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General Chat => Movies, TV, and Music => Topic started by: Infinit01 on April 27, 2021, 05:04:20 AM



Title: Yasuke | Netflix
Post by: Infinit01 on April 27, 2021, 05:04:20 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijKAtzQY1wc# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijKAtzQY1wc#)


Title: Re: Yasuke | Netflix
Post by: Darth Tepes on April 27, 2021, 05:41:01 AM
Interesting they are using the story of Yasuke in such a way.  With the supernatural elements and such but they did the same thing with William Adams in the video game Nioh.  For historical context, Yasuke was a real person and the first of recorded Foreign born Samurai.  There were at least ten we know of for sure (one African, four Korean, one Dutch, One English, One Chinese, One Italian and One Prussian).  Also remember "Samurai" doesn't always mean a warrior running around in battle with armor and a Katana.  In terms of Yasuke, he was given the honor and right to wear a sword but was Sword Barer for Nobunaga...meaning he was in charge of carrying and caring for Nobunaga's swords.  Which of course in Japanese culture was a pretty high honor.


Title: Re: Yasuke | Netflix
Post by: Beeblebrox on May 01, 2021, 03:49:42 PM
I posted this trailer on the first of April and no one seemed to notice it. Oh well, luckily people caught it this time.
Interesting they are using the story of Yasuke in such a way.  With the supernatural elements and such but they did the same thing with William Adams in the video game Nioh.  For historical context, Yasuke was a real person and the first of recorded Foreign born Samurai.  There were at least ten we know of for sure (one African, four Korean, one Dutch, One English, One Chinese, One Italian and One Prussian).  Also remember "Samurai" doesn't always mean a warrior running around in battle with armor and a Katana.  In terms of Yasuke, he was given the honor and right to wear a sword but was Sword Barer for Nobunaga...meaning he was in charge of carrying and caring for Nobunaga's swords.  Which of course in Japanese culture was a pretty high honor.
If you didnít have to look that up (I get the feeling you didnít), then I am very impressed. Thatís about all I know about the man but most people donít even believe he existed when I tell them about him. Very impressive, sir.


Title: Re: Yasuke | Netflix
Post by: Darth Tepes on May 07, 2021, 07:30:40 AM
I posted this trailer on the first of April and no one seemed to notice it. Oh well, luckily people caught it this time. If you didnít have to look that up (I get the feeling you didnít), then I am very impressed. Thatís about all I know about the man but most people donít even believe he existed when I tell them about him. Very impressive, sir.

Well I had to look it up at one point..lol.  But History is a passion of mine...all history.  Espeiclaly finding the deeper facts and truths that get glossed over, altered or just forgotten no matter how controversial.  I found out about Yasuke after researching William Adams (the English Samurai under Tokugawa) which lead to the others.


Title: Re: Yasuke | Netflix
Post by: Beeblebrox on May 07, 2021, 08:28:43 AM
Well I had to look it up at one point..lol.  But History is a passion of mine...all history.  Espeiclaly finding the deeper facts and truths that get glossed over, altered or just forgotten no matter how controversial.  I found out about Yasuke after researching William Adams (the English Samurai under Tokugawa) which lead to the others.
YeahÖ I guess I had to look it up at one point too. lol. Iím interested in all history but I was given aÖ letís just say, less than stellar education. As such, I really only know about subjects that directly interest me that I studied on my own, and Japanese history is one of them. Iím clearly not that knowledgeable though as Iíve only heard that the other foreign samurai existed, but I know nothing about this William Adams. You mentioned that both Yasuke and William are represented in the game ďNiohĒ which I own but havenít gotten around to yet.
Is there much historical accuracy to their characters in the game? It seemed like a fantasy game from what little Iíve seen.

Oh, and have you played Ghost of Tsushima? I think itís one of the best games ever personally but I know some super purists that canít get over the fact that it takes place around 100 years (I think) before the invention of the Katana despite it being your main weapon. Itís historical fiction basically but itís damn good if you know what is or is not accurate and just go with it anyway.


Title: Re: Yasuke | Netflix
Post by: Darth Tepes on May 07, 2021, 09:39:13 PM
YeahÖ I guess I had to look it up at one point too. lol. Iím interested in all history but I was given aÖ letís just say, less than stellar education. As such, I really only know about subjects that directly interest me that I studied on my own, and Japanese history is one of them. Iím clearly not that knowledgeable though as Iíve only heard that the other foreign samurai existed, but I know nothing about this William Adams. You mentioned that both Yasuke and William are represented in the game ďNiohĒ which I own but havenít gotten around to yet.
Is there much historical accuracy to their characters in the game? It seemed like a fantasy game from what little Iíve seen.

Oh, and have you played Ghost of Tsushima? I think itís one of the best games ever personally but I know some super purists that canít get over the fact that it takes place around 100 years (I think) before the invention of the Katana despite it being your main weapon. Itís historical fiction basically but itís damn good if you know what is or is not accurate and just go with it anyway.

Oh no LOL  not accurate at all.  Pure fantasy but using the names.  I want to play GoT but as I don't own a Current Gen Playstation I can not.  Yea its full of Anachronisms since they are using the Feudal Era Samurai which was much further into the future than the Time Period the Mongol Invasions happened.  At that time "Samurai" was a rank that could be obtained through deeds and good will of a lord (as opposed to a Class as it became later).  Also at that time Samurai were mainly Calvary and their Swords were either straight bladed or the deeply curved Tachi.  It was in fact the Mongol invasions that stirred them to the creation of the Katana. 


My love of history comes from my love of weapons.  I sought info on how they were made and used which lead to the men that used them which lead to why they used them etc.  One thing though that irks me is historians that do not even attempt to learn about arms and armor and spout myths as fact.  Because they are historians people believed them.   Example:  Was watching a documentary sometime ago about the Battle of Hastings in 1066 (major Battle, changed Europe).  Now the stuff shirt historian was talking about the political and societal elements leading up to the battle..... all good and correct info.  But then he leads into "These men were swinging heavy swords weighing about 9lbs.  Full freaking stop...No Sword, in any country, in any time period weighed 9lbs.  But this myth persists and we in the Arms and Armor community get so aggravated at it.


Title: Re: Yasuke | Netflix
Post by: Beeblebrox on May 07, 2021, 11:42:47 PM
My love of history comes from my love of weapons.  I sought info on how they were made and used which lead to the men that used them which lead to why they used them etc.  One thing though that irks me is historians that do not even attempt to learn about arms and armor and spout myths as fact.  Because they are historians people believed them.   Example:  Was watching a documentary sometime ago about the Battle of Hastings in 1066 (major Battle, changed Europe).  Now the stuff shirt historian was talking about the political and societal elements leading up to the battle..... all good and correct info.  But then he leads into "These men were swinging heavy swords weighing about 9lbs.  Full freaking stop...No Sword, in any country, in any time period weighed 9lbs.  But this myth persists and we in the Arms and Armor community get so aggravated at it.
Most of what Iíve learned about history stems from my interest in weapons as well. I know what you mean about getting ticked off by some ďhistoriansĒ. Iíve seen similar offenses in documentaries myself. Iím no expert by any means but I used to work in a shop selling everything from Claymores and battle axes to hand forged folded Katana and I became fairly familiar with a bit of everything. Please correct me if Iím wrong (itís very possible) but wouldnít the absolute heaviest Zweihander come CLOSE to around 9lbs? If Iím not mistaken they wouldnít have been used in that particular battle anyway though.

Ever seen the Norimitsu Odachi?
(https://i.imgur.com/7Bbbgf7.jpg)
Itís somewhere around 30lbs BUT being that itís an anomaly that could never be considered even close to practical for use, I donít count it and your point still stands.

-1 for the history lessons and weapon knowledge.


Title: Re: Yasuke | Netflix
Post by: Darth Tepes on May 09, 2021, 05:14:27 PM
Most of what Iíve learned about history stems from my interest in weapons as well. I know what you mean about getting ticked off by some ďhistoriansĒ. Iíve seen similar offenses in documentaries myself. Iím no expert by any means but I used to work in a shop selling everything from Claymores and battle axes to hand forged folded Katana and I became fairly familiar with a bit of everything. Please correct me if Iím wrong (itís very possible) but wouldnít the absolute heaviest Zweihander come CLOSE to around 9lbs? If Iím not mistaken they wouldnít have been used in that particular battle anyway though.

