STAR TREK BEYOND - NON-SPOILER REVIEW

[Darth Knox]

Ouch...hard choice.  In the end I'd have to take First Contact on sentimental value (I saw it in the theater but not Undiscovered Country), better effects, and having one of the best scores in the franchise.  That and Picard getting kicked hard in the hypocrisy.  It actually makes a cool companion piece to DS9 in that way as well as being a TNG movie, given that DS9 was in the process of deconstructing a lot of the excessive parading on a high horse that TNG and Picard specifically did a lot of.

(Oh and of course it actually gave us a good reason to have Worf aboard and acknowledged the Defiant, so it strengthens the sense of it being a companion piece to DS9.)

The Undiscovered Country is really awesome too, though, and when I do my top movie lists, I usually rank them together at #1.

from some of your comments it seems like you're not a fan of Picard.
The Undiscovered Country is brilliant too.

[Darth Justicar]

I'm really not.  He has some interesting moments--especially when something happens to humble him (which is what Best of Both Worlds/Family, The Inner Light, and Chain of Command all do in various ways).  But I would never be able to respect him as my commanding officer the way I could Sisko, if I were in that universe.  Sisko does have a few moments of bad, but I overall consider his command judgment to be much more sound.

Kirk also demonstrates fairly solid command judgment in TOS, and in Star Trek Beyond, but I couldn't respect him fully as a CO because of his treatment of women.  Still, he comes in as #2 behind Sisko for me.

[Darth Knox]

But I would never be able to respect him as my commanding officer the way I could Sisko, if I were in that universe. 

but why? not a fan of earