Saber Forum

I was wondering where everyone stands on a staff (Maul) vs dual wielding (Ventress).

What style do you prefer and why?

What are the weaknesses and strengths of each style?

I'm definitely a staffer, mostly because of how badass it looks and feels. It's really an intimidating style to face I think and it's always nice to have two blades to work with instead of one. Granted I focus mainly on spinning, but combat wise, I like countering and getting in close to confuse and throw an opponent off balance. Fights are rarely won at long range, so it's a good weapon to be able to get in close and keep your opponent on the defensive. I love all styles (maybe because I just love fighting? lol), but a staff is my weapon of choice.

We've directly and indirectly discussed various merits and detriments of both in a number of our videos.
We recently did a show which focused on dual wielding (Jar Kai) with the bulk of the show being on a weapon in each hand.
In order to repeat everything we've already covered here's the really shot version:

The saber staff, which we usually prefer to call a double ended sword, as it has less in common with a staff, does not provide any extra reach.
It's can strike very quickly, due to the follow through with the second blade.
Due to the physical construction the weapon itself tends to be more vulnerable to to being struck (Sun Djem).
The wielder has to be very careful not to catch themselves with the 2nd blade.

Jar Kai can provide a greater number of options for attack and/or defense, depending on if the weapons are of equal or unequal length.
Having a weapon in each hand is much more difficult to learn effectively and creates the possibility for the wielder to get tangled in their own weapons.
A single hand on a weapon is not as strong as two hands on a weapon.

There's more but this is a place to start.

Hi there from Australia ;D

The staff has long tradition; the stuff that Maul does is as much show as substance in my opinion. There is nothing wrong with flash but I like clear, crisp practical staff and pike techniques.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTVC25hYJaY# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTVC25hYJaY#)

Many people in my experience love the idea of Duel Swords or a Double-bladed Lightsaber but don't know how to use it practically.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzgi8kB6cPU# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzgi8kB6cPU#)

The Duel Sword is its own kettle of fish. I would learn both separately before any match ups or it will be a mess of a duel. My money is on the staff purely because it is more connected to the center of mass of the human body but really any style battle is not genuine because it comes more down to the individual or even luck!

Are you a attacker, defender or counter attacker?
Are you mobile or static?
Are you a follow through type of hitter or a flick and tickle?

It is better to not think versus but to instead think theory; faking, flanking and fighting. Just my thoughts and opinion...

"The Measure of the Man is greater then the Measure of the Blade."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nge9ObY2tvQ# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nge9ObY2tvQ#)

I would recommend you watch this twice and think on the versus question anew. When one style is matched against the other I would focus on the one that studies their enemy and the one that knows themselves. In the famous battle between Musashi and Kojiro who was true to their spirit?

Kojiro said "You can't kill me with that shabby wooden stick."
Musashi said "You've lost because you threw away the sheath."
Kojiro answered "I won't use this bloody sword after killing you."

If you ant to skip ahead go to 3:30 minutes in to the Duel !  ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GQGLvsVeXo# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GQGLvsVeXo#)

Duel Wielding and the Staff you would have to say both on their day would win my friend. My money is the one who has prepared the most.

Excellent points Master VorNach though more or less options is not as important for me. Really it is a coin toss for me, coming down to the wielder themselves. The Romans conquered the world getting up close and stabbing you with a short sword!

Weapon attacks I think are a vulnerability for all weapons and is not special to Double/bladed light-sabers. I think you are right and cover it quite clearly; its just a matter of degrees for me. Your videos are an excellent source here to refer to I think because you discuss lots of little aspects you know from experience. Like you I favor the Double over the Duel but really its much of a muchness because a skilled Duel wielder has ways of answering the questions all other styles ask...

Kind Regards
Bluesky

From my point of view, both styles are identical in their advantages vs their disadvantages.  You must remember, though, that is saber combat, you cannot touch the back of your blade nor can you use the entire length of the staff as a fulcrum (i.e. you can only hold the center).

