who throw it at you in the middle of sparring.

Here's my RG questions for you ;D

1/ What do you think of the theory so far? How can you help refine it, explanations of guards and so forth?
2/ Can you add your RG Techniques using your definitions or the traditional ones?
3/ I'm sure you will recognize most of it, the ideas are transitional between FG and RG. I have a philosophy that RG is the yin to the FGrips yang. Have you used similar footwork and tactics?

Thanks for your thoughts and comments.

Kind Regards
Bluesky
 

That one has significantly more flash to it.  Much more "looks cool" stuff.  Also, obviously, it switches from and to FG.  Third, it's got more direction change.  That said, it doesn't appear to have any defense involved at all. 

Definitely a good comparison.



Dude.  My legs don't bend that way.  lol.  Not gonna happen.  I think my knee would explode if I tried those.  However, I definitely see the need for balance, and improving it.  I'll probably use the Capoeira video to work on balance more than ballet. 

As always, thank you for your thoughts.  I like that you include video to demonstrate your ideas, though I sometimes have to read it twice to understand.

I am assuming you have all seen our Form Five videos with the rev grip being utilized:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfBsuvDeKk4#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfBsuvDeKk4#ws)
The rev grip starts at about 2:00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJbFwRY50nY#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJbFwRY50nY#ws)
Both I and VorNach use it here. VorNach with Jar Kai.

Hi there from Australia ;D

Thank you for this; I actually considered this video for the comparison test but I was worried Oramac and others might have already seen it so I went with one of my Favorites online. I wanted something unknown to better explain the theory. I like to test myself to guide myself forward ;D

This is a good video; thank you Master Nonymous ;D (I liked how you demonstrated throwing in your Shii cho: the beginning video! For some reason you hardly ever see it! My RG techniques has a Move "The Rusty Hinge" that uses it! I think you will like it ;D)

Yes exactly right Oramac; in chess they are constantly reviewing other people's games. This trick helped me years ago to expand my experience well beyond practical experience. Watching competitions in many fields opens ones eyes greatly ;D

It is easy to dismiss the more internal aspects but I assure you that is the path to rapid advancement. Take for instance the Balance exercises (Ballet); I was shocked when I tried them how incompetent and knee inflexible I was :'( - (Started the greeting the sun Yoga stretch soon after!)

At the time I had an over inflated sense of skill - After this frustrating the hell out of me I realized there was much I neglected because I just liked when I started whacking people :P (I guess that's how allot of us start)

Take something like Flow; impossible to really define and yet you know it when you hear it, see it, and do it. This intuitiveness is essential to my Jedi studies; I want to feel my weight shift, sense what they are doing from contact and so on. When I saw and heard the video I posted for flow I felt inspired, inspiration is part of flow, a knowledge of yourself is flow. When you teach a young person and see them having pure joy and focus all at the same time you know you are really bringing them into the moment and influencing their future as a happy adult. Teachers take few accolades but are so very important. Learning how to learn by watching others and visualizing is important but nothing replaces teachers and friends. Family, friends and teachers are what life is all about...

Whenever I post Theory/techniques, I would encourage visualization and mental consideration before any practice. It will serve you well ;)

Assess these two opponents: I'm glad you watch the videos because they make my point, they are interesting and fun and I love the world of swordplay!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt7I6H4kNPQ# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt7I6H4kNPQ#)

More Walkthrough to come ;D

Kind Regards
Blue Sky

Intermediate Reverse Grip 2

There is a distinct difference between these Complex (Compound) Techniques and the Drills that are practiced in the Beginners guide.

1/ Basic Techniques are exchanges/counters that are like a question asked followed by your answer. They teach the guards, leverage and control of the distance and timing.

2/ Complex Techniques use the Reverse Grip in real time in a continuous exchange/attack. They emphasize mobility and blade dynamics. These combinations of attacks/defenses can be unleashed on your sparring partner (Make sure you are both armored) while they learn to defend each attack.

Combination fighters train to wait for the right time and then they overwhelm with power, speed and footwork. I have thrown these at people and they project a great deal of threat and force.

"Circling presents the opportunity..."

Which ones do you like?

