Initiate V2 POB

[TheCharlax]

Greetings!  I'm prepping for a custom project; can anyone please provide me with the point of balance for an Initiate V2 with a 24-inch, Ultra Edge Heavy Grade blade? (I tried using an advanced search but the spec combinations gave me way too many random results)

Thanks in advance!

[firehand10k]

The point of balance remains variable and may differ between sabers with the same blade length and type. It will be affected by tip type, blade tube actual thickness rather than nominal thickness,  amount of diffusion film installed, position of batteries inside the hilt, and even brand of batteries used. You won't find any correct and definitive answer.

[TheCharlax]

That's a shame.  Ah well, I'll figure it out when the product arrives.  Thanks! ^_^

[DarthProdigal]

Greetings!  I'm prepping for a custom project; can anyone please provide me with the point of balance for an Initiate V2 with a 24-inch, Ultra Edge Heavy Grade blade? (I tried using an advanced search but the spec combinations gave me way too many random results)

Thanks in advance!

I'm curious now (if you feel like sharing) what your goal is. Are you trying to build a custom wall mount or stand? Is it costume/cosplay related... or just something functional like sheath construction? Maybe simply trying to order something like previously mentioned in the right dimensions ahead of time so they arrive at similar times?

[TheCharlax]

I'm curious now (if you feel like sharing) what your goal is. Are you trying to build a custom wall mount or stand? Is it costume/cosplay related... or just something functional like sheath construction? Maybe simply trying to order something like previously mentioned in the right dimensions ahead of time so they arrive at similar times?

This is a combination dueling and custom question. 

I've been dueling with non-lightsaber weapons for a number of years now, and when the POB is as close as possible to the hilt, the weapon is often easier to control for strikes, feints, flourishes, etc.  This comes at the cost of striking power, but as I understand it, the nature of lightsaber duels puts more emphasis on actually landing a blow, rather than the force behind it.  In theory, modding a hilt to have greater weight than the blade would shift the POB and grant a tactical advantage in lightsaber dueling (with the side-effect of making the weapon feel a bit more like a real lightsaber).

[DarthProdigal]

This is a combination dueling and custom question. 

I've been dueling with non-lightsaber weapons for a number of years now, and when the POB is as close as possible to the hilt, the weapon is often easier to control for strikes, feints, flourishes, etc.  This comes at the cost of striking power, but as I understand it, the nature of lightsaber duels puts more emphasis on actually landing a blow, rather than the force behind it.  In theory, modding a hilt to have greater weight than the blade would shift the POB and grant a tactical advantage in lightsaber dueling (with the side-effect of making the weapon feel a bit more like a real lightsaber).

True, and insightful. I was going to mention that, I concur your idea would indeed produce a more realistic feel, true to the SWU weapon.

Also yes, lightsaber combat for points is fundamentally similar to fencing or kendo in structure and point tallying toward a win. Speed and accuracy play huge roles of course so I'll be interested (as many probably would be) to see your finished modifications once you acquire your lightsaber.
The only real variation on the pure point system (I know of) would likely be if you free spar with someone or play some other sort of training game prioritizing points of contact each round or similarly negating certain ones. I find such exercises to be great at refining technique and control in different ways, especially when now your "opponent" knows before hand what target(s) you're going for... my sensei had us participate in such drills years ago and I still love things like that to this day. (Of course if you should also acquire proper protective equipment, because these things hurt with full/accidental contact obviously)

As a side note, great choice of lightsaber. The Initiate V2 is one of the first ones I considered. I love the look, and think it has merit. In the end I opted for something MHS compatible since I wanted a saberstaff, but I still want one at some point. Something about it's simplicity of form makes it scream "great combat saber" to me, and like a "classic lightsaber" style you'd see a fundamental Jedi wielding in our world/view of a monastic order. Nothing too flashy, pure practicality, an elegant tool with a purpose. But I'd be buying that Dark Initiate v2 or sure, personal preference. Good luck with your endeavor, and may the Force serve you well.

