Saber Forum

So, as regular viewers will know, I like movies. And through my "Top 11 Favourites..." series that many of you have contributed to, we have highlighted a lot of movies. Some of these movies can be considered good, some can be considered bad, some can be considered great.

Hopefully we can all agree that movies are supposed to give you a subjective response. Everything about you and how you grew up and how you are as a person (and even how you're feeling on a specific day) plays into your response to a movie. However, even with that in mind, what is it that makes a good movie?

I found a list on reddit that I think sums it up quite nicely. They are not in any particular order and I did change a couple of bits.

Do you guy agree or disagree? If you agree, say why. If you disagree, say why and offer some alternatives (or things you would delete).
Do you think it's possible to come up with a blanket list that covers every genre?

All opinons are welcome


1. Good Story: - A great movie must have a good plot that tells both an intriguing and/or unusual story.

2. Suspense: - Some element of the film must keep the audience on edge and make them eagerly anticipate a resolution.

3. Originality: - The film must present some new concept/idea that has hardly been explored by it's predecessors or take an existing concept/idea and present it an original way. Some amount of creativity and innovation should invent never-before-seen content.

4. Good Actors: - No matter how great a job the writers did coming up with a story, it must be properly executed. The actors must convince the audience that they are the characters they're portraying.

5. Good Dialogue: - No matter how great the actors, they can only do so much. Good dialogue is part of what makes for a great performance.

6. Profound Message: - Within the story there should be brought to light a particular moral or ethical point. The moral/ethic does not have to be agreeable, directly stated, proved true (in the film) or even make sense; it just has to resonate in the audience's mind.

7. Good Cinematography: - The camera crew and camera operator must capture the scenes in a manner that best illustrates the story and leaves a visual impact on the audience.

8. Good Setting: - The characters must be placed inside an environment that contributes to their actions and interactions while also emphasising the themes and moods of the film. The scenery should be pleasing to the eye while not detracting from the main focus of the scene.

9. Good Sound: - Nothing will pull an audience out a film quicker than bad sound (not just score but all the sound effects and the clarity of the dialogue too). Sound should compliment the visuals, but also help convey the emotion of each scene/ If those two aspects contradict each other, diabetic and non-diagetic soundtracks should each support a separate element in opposition to the other.

10. Visual Effects: - In modern filmmmaking, visual effects are added in during post-production (special effects are done in camera, on set, while filming take place). The film's visuals must maintain a professional quality and stimulate the audience. If they are done really well, the audience should not be able to distinguish between what it a visual effect and what is real life.

Yes

To all of them? (I just did an edit and added in a 10th)

11. Good action scenes.  ;)

I've enjoyed movies without action too.

Good action scenes are required in action movies, but not essential for every movie. (I kinda knew you'd put in something about action movies. All part of your charm ;))


Such as?

First time anyone said I have charm.

Probably better not to mention them due to their religious nature. I will go take a look at our shelves of movies and check for more.

The Passion of the Christ? Ben-Hur?

For me it's much more simple: Did this keep me entertained? Then it is a good movie in my book.

But HOW and WHY does it keep you entertained?

I'd say yes to all of these. And along th  same lines as Calon, action,  if done correctly, can add to any movie. The most important however is good story, with close second and third being good acting/actors, and good dialogue. I can forgive some of the others if these tree are there.

I appreciate what this list is going for, but I also think it's really limiting as to what it considers a good movie.

Movies shouldn't be "checklists" that you mark off and give a score to to determine its quality; they're bigger than that. Movies carry ideas and emotions, and the way they get those ideas and emotions across can come in any way, shape, or form.

I have one movie that I want to posit as a refutation to this list: WHO KILLED CAPTAIN ALEX?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEoGrbKAyKE

It was made by Wakaliwood, a very, very small studio in Wakaliga, Uganda where they only get electricity every three days, meaning they charge the camera on one day, film as much as they can, then charge it again when they get electricity back WHILE EDITING. Because of their limited resources, their movies look cheap, with FX so fake they couldn't fool a toddler. However, none of it matters, because you feel the love they have for action movies coming across in every frame. They put 100% of their effort into this small movie that most of the world probably won't see, and those that do will likely laugh and put their efforts down, but that doesn't change the fact that they give more of a damn than many filmmakers working today. As a result, their film is absolutely endearing (and very funny too, with some surprisingly solid action!).

I don't think movies need to live up to a certain standard to be "good," and I think any attempts to jot down standards just limit what you're willing to comprehend. Are rules important? Yes, and every filmmaker should know them well. But as with all art, the rules are only guidelines, and they can be broken at any moment.

So yeah, forget this list.

As for my own answer to what makes a good movie: honestly? It can literally be anything. Just gotta keep your mind open. ;)

Ok now done messed it all up. VE are nice but not a requirement of a great movie. Everything else? Yes.

Out of the list I will say the bare minimum for a good movie are good story, good dialogue, good cinematography and good sound. Everything else is just icing on the cake.

Bad sound just pulls me out of a movie and therefore my focus isn't where it should be.

Good story is why any of us watch movies to begin with. As I said on the random thoughts thread recently, from the cave paintings of prehistoric man to Egyptian hieroglyphics. From the written word to the creation of film, humankind has always told stories. And good stories are the ones that stay with you. They're the ones you enjoy reading, seeing or listening to over and over again.

Cinematography is art, plain and simple. Creating images that linger in the memory years after you have seen a film. We can all think of a great shot (or shots) from some of our favourite movies. Shots that makes us smile, makes us excited, make us sad.....

And as for dialogue, there is a reason that we have a "quote this" thread. Great movie dialogue can transcend a movie and go onto being use in pop culture and everyday use, much like classic dialogue from genius wordsmiths like Shakespeare.

For me, it is the combination of these four that, at a bare minimum, is what is required for a GREAT movie. What I consider great may or may not differ for what other people. Like a venn diagram there will always be some crossover too. But, that is why, for me, movies as an expressive art form goes beyond simple entertainment at times, when all the elements you can measure (and those you can't) come together in a infinitely complex manner, just as the stars align, lightning flashes and the miracle of (movie) creation is captured on film for all time.

Music is another huge thing. Before there were even talking pictures, the movies had music in them. Without the music, a movie isn't what it is. I have to agree with LB though. Movies can be great without any of these things. Part of what makes movies so great is the love that is put into them. Again, without this, a movie just isn't the same. Dialogue is different. Think of The Princess Bride. It doesn't have the greatest dialogue, and it is actually pretty corny. However, it is still a great movie, and the dialogue makes it so. I don't think a movie needs GREAT photography. It certainly helps, but it isn't necessary. If the story and actors are good enough, the camera doesn't matter. Knox has posted a couple fan films like this. Not the greatest camera work, but still solid films.

I don't think there is any one thing or list of things that makes a movie great. It is the combination of everything.

So goes The Story, so goes The Message. Any story. And I know 95% of all movie talk on here is action, but story/message. Every movie has a good story, but what's the message? Or are you just telling a story? Next, music. Crappy music can blow it. Cinematography can make or break. Sometimes, the cinematographer is so caught up on their own agenda, they lose sight of the film. A good balance of landscape. Chemistry between actors is needed besides just good actors.

Haven't seen either.

This isn't really something with a simple answer.  It really depends on what kind of movie I'm watching.

Drama:  I want good writing and dialog.  I want believable characters with really good actors playing them.  I want to feel the story as if it's happening in the real world and I want to leave the movie feeling good about the outcome.

Action:  Well, obviously, I want action.  I want believable action stars, but they don't have to be the best actors.  The writing should be good, decent dialog, but the plot doesn't necessarily have to blow me away.  I want lots of entertaining action, be it fights, chases, whatever.  I want my heroes to win the day.

Comedy:  Obviously, I want to laugh.  Whether it's funny jokes, witty dialog, or physical comedy, I want to split my sides laughing.  Plots can be anything from the absurd to the downright stupid.  But, as long as I laughed, it's a good film.  I want good, funny writing, believable actors who can tell a joke, and I want to leave the movie feeling good, like I just had a visit from a good friend.

Science Fiction:  I want a good plot, heavy on the science and the fiction.  IE: this technology exists, this is more or less how, but it's nothing we have now.  Plots have to be good, I want good characters played by competent actors, but not necessarily the best actors.  And, I want special effects, lots and lots of special effects.  Makeup, weapons, explosions, ships and whatnot.  Effects are important.  Costumes and sets are also important.  I want to feel like I'm in the movie's world.

Fantasy:  Fantasy can range for me.  It's not my favorite genre.  I want magic and a good story.  It doesn't have to be the best plot, but I don't want anything absurdly stupid.  I know that's kind of vague.  And, like Sci-Fi, I want special effects.  Magic, creatures, whatever.  I want lots of effects.

Horror:  Also not my favorite, but I do enjoy some of the classic horror films, especially the creature features.  Plots don't have to be the best, but I want lots of monsters and fights.  Drama can help, makeup is a must.  Competent acting is also essential to sell a good horror, but not as necessarily in some of the monster movies, such as Godzilla films.  (Godzilla films are almost in their own genre for me)

I know there are more genres, but that covers most of what I watch.  I watch a lot of films that cover more than one genre.  Above all, as TJ said, a movie has to entertain me to be good.  What entertains me?  Lots of things, depends on what I'm in the mood for.  See above for ideas.  My number one sin as far as movies go is boredom.  If it bores me, I won't finish it.  Period.