Ever seen the Norimitsu Odachi?
(https://i.imgur.com/7Bbbgf7.jpg)
Itís somewhere around 30lbs BUT being that itís an anomaly that could never be considered even close to practical for use, I donít count it and your point still stands.

-1 for the history lessons and weapon knowledge.

The Larger Two Handed swords (literally what Zweihander means lol.... such an original name) indeed would show up much later than 1066.  Swords in 1066 would have been some of the first after the evolution from the Viking Era and would have been single handed meant to be used with a Shield.  Their weights would be between 2-3lbs.  Yes the later 2 handed swords were heavier (some were over 6 feet in length) but the heaviest I have ever heard of being found was 7 lbs...and that was rare.  Average was 5lbs.  Its hard to pin down where the myth of European swords being heavy clubs (when in fact the represented great advancements in metallurgy) but there are a few theories.  One is simple people who have never held one or had any training picking one up and thinking its heavy simple because of the unfamiliar weight...not taking in account the men wielding these would have usually had years of training.  Second Theory is that once Olympic/Sport Fencing became a thing the gap between those fencers and warriors/soldiers using Arming, hand and a Half and two handed swords was at least 3 centuries.  So while a rapier and an arming sword weigh nearly the same...it distributed differently.  So these fencers used to one way of fighting picked up something meant to be used differently and found it odd...and dismissed it as crude (same can be said for Japanese Swordsman).  Thirdly, many of the swords in museums (at one time at least) are either reproductions meant to look good only or ceremonial weapons...both of which can be heavier than battle weapons.  Personally I tend to think its a bit of all three.  To this day so much history is distorted by myths.  Recently a Norse settlement was found ( I cant remember where now and cant find the article...damn getting old) but it was in another country and they said it proved "Vikings" were rather sickly and weak.  They were trashed by the historical community because it was obviously a homestead with probably 2 families living there made up of farmers...not warriors.  it that kind of jump to conclusions that Irks me.  Fun Fact:  There was a giant sword swinging man who fought during the American Revolution.  His name was Peter Francisco..he was 6'8" and was personally gifted a Claymore by General Washington himself...which he is reported to have used to great effect in battle.


Title: Re: Yasuke | Netflix
Post by: Beeblebrox on May 09, 2021, 08:51:02 PM
The Larger Two Handed swords (literally what Zweihander means lol.... such an original name) indeed would show up much later than 1066.  Swords in 1066 would have been some of the first after the evolution from the Viking Era and would have been single handed meant to be used with a Shield.  Their weights would be between 2-3lbs.  Yes the later 2 handed swords were heavier (some were over 6 feet in length) but the heaviest I have ever heard of being found was 7 lbs...and that was rare.  Average was 5lbs.  Its hard to pin down where the myth of European swords being heavy clubs (when in fact the represented great advancements in metallurgy) but there are a few theories.  One is simple people who have never held one or had any training picking one up and thinking its heavy simple because of the unfamiliar weight...not taking in account the men wielding these would have usually had years of training.  Second Theory is that once Olympic/Sport Fencing became a thing the gap between those fencers and warriors/soldiers using Arming, hand and a Half and two handed swords was at least 3 centuries.  So while a rapier and an arming sword weigh nearly the same...it distributed differently.  So these fencers used to one way of fighting picked up something meant to be used differently and found it odd...and dismissed it as crude (same can be said for Japanese Swordsman).  Thirdly, many of the swords in museums (at one time at least) are either reproductions meant to look good only or ceremonial weapons...both of which can be heavier than battle weapons.  Personally I tend to think its a bit of all three.  To this day so much history is distorted by myths.  Recently a Norse settlement was found ( I cant remember where now and cant find the article...damn getting old) but it was in another country and they said it proved "Vikings" were rather sickly and weak.  They were trashed by the historical community because it was obviously a homestead with probably 2 families living there made up of farmers...not warriors.  it that kind of jump to conclusions that Irks me.  Fun Fact:  There was a giant sword swinging man who fought during the American Revolution.  His name was Peter Francisco..he was 6'8" and was personally gifted a Claymore by General Washington himself...which he is reported to have used to great effect in battle.
See, Iím terrible with dates and I didnít even think about when a Zweihander (super original name indeed. lol) would have been around. I was just thinking of where. I think youíre right about the weight distribution thing. I tend to favor Katana and find European swords harder to get comfortable with. It can absolutely be done though, I think itís just the weight distribution. I think that is where people get the misconception that they are crude. Iíve seen plenty of people make it clear that they are not crude weapons when used correctly with proper training. I admit that when I was much younger I thought that they were just simply inferior to Japanese swords but then I learned to not be so hung up only on what Iím initially drawn to and grow upÖ plus I got to spend some time doing some light training with a lot of them. I put actual time and training into the katana though.  Now I wish I could train with all swords. I would really like to learn the Chinese Dao. I never hear people talk much about Chinese swords.

Oh yeah, I finally started this show. Iíve only seen the first episode and Iím extremely distracted at all times lately but the art is good. I wish it was in Japanese and more realistic but itís pretty decent. Iíll definitely check out some more.  


Title: Re: Yasuke | Netflix
Post by: Darth Tepes on May 10, 2021, 03:51:16 AM
See, Iím terrible with dates and I didnít even think about when a Zweihander (super original name indeed. lol) would have been around. I was just thinking of where. I think youíre right about the weight distribution thing. I tend to favor Katana and find European swords harder to get comfortable with. It can absolutely be done though, I think itís just the weight distribution. I think that is where people get the misconception that they are crude. Iíve seen plenty of people make it clear that they are not crude weapons when used correctly with proper training. I admit that when I was much younger I thought that they were just simply inferior to Japanese swords but then I learned to not be so hung up only on what Iím initially drawn to and grow upÖ plus I got to spend some time doing some light training with a lot of them. I put actual time and training into the katana though.  Now I wish I could train with all swords. I would really like to learn the Chinese Dao. I never hear people talk much about Chinese swords.

Oh yeah, I finally started this show. Iíve only seen the first episode and Iím extremely distracted at all times lately but the art is good. I wish it was in Japanese and more realistic but itís pretty decent. Iíll definitely check out some more.  

I was the same way.  As someone born in the early 80s I got caught up in the Ninja/Samurai hype and spouted the often touted myths about the Katana being a lightsaber and able to cut through anything.  But as I got older and the Internet became more of a common tool I discovered my own flaws in logic. Its a sword...nothing more...nothing less.  It has its pros and cons like any other weapon.  Personally, I favor the Messer and Dane Axe.  But your right, often Chinese swords are looked.  I think because many martial arts films focus on the hand to hand or staff.


Title: Re: Yasuke | Netflix
Post by: DarthRondoudou on May 10, 2021, 04:57:35 AM
I was the same way.  As someone born in the early 80s I got caught up in the Ninja/Samurai hype and spouted the often touted myths about the Katana being a lightsaber and able to cut through anything.  But as I got older and the Internet became more of a common tool I discovered my own flaws in logic. Its a sword...nothing more...nothing less.  It has its pros and cons like any other weapon.  Personally, I favor the Messer and Dane Axe.  But your right, often Chinese swords are looked.  I think because many martial arts films focus on the hand to hand or staff.
That's why I was particularly interested in Crouching Tiger. Though, as someone born in the late 80's and still into the ninja/samurai sword, I've always been more interested in japanese weapons that say, jians, daos or three sections staffs (sanjiegun I believe?).
In the 2000's there were quite a few movies that showed chinese swords. But I'd say most of them can't be considered "historical use" of said swords ^^'


Title: Re: Yasuke | Netflix
Post by: Darth Tepes on May 10, 2021, 05:42:35 AM
That's why I was particularly interested in Crouching Tiger. Though, as someone born in the late 80's and still into the ninja/samurai sword, I've always been more interested in japanese weapons that say, jians, daos or three sections staffs (sanjiegun I believe?).
In the 2000's there were quite a few movies that showed chinese swords. But I'd say most of them can't be considered "historical use" of said swords ^^'

Quite.  The thing many fail to realize about Wuxia films is that most of its stars don't actually know Martial Arts in how we think of them.  Most are trained in Wushu and Stage Combat...neither are true combat arts, much like Western sport fencing.  So much of what you see in film would get you killed.  The Main two Exceptions that I know of (I'm sure there are others) is Donnie Yen...who is trained in Mutiple Combat Arts alongside the stage fighting (he once put 8 men in the hospital who accosted him and his girlfriend outside a club.  He also Broke Mike Tysons finger).  While not Chinese Hiroyuki Sanada (Ujio from The Last Samurai and Scorpion from the recent Mortal Kombatg) is another. 