[SirLiftaLot]

Interesting discussion. With a real lightsaber, contact would be devastating regardless of the force behind the strike, unlike most/all of our weapons, so lightsaber fights we have would be more akin to "point sparring." But I think Darth Prodigal pointed out to me that stronger blows from a heavier weapon could still have utility when your weapon/blade comes in contact with your opponents? Sure, if you land a blow, it doesn't have to be hard at all to do major damage, but if your blow is blocked by your opponent, it being strong and having momentum and mass behind it could make it harder for them to stop it. Or it may tire them out, or stagger them, opening them up for a follow up attack. So there is some utility to be had in some circumstances with a heavier and more forceful weapon in the context of "real" lightsaber fights, even if you do have to trade some speed and mobility for it. But then I suppose you'd have to adopt a fighting style that capitalizes on this advantage and tries to downplay its weaknesses, otherwise you just end up with a slower weapon that isn't doing you any favors. And this style probably wouldn't be too well received in friendly sparring matches, as it would rely on very forceful strikes intended to overpower the opponent, which is pretty at odds with the general goal of "point sparring" I'd say. So maybe it's just hypotheticals I'm talking about, and not terribly relevant to practical applications.

I suppose perhaps if point of balance is farther towards the tip of the blade than you'd want it, you could always opt for a heavier or longer pommel to try to counterbalance it and bring the point of balance further back? Although this would come at the cost of making the overall weapon at least slightly heavier. But even something like keeping the batteries as close to the back of the hilt as possible could help to bring the point of balance back a bit if it's too far forward for your taste.

[TheCharlax]

I agree, something like a longer pommel would be an option.  Since we are not even sure of the POB however, I feel it best to start with the most basic.  Also, it's cheaper, lol.  More importantly though, the simplistic design will allow me to feed my creative side whilst making modifications.

True, and insightful. I was going to mention that, I concur your idea would indeed produce a more realistic feel, true to the SWU weapon.

Also yes, lightsaber combat for points is fundamentally similar to fencing or kendo in structure and point tallying toward a win. Speed and accuracy play huge roles of course so I'll be interested (as many probably would be) to see your finished modifications once you acquire your lightsaber.
The only real variation on the pure point system (I know of) would likely be if you free spar with someone or play some other sort of training game prioritizing points of contact each round or similarly negating certain ones. I find such exercises to be great at refining technique and control in different ways, especially when now your "opponent" knows before hand what target(s) you're going for... my sensei had us participate in such drills years ago and I still love things like that to this day. (Of course if you should also acquire proper protective equipment, because these things hurt with full/accidental contact obviously)

As a side note, great choice of lightsaber. The Initiate V2 is one of the first ones I considered. I love the look, and think it has merit. In the end I opted for something MHS compatible since I wanted a saberstaff, but I still want one at some point. Something about it's simplicity of form makes it scream "great combat saber" to me, and like a "classic lightsaber" style you'd see a fundamental Jedi wielding in our world/view of a monastic order. Nothing too flashy, pure practicality, an elegant tool with a purpose. But I'd be buying that Dark Initiate v2 or sure, personal preference. Good luck with your endeavor, and may the Force serve you well.

Thanks.  I enjoy training games too; sometimes more so than actual dueling, lol

[DarthProdigal]

I agree, something like a longer pommel would be an option.  Since we are not even sure of the POB however, I feel it best to start with the most basic.  Also, it's cheaper, lol.  More importantly though, the simplistic design will allow me to feed my creative side whilst making modifications.

Thanks.  I enjoy training games too; sometimes more so than actual dueling, lol

Yes, that creative spark can lead to very intriguing developments. There is a wealth of user submitted awesomeness here to explore, having provided me with many great potential projects to undertake. But along the lines you mentioned there are options for creating hilt extensions from the pommel or adding weight to counterbalance the blade.

May I also suggest Cang Snow as someone I respect, and find has very interesting videos on some different but fun training techniques/games his group employs on occasion. I cite him as a reference because he is rather helpful in general, and has some great videos.

