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Author Topic: Double review: Flamberge and Guardian  (Read 5485 times)
James Casey
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« on: April 28, 2016, 08:44:15 PM »

Growing up, I was enchanted by stories of medieval knights – King Arthur and Camelot, Ivanhoe, Robin Hood, even the later stories of Henry V and other examples of duelling and close-range warfare. Romanticised, yes, but when you’re seven years old and all you see is the vividly technicoloured images of handsome, virtuous knights facing down evil, rescuing maidens and seeing off the Sherriff of Nottingham, well, it leaves a mark.

Knights, historically, would have used a variety of weapons. Maces and hammers, of course, and axes too. A halberd was an effective weapon against armoured foes, providing the leverage and focused point to puncture armour and the flesh beneath. Still, as every schoolboy knows, the real weapon of a knight is their sword – be it Excalibur, Albion or just some unnamed-but-lethal length of steel.


This could be a hammer. I like this idea.

Lightsabres come from that line, too – albeit that George Lucas’ vision drew more obviously on Japanese legends and stories. Still, a knight with a shining sword: This is King Arthur territory, and this is where I grew up.

(I actually bought a plastic toy sword when I was about 10 or 11 that lasted me for almost 25 years until my niece and nephew got hold of it last year, their vigorous duelling proving the final nail in its coffin. I mourn its loss even now.)

But enough reminiscing: My £3 sword is gone, and its replacement as my knightly weapon cost rather more – even allowing for inflation.


My entry into the first spring raffle was the Flamberge v2. I hemmed and hawed over this one, as black hilts aren’t generally my thing, but I do really like the Omen-esque inlay on this hilt. I contacted Ultrasabers and asked if there were any plans for a light side version, but it wasn’t to be (there should be – black highlights on a silver hilt would look awesome).

In the end, after spending weeks and months looking at all the versions of the Flamberge and Renegade, I opted for the Flamberge v2. The ornamentation won me over, and I liked the simple emitters more than I liked the ‘moray teeth’ emitters of the Renegade.

I knew that I was buying a big hilt. There should be no surprises in that – the Flamberge sports 3 blades, and even if it (and the Renegade) draw on Kylo Ren’s lightsabre for inspiration, for me it’s the two-handed (zweihander) swords brought into use in the 16th Century that really come to mind when looking at this monster.

And monster is an accurate term. With a hilt measuring some 14 inches in length, this is a long lightsabre – compare to the Manticore, Sentinel or Prophecy, for example. Throw on a 36” blade, and it’s almost 4 foot from blade tip to pommel – longer if you opt for the offered 40 inch blade.


Full disclosure: This is a 32 inch blade, which I only realised after I took the photo. That’s long enough!

And then there’s the crossguard – 5 inches wide on its own, but then there are the blades that come with it. I opted for the shorter 6 inches blades, making it around 16 inches wide. 16 inches! It’s like strapping a Scorpion on top of another Scorpion!


Stay behind me, I'll protect you!

The Flamberge is so big that it swallows up a significant percentage of the blade – around 4 inches, including that contained within the emitter itself.


Zweihanders have a ceremonial use in the UK. Whenever local dignitaries (mayors, for example) get dressed up in their finest regalia, there’ll invariably be a zweihander (or an ornamental mace) as part of the outfit. They’re never used for anything – I like to imagine a mayor struggling to swing one when cutting the ribbon at a new hospital, or something – but they’re ceremonial, and ceremony is important. Still, anyone trying to brandish one of them is probably going to cause a ceremonial bloodbath.

The always-reliable Wikipedia tells me that the length of zweihanders was a result of centuries of gradual lengthening of swords – they seem to have represented the peak of the movement (which I can only imagine began with a ‘My sword is longer than your sword’ jibe, possibly accompanied by some nudging, winking and repeating ‘Eh? Eh?’ing) before blade lengths began to contract – and swords began to fall out of fashion, of course. Shorter blades are simply more manoeuvrable. Police officers carry nightsticks rather than baseball bats for exactly that reason.


Top to bottom: Big and heavy, pretty typical, short and whippy, an honest-to-goodness TARDIS and a Flamberge

The size of the Flamberge makes it almost impossible for me to give a reasoned impression of how well it handles. In my previous reviews I’ve talked about how, generally, I prefer shorter, sleeker lightsabres.


Exac- Well, maybe not this short...