Catching the Thief

Starting in the Crown Guard (Left leg lead)

(Where the cut finishes is prioritized, this means it starts right)

1/ D-cut Left (Forward step – Right takes the lead)
2/ H-cut Right
3/ H-cut Left – Spin behind right until facing backwards with a D-cut Right – With two hands on the grip…
4/ A-cut Left – Stepping into an angle step forward and to the left. The blade rolls around into…
5/ Power D-cut straight down from the Crown – Finishing in fool/ Executed with a forward step.

The Glaring Reflection

Starting in the High Guard (Over the right shoulder – Left leg lead)

1/ D-cut Left (2 Hands
2/ D-cut Right
3/ H-cut Left
4/ Lead Forward Spin – The lead left leg steps half way back towards the rear leg facing backwards; it can even at the start step back next to the rear leg with it turning to face backwards as well. As you spin around clockwise the goal is to finish with the left lead again. The right leg that spins forward can vary the speed and reach of the spin by how forward or back it plants and the left follows through naturally.
5/ D-cut Right (During spin)
6/ Forward Spin into
7/ H-cut Right
8/ H-cut Left (Stepping forward into horse stance – 2 hands - The right leg takes the lead) 
9/ A-cut Right – The lead leg (Right) opens its face forward with an advance – The Blade finishes in an Ox position, no follow through.
10/ Rake back into a Left Tail and then advance with another A-cut. (Follow through into Crown)

The Bolting Horse

Starting in Fools Guard Right – (Left leg Lead)

(Distinct feature of the Fools guard on the right for Reverse Grip is that with both hands on the pommel the blade points across and to the right side but on the left it is pointing forwards – In Forwards Grip this is called a Half Tail; Fool’s Guard in Forward Grip is forward left and right sides)

1/ D-cut Left (Forward Step – Right takes the lead)
2/ Rear Forward Spin – The rear leg steps forwards and next to your front foot both end up facing backwards. (From here one can back kick) Spinning clockwise the right foot takes the lead again. Flowing into…
3/ D-cut Right
4/ A-cut Left – (2 Handed)
5/ Step backwards into Ox Guard Right – The left takes the lead.
6/ Charge 2 or 3 steps forwards (running pass also) with an Ox thrust into…
7/ High Parry (All while Charging) into D-cut (straight at the head) – Stop at the head into…
8/ H-cut Left

The Strong Wind

Starting in the Fool’s Guard (Left Leg Lead)

1/ D-cut Left – Stepping forwards into Horse – Right Taking Lead
2/ A-cut Right – Quick Advance into lunge while…
3/ A-cut Left
4/ Recover back into Ox Guard Left – (Right leg lead)
5/ Rear Forward Spin while executing a H-cut Right all the way around clockwise and finishing in a Squat Stance (Feet are square as you finish in a squat, the blade finishes naturally one handed on the right)
6/ A-cut Right – Stepping forwards with the right leg
7/ Lead Forward Spin (Right foot pivots back half way pointing backwards; the rear steps forwards facing backwards as you spin anti-clockwise)
8/ H-cut Left - All the way around into…
9/ Side Kick

The Biting Fly

Starting in Ox Guard Left

(Right foot lead)

1/ H-cut Right – Stepping Forwards (Full commitment)
2/ H-cut Left (One Handed/Left hand cut) – Stepping backwards/releasing the lead hand; the H-cut finishes pointing backwards. (Cutting with the rear hand and stepping backwards)
3/ Retreat into Crown guard
4/ D-cut (straight) pulling in…
5/ Lunge with the lead (Right foot) while Releasing and thrusting with the rear left hand right at their hand/solar plexus. Lean for extra reach.
6/ Recover into Plow Guard Left rejoining the lead hand back to pommel.
7/ Lunge with the rear leg into a Thrust with the rear left hand releasing the lead right hand. (High or Low lines)

The Ceremony of Two

Starting in High Guard Right – (Left lead leg)

1/ H-cut Left – Stepping forwards
2/ H-cut Right
3/ H-cut Right
4/ H-cut left
5/ A-cut Right – Stepping backwards (Left takes the lead) Powerful/ Let it rip like pulling a lawn mower!
6/ Step backwards into a Retreat while you…
7/ D-cut Left into Fool Guard Left
8/ A-cut Right (One Handed) – No follow through/stopping at Ox position/ Tip pointing down at their eyes rebounding down to the right into…
9/ A-cut Left – Stepping forwards at an angle to the Left – (2 handed)

