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Author Topic: Serenity Form (Reverse Grip; Please Critique)  (Read 7895 times)
Darth Nonymous
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« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2013, 04:35:24 AM »


Can you expand on the ones that are right, and the ones requiring more thought?  Hell, at this point I'm just happy that I got something right.  Edison failed over 10,000 times before inventing the light bulb.  I think I'm ok with my results here.  Which isn't to say that I won't continue to pursue it.  I'm just going to take it a lot slower now that it's out there. 
This is important: You are not inventing the light bulb. This is a known tactic that has been explored in various parts of the world. There is a wealth of information out there. Don't start at the end. Things lead up to other things.

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I will agree that my inexperience is certainly a limiting factor.  As much as it allows me to think outside the box, so to speak, it also prevents me seeing the walls of the box, if that makes sense. 
Here is the thing, just because you are a novice does not mean you will think outside of the box. Most of the time novices will be marked by the inability to think outside the box because they have no idea what has already come before. Thinking outside of the box is a rare skill. The legend of the rank beginner schooling the masters is enduring but is evidenced only in small ways with specific points.

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I think the last statement here is probably spot on.  I have these thoughts in my head, but may not quite now how to properly express them.  Some will certainly change with more experience, as has been pointed out.
I will be interested what you will think of these videos, 2 or 3 year from now.

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As for where it came from, most of it came from experimenting, either with friends (when possible), by pushing myself to adapt known techniques to the grip , or, when those failed, trying to create something new to achieve the desired outcome.  The Leading Shoulder weakness came from sparring, for example, as did the thought about moving towards a thrust rather than away. 
So your idea of the shoulder weakness came from how many encounters? I would be concerned that it is  unsupervised. What was the level of the opponent? Many things will work on unskilled fighters with weapons.

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I had intended to state that I meant this as an addition to Forward Grip styles, rather than it's own standalone style.  I tried to address this in a previous post, but I think referring to RG as a Form was probably the wrong direction to take.  Hindsight is 20/20 right?   Either way, I'll focus on this more as I move forward.
What I mean is that I am not sure staying in rev grip position is even a very good idea to practice. If you are going to have any hope of using this in real sparring or competition, you will need to be able to switch it around in your hand at will. This is why I am not a fan of the rev grip guards. They kind of defeat the purpose and advantage.

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I think both of these are products of my inability to practice in a more open area at the moment.  My apartment is small, and the parking lot where I shot the Dulon is rarely that empty (that was about 8am).
That's not what I mean. You should be able to do it in tight spaces. That's where it is used. You body needs to be able to accomodate the loss of range of motion from the rev grip. Your steps need to be far more deceptive and adaptable and your coverage over your body needs to be greater. These are things that are trained with Shien in our system.

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I'll look into this one more.  I thought I'd covered it, but clearly I dropped the ball.  One thing I will say is definitely unconventional is the RG's ability to attack straight up, from bottom to top.  I accomplished this from both the Strong and Power Guards, though both presented their own sets of pros and cons.
Well, how could you possibly know what the unconventional attributes of it are if you are not aware of all the conventional attributes yet?

For instance, my preferred way of attacking from bottom to top is with the low guard into Sarlacc Sweep. I use it instead of rev grip in that it does not leave the head open to attack as much and a much longer reach. I know which move you are talking about, but the use of that is again, done in very close and is a trick strike to change up mechanics. It is also one of the  more common moves with the rev grip.

Conventional wisdom wil tel us that things will be reversed, but they aren't. They are changed entirely.

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Another one I thought I'd covered better than I did.  I'll keep looking at this one as well. 
Again, I think you lack the technical and mechanical knowledge here. You only know a very limited number of steps, tactics, and moves. One would not expect you to be able to figure this stuff out alone when it took centuries for us to accumulate the knowledge in the first place.



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Bluesky
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« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2013, 09:12:40 AM »

Hi there from Australia Grin

All there points covered here are well grounded; you have done a great job and are really encouraging and adding allot here. Having moved through the form I can say it is both flowing and awkward in parts but over all really expresses well its ideas.

I will start tomorrow going over the videos one by one. Today I wanted to work the form and feel out its kinks. Not all of the break down should be about yourself or your experience. Experienced people often lose because they anticipate and expect a professional reaction.