For me, it is far easier to use a saberstaff (actually a saberstaff with shoto blades) because of the experience with the jo.  I have been able to modify jogi 1 and 2 for use with the saberstaff shoto and it is becoming very comfortable.  However, I am sure that someone who is experienced in escrima will find dual-wielding shoto more comfortable.

Staff offers quick defensive to offensive strikes.  It also saves energy as you can use the momentum of a deflection or block to spin into an attack with the other end.  However, since all of your attacks must be performed with a straight line, you are unable to immediately take advantage of an opening you may see if you have already engaged in an attack or defense.

Dual-wielding offers variety over standard wielding.  You are free to perform dual-blocks, dual-attacks, or a combination block/attack with impunity.  The downside is that your two blades are intersecting lines that might cross and require more movement (and thus energy expenditure) to position them appropriately for a strike or block.

So, why my mentioning energy expenditure in both is from my experiences in SCA.  Believe me, after your first bastard sword fight in full plate armor that ends with a strike to the foot because you just can't lift your arm (let alone sword) anymore... you look at conservation of energy a great deal more.

Point!

Since I've never used a saberstaff, I have to say I prefer dual-wielding. 

That said, I'm sure I'd suck with both since I'm basically still a novice with even one saber.  Though it is a lot of fun to dork around with dual-wielding.  Haven't smacked myself.  Yet. 

I think the Double is superior to two if all else is equal and so too does these guys! See if you can find the change over to Reverse Grip! Also watch for how the Double-Blade deals with Duel blade attacks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faQO57Iwlo0#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faQO57Iwlo0#ws)

I had to watch this 3 times !!!!!

Kind Regards
Bluesky

One thing that I noticed in that video, Bluesky, was the staff was used more as a defensive weapon than an offensive one.  Even the attacks were more spins to prepare to block the next incoming attack.  The use of the blade deactivation was a good feint as was the use of the hilt as a weapon (the arm break).  Not to mention, I loved the way he kicked the other guys arm to make him kill his friend.

The dual-wield was not a strong variant.  It looked more like an erstwhile attempt for visuals.  The same can be said with the reverse-grip.  I believe that this video was a good look at a strongly staff-choreographed fight sequence.

Hi there from Australia, Starfire ;D

Good points, this is really a dance, but it does feature the double and the duel styles and throughs in the RG, did you spot it?

Your right about the visuals but it does have some sound merit in how the double uses its mechanics.

For me Starfire; I love when the Double goes on the attack power whacking towards the end and how the one blade struggles to even hold up any defense.

Great assesment ;D For me it is amazing what humans can do! May the force be with you!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9-yoLRKAww#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9-yoLRKAww#ws)

Kind Regards
Bluesky
PS - Its my Birthday!!!! yey!

Hi there from Australia ;D

When it comes to the question of one weapon/style versus each other; I believe the battle often comes down to factors out of your control. This is why your state of mind is so important...

This video is graphic; if violence makes you ill please do not load:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1LfEh1roIo# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1LfEh1roIo#)

Kind Regards
Bluesky

Hi there from Australia ;D

Because my last video was very, very serious I thought I better find something duel wielding and funny!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdROnngBUUQ#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdROnngBUUQ#ws)

Kind Regards
Bluesky

Actually, I think the answer to the vs. Question and especially the personal preferance is exactly that..
Personal preferance. As in the Star Wars world every Jedi, Sith and everything in between
developed thier own weapon type and fighting style, depending on thier personal key strengths and skills.
As the evolution of Maul, when he started with a single blade saber, lost to a jedi and rather than admitting defeat
crafted his known saber staff and extended the second blade as a surprise.
My personal LARP expierience showed me, that a can't concentrate on dualwielding, but I 'm extremely good at
staffwielding and would challenge any dualwielders any day. Of course, medival style weapons, can't quite compare to sabers,
 but I think one should focus on one- selves abilities and pratice those.
Cause you never know who you'll be fighting, but you'll always know whose fighting them..  ;D
Man, I can't wait to get my saberstaff..  ;)