A Sense of Danger

Starting in Tail Guard

Left leg lead (Close stance/Relaxed) – Two hands on the Pommel

1/ A-cut Left – (Right takes the lead) Stepping forwards into…
2/ Rear Forwards Spin while…
3/ H-cut Right (Finishing with Right leg lead/Spinning Anti-clockwise)
4/ A-cut Left – Finishing in Ox position
5/ Step Backwards into…
6/ H-cut Right flowing into…
7/ H-cut Left – Stepping forwards (Right retaking the lead)
8/ Switch to Forwards Grip without withdrawing the blade after its h-cut.
9/ A-cut Right (One hand) – Stepping forwards
10/ Roll over your head into H-cut Right – Roll over into Crown
11/ Straight cut at the head that pulls in so that it disengages to thrust at the throat.

The Provocateur

Starting in the Plow Left

(Left leg lead)

1/ Parry the middle into Plow Right into...
2/ H-cut Left – Stepping Forwards (Right takes the lead)
3/ A-cut Right (one handed) – Roll around into…
4/ A-cut Left with Advance
5/ Rear Forward Spin (Anti-clockwise) into…
6/ D-cut Right
7/ A-cut Left
8/ Step backwards into the Ox Guard Right
9/ Step forwards into H-cut Left
10/ A-cut Right (One handed) with an Advance into
11/ D-cut Left
12/ Step back into Tail

Kind Regards
Bluesky

Intermediate Reverse Grip 3

Each Set of Complex Techniques has distinct themes and messages, a good thing to do is see how many themes emerge for you ;D

Reverse Grip needs to fully harness its potential; (attacks more then defenses) half measures rarely work...

The Whirling Dervish

Starting in High Guard Right – Left leg lead

1/ A-cut Left – Stepping Forward (2 hands) – (Right takes the lead)
2/ Lead Backwards Spin – Step backwards with the right lead Anti-clockwise – continuing the spin the left foot becomes the lead as…
3/ Releasing the pommel with the lead execute a A-cut Left with follow through into the Crown Guard.
4/ D-cut Left – Stepping forwards/Hutt Slide
5/ Lead Forwards Spin – Spinning Anti-clockwise – Don’t continue the spin with the right stepping through; let the left become the lead.
6/ H-cut Left – Release the lead hand and cut with the left rear hand/ All this from the spin around into the Crown guard.
7/ H-cut Left (Neck) The Blade rebounds back into the Crown guard
8/ H-cut Left (Hands) Rebounding back along its trajectory into the crown guard.
9/ H-cut Left (Knees) Rebounding into Crown guard.
10/ H-cut Right Release/Sweeping cut with a quick Advance like swinging a chain back around over your head but don’t stop in a guard continue into the next cut/ All one handed with the rear hand.
11/ H-cut Right – As above with a quick Advance (Both cuts at the Head)
12/ D-cut Right – One handed continuing the energy of both previous cuts. Quick Advance…
13/ Ox Thrust Right – Still with only the rear hand attacking the blade rolls around and over and out at them while you lunge. Recover stepping back into the OX guard left.
14/ Lead Backwards Spin – Step backwards with the right lead Anti-clockwise – continuing the spin the left foot becomes the lead as…
15/ H-cut Left – Release the lead hand and cut with the rear.

The Deep Winter

Starting in Crown Guard – Left leg lead

1/ D-cut into Plow
2/ High Parry Left – The hilt is to the left of the head.
3/ D-cut Right – Release the lead hand and cut with your left hand. This is one of the reason RG with two-hands is best held with the rear close to the right on the pommel.
4/ D-cut Left – Stepping forwards (The right leg takes the lead but the left hand remains alone on the pommel) Finish in Fool Guard Left
5/ The right hand returns to the lead grip and the rear releases as you execute the next cut.
6/ A-cut Right – (One handed) Rolling around into…
7/ A-cut Left (Switch to Forward Grip)
8/ H-cut Right Stepping forward and around pivoting behind and releasing the rear hand to cut spinning clockwise forwards finishing left leg lead.
9/ Step the Lead left leg backwards into a lunge chambering the blade behind you. Twisting and loading. Left hand plants on the ground.

The Water Rat

Starting in The High Guard – Left leg lead – one handed

1/ D-cut Left – Lunging with the Right leg.
2/ A-cut Right – Still in the lunge recover as you execute. Finishing in the Crown Guard. Switch to the Forward Grip.
3/ H-cut Right – One handed - Lunging with the left leg. Rolling over into…
4/ D-cut Right – Advance
5/ H-cut Left – Side lunge left power cutting left with two hands on the pommel.
6/ Switch weight back to the right as you High Parry Right (Pommel on the right)

The Desert Fox

Starting in the High Guard – Left leg lead

1/ D-cut Left – Stepping forwards – Rock back onto your rear leg as you cut into the Plow Guard.
2/ H-cut Right – Stepping forwards (Left leg takes the lead)
3/ H-cut Left – Switch into forwards grip
4/ D-cut Right – Stepping forwards the right takes the lead – One handed.
5/ High Parry Left – Pommel left side (Still one hand)
6/ Lunge into Thrust into low line/disengage Thrust into high line

The Cautious Warrior

Starting in the Tail Guard – Left leg lead

1/ D-cut Left
2/ D-cut Right – Lunge through with the right leg
3/ A-cut Left – Recover forwards rebounding back into…
4/ H-cut Left – Advancing keeping the pressure.
5/ Step back into OX Guard Right – De-pressuring pops the balloon so to speak. The left leg is now the lead.
6/ H-cut Left - Right leg lunges forwards/Blade with follow through.
7/ A-cut Right – (One-handed) Recover and advance. Roll up and around into…
8/ A-cut Left (One-handed)
9/ H-cut Right - One-handed (Target: hands/weapon)

Kind Regards
Bluesky

The Beginners Guide to the Reverse Grip 4

I have shared these Beginner and Intermediate Techniques to give context to what I will say in the Serenity Form Walkthrough and to add to the body of Theory. If you use or teach the Reverse Grip; these fundamentals will help you to diversify your choices and lessons. If you are unfamiliar or gave it a go but struggled with it these should give you a deeper understanding. If you already are very experienced with the Reverse Grip then these should add to your repertoire.

How you use the Reverse Grip needs to organize all of your body and blade around it. Using Reverse grip does not exclude Releasing or Switching back to Forwards Grip; in fact RG specializes in Asymmetrical warfare. I believe RG is the Yin to the Forward Grips Yang; what do you think? What are your RG techniques?

Kicking Down the Door

1/ High Parry Left against D-cut
2/ Front kick
3/ D-cut (Straight

The Sleeping Fool

Starting in High Guard Right – Left leg lead

1/ D-cut – Arm/hand with quick Advance

The High Yoke

Starting in High Guard Right – Left leg lead

1/ Step forwards into the OX guard displacing their cut.
2/ OX thrust - Head

The Low Yoke

Starting in High Guard Right – Left leg lead

1/ Step forwards into the OX guard displacing their cut.
2/ OX thrust – Drive the thrust down into the plexus.

Fooling the OX

Starting in High Guard Right – Left leg lead

1/ D-cut stepping forwards – They respond with the OX guard – Before making contact roll the blade back and around and up into…
2/ OX thrust Right – Stepping forwards with the left leg retaking the lead.

The Clever Fool

Starting in High Guard Right – Left leg lead

1/ D-cut stepping forwards – Releasing the lead arm as you side step left.
2/ Thrust into Ribs with the left hand only.

The Slippery Ice

Starting in the Fools Guard Right

1/ A-cut Left rebound into…
2/ A-cut Right: Side step Left.
3/ D-cut Left: Side step right – The blade rolls down and around over into the cut.

The Rising Sun

1/ D-cut Left – Lifting their blade into…
2/ High parry Left
3/ OX thrust
4/ A-cut Right – Running through Right

The Setting Sun

1/ D-cut Left into Plow Left
2/ H-Rake Right
3/ D-cut into Fool Left

The Sickle Moon

1/ D-cut Left – Stepping forwards
2/ D-Rake Right – Stepping forwards
3/ A-cut Left – Right side step

Kind Regards
Bluesky

I can imagine the moves as you describe them to a degree, Bluesky. I'm still trying to get the difference straight in my head between an A-cut and a D-cut. I can definitely see throwing one or two of these moves in to a FG-heavy routine to gain surprise. I can say that speed and strength would still need to be the focus of any RG move, but I'm starting to see it in my head now. My plate is still full with my current projects (and basics/fundamentals), but cheers for keeping this discussion here alive.

Maybe I can't do the moves described, but I am enjoying the reading and the thought you put in to this. Any way you and/or a mate or two could demonstrate a few specifics from a post like the above? Maybe read the heading (move's name) and then perform the swing? I think I need to see this in action at this point. Oramac's post did this for me and have helped me follow along a with these posts a little more comprehensively. Right now, I'm seeing which of these could be transitioned into from a FG attack most effectively for the old 'surprise! you didn't see that coming, did you' moment. Pretty cool stuff, man!

I agree with Eerockk here.  I'm having a hard time visualizing some of those examples.  I see the cuts, but not how it all fits together.

The Beginners Guide to the Reverse Grip 5

The guards are constants, which leg is in the lead is a constant, the cuts and thrusts are a constant. If anything needs to be clarified please quote it and I will rewrite and develop the explanation. Thank you for helping me refine this; I am giving this my best although I know it needs allot of work, thank you. 

You are doing great; the point of the theory from my end of things is that RG really is not as developed as it should be and writing it down carries much weight. Videos though are excellent in and of themselves. I have friends all over the world who will be getting this and their school in their language so I hope to play some small part in RG development.

Even if you never use the RG I hope the theory has its universal applications ;D

When you visualize, (An essential mental skill to gain experience rapidly – Don’t move until you see it!) Look for the constants:

Does it step or does it ground?
Is it defending/responding to something or is it maintaining its initiative by not giving them time to respond?
Is it attacking from guard or returning to a guard?
What type of step is it using?
Is it Cutting/Thrusting/ or Cutting into a thrust?
Has it released the lead or rear hands?
Has it switched back to Forwards Grip?
Is the blade rolling at all? For example; I execute a High parry Left (In the case of blocks/parries the direction indicates which side the hilt is on) I fell their pressure trying to enter bind and I Roll it over to the right with my tip down into a drop block right. The tip rolls up and around into a D-cut. What makes this especially effective is the side step left.

Writing theory is its own challenge; as you follow in your mind and become unsure; practice the movement up until where you are stuck and reread it. If it still does not make sense it is probably my format or description. Every time I need clarification, please ask me because I am happy to tinker with this.

The only reason I don’t use the wonderful examples developed by TPLA is I am trying to make it universal for every school and in a language that is universal. Descending as in descend the stairs; Ascending as in Ascend the stairs; Horizontal as in walk across to the window; and Straight as in climb out the window and use the fire escape up or down!

OX Thrust: Exactly like the OX guard only thrusting.

Straight Thrust: No rotation with the edge straight up and down; the right hand seems to hover over and the thrusting power comes from the rear hand.

Released Thrust: The lead releases for reach of the thrust. This can be either an OX or Straight thrust.

The Reverse Grip attacks all 8 lines of attack. Imagine that you draw over your opponent an astrix; counting clockwise:

1 is their head straight down.
2 is their left shoulder down to their right hip – Descending cut Left (Where cuts finish from our perspective explains the line of attack)
3 is their Plexus to waist band across horizontally – Horizontal Cut Left
4 is their Left hip to their right shoulder – Ascending cut Left
5 is their groin to their head – Straight cut
6 is their right hip to their left shoulder – Ascending cut Right
7 is their Plexus to waist band across horizontally – Horizontal Cut Right
8 is their right shoulder down to their left hip – Descending cut Right

When you cut Right to left it is easy to use 2 hands and when you cut left to right one hand is often preferred so that it can roll around for the next assault.

Each Cut tells you where it will finish and where it starts by its finish. D-cut Left has to start by cutting downwards so which shoulder does it hit? It must logically hit the Right Shoulder down to the left hip. The finishing side tells you all you need to know as long as you know what a D-cut is.

As cuts and thrusts attempt to strike you they must be exchanged for your thrust or cut to steal their initiative. Many Forward grip practitioners try to weapon/hand attack using their reach and speed of angles in their cuts OR expect their natural attacks will strike and allow binding and jamming up. Both sound ideas if the wielder of the Reverse Grip is unorganized and just allows them to dictate the terms of surrender.

In the movies Reverse Grip is often just used one handed and with little proficiency in attacks that bear little resemblance to combat. In actually combat one must often be brutal and clinical.