I’m a dual-wielder by preference, and two-handing a ‘sabre feels... well, like I’m only using half the options open to me. Further limiting myself with this beast of a hilt (which, lest we forget, is 16 inches wide!) goes contrary to all my preferred moves, and the crossguards are all too easy to snag on yourself when performing a more sweeping move.

I have two options, then – adapt my fighting style, or adapt the Flamberge.

Adapting my fighting style would probably require rather more refinement than I’ve ever put into my current ‘style’, which in truth is pretty much just flailing at whichever one of my opponents has come within arm’s reach! Keeping the Flamberge as is would probably give me an advantage in reach, and the crossguards would provide added protection – if I could manage them.

Adapting the Flamberge, then, is the way forward. That’s easily done; All 3 emitters, plus the pommel, are MHS compatible. The emitters aren’t all that big, but can be replaced if you fancy something different.


This would work so much better in all black or all silver...

Having a full-sized MHS emitter on the crossguards is actually quite a bit shorter than having even a 6 inch blade on it.


But losing the blades immediately makes this more of a manageable hilt. Swapping them for blade plugs is a temporary solution – the light’s not diffused within the plugs, and they’re too long to drop any further into the hilt. In time, I’ll pick up a couple of grab bag blades and have a couple of stubby 1-2 inch projections.


Although not an exact match, by any means, I like the look of this shortened crossguard a lot – it reminds me a little of the Great Swords wielded by Cyclonus and the Knights of the Silver Circle in IDW’s Transformers comics.


Cyclonus stabs Megatron, and the fandom rejoiced! CyclonusxTailgate4evah!

You can’t remove the ‘hammerhead’ section of emitter from the main body of the hilt – not without potentially damaging the wires to the crossguard LEDs. It has been done, but I’m not volunteering to show you how!


Follow me down the rabbit hole and see where it might take us...

I bought the Flamberge knowing that it would be a tricky hilt to deal with. I found myself surprised, even so, at just how big it was in hand – a measure, as much as anything, of how bad I am at estimating measurements Wink Still, it’ll take some ongoing work on my part to get it into a usable sword that makes proper use of the crossguard LEDs. It’s too nice in appearance not to use them, but having full-sized blades in there makes it too unwieldy for me to use.

Clearly I was never meant to be a knight in shining armour...


Which is a bit of a blow.

*

...but what about a Guardian?

In Star Wars lore, Jedi knights fell into one of three roles – Consulars, who were the diplomats, teachers and healers of the Order, Guardians, who were the peacekeepers and combat specialists, and Sentinels, who sought a balance between the other paths. I’ve tended towards the Sentinel path, but the Guardian is such a nice hilt, it could make me re-think matters.


I’ve spoken before about the Guardian, as I first bought my nickel plated version 2 years ago (where does the time go?). It’s a big, two-handed (there’s that phrase again) hilt – probably the heaviest of any in my collection because I (all join in) prefer sleeker, shorter hilts.

But I like the Guardian, nonetheless. It dates from The Phantom Menace, of course, the first Star Wars film that I (and a lot of fans) saw for the first time on the big screen. A fifteen year wait between Star Wars films? Nowadays, that’s inconceivable.


Although it is, objectively speaking, not a great film, Phantom Menace does have the wonderful lightsabre battle between Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon and Darth Maul at its climax, as for the first time we got to see fit, healthy, trained lightsabre duellists going at it full tilt.

While I preferred the Qui-Gon’s hilt (the Consular) at first, Obi-Wan’s hilt grew on me over time. Even for a Star Wars fan, I developed a really deep interest in the hilts wielded by various characters, and I kept coming back to Obi-Wan’s – possibly because the Episode III/IV hilt design has never really appealed to me. It also reminded me of my friend Matt, who I introduced to Star Wars in the summer of 1999, and who re-paid me by buying me my first lightsabre – one of the collapsible plastic Qui-Gon hilts while he got himself the Obi-Wan hilt.

Way back when I bought my Guardian, I went for the nickel finish on it. I didn’t have a particular reason for doing so; I think I may have just wanted something a bit different. I’m fairly ambivalent on the finish, in general. I like it on the Guardian and Menace, but less so on the other hilts in the US lineup. As the Menace wasn’t available when I bought my Guardian, possibly I thought it was then or never.


Nickeled to the tips of the pommel spikes

As I’ve discussed before, I am a completist. I have two Sentinels, two Catalysts, three Aeon v2s, three Prophecies, two Menaces... and now two Guardians, one in each finish. I like that, I like that my new Guardian matches my Consular and Menaces now...


