Saber Forum

So the first thing I should state is that the people concerned in this situation are between the ages of 17-20 and due to college and other activities (band) do not have much in the way of expendable money.

Some friends and I are planning on creating a sparring club for a means to geek out over Star Wars and have some fun indulging in our desire to compete with each other at the same time. With our planning, the first orders of business were to find two or three places to meet and then make a purchase of at least two sabers that were more than just display items or kids plastic toys. The sabers basically ate up my birthday money (quite happy about it too, Phantasm V2 artic blue and violet amethyst, can't wait), which was what we expected. Since we are already dedicated to investing most of our money elsewhere, we are coming up short on money to purchase protective gear, namely face/neck protection. We do have access to some heavily padded winter work gloves that we plan on using for the time being, but we are at a loss for what to do for cheap, effective, short-term face protection. I have no basis on how heavy our sparring will be, but most of us are guys and none of us do athletic sports.

Is there anything you guys here can recommend for cheaper protective gear that works well (looking for at a price range of $50-$100 for two people)? We completely understand the necessity of having proper safety equipment but also have a limited budget range for the time being. Would airsoft face protection work?

This is what I have seen recommended.  You might also be able to find something for less on ebay.  If there is a fencing club at your school, check with them, they might also have resources.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01ERWUNQM/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I25N7TLP6AET50&colid=2VSA5M51ZPIID&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01ERWUNQM/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I25N7TLP6AET50&colid=2VSA5M51ZPIID&psc=1)

Lax gear has a good deals on gloves. https://www.lax.com
Also lacrosse monkey
https://www.lacrossemonkey.com


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If you are looking to go the super cheap route and don't mind re-purposing some existing sports equipment then several kinds of sporting masks would probably work. Football helmets, ice hockey goalie helmets, etc. Check out your local thrift stores and second hand shops, plus Ebay, Craigslist. Everybody is always getting rid of old sports equipment. Illyiss mentioned a fencing club and it might pay to also check out the sports groups at your school as they may be getting rid of equipment.

As far as neck protection, the fencing mask is tops I would say. An ice hockey goalie mask with the neck bar might be a close 2nd.

Some groups use minimal protective equipment or none at all like below... really depends on your sparring technique and how all out you are going.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0XVD0Ni6Xw

EDIT: kaanapuchris makes an excellent point with Lacrosse stuff, those helmets should work too.

I don't really duel much (though I would like to), and I generally don't even use gloves (mostly because I forget to put them on), but if you use Midgrade blades, and are careful (say no headshots) them you could probably get away without even using a helmet, though it probably isn't the best idea.

My advise is to NOT skimp on the gloves. Nothing will end your new sparring club quicker than broken fingers on the first night. Even with control, hands will get hit, it will hurt and the heaviest work gloves will not help. Try and find a used sports store or search craigslist for deals. Even bug friends and family that may have old gear packed away in the basement/garage. Usually a worn pair of lacrosse gloves can be scored for under $20. Build up from there and adjust your rules of engagement accordingly. Shoulder pads and hockey helmets are also cheap used. Maybe limit head blows and thrusts until you have some time to invest in better headgear. A very good fencing mask is only in the $60 range.
We usually tell new students that between an entry level ultra saber and some second hand gear, expect to spend around $200-250 total before they can safely spar at full speed.

Oh wow that video! I haven't see it around for a while. I am even featured, from 0:24 to 0:30; I'm the red guy doing a poor interpretation of Form II (I did win that fight though).

To get back on topic, I suggest good padded gloves, groin protection and googles as a minimum.
My advice is, if you can, not to be too cheap, especially on eye protection. You DON'T want something that will break.
There is plenty of good advice in the thread, so be safe, and take care of yourself and your partner / opponent.

I found...
Ebay. Lacrosse gloves. knee and shin guards. Elbow and forearm guards.
Goodwill. Sporting masks or motorcycle helmets.
...all for less than 50$ per person.

I've heard recommendations for using an athletic cup.

I would definitely use a Jock or Jill, just in case.

If there's one in your area, have you tried Play It Again Sports? You should certainly find some things there that will work, and shouldn't be expensive. Perhaps some used catcher's gear?

I have actually found a website called sideline swap from which one can purchase used gear, which may be very helpful for lacrosse gloves

I have been hit down there several times in my six years of practice, so DEFINITELY wear a cup XD

The three most important areas to protect are, as you might have noticed, the head, hands, and groin.  Fencing masks, hockey/lacrosse gloves, and athletic cup form an excellent foundation for dueling gear, and actually cost very little.  Keep in mind that the cost of a hospital stay is going to be far more than any of this equipment ;)

I tend to find gloves on clearance at sporting goods stores for $10-20, you just have to keep your eyes open.  Fencing mask is typically $50 for a basic epee one (Absolute Fencing is a good source).

On fencing masks: I've seen people recommend alternative head gear like hockey helmets, football helmets, etc.  However, the main thing you're protecting the face from with the mask is a thrusting attack.  Most hockey/lacrosse/football headgear has an open face-mask that probably won't work well for that.  If you're going to splurge a bit, the fencing mask or kendo mask is the place to do it.

Trust me you can deal with a broken finger or bad groin strike better than a pulped eye from a badly placed stab...

Plus, fencing masks are SO CHEAP!  When you think about it, $50 isn't enough to buy the cheapest saber from Ultrasabers, so I think it's more than worth the expense to protect your eyes, teeth, and head.

It's less than a hockey helmet with face protection as well. I'd recommend going the fencing mask route, though my recommendation means little.

The thing is, the primary function of any kind of head protection is another one: making it possible to HIT the opponent in the head. Without, the head will not be targeted (only by accident) and that will result in senseless blade-clashing. Fencing masks provide a safe target - add back-of-the-head protection and you can hit from every angle.
Most importantly, though, the bib provides protection for the throat. Blades slide and bounce on the mesh, swings miss - and some of them land on the throat. Getting hit there is not funny.

Having a really short neck, I've found no gorget that fits me, but bib plus fencing jacket has kept my throat safe in over 10 years of fighting with steel, wood and polycarbonate.
 ;)

OH YESSS

You are right, this point is important. If the two opponents have good head protections, the two opponents can target the head and make the fight more realistic and interesting ;)

I will add little comments on what have been already said

Considering hand protection:
If you have a one hand style and if you love to make some spins during a combat, MMA gloves could be a solution. But be careful, there is less protection on the thumb and they should be used only in "friendly" combats.

(https://i.imgur.com/y7piSnk.jpg)

Considering head protection:
Fencing masks are wonderful. And if you are skilled with a needle and a tube of glue, you can add some tissu parts around the mask to avoid/reduce the "bell ring" effect when you receive a blade in your head ;)

(https://i.imgur.com/8yqXBi7.jpg)

For example, this mask is mine, it is a HEMA fencing mask and i added tissu parts around.

Considering body protection:
I think you can find in every country. I use a Rugby body armor. It is added costs regarding to the original question of the topic but it gives a very good protection.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41mWSwMJaDL._SX425_.jpg)

(https://www.boutique-rugby.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/650x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/s/h/short_de_protection_1.png)

You now, there are professional manufacturers out there, providing those things?  ;D
Like Allstar, PBT, SPES ...

The point with ALL protective equipment is: It's there to provide safe targets and protect against ACCIDENTS. No equipment in the world can protect one from an idiot bashing away at the opponent with a hard plastic stick - someone will get hurt, it's just a matter of time.
So, the first line of defense is - surprise - technique.
The second line is common sense: if you are a beginner and want to duel, slow down. Begin fighting in slow motion - that's actually a lot harder than most people believe.
Speed up only as your technique gets better and you'll avoid most accidental injuries.

Beginning with mask, gloves an cup, equipment can be added when speed and intensity increase - slowly, over time. That way, you'll stay safe AND develop better fighting skills at the same time.

Good points.  I've always felt that eliminating the head as a target takes a huge chunk of the realism out of sparring, considering what a high value target it is!  Where possible, I second your recommendation about protection for the back of the head as well.  Full 360 degree protection of the head opens up all kinds of good combat methods, for instance passing the opponent.

I didn’t mention before, but Motocross jackets are another decent, affordable option for body armor that we use. Shoulders, chest and elbows are well protected for only a $30-40 price point. The Kendo Tare is not “budget” gear, but it does offer good waist and hip protection while eliminating the need for a cup. Here I am in my mishmash sparring gear. 
(http://i.imgur.com/nUhtMY7.jpg)

Problem with that: points tend to catch between the plates and get directed right to some very vulnerable parts, like armpits. If thrusting is allowed, those things can quickly get dangerous.
Moreover, the protective plates are located somewhat wrong for fighting, leaving the ribs mostly uncovered, as the belly and collarbones.

So, yes, they can work, but from experience I can say that one should not put too much trust in them. After all, they are designed to lessen the impact of a motorcycle accident, not protect against someone hitting you with a weapon.  ;)

Valid points indeed.  Anyone else ever get the impression that when discussing protective gear for impact combat, especially sword(ish) based, that people are always trying to re-invent the wheel, when thousands of years of history, where wars were fought with swords and similar objects already went through the evolution of protective gear (armor)?

Not so much talking about looking for affordable alternatives/options, but just in general.

Absolutely, especially the ribs as those are enticing targets ("Do" in Kendo) to most saber practitioners.  I also have to say, I would not put much trust in a $30 mesh shirt with some plastic sewn on to effectively lesson the impact of a motorcycle accident either!
I think we have mostly exhausted the original point of the thread, as all "budget" gear is essentially flawed in one way or another. Perhaps we should start a thread on "ideal protective gear" to give people with some resources an idea of how to invest in gear if they want to take it to the next level. 

Yeah, they're good for incidental protection, but any direct attacks hold potential danger.  Doesn't hurt to wear it (as compared to no protection at all), but you do have to keep the flaws in mind.

Great advice in here. I agree with the Fencing Mask. We've used motorcycle helmets in Kali for as far back as I can remember. I brought in a Fencing mask one day and we've never looked back....some dents on it here and there, but better that than your head. Also, I know this was already said, but I going to emphasize it as well

Head, Hands and Groin. ( Nero mentioned this! )
I also require elbow protection in my group. ( I target the elbows and knees a lot. ) Knee protection is optional but most of my group throw those on as well.

If its going to be full contact with " Power " then add some chest armor. As for a budget, save up and get exactly what you need. If you have to wait a little bit, its worth it. Trust me.

I would like to say that sparring gear from https://www.centurymartialarts.com/ is very useful. I have an almost full set of gear from them (I only need the chestplate) and it is lightweight and very durable and it provides decent protection and its not all that expensive.

And a wounded finger for me despite of my gloves ...

... Once again my friends, put your protective devices ... ALWAYS !!!

;)