Take for instance the Iron Gate. It can be done with your eyes shut; it is not fancy; they can try to misfire it or reverse the cut but someone with a modicum of practice will is it coming. It exchanges the their tip with your own and thrusts into their face or throat, happening so quick the other swordsmen doesn’t even have time to react appropriately. One-two can turn also into a fluid riposte…

It does not look pretty, it does not look clever, and it is at the very heart of using the Reverse Grip. In fact the footwork is basic, like a tank just rolling forwards; it does not need to hurry.

Shadows Cloak

Starting in Fools Guard Right

1/ Covering Defense: Starting in fools guard right with the left leg in lead; cover across into Plow Left. Key feature is stepping forwards slightly and to the left with the lead leg to open up your hips.

Note: Push down on the pommel its faster than using your arms.

The Iron Gate

Starting in Fools Guard Right

1/ Swing the Gate closed across your body into Plow Left. Execute the slight opening step with your lead foot.
2/ Stepping through with the Right leg – Thrust without any rotation or rotate into the straight thrust or twist into an OX thrust.

The Rusty Hinge

Starting in Fools Guard Right

Your opponent thinks your chest is wide open and thrusts boldly…

1/ Deflect as you go into your Plow left but what happens is your thrust emerges; straight thrust, OX thrust, released thrust with the left hand and so on. Because of sliding with steel weapons it sounds like an old rusty hinge! The same foot work as above; open the lead foot and step through with your rear leg.

The Bent Nail

Starting in Fools Guard Right

Your opponent thinks your chest is wide open and thrusts boldly…

1/ As the Thrust enters the Plow left becomes a Throw left. Practice at first in two movements; Plow into Throw breaking their line of attack allowing for your own to follow through. Once this is smooth; turn it into a beating action over and down; it describes the arc of the plow but really beats down their blade trying to bend it! Finally the Throw can turn into a Scoop; the blade has mechanical advantage and so can roll around and scoop right with the false edge; the back of the blade.

The Sharpened Stick

Starting in Fools Guard Right

1/ Quickly advance and thrust or step and thrust or lunge and thrust from the Fools guard right. Rotate the pommel instead of your hands for speed.
2/ The targeting here is simple and effective: Hands/Throat/Head/Groin using Straight thrusting (2 hands) or a released thrust with the left hand for reach.

Note: Don’t over muscle or strain here; quick in and out – Make them doubt.

The Cat Chases the Bird

Starting in Fools Guard Left (Left foot lead)

Note: These techniques use the same concepts as above but from left to right instead of right to left. Also they use the false/back of the blade.

1/ Block with the back of your blade as it angles up and across guarding the flank from left to right.
2/ Follow up with a D-cut OR H-cut. "The bird cannot leave the ground before it is caught."

The Pouncing Cat

Starting in Fools Guard Left (Left foot lead)

1/ As above the blade goes up and back across to the right injecting and deflecting like you are throwing a sack of potatoes over your right shoulder and then because it has leverage it cuts down on their blade suppressing it.

This can turn into a scoop left if you desire. Your blade is in pole position over theirs, to their perspective this is the back of their blade.

Kind Regards
Bluesky

Reverse Grip Studies

It is allot to absorb but I think anyone patient enough to work their way through it will reap many rewards.

Taking everything you have learnt and know and have experienced with the Reverse Grip, see how many guards, cuts and thrusts you can identify for both opponents? Let me know what you see?

It is a little slow at the start but it creates a feeling for the courage and spirit of the Jedi by the end. The music also amplifies the battle; in my opinion watch it all if you can you wont be disappointed ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UtXSTyOAMY#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UtXSTyOAMY#ws)

Kind Regards
Bluesky

Reverse Grip Studies 2

As you can see from the last video guards, attacks and defenses all have a close relationship. See how many cuts you can find in this video. (No video is perfect but it has some good examples of most cuts, a good straight thrust, spins and general classic Japanese fun!

These two posts add flavor to the whole discussion about the RG. Also it highlights that mistakes are as common as good technique.

Recording your own theory in your own sword diary will help you in the years to come...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSTG4Nap3vY# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSTG4Nap3vY#)

Kind Regards
Bluesky

Um, not sure what your precise background/degree of understanding of martial arts is, but I dunno if you want to use Zatoichi as an example to any degree of legitimacy...