Title: Re: Yasuke | Netflix
Post by: DarthRondoudou on May 10, 2021, 06:21:19 AM
Quite.  The thing many fail to realize about Wuxia films is that most of its stars don't actually know Martial Arts in how we think of them.  Most are trained in Wushu and Stage Combat...neither are true combat arts, much like Western sport fencing.  So much of what you see in film would get you killed.  The Main two Exceptions that I know of (I'm sure there are others) is Donnie Yen...who is trained in Mutiple Combat Arts alongside the stage fighting (he once put 8 men in the hospital who accosted him and his girlfriend outside a club.  He also Broke Mike Tysons finger).  While not Chinese Hiroyuki Sanada (Ujio from The Last Samurai and Scorpion from the recent Mortal Kombatg) is another. 
Agreed.
And now I love Donnie Yen even more.
Sad thing is, a realistic fight may very well disappoint regular viewers.


Title: Re: Yasuke | Netflix
Post by: Darth Tepes on May 10, 2021, 06:27:53 AM
Agreed.
And now I love Donnie Yen even more.
Sad thing is, a realistic fight may very well disappoint regular viewers.

Agreed.  We've already have seen this with Star Wars.  Dunno if you've started/finished Rebels so I don't want to say more otherwise.


Title: Re: Yasuke | Netflix
Post by: Beeblebrox on May 11, 2021, 12:03:44 AM
Quite.  The thing many fail to realize about Wuxia films is that most of its stars don't actually know Martial Arts in how we think of them.  Most are trained in Wushu and Stage Combat...neither are true combat arts, much like Western sport fencing.  So much of what you see in film would get you killed.  The Main two Exceptions that I know of (I'm sure there are others) is Donnie Yen...who is trained in Mutiple Combat Arts alongside the stage fighting (he once put 8 men in the hospital who accosted him and his girlfriend outside a club.  He also Broke Mike Tysons finger).  While not Chinese Hiroyuki Sanada (Ujio from The Last Samurai and Scorpion from the recent Mortal Kombatg) is another. 
Agreed.
And now I love Donnie Yen even more.
Sad thing is, a realistic fight may very well disappoint regular viewers.
Donnie Yen is hands down one of the most legit martial arts actors of all time. He seems like an all around genuinely good guy too. I assume he broke Tysonís finger on the set of Ip Man 3. lol. Classic.
I really like Hiroyuki Sanada as well. Iím going to just assume that if I know it yíall do to at this point but did you know that he was Sony Chibaís protege? I knew there was something I liked about him when I first saw him in The last Samurai and it was obvious that he had a martial arts background. He was also great in The Twighlight Samurai.


Title: Re: Yasuke | Netflix
Post by: Darth Tepes on May 11, 2021, 04:01:03 AM
Donnie Yen is hands down one of the most legit martial arts actors of all time. He seems like an all around genuinely good guy too. I assume he broke Tysonís finger on the set of Ip Man 3. lol. Classic.
I really like Hiroyuki Sanada as well. Iím going to just assume that if I know it yíall do to at this point but did you know that he was Sony Chibaís protege? I knew there was something I liked about him when I first saw him in The last Samurai and it was obvious that he had a martial arts background. He was also great in The Twighlight Samurai.

Yes, and I also saw somewhere that Tyson himself said he would be worried if he had to fight Yen in a real match as his speed and strength was incredible. 

I did know Sanada was Chiba's protťgť.  I also agree about The Last Samurai....I noticed his movements were much more precise and structured compared to the others...it was quite obvious he knew what he was doing.  Much like the first time I saw Episode I..... it was clear to me the guy playing Darth Maul knew what he was doing (of course I went on to become a fan of Ray)