In fact what is often called inexperienced, I call 'fresh eyes'. Some of the RG theory is out and out wrong and yet keeps getting repeated and repeated. For example I am more then happy to stay long and mid-range with RG; the assumptions about RG are often out of old experiences. Yes RG loves to switch to FG and other grips but not out weakness.

Take for instance the Crown/Roof Guard - Both hands are holding the hilt; the RG grip is going to crash down with power and strength and almost as much reach as FG. It is happy to play with you here and happy to test strength for strength; as it cuts down it might change to FG or release for reach; whatever it does it does for clear reasons.

Modern fencers are often incorrectly criticized by older fencers; the new style seems less complicated and basic and yet it is more successful and dynamic; same with chess, same with RG. I would challenge the thinking about RG and keep pushing 'Beginners to give it a go'  Grin

Nothing is taboo...

You haven't just thrown it together out of ignorance you have done yourself proud. You did interesting things with interesting thrusts and concepts. The Tail guard that you use is a classic guard FG or RG. It attacks the center from the distance; the theory being you can control the center from the distance and gain chambering advantages. Also used from a horse...

The Tail Guard Theory and Practice

Attacks and defenses explode from the guard in Fg and RG; can you spot the RG?
Notice the fluid releases of the lead so that the rear hand can use its reach; because you emphasize one hand you lose much that is strong in RG Cry

RG uses all of these movements and concepts shown below.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOU9jLLMw0Y" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOU9jLLMw0Y</a>


Your Power Stance is the most interesting point to really develop. If you restrict yourself to one guard; (for example the Crowned Ox: Hilt over the head the Ox horn pointing forwards and down onto their eyes; it can force rapid sensibility and awareness)

There is much that can be done there and expanded upon. The closer they are the more centralized one must become or give yourself more distance through footwork. The Tail Guard needs its space/time to harness its chambering. You can advance into your attack or side step depending on their range; stepping back allows the power to come through; it allows them to complete their motion and it is the most common step seen with the Tail guard because if your opponent can jam you they will. "From the Tail (Power) guard jump into your motion; give them no time, give them no space."

Your ideas are great; driving is interesting and I think what you are looking for is begun here. Read over the Intermediate RG theory I posted; how it moves around the circle allows for much that you are looking for. Having gone through your form I felt its serenity when I slowed it down and got a sense of how you are using the RG. If you have any written material could you throw it up on pro's and cons and I will try to use your definitions as much as possible. I am less concerned with stiffness or little pauses or hesitations or slight discrepancies - I am interested, like you, in growing the RG style and form and understanding, a good cause! Grin

Mobility overcomes power; watch the skill with which both parties moves and attack with their respective styles; RG in the end must be just as distinct as these in my opinion I would say a combination of both.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LnRwWdNjx8" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LnRwWdNjx8</a>


Doing it I felt some parts really needed a good rip of torque also I found myself using two hands where ever possible but I shall cover those for you and you can see what I mean. Over all it is creative and that is most important for discoveries to be made. Definitely play with the footwork in the Intermediate RG and see how they help.  Grin

Watch closely for the use of Guards to control the space/time and chamber for defense and attack? How many can you spot?
Who can find the Reverse Grip guard? When does it come up?

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0tgNEu9ddI" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0tgNEu9ddI</a>


Kind Regards
Bluesky
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Darth Nonymous
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« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2013, 11:36:37 AM »

The fact that these videos do not contain any rev grip kind of proves the point we make about it being a very limited technique. It is not used very much in sword play.

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Bluesky
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« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2013, 04:53:01 PM »

Hi there from Australia Grin

They show nicely in my opinion, the ideas of guards (Space/time), unique style (Variety of weapons and techniques showing that a style truly stands out as in the selected video), releases and the variety of sword play in general. Did anyone get what I was saying?

What you're saying doesn't make much sense, sorry; the videos were examples that fleshed out the ideas that I am trying to express - Not much difference between say the Plow FG and the Plow RG Grin

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i97NlcFYLSo" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i97NlcFYLSo</a>


Much more obvious examples of RG in this video - I wont spoil the fun for those who are looking to spot the RG in the other video but trust me the example is there. The video examples of RG are less developed especially the way I am advocating; that is why Oramac's videos are a very constructive step.

Reverse grip is an advanced/personal application/style in my opinion; FG and RG all flow contiguously together. Above each video I give a brief explanation as to the videos place and purpose. Take for instance the lunging thrust frozen in the first image; is it FG or RG or both?  Grin

I covered quite a bit in my post I hope you liked it? We share a common passion and love of the Jedi and the code...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQLubOuhVuM" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQLubOuhVuM</a>


Obviously I was aware of the RG examples were not prevalent; I was speaking about broader issues leaving everyone to switch say the roof/crown from FG to RG and get the point. You yourself have said you used RG in sword play (more then most) - I am honestly surprised to read: "The fact that these videos do not contain any rev grip kind of proves the point we make about it being a very limited technique. It is not used very much in sword play." How does one thing logically prove the other? Not sure that makes any sense in and of itself discounting it deliberately misses what I was contributing altogether about the RG. RG obviously needs development; I would love to see say 16 of your RG techniques written down so I could practice them.

I don't know why but there seems to be a slight discord here; if you once again don't agree with a point explain why; sniping doesn't help. I would enjoy it if I am wrong; I love the sword and its infinite complexity. I am happy to be wrong but if you think trying to develop RG theory and practice is a waste of time then what I am saying is definitely not for you. Grin

I think every voice helps especially with RG; "The fact that these videos do not contain any rev grip kind of proves the point we make about it being a very limited technique. It is not used very much in sword play." It is hard to objectively assess the form in my opinion (Maybe I am wrong?) if this is what you think about it and Reverse Grip? Please forgive any inference you haven't liked or discord; no disrespect is even in this post; if you find my words somehow offensive; I am sorry. What I am saying is just one persons thoughts and opinions and experiences. "An apple tree takes 5 years to grow." Maybe it will take that long to develop RG! Grin 

Help me to build up RG or show me the error of my ways; if I disagree it is a good thing, a blessing in disguise. Grin

This is where my heart and mind rest...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcEs1xACPA8" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcEs1xACPA8</a>


Kind Regards
Bluesky

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Oramac
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« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2013, 05:37:42 PM »

I can't see Youtube while at work.  I'll watch and respond to everything when I get home in a few hours.  Cheesy
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Darth Nonymous
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« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2013, 07:51:04 PM »

BLuesky,
 no snipe. It is your manner that makes it seem like you are claiming that rev grip was a persavisive in the Martial arts. When I make the claim that it's use is limited and VorNach points out that the sources you site have less information than you seem to be expressing, the natural conclusion is that you think that the Rev grip is more versatile than it really is. While I understand the concept of using other videos to explore concepts, these turn into tangents that don't make much sense. Which brings us back to my wish to keep the conversation more of a dialog of back and forth and less the my point your point thing.

For where I sit and how I am reading your posts I have come to understand your view of the rev grip being overtly maligned for no good reason and that the techniques and methods that I say are very  low percentage, are not as low percentage as I claim they are. If I am mistaken in that assumption, please state your position. But the way you post this is the impression I get.

I am sorry if you took it personally.

Also, do not take my comments and advice to Oramac as pertaining to you. I am giving him my perspective based on his level of ability or at least what I can see of it. I have not seen video of you and cannot speak to that. As for his video it relates to him and him alone.
 
And the way rev grip is practiced by me is with in a system. I can show you 16 different instances of it being used, but the training is an addition to previous training and strategy.  Learning to switch back and forth, when to switch, how and when to bind or push, the advanced application. The mere holding of the saber with the blade going the other way is an oversimplification.

We discuss a bit of the application of rev grip in this episode (I think, if not it is in one of the other ones on form V). It is related to the concept of folding.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMNL52TYghE" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMNL52TYghE</a>
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Bluesky
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« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2013, 10:08:32 PM »

Just calling it like I see it and I am not confused about what you have been saying.

A list of techniques is time honored in most books and treatise. Asking for your sound techniques is like collecting baseball cards, perfectly normal.

RG is prevalent all over the western and eastern world. It may not have the depth of attention but it is certainly passed on teacher to student.

I have not been taking it personally; I have been addressing real comments that relegate and show discord;

"I cannot take the time to read through a bunch of dense, hardly understandable writing when the purpose of what we are trying to do is get away from that kind of stuff. We want this to be as accessible as possible to as many people as possible."