I also voice support to Oromac and Eerock that it would be great if you could make some videos demonstrating the techniques you're describing. Speaking for myself - I can read instructions just fine and have a pretty decent imagination, but there are multiple parameters for even a single good cut or parry, not just the general trajectory and target of the attacking limb. Rather than simply guessing at the maneuvers you're trying to describe, to which two different people may imagine the same fundamental movement two subtle yet importantly different ways, it only takes a few seconds to see the actual movements themselves and analyze them.

Further to this, I realize that not everyone is able to do videos, so I had another thought in mind that would help me wrap these concepts around my head a little more tightly. Could you try to present fewer examples or moves, but add more descriptions and details to each item you present, and maybe describe the example in context to how this should affect the opponent, and what the opponent might be doing to warrant the example?

Whether it's feasible for real combat or not, RG is used in Star Wars, and that's why I remain interested in this thread. :)

Hi there from Australia ;D

Using Zatoichi was quite deliberate; it shows mistakes, guards, cuts, thrusts, footwork and tempo. Zatoichi stumbles around half the time!

Reverse Grip does not have the full range of the Forward Grip but has a nitrous mix, that is for sure. :o

How many guards, cuts, thrusts did you see that are what I was talking about? I counted many ;D

Did you see the forward grips OX guard?

Did you see d-cuts and A-cuts and H-cuts?

Thank you for you post Tanq

Thank you Eerockk for your kind words; I really appreciate it. I have given it allot of thought about the idea of one or two Techniques described in extended detail. Looking at my first list of techniques; I realized they were bunched together and not as clear as the format I am now using. If I extend each technique it will take so long I may only share once a week. I would rather get it all up there and improve in flight; a sort of fail forwards, fire and adjust in flight sort of thing. Take for instance how I responded to your queries about visualizing the cuts with simple and clear explanations. You are helping make this better. If I tried to do it all myself it might overwhelm me ;D

One of my goal is to collate everything into a PDF so people can print and play!  ;D

Take for instance my walkthrough; I want to provide genuine advancement of the ideas like the CAP footwork! ;D

Thank you for contributing I appreciate it and hope other people post their RG theory, techniques problems and solutions.

Kind Regards
Bluesky

As you asked for it bluesky here you go my ideas for flanking at speed attacks  :)

I've been thinking about the "speed" concept some more, I have decided its all well and good to hit faster then your opposition, but that forces them to block and any good duelist I'm assuming can block what ever is coming at them. So basically my ideas for speed comes down to moving out and around your opponent whilst keeping in your combat stance

For Example

Say your dueling with your opponent, it is possible to move around but your opponent will either follow you or retreat depending on what direction your moving, therefor if you want to strike into a completley open area (the back) you will have to find away of distracting them and getting behind them in the fastest possible time


> Move quickly out diagonally from your opposition with one side step
> Begin a quick succsesion of angled strikes to your opponents side
> Do one last side step to move in behind your opponent
> Danger!!! Turn as quickly as you can preferably whilst you are moving towards your opponent
> Strike quickly before they turn around to block



(Your movement should be quick and in only two to three motions, whilst keeping your footing on an offensive position)


Im thinking even if they do turn around and block, if your fast enough you may be able to follow some attacks to the open spots because of the speed with which they had to turn.



On the subject of side steps, your position of your feet will be critical, if you move horiziontally equal (defensive stance) you should be able to block attacks on the move, however if your moving quickly in an offensive stance you can land a barrage of shots


Pro's and Con's


Pro's

> If moving with enough speed you should be able to land a very damaging strike to your opponent
> Unpredictable if coming from a grab or close range attack
> Able to defend and attack whilst moving


Con's

> If you move to fast in the offensive stance you might go crashing into your opponent
> Only effective once in a fight, your opposition will most likely learn after the first time (if you don't win after the first time) and learn to turn around
> The strike's most dangerous spot is where you turn around. so you have to find a way of turning quickly (if possible use this turning time to give more power to your strike)



I think thats all my ideas summed up

I think I see where you're going with this.  Even though the fight is obviously choreographed, we can see the Blind Swordsman accidentally fall over a horse tie, then take advantage of that mistake to strike the opponent. 

I do agree that your adding definitions and context to your examples definitely helps visualize them. 

The more I read and study, the more I want to get out and spar.  Now if only this damn snow would melt!

Hi there from Australia

Here is my Reverse Grip Fix for the week!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIqgZKOt2Kk#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIqgZKOt2Kk#ws)

Kind Regards
Bluesky