Saber Forum

Do you think a lightsaber could have a curved blade(in canon)?

Most people would say no. The people at Disney would probably say "why not?". The closest thing to a curved bladed saber we have in canon is the Darksaber, and nobody knows why that one has a blade the shape that it does.

When I think of the reasons for curved steel blades, very few of those reasons carry over to lightsabers. The reason why they would be rarer than honest politicians is because there really isn't a need to curve a lightsaber blade. I can only think of three:

1) Aesthetics.

2) Unpredictability.

and

3) Easier to use from horseback(speederback?)

Real Life, its because it was supposed to be a VibroSword but Lucas didn't want anything other than a lightsaber to stand up to another lightsaber but they already had the animation done.

Within the Universe I have a theory.  Now this will go against real world science and drive Logos crazy....  but the blade of a Lightsaber is contained in a electromagnetic field of sorts.  The emitters of lightsabers all have round holes for the blade to emit from so the field takes that shape.  But the Darksaber has a line-slit emitter..so the field takes that shape.  Still doesn't explain the tip but Lucas really screwed them with that.

Light whips are a thing in Star Wars. (expanded universe) If those exist and function like a whip, which they do, then the blade has to do a lot more than just curve. So, a curved blade wouldn't be much of a stretch.

Point for that, because I was going to say exactly the same thing. I believe it falls under Legends in the EU but in the first Darth Bane book is where they are first mentioned (if I remember correctly). And my word would that be a fearsome weapon, if people view double bladed lightsabers as unpredictable and dangerous to the user a whip is like the 10x BigBang Kamehameha of that in terms of craziness. I'd love to watch a fight with a user of the light whip, even if it's VS multiple opponents. Now I just wonder if anyone has done a real life variant? I'd kill to see someone using an UltraSabers version of a customized bull whip. I honestly have no idea how to even approach practically fighting this type of weapon 1 v 1. Without use of 2 blades and Jar Kai, good luck. Maybe a Kylo Ren style saber in one hand to try and block then tangle and lock up the whip on one side, and then a Force guided lightsaber throw with the one in your other hand for a coupe-de-grais. Truly terrifying to behold.

I would also be curious to see what an UltraSaber version of a whip would be like. If I had to guess, I'd have assumed that some EDM/flow/light/etc. vendors would likely sell some form of LED whip or another, although I'd be doubtful of their durability for sparring with, but for purposes of pure exhibition, I'd bet they'd look pretty cool. So I did look it up, and apparently they are a thing for the EDM/flow people. It looks like most all of the ones I've seen so far have many, many very thin tendrils (even more so than Lumiya's lightwhip) to the point where I doubt it would function similarly, but then again I know very little of whips.

I was able to find one video of someone using an LED whip (or even two at once), and they seemed to each only have a single thicker tendril/strand, as non-light most whips tend to, which seems to be more akin to most lightwhips than the others I've seen. But it seemed that the light part of the whip was many small LED lights running down the length of the whip, as opposed to it appearing as a single beam of light, but I'd still say that's close enough to count, considering it seemed very functional in the videos. The person who posted the video does seem to be very skilled with whips, and has some pretty cool videos with normal whips as well. But based on the video descriptions, it seems that she made the whip herself, so a high-quality commercially available single-strand lightwhip may not be a thing I suppose, but I have not looked into it extensively enough to say this with any meaningful level of certainty.

There seems to have been a different lightsaber vendor who made a VERY long lightwhip at one time, but reviews I read in a cursory search didn't seem to be entirely satisfactory, and the video I saw of it it did seem very long and a bit unwieldy, which I'm honestly not sure if it's due to the insane length, the material's stiffness and/or weight, the user's experience with whips, or some combination of the above factors, and another super cursory search seems to indicate that 8' would be a more suitable length than 10' for a less experienced user. An issue I would imagine would only be exacerbated with an unorthodox material/weight whip like a lightwhip would be.

Either way, it would be quite a sight, and I'd imagine incredibly difficult to counter if you came across a skilled whip-wielder with no training against a whip and no game plan to counter it. Would a gauntlet and glove made of some lightsaber resistant material allow you to attempt to grab a single-stranded lightwhip, while using a single saber in the other hand to counter-attack after closing the distance while still holding the whip in your protected hand, since if your opponent only had a single whip, if you manage to grab it, they have no other weapon? This could perhaps allow users of a single saber to defend against a whip? Such lightsaber resistant material isn't unfounded in the Star Wars Expanded Universe with things like cortosis.

Excellent reply and researching Sir. Although EU and therefore (to the best of my knowledge) non-canon I love this from a combat perspective. A light whip might require an entirely different Form of lightsaber combat not only to use effectively/master it, but as you agree simply to fight against. It's hard to even conceptualize defending against let alone attacking it's wielder without specialized training or equipment.

Also commenting on the original idea of this topic, a lightsaber with a curve ignites the katana lover in me. With a lightsaber it would be less applicable in the realm of cutting but retain interesting aspects of deflecting/parrying enemy blades. To that end I suppose it would really need a guard as well.

Thank you. Here’s a video of the person with the home made light whip for reference. It’s very cool I’d say.
 https://youtu.be/atW_y8wJWjI (https://youtu.be/atW_y8wJWjI)

And I don’t see why a katana saber wouldn’t work. You wouldn’t gain any benefits in terms of cutting as you said, but you also wouldn’t inherit any of the negatives it seems, in that there’s no “dull edge” so you could use it like a katana and only strike with the traditional blade edge, but also with the back edge, since a lightsaber really has no “edge.” The only thing I can think of would be that blocking/parrying opponents could be different depending on which side of the blade you strike with. But as was the case with the light whip, if you practice with it, and your opponent did not practice against it, that’s another advantage for you. So even if a curved blade isn’t objectively better, so long as it remains functional, which it should be, it may be just different enough to give you an edge in combat against an unprepared opponent with no training against that variant.

Oh yea, that video is cool, link is appreciated. The user obviously was doing it for demonstration purposes only, not (like in MA training) treating it like a weapon; at least not in the sense of it being a lightsaber. Being careful not to injure themselves or others in the literal sense. But some fingers would have been seared off on missing the hilt after the toss. And wrapping the blade around yourself obviously a no-go from our frame of reference. But in terms of a light whip type of Shien (I suppose), if you have the hilt above your head and spin the blade around yourself it'd probably deflect a crazy amount of incoming blaster fire. I love new weapons ability to inspire new shifts in combat mechanics. But it also just makes me want to see a Githany cosplay, but that's just me.

Exactly. She's not treating it as a light-whip, so she didn't have any intention of avoiding the "light" part of the whip. I have no doubt that she'd be excellent at using it as a light-whip if that was her intention though. She has a video where she whips an Aspirin capsule off a bottle with a whip, some videos whipping arrows out of the air (to her side, not heading straight at her, but still quite impressive), etc.

It is very intriguing how different light-weapons can majorly change things up, and how a given weapon can gain totally new qualities and drawbacks when it becomes adapted into a light-weapon. A Githany cosplay would be sweet, especially by someone skilled with a whip who actually treats their whip in the way they'd treat an actual light-whip.

No joke, that's the kind of person with skill and dedication to improve that I'd love to network with. On the off chance she's a SW fan, connecting her with the Masters here and possibly even ultrasabers would have sooo much possibility. Defining technique/style/Forms for a light whip, having mutual benefit from a serious design for a customized (and probably gorgeous) light whip that looks authentic. She might appreciate it and they could sell them, maybe corner the market for a while. I know it's all just theory, but such exciting possibilities for tech development, stage combat/sparring, even canonizing the weapon if it gained enough momentum. Guess these are the kind of things I live for. Guess I internalized Darth Traya's lessons on sending ripples through the Force. Topple the right domino and the result can be astounding.

I completely agree with you. Someone like her would be a great asset to the community, and perhaps to saber vendors as well, by attracting a potential new audience of people who use whips and are Star Wars fans. I mean, I just recently ventured into the world of lightsabers by means of first using LED nunchucks, so the more different weapons and skills that can be branched out to include light-weapons, the more potential audience, and customer base, there is. I wonder if she is a Star Wars fan. If we're talking about the astounding ripples a single domino can make, who knows, maybe it even opens the door to a lightwhip wielding character in a live-action Star Wars show or movie? People seem to quite enjoy the exotic sabers we've seen in live-action so far, and saberstaffs, the crossguard saber, and the Dark Saber aren't nearly as exotic as a lightwhip would be.

Hi there,

Well in regards to a light whip I did model a Zygerrian Electro whip a few months ago so a "realistic" hilt handle shouldn't be too hard for Ultrasabers to come up with.

(https://ftsabersite.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/zyg-whip-bronze-1-mk.png)

If you want to see more pictures plus a short animation check out this link:
http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=40017.msg766696#msg766696 (http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=40017.msg766696#msg766696)

Very nice. I think they could totally pull that hilt off. I know there was another vendor that had a lightwhip at one point, but I've heard it's quality and functionality as an actual whip wasn't exactly optimal, and I'd think that a HUGE part of making an awesome saberwhip would be it actually functioning as close to a real whip as possible, so it can be actually used for demonstrations and even sparring, as opposed to "just" mostly cosplay purposes.

Hi SirLiftaLot

Thank you very much. I know of the product you are referring to and I know someone who purchased it and your fears are well founded. The fibre optic used is just too brittle and the junction where the cable threads into the blade plug adaptor is just too weak. Also the other vendor states that the whip can't be used with hilts featuring slanted emitter openings or claws which kinda hints at how delicate they are.

Pretty cool (as always) Tyeth. I agree it must be difficult coming up with a practical working model. And this probably further limits attempts made from a supply & demand standpoint. Being a very exotic, and potentially dangerous variant conceivably can limit initial interest/customer base, making investing in fabricating the best prototype not viewed as a cost effective endeavor. In that demonstration video it looks like the last foot or more of the whip isn't illuminated. This could be design related, or as I suspect likely the result of "impacts" stopping the LED's from functioning properly. Especially since the insulating effect of a "standard" blade tube isn't present due to shape & flexibility of a/this whip. I'm not anywhere near technical knowledge required to overcome that issue either. But yes, I agree LiftaLot, it'd be wicked to see a character wielding something like this in movies/shows if enough interest is generated. Also I gotta say I highly doubt Disney or even before that GL would do/have done such a thing. It's just my opinion, but this'd be a brutal weapon. It's a slice & dice your enemies kind of thing, or conduct several strokes around yourself at multiple enemies in rapid succession and when you stop the "cool effect" of them sliding into pieces happens. Probably wind up a little R-rated for excessive violence if choreographed into a large scale fight scene. Not very Disney or cartoon like in this regard. Ending up being more so classified as a Sith weapon since it's hard to not be destructive with it, unless fighting droids.

You bring up some very good points. A lightsaber, at least the ones we have access to (I'm looking at you Hacksmith Industries) pose minimal danger to the user; not really much more than a hard pole or stick would. Even an "exotic" saber like a staff is just a bigger hard stick. I have no experience with whips, but I know that, for example, the barrier to entry for light-chucks is a good bit higher than that of a lightsaber, as it's a lot easier to bang yourself up pretty good with a shaft of metal that's spinning freely in a way that an inexperienced user may not be able to predict or anticipate. I can only imagine that a whip would pose a fair bit of risk as well, especially if it's actually a strong/durable material, both to the user and especially to anyone who tries to spar with or against it.

Now that you mention it, a lightwhip could look incredible on-screen in a less child-friendly film/show. I'm thinking something similar to when Trunks sliced up Frieza's soldiers and then they fell down when he sheathed his sword, and the last one's armor falls to pieces. You know what, even if we don't get an R-rated live-action movie/series, I would still greatly enjoy a more R-rated animated series with anime-style epic fights.

Jedi tend to want to have defensive options to protect others, and the lightwhip seems to be purely an offensive weapon, with incredible range and the ability to destroy multiple targets in said area. Most assuredly a weapon better suited for a Sith I'd agree. And for it to fully live up to its potential on-screen, I agree it would have to be reflected as such, a purely offensive weapon of destruction.

It almost seems like a sort of Catch-22 here, if I'm using the term correctly. I don't think we're likely to see vendors sell lightwhips unless they get more popular and more attention. But I don't see that happening unless they end up on a show. But I don't see them actually being featured on a show unless they get more interest, which I don't see as being particularly likely to happen. I suppose someone making a quality one and going viral with it would be one of the only ways for it to gain traction, unless I guess a show-runner/producer/etc. just happens to be a fan of the more obscure, exotic weapon.

Points for the Trunks VS Mecha-Frieza reference. Yes, that's what I was envisioning (also shown in many action movies, beyond count) like the anime/video game/movie concept. Lightning fast cuts, and in those cases as they sheathe the blade physics seems to catch up and gravity plays it's part. I also agree that this almost highly visceral combat has it's appeal in society but it's certainly not PG-13 or below visually (in my estimation). Making it likely to be relegated to fan fiction productions or something more HBO oriented. Basically SW content geared toward adult fans more exclusively, not cartoon clone wars in the slightest. Although I say the last part ignorant of the actual content of that series since I didn't watch it at the time for my own reasons. That said, the light whip would probably be way more Tarantino than current SW universe might find acceptable in it's more likely applications. But playing devil's advocate, the degree of control required could still lead it to being used/taught by Jedi just limited/restricted like Vaapad. Almost a "do no harm, unless absolutely unavoidable" like Jedi mindset often dictates. Targeting another saber wielder's hilt, blasters, or coiling it around and severing an AT-ST leg. Giving it range advantage over traditional sabers like a lightsaber throw but having the added benefit of keeping the weapon in physical contact with the user. So it wont get knocked off some cliff or down a maintenance shaft in the process.

Sorry, I had to add that light whips are lots of fun.

(http://i.imgur.com/tTaVLWt.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/gr3VZXN.jpg)


(http://i.imgur.com/zkvtZlL.jpg)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKbc7ObVxU4&list=PLBwv0fRLv6sjMR7qaRp8RrGnm8lpJKkIR&index=10# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKbc7ObVxU4&list=PLBwv0fRLv6sjMR7qaRp8RrGnm8lpJKkIR&index=10#)

No need to be sorry in the slightest. Glad to have your input, since this is the kind of thing I am interested in; it's what we were discussing. If you built/modified it yourself or with a friend that's exceptionally cool. If not, and it falls into the category of some production from "the other guys" then I believe we'd have to halt speaking of specifics there... Lest we violate the rules. I'm not an expert in that realm, and I wouldn't advocate anything like that or advertising (since it seems like that's not the case). So, I'll just have to wait for a bit more info from you Kaiser. Until that point I will just say you obviously get where I was coming from since that certainly looks like a Sith light whip.

If it's yours I wonder what kind of things you can pull off with it?
How long did it take to get comfortable with?
Did you train with a target or is it mostly for demos/entertaining people?

Those kind of questions come to mind.
Anyway definitely deserve -1 point reward for a clear Dark Side example of what I/we were busy discussing.

So the short answer is I made the whip myself. I made it after buying one from the other guys. Theirs was not very bright and broke all the time.

Here is a link to a whip building thread. Sorry I deleted the pictures but the info on how and what I did is here...
http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=40709.30 (http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=40709.30)

The ones I've made have not broken and are about a year old.

The only experience I have with a whip is playing with my six year old son. So none! It is still really fun.


To clarify, my son also has a couple of sabers! I'm not just whipping him! We are playing.
Also the acrylic rod I used has two real benefits.  It holds the cable tightly for the whole length of the plug. That makes it less likely to twist and break. It also keeps the fiber optic cable pointed directly at the light for max illumination.  I went with an 8mm cable. I often wonder if a 10mm cable would have been better. More cable means more weight and maybe more realistic.  The thicker diameter cable would also carry more light.

I applaud you for sharing this knowledge, it is truly appreciated. Not to mention I'm impressed by your work. It shows ingenuity and a stylish design. If I can find it within me to muster the effort I'd love to construct something like that. I've got enough experience with a 6-7 foot bull whip to want to try this out badly. Glad you made that several steps closer to a possibility. It's also great you were able to amuse your son with it, and that he has his own fun with his lightsaber. May the Force serve you well Kaiser.

That is amazing. Thank you for sharing. Definitely do not apologize for that skill and creativity.

The homemade lightsaber whip was nice. But a curved bladed lightsaber sounds unnecessary. Why mess with what works perfectly well?

Just a mechanics thing, for/from katana enthusiasts. Blade dynamics. Or at least that was the main part of my rationale originally, the rest was the extra exotic weapons love/craving. I mean it'd allow for lightsaber scimitars and things like that too. Or hook blades even... fun possibilities.

Okay true. But what about more practical reasons? One needs those too.

Tell that to the Darksaber. It changed up the typical blade design. Sure, it’s not necessary, but sometimes slight deviations, like the curved hilt, can throw off an opponent enough to give you an advantage. Plus it also has the added benefit of looking interesting, which can add to the intimidation factor, or just to stand out a bit. With a real sword, you have to worry with edge alignment, like with say, a katana, it only cuts in one direction, while some swords cut in two directions. A lightsaber has no cutting edge, so cuts in all directions on the “blade.” So if a curved bladed lightsaber retains Omni-directional cutting potential with the addition of curved blade, then it can lose no real potential and gain some different style to throw off unprepared opponents.

The Darksaber (although I do like it) breaks my mind everytime I look at it. Does it retain the ability to cut in every directions though? How does the blade can even have this shape??

The problem with the darksaber is it was never meant to be a lightsaber...it was supposed to be an ancient Vibro Blade.  But Lucas did not like the idea of something other than a lightsaber going against a lightsaber...even though EP III had the magma guards using electro staffs but whatever.  But most of the initial Animation had been done so they had to come up with the Darksaber to still use the animations.  Now they have had to retroactively figure out a history and function.  I do have a theory and this is coming from someone with no science or engineering background so it may just sound like bullcrap.  Sabers are plasma contained in an electromagnetic field which seems to take the shape of the emitter.  Round hilts with round holes produce rounded blades...so maybe the flatter angled emitter creates the flat angled blade.  But again, just a dumb dumbs theory.

Yeah... I've heard about that Lucas thing before... This is sad really. Since it is the case in most video games... AND, as you said, in EP3. But whatever. That way, the Darksaber is easier to carry around than a real sword =D

I know, I loved vibroswords and vibroblades in games... I remember the first time I faced someone wielding one while I had a lightsaber I thought "sure you clown, do you know what you're doing? Lightsaber trumps ALL punk! You are about to get messed up! I'ma cut through your little knife like butter and you with it." Then I proceeded to be horribly wrong, get stabbed and cut repeatedly, and reload my save file with a dumbfounded look on my face... I was in shock, and my arrogance/feeling of advantage in the situation proved to be my undoing when they could keep up with my strikes and parry them. Lightsaber resistant materials do break your mind at times, but dang if it can't be effective against a Jedi or Sith who is unaware or overconfident for sure. I loved echani vibroblades, and their culture... but can't cry over that spilt milk I suppose, EU lore still floats around out there. I guess nothing is ever really off the table till it is ruled so these days... Final say rests in those hands, and even then Legends will remain as what they will.

I mean it's hard to say a weapon called a Lightsaber can't bend or have a curve when light by definition does or can be made to. I mean we're talking a theoretical level of tech beyond our level of reasoning in several respects at many times. So if they can create functional plasma blade, I don't think it's impossible or multitudes harder possibly to make one curve. Although true, one could easily ask why... People do some ludicrous things with their lightsabers anyway. Part of me really loves that, some of the "innovations" are just cool. Even if some fall flat, others make kids or adults go "OH, oh that I like, I want THAT now." So it isn't all bad. Though even I now and again go "no, oh no!" The design concept with side emitters that created a cross guard were seemingly ludicrous and wild at one point, but also addresses many duelists' desire/necessity for a hand guard IRL let alone dealing with an incoming blade that can instantly take away appendages with no real force in theory. So I guess I mostly now want to see or test out the practicality of various designs now before final judgement. Since if I can shred with it, it tends to get a higher approval rating.

From a Star Wars magicky perspective, that would work. However, if Logos were here he'd tell you all the reasons why that isn't how it works.

Yea..we've gone around the bush on this subject.  The science of Star Wars I never cared about....its the mysticism.  Without the Jedi,Sith, Force I really wouldn't care about Star Wars to be honest.  That's why everyone now wanting "regular" characters to take the spotlight irks me.

Oh yeah the Jedi and the Force are the best parts of the series.

True. I think the science isn’t exactly “hard science” either, as we don’t truly know the rules and limitations of the universe, only what has been shown to be possible, which varies from era to era and from canon to EU/legends. Maybe something hasn’t been done not because it’s impossible but because no one wanted to, or saw any need to. Until we saw the Darksaber, would we have thought that shape of lightsaber blade was possible? Or a lightwhip before it was revealed? Even in a non-saber capacity, the Star Forge’s capability vs what we saw in the canon OT movies is vastly different. We don’t know that most things are actually impossible, only that we have never seen them for whatever reason, for most things anyway, IMO. The writers could introduce anything tomorrow and it’s canon, and they can give a new explanation, expand on old info, or even just ignore or handwave away an explanation. It’s not like actual hard science. Just my $0.02 from an engineering background perspective.

While I like seeing stories from the POV of "normies", they really aren't terribly interesting if the Force is not somehow a part of the story, and not just in some overarching "the Force is everywhere" kinda thing, but directly influencing things. Jedi, Sith, Force Users who are neither, but have access to the Force even if they don't understand it, that is the kind of thing I want. I didn't hate Solo, but that was really its biggest issue. Star Wars has never been Science Fiction, it has always been Science Fantasy, and that is an important distinction. You can't have fantasy without magic. That being said, I'm actually really excited for the Cassian Andor show. I'm more excited for that than Ahsoka, and most the others in all honesty.

Very well said. Some great writers have really delivered in the interesting idea department for sure. That's what makes the Legends so great IMO. Not simply trying to "make a hit" or cash in on profitability, but fleshing out an amazing concept or story in a fantastic telling; that then becomes film worthy or spawns a game worth playing. Give me a game with Githany and a lightwhip and I'm saying I'll play it to see the mechanics, and go through the story. Or a dang book with backstory... but that's all for another time and topic I suppose.

I also agree with the "why focus on 'normal' people if it's SW..." mentality. To an extent yes, it's interesting seeing how normal people can still effect the story, influence the outcome (even surrounded by Titans or supremely powerful individuals) it's noteworthy at times to view their courage, bravery, sacrifice, and so on... but yes, it's the "real battle" or serious Force users that carry the day or make it more often than not intriguing. True, seeing how some droids can change the galaxy, or a "common smuggler" can change or effect change can be interesting. But the Force, and the more epic moments tend to sell it overall with the rest being subplot or side arcs, and I tend to agree it should stay that way as well. Without that it's more a SW spinoff or something.

Thanks. I do suppose even a non-force user could end up playing an important role in major events through the will of the force pushing them into the right place at the right time, but they really should, and usually do, end up teaming up with, and facing off against, people who do use the force, which keeps it grounded in the Star Wars universe, and, as has been said, science fantasy, not just science fiction. It can be argued that the Mandalorians are interesting because of their conflicts with the Jedi, and their contrast to force users. It's their contrast to the Jedi and even the Sith that makes them interesting in the Star Wars universe. Same with the bounty hunters. Seeing them compete with Jedi and Sith, powerful force users, though technology, skill, and cunning. Sci-fi bounty hunters are cool, sure, but sci-fi bounty hunters fighting warrior monks is even cooler.

We got the Mandalorian so the creators are listening to the fans.

Agreed. If you want regular characters, go watch another space opera thingy. Like Star Trek.

I agree. StarWars is about the Force and Lightsabers, Jedi and Sith.