Sword theory and writings upon its subject are rich and full and it seems that any thoughts that don't go along are summarily dismissed or criticized; I could go back and give you quote after quote after quote. Out of everything I said in the post you picked up on one illogical idea, I could explain why what you said was in error but there really is no need. - It is fine if you dismiss what I am saying out of hand or bring up an old discussion on references that went on for many posts where I showed case by case that all the old masters were fully aware of RG and its uses...

"I have no intention of learning entire new systems of martial arts."

"The fact that these videos do not contain any rev grip kind of proves the point we make about it being a very limited technique. It is not used very much in sword play."


I address what you say; there is no manner but respect in my posts.

I conceded the thinness of the resources, I know because I have researched them.

I said earlier; "In fact what is often called inexperienced, I call 'fresh eyes'. Some of the RG theory is out and out wrong and yet keeps getting repeated and repeated. For example I am more then happy to stay long and mid-range with RG; the assumptions about RG are often out of old experiences. Yes RG loves to switch to FG and other grips but not out weakness."

Defending an idea or Oramac is not an attack on you it is the balance of the ideas I discuss only.

White Wolf : "Master Nonymous, don't you think that a sort of "dense, hardly understandable writing" will crop up pretty often on here? Regardless of whether of not his words qualify for this definition. While your students and fans gain proficiency with this sword analog, then they will seek depth and specifics, and they will ask each other questions that may not make much sense, and they will give answers that may not make much sense. They will be skilled, and seek to explain that skill, and that is very very difficult. Very few will have the foresight and ability to put it into simple terms as you do. And I am very sincerely not trying to say 'Deal with it.' I'm asking you honestly what you think about this, and if your goal is to help people simplify their byzantine expressions using your systems."

What I have been talking about is the theory not you or myself. I posted the Jedi code because I seek honest discussion, debate and detailed theory. If you say RG is only for up close and I say I am happy to play mid-range and long that is healthy, good diversity; if I or others can give sound techniques that grows the understanding of RG your answer about why you can't post techniques does not discount our efforts; perhaps there is a mid-ground here.

I have been, I have seen and I have been whacked with RG from all sorts of masters in many styles of sparring, I know that counts for nothing so I let the theory do the talking. Join in and help me if I am wrong. Go over my discoveries and test them for yourself and show me where they falter, I have no problem with this:

" the natural conclusion is that you think that the Rev grip is more versatile than it really is." - I have been doing 1-2 hours for 5 days a week of RG training for over 6 months including my 25+ years experience and research and development. If you read all of my posts your conclusion is I am misinformed about the versatility of RG? Nothing new and informative or interesting or proficient? I ask this because if my efforts are not up to snuff then very little I share will be.

If all you want is conversational short puff posts that is fine. When I watch one of your videos have I ever given a walk through taking it apart piece by piece, mistake or error? No I have seen past those things to the spirit of what you are doing and given you standing ovation and encouragement. I get the impression you have not given fair weight to what I have been saying but that is fine for me also; each to their own.

"For where I sit and how I am reading your posts I have come to understand your view of the rev grip being overtly maligned for no good reason and that the techniques and methods that I say are very low percentage, are not as low percentage as I claim they are. If I am mistaken in that assumption, please state your position. But the way you post this is the impression I get."

I don't have the time to post a list of all the RG announcements of it being defeated, weak, limited, and so on. Imagine if I said the Chinese style is defeated by the Western? Maybe I am wrong and there is strong RG support? I don't post with a RG chip on my shoulder, yes I defend the RG but I also am posting my research and development for open correction and review.

I am an open book and am not always posting addressing the same issues so I don't think RG is maligned and post out of that state of mind, I am relaxed looking out over a valley right now. I am not trying to change minds by persuasion, my posts are long and bulky, I am trying to encourage and provide content. Let time prove the truth of it I say.

If i disagree with you on one thing it does not mean I disagree with you about everything, read my posts; Grin I see the truth and merit of much of what you say and do and would encourage people close enough to learn from you and your team.

I think the videos I post are very helpful in conveying ideas and ideas are powerful. Also videos well timed and placed makes long posts more flowing and interesting. I don't teach big classes anymore, but have enjoyed sharing. I am always learning new things, I could also share things with you that I don't publicly because what you do is amazing and I never de-edify ever.

"I have no intention of learning entire new systems of martial arts." Trying to develop the RG does not stop you from ignoring this effort.

I said; "It is hard to objectively assess the form in my opinion (Maybe I am wrong?) if this is what you think about it and Reverse Grip?" This is not me taking this personally but it is me being honest with you. I was intending on posting all of my research and development for everyone to share and use like an open buffet, if you read my posts after a while you will follow them relatively easy and where they don't make sense or could be improved let me know. Taking the time to post these 'dense' posts is not as easy as it sounds...

Just because a video shows the FG and the guards does that mean they are not also revealing things about RG. If what you say is fallacious I will say so, if I am wrong like with the topic of armor I will see the truth of it. I want to learn, there is no worry or concern or disagreement other then on what is said. If I post I am only trying to share and disseminate the knowledge for the world.

I would rather it be about the saber, our love of martial arts, helping the next generation to rediscover a love of the sword and the principles of the Jedi, I am sorry if my manner offends because I am trying to develop the RG theory and practice, I have been in schools all over Asia and Europe and seen RG used by teachers and students all over the world. I want it to go from technique to a sound style that can be specialized in after FG is understood.

Nothing I have done is perfect, no video perfect, no theory perfect, no words perfect, I would like you to just accept my humble efforts as the best I can do. I think Master VorNach's questions have made my posts better and his question about the guards helped me to better explain my development and ideas. The only reason I am contributing my many years here is because of your excellent videos and work and teaching.

I have no problem - Disagreement is not disagreeableness. I don't mind people breaking down my thoughts in detail and responding in kind; for me the discussion is vibrant and alive; White Wolf suggested that a warning be made to people who only want the milk because they are beginning and starting out. Just as I don't hyper-focus on mistakes in the videos for good reason; I focus on the positive aspects and encouraging asides. Go over my posts, do you really pick up a negative manner?

Kind Regards
Bluesky
Let us break bread together...
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Oramac
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« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2013, 11:47:05 PM »



1:04

Quote


2:20

Interestingly, both are the same picture, supporting the fact that there isn't a lot of historical data for the reverse grip.  This leaves 2 possible explanations, both of which logically show that RG warrants more study.  Option 1: Reverse grip simply wasn't heavily used and, therefore, never heavily experimented with.  If it was heavily experimented with, where are the historical pictures and/or writings (such as in the videos) showing it being defeated?  I've found plenty of people who say it sucks (not you, Master Nonymous, I know you use it), but none who show specific historical data.  Option 2: RG was used, and our records of it are missing/lost/destroyed/etc.  

In either case, it warrants more study.  I don't expect everyone to agree with me.  Nor do I much care.  I fully intend to study both forward and reverse grip as necessary, and in full understanding that neither is a standalone technique.  Also, as I said before, I find the RG experimentation to be fun, whether it yields fruit or not.   And at the end of the day, isn't fun what we're going for here?  We are using light up glow sticks of death, after all.
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« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2013, 11:56:20 PM »

Oramac, you hit the nail on the head. Either RG was not really employed or information has been lost/deleted/hidden. I tend to think the former rather than the latter, simply because of the number of systems that simply do not use it. That being said, you said the magical word: Experiment. That is all any of this is and it is constantly ongoing and never ending unless we personally end it.

Speaking of inexperience, I'm going to quote my Classics Professor: You must learn the rules before you can learn to break them. Experiment, assess, disregard what doesn't work for you and adapt until you find a point where you are happy. Then transmit to the world.

That being said, I want to see more of your experiments, and if you ever wanna to talk about Saber Forms and Lightsaber Combat in general, give me a call. You have done an amazing thing with this series of videos, very few have done it with the level of consideration as you have. I want to help make that in any way possible.
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« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2013, 12:10:21 AM »

Just calling it like I see it and I am not confused about what you have been saying.

.....; I focus on the positive aspects and encouraging asides. Go over my posts, do you really pick up a negative manner?

Kind Regards
Bluesky
Let us break bread together...
Look. I apologize for my hash tone. I too was calling like I saw it. Again I apologize. My inability to follow your post frustrated me and perhaps I let it come out in hostility. It was not my intent. I pop in and out of these forums as I am trying to keep up on everything that I have going on.