Interesting discussion. With a real lightsaber, contact would be devastating regardless of the force behind the strike, unlike most/all of our weapons, so lightsaber fights we have would be more akin to "point sparring." But I think Darth Prodigal pointed out to me that stronger blows from a heavier weapon could still have utility when your weapon/blade comes in contact with your opponents? Sure, if you land a blow, it doesn't have to be hard at all to do major damage, but if your blow is blocked by your opponent, it being strong and having momentum and mass behind it could make it harder for them to stop it. Or it may tire them out, or stagger them, opening them up for a follow up attack. So there is some utility to be had in some circumstances with a heavier and more forceful weapon in the context of "real" lightsaber fights, even if you do have to trade some speed and mobility for it. But then I suppose you'd have to adopt a fighting style that capitalizes on this advantage and tries to downplay its weaknesses, otherwise you just end up with a slower weapon that isn't doing you any favors. And this style probably wouldn't be too well received in friendly sparring matches, as it would rely on very forceful strikes intended to overpower the opponent, which is pretty at odds with the general goal of "point sparring" I'd say. So maybe it's just hypotheticals I'm talking about, and not terribly relevant to practical applications.

I suppose perhaps if point of balance is farther towards the tip of the blade than you'd want it, you could always opt for a heavier or longer pommel to try to counterbalance it and bring the point of balance further back? Although this would come at the cost of making the overall weapon at least slightly heavier. But even something like keeping the batteries as close to the back of the hilt as possible could help to bring the point of balance back a bit if it's too far forward for your taste.

Ha, thanks for remembering and referencing our discussion. Yes, such a "heavy handed" fighting style or intermittent use of such tactics is a bit seemingly out of place at first glance. It does have precedent though in Form V: Dijem So, and I respect Darth Bane's chosen fighting style in this regard. It has limited usefulness of course in my opinion unless you are titianically larger or more powerful than your opponent, and more likely is useful in limited movements like parrying, deflecting, or even knocking the blade from an opponent's grasp. The latter of which obviously being unsportsman like and frowned upon, and the prior techniques hard to execute against someone with a high degree of mastery of the use of their lightsaber. Heck such actions could even compromise blade/hilt integrity for both parties if done improperly or with too much vigor repeatedly. I could not say for sure in the end. Although, if used in the proper instant, I could see it giving an advantage or momentary opening to strike. As you said, much less friendly in tactic and purely seeking the win or even teaching someone how they leave themselves open to such things without being ready/trained to counter them. I'd within prior sparring/training sessions adjusted the force of my blows, movements, and clashed accordingly/incrementally to then unexpectedly unleash a monster blow or parry. This was partly my attempts to use Form V in combat without overwhelming size and musculature. Adrenaline can surely make up for this in several instances.

Obviously these are simply my own experience and musings, not overall codes of conduct. To be taken or left at will by recipients, and viewed as such... simply my own opinion. I've dueled true masters who could easily counter, see through, or adapt to such techniques. At best you could scratch one once with such a thing, in more likely hood you'd leave yourself wide open to retaliation or end up injured instead. Mostly just food for thought or consideration for limited technical application. There tend to be no universally "right way" across the board styles/catch all techniques in my experience. You'll tend to find someone eventually who surprises you or defies expectations. And those are my favorite opponents or training partners because they have much you can usually learn from. Hench why I love MA. You can't really learn EVERYTHING, and even if you somehow did... in the years and years that would take the styles would evolve. So beautiful.

[TheCharlax]

Yes, that creative spark can lead to very intriguing developments. There is a wealth of user submitted awesomeness here to explore, having provided me with many great potential projects to undertake. But along the lines you mentioned there are options for creating hilt extensions from the pommel or adding weight to counterbalance the blade.

May I also suggest Cang Snow as someone I respect, and find has very interesting videos on some different but fun training techniques/games his group employs on occasion. I cite him as a reference because he is rather helpful in general, and has some great videos.

Thanks for the suggestion.