Spot the odd one out

...and I like that having a pair of Guardians actually means that I can balance them when dual-wielding them.


Which, apparently, is what happens when you take equally heavy lightsabres and put one in each hand – they cancel out the heaviness of each other, leaving you free to dual-wield like some crazed highland warrior, charging the English with a claymore in each hand.

Apparently in order to get comfortable with my Flamberge, I need to buy another one to hold in my off hand. This could get expensive; Good job I’m not a completist or anything...

But enough of that. I know I’m in the minority as a dual wielder. When most people see identical hilts, they want to know what it’s like as a staff. I blame Darth Maul, obviously,

The answer, though, is that it works well.


Like, really well.


Really, really well.


The balance is good, and because of the shroud around the Guardian, the coupler makes for an interesting balance point for spinning. I don’t spin staffs, as a rule – the potential for destroying stuff is far too great, and my wife’s tolerance for lightsabres only extends so far. Still, I can see that the various raises and dips in its profile would make for excellent grip when spinning. Whether that’s what a spinner is looking for will probably be down to personal preference.

*

My Flamberge is awesome, and I look forward to getting used to wielding it. My nephew’s birthday party is coming up, and I usually take along plenty of ‘sabres to spar with, so that should be fun. My Guardian is great, and while I knew that already, I do like how I’ve found a way to use them one-handed now I have two of them.

Now I suppose ought to go and see if I can balance a Flamberge in one hand with a Guardian staff in the other. Ought to be interesting...
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Mivew128
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« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2016, 09:22:50 PM »

Damn! What a thorough review! I will legitimately come on tomorrow to give you another point for the blade plugs on the Flamberge--I had wondered about that for quite some time.
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Stunt Sentinel LE (Arctic Blue)


 

Want:
Obsidian Electrum Wind (Violet Amethyst, Black Pommel)
Obsidian Flamberge LE (Blazing Red)

Lord Japarco
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« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2016, 09:28:15 PM »

Congrats for your sabers, and also for this great review. I also love knight's stories...I bought a medieval sword in Toledo, blade made with Toledian steel...I love it, but you can't really wield it with only one hand...anyway, have a point.
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My Lightsabers:
Sentinel V4 - Tri Consular Green - Obsidian V4
The Guardian - Guardian Blue - Silver Flash on Clash - Obsidian V3 (2nd Summer Raffle 2016 2nd Place Prize)
Wife's Lightsaber: Prophecy V3 - Arctic Blue - Obsidian V3

Darth Justicar
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« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2016, 09:34:13 PM »

I enjoyed the humor and the funny captions in your pictures. Smiley

It's funny how everyone's preferences differ...my guess if you're a guy over my height (5'6" in my cosplay), people would expect me to be the dual wielder with the more nimble blades and you to be the one with the huge Zweihander.  Yet it's the reverse...and yes, as you showed with the dimensions, my Flamberge stands a little over 2/3 of my height!

I think it's good that you did a full breakdown of the dimensions.  Having all of these calculations in one place would have been a heck of a timesaver before I ordered.  I calculated everything to a T with a tape measure before ordering so I knew exactly what I was getting into, and I nailed it precisely.  It would've been such a quick process with this!

Have you considered, as a happy medium between removing the crossguard entirely, and leaving it as is, cutting the blades down?  For example, because of my smaller build, I had mine custom cut to give me 4" crossguard blades, which took my crossguard length from end to end down to a little short of a foot.

Granted, if your fighting style is still not adapted for a two-handed saber, that might still be annoying, but I find my saber livable with the 4" blades for the style I have, which is very direct and not based on a lot of fancy maneuvers.
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       --Gul Verden in Debtors' Planet by W.R. Thompson

"I'm a little Renlet, short and 'stout'
Here is my saber, watch me scream and shout!"
       --Lyrics by Jev Moldara

Flamberge BR with v4 Obsidian and 4-inch side blades

Master Medwyn
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« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2016, 10:33:47 PM »

Great review and the silver is really appealing!
If that zweihander doesn't draw you to get into the rabbit hole of two handed wielding, nothing will Smiley
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Drahcir
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« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2016, 11:59:36 PM »

Another great review from you James, I find them more entertaining than anything.
I know these hilts pretty well, but I found myself spending the last several minutes reading this and laughing anyway.

Great job, have a point from me.
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Blackstar1331
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« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2016, 12:49:16 AM »

Great review James! I like how you have the sabers lined up. It really shows the scale. Cheesy
The Flamberge is even bigger than I thought though. Do you think I would be okay wielding it at 5' 9'? Shocked
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CyberKyber
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« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2016, 01:03:34 AM »

Awesome review! I really liked how you mentioned your passion for knight swords and how they still are used ceremonially. I can confirm this, a few of the "guardians" at my Master's graduation in the UK also carried similar swords; gave the ceremony a snobby but awesome touch XD
I've always loved the plain black flamberge, the v1, the simplest out of the lot, but just so elegant. It'll probably be one of my later purchases XD
+1 for you!
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Counterfeit/Violent Darth Vader lightsaber (ROTJ look)- reaper emitter, warglaive body, T-grips, Heiland/MPP activation clamp -
Emerald driver + Obsidian V4 - Crimson red
Menace SE staff - BR
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« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2016, 05:48:06 AM »

Cut the side blades shorter, put a standard pommel on it and the flamberge becomes a hundred times easier to use.
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Prowl 1701
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« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2016, 06:03:13 AM »

Greatest saber review ever.  Excellent review, James.  It is highly detailed, very informative, extremely amusing,  andthe pics are awesome.  They show a great sense of scale among the hilts.  I normally don't like long posts, but you reviews are so well written, I always enjoy reading them.  All the LS points to you, sir!  Cheesy

I think you made an excellent choice with the Flaberge V2, it is my favorite Flamberge model too, I love how the Omen body looks on it.
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James Casey
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« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2016, 12:05:59 PM »

Glad everyone enjoyed the review. I've done so many now, I think a bit of silliness here and there works well. The shot of the Flamberge 'shielding' the other hilts is probably my favourite photo I've taken to show on here Smiley

I'll definitely be looking at different options for the crossguard on the Flamberge, and I'm not ruling out settling down with a shorter set of blades on it. I think, as much as anything, it's the length of the hilt that really throws me... it's very big both in terms of breadth and height. Even at 6' tall, it's tough for me to cope with, but worth persevering with.

Blackstar, I'm confident that you'd be okay with a Flamberge. Darth Justicar is (comparatively!) small and she loves hers - it just goes to what you want out of a 'sabre. I love the idea of a crossguard, but I'm struggling with it. It may just be a mental block on my part about the side blades being, well, blades that I wouldn't want coming into contact with me*, whereas on a real sword of course they're metal and designed to shield rather than hurt.

*Possibly my favourite single moment of TFA is when the side blade is used to impale Finn through the shoulder. Brutal, and awesome.
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"I'll split this world open and tear down the sky before I let him come to even the slightest harm."

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« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2016, 01:00:01 PM »

Regarding the height of the Flamberge, in my video review I stand it up and let you see what it actually looks like in comparison to me.  If you hunt through the review section, you should find the thread, and then if you look at the description on the video on YouTube, you'll see which section of the video covers the dimensions and proportions.  I also show the effects of my height and the size of the saber on handling.  For me, a lot of spinning wouldn't happen with that hilt, but that's okay because I'm a lot more interested in learning a bit of longsword fighting technique than I am in stuff like spinning.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2016, 01:03:03 PM by Darth Justicar » Logged

"Anger is a tool.  Use it; do not let it use you."
       --Gul Verden in Debtors' Planet by W.R. Thompson

"I'm a little Renlet, short and 'stout'
Here is my saber, watch me scream and shout!"
       --Lyrics by Jev Moldara

Flamberge BR with v4 Obsidian and 4-inch side blades

hazard502
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« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2016, 07:25:26 PM »



This is my favourite look on the Flamberge, long sword - it looks really aggressive like this . . . i'll eventually end up here and also have my side blades cut down to 3-4 inches.  Point for the wonderful review!
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« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2016, 08:32:42 PM »

What an interesting light hearted review. Lol I chuckled during "story time" . Too much compliment on so just plain Loved it !  As well just the look of a flamberge using a manticorr & a menace emitter on the cross guard makes a beast of it. Reminding me of Conan's Atlantian. +1 to you sir for an excellent read.
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« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2016, 09:41:26 PM »

What did you put on the switch to do the red button on your manticore??
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My Lightsabers:
Sentinel V4 - Tri Consular Green - Obsidian V4
The Guardian - Guardian Blue - Silver Flash on Clash - Obsidian V3 (2nd Summer Raffle 2016 2nd Place Prize)
Wife's Lightsaber: Prophecy V3 - Arctic Blue - Obsidian V3

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