The fault is mine. I apologize.
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« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2013, 01:51:56 AM »

Hi there from Australia Grin

I too am sorry; I am responsible for turning all these old journals into something sensible and trying to pass on as much as I can into a compact format. Also as with any text its hard to convey my Aussie sense of humor and charm!!!  Shocked

Much is lost and much is transmitted from the ground up; a great reconstruction has occurred and many, many schools have duelists who will switch over and use RG. Does it cross the barrier from technique into style? Fun to explore and adapt and test.

I think the answer is yes to both sides of the position, yes knowledge has been lost; not necessarily hidden, and also yes it was not as prevalent to begin with, though I think every school had them like for instance TPLA has Master Nonymous Grin

I believe from having stood in the studios and worked across many different schools that every school had its RG practitioners. It was essential that FG be learnt and mastered; even with what we have here much has had to be reconstructed and interpreted. If you look widely you will see most guards illustrated at some point with a reverse grip. One work will show the Tail, another the roof, another the ox, just pieces but from having worked with people who live and breathe these western arts they left no stone unturned and had a very practical, disciplined mindset.

They were warriors that dedicated their lives to the sword and war; the video I gave last post with the lady knight had a European school displaying their arts and one person did the whole standard RG display. Compare this to the Techniques I posted in the beginners guide; less flash just strong movements that teach timing and distance and the mechanics of the guards and cuts.

Good points Uilos; like I said though the truth of it is a bit of both; lost knowledge and also it is not as used by everyone even in a school; even where the master is familiar with it. (Thailand uses a vicious RG style that is rarely seen at all by outsiders....)

In chess someone new who push the pieces around is called affectionately a 'woodpusher' ; years ago we came up with a similar term a 'steelpusher', as much as possible I strive to focus on everything having a purpose. Deception is the art of war but for me the intent must always be to cut.

Of course your professor is right Uilos and also the opposite is right, dogma accumulates in all schools of thought like chess or swordplay. To give an analogy from history: Capoeira.

Since the 16th century, Portugal extensively adopted slavery to provide labor for their colonies, transporting slaves mainly from West and Central Africa. Brazil, with its vast territory, was the major destination of African slaves, receiving 38.5% of all slaves sent by ships across the Atlantic Ocean.

Capoeira has a long and controversial history, since historical documentation in Brazil was scarce in the colonial era, but evidence and oral tradition leave little doubt about its Brazilian roots.

Capoeira is believed to be connected with tribal fighting called Engolo, from the Benguela Highlands region of Angola. In many tribes in Africa, there's the tradition of people that fight each other in order to acquire a bride or a desired women, in which a fight body to body, without weapons, is held inside a circle. It is very probable that many other tribes and cultures (totally lost or enslaved) once held the same traditions.

In the 16th century, Portugal had claimed one of the largest territories of the colonial empires, but it lacked people to colonize it, especially workers. In the Brazilian colony the Portuguese, like many European colonists, chose to use slavery to supply this shortage of workers. Spanish and English colonists tried to enslave Brazilian natives at first, but this quickly proved too difficult for many reasons, including the familiarity natives had with the land, which allowed them to escape and survive outside the settlements. The solution was importing slaves from Africa.

In its first century, the main economic activity in the colony was the production and processing of sugarcane. Portuguese colonists used to create large sugarcane farms called engenhos, which were dependent on the labor of enslaved workers. Slaves, living in inhumane and humiliating conditions, were forced to work hard and often suffered physical punishment for any small misbehavior. Even though slaves outnumbered the Portuguese colonists, the lack of weapons, the colonial law, the disagreement between slaves coming from different African cultures and the lack of knowledge about the new land and its surroundings usually discouraged the idea of a rebellion.

In this environment, capoeira was born not as a fighting style, but as a hope of survival. It was a hope of survival because they would say they were dancing when a colonist came along but really they were practicing fighting and preparing to fight back. A tool with which an escaped slave, completely unequipped, could survive in the hostile, unknown land and face the hunt of the capitães-do-mato, the armed and mounted colonial agents who were charged with finding and capturing escapees. So although they were outnumbering them without weapons they were hopeless but once they had learnt how to fight they could break free.

Necessity is the mother of invention and the reason I bring this up is I think that its footwork could bear greatly on the guards and ideas explored by the serenity form. I think Oramac you will be really interested in some of my thoughts and ideas to play around with Grin

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8leUqNJY1M" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8leUqNJY1M</a>


Try using Oramac's guards with these steps; very fun and different! Your form and guards is hopefully one of many people writing up their techniques and ideas and from this platform lots competence and theory.

There is much that I have experimented with that I have used time and again; like for instance the Rhythms of the Dance; I first learnt these from a beautiful ballet teacher named Mary who as it happened was a maestro with the Spanish art of La Verdadera Destreza. This is a deadly, and I mean deadly art. Destreza is a Spanish system of fencing. The word "destreza" literally means "skill." However, the full name is perhaps best translated as "the true art."

While Destreza is primarily a system of swordsmanship, it is intended to be a universal method of fighting applicable to all weapons. This includes sword and dagger; sword and cloak; sword and buckler; sword and round shield; the two-handed sword; the flail; and pole-arms such as the pike and halberd.

Its precepts are based on reason, geometry, and incorporate various other aspects of a well-rounded Renaissance humanist education, with a special focus on the writings of classical authors such as Aristotle, Euclid, and Plato. Authors on Destreza also paid great attention to what modern martial artists would call bio-mechanics. (For speed and efficiency I have turned to wiki but that is only the mere shadow of both Destreza and all arts)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-0MY2g9rhs" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-0MY2g9rhs</a>


I use these principles in all my rapier, long sword, and dagger including FG and most importantly RG. If you work the circle it will change your whole feeling for the space. RG needs the advantages of precise movement and angle. In my walk-through of the Form I think it will be at least entertaining!

Great job Oramac Shocked

Kind Regards
Bluesky
(Just a few ideas; could be wrong; I hope this stimulates your own great thoughts. New ideas are like light bulbs; you never know when one will need replacing!)

PS - I admire all of your hard work TPLA Grin
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Oramac
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« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2013, 02:18:14 AM »

Quote from: Ulios
You must learn the rules before you can learn to break them.


You are probably the 4th person in this thread alone to say this, or some variation of it.  I've already decided that since I have my RG work out here now, I'll slow down a bit with it and work on more of the basics of Shii-Cho.  That's not to say I'll stop experimenting with RG.  Far from it.  But I'll be redirecting my main efforts to "learn the rules to break", in a manner of speaking.



I have no idea what they were saying in the second video, but this one I REALLY like.  I actually blew like 15 minutes before I posted this fiddling around with the footwork in it.  

EDIT: I almost forgot.  Master Nonymous asked who I was sparring when I ran across the Leading Shoulder issue.  I don't know if he'd want his name on the forum, but he is a fencer.  He's actually on the forum too, but doesn't post much at all.
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Bluesky
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« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2013, 02:40:58 AM »

Hi Oramac from Australia Grin

One of points with CAP was that necessity is just as much a driver as rules; especially survival. In fact variety creates spontaneity and creativity; so often lacking here in Australia.

Practicing one does not stop the other; at the same time training to a plan under the guidance of a teacher is prudent.

Here is a sneak peak at my walk through I am writing it out first, slow, to try to make it less dense. As I practice I say the name out loud; over and over creating a dialogue; a wonderful trick I learnt fencing. I would love everyone to use the Oramac Guards with this footwork and feel how they interact. I bet that everyone is going to have allot of fun Grin

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8leUqNJY1M" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8leUqNJY1M</a>

Only posted again to separate it from the other thoughts of the last post.

1/ Basic CAP Footwork with Oramac Guards (Sorry the name just stuck in my head) Use his hand motions to create your high and low guards.
2/ D-cuts, H-cuts and A-cuts and then the continuation of the dance. Cutting from stance.
3/ D-cuts, H-cuts and A-cuts during footwork.
4/ Footwork with deep breathing, slow, stretching and gaze control. (Focus your gaze into a weapon)

This was enough to make me become drenched but feel good. I am developing my Ataru and this became foundational for my theory and practice!!! Grin
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And they live untouched by sorrow in the islands of the blessed along the shore of deep-swirling Ocean, happy heroes for whom the grain-giving earth bears honey-sweet fruit flourishing thrice a year, far from the deathless gods, and Cronos rules over them

— Hesiod,Works and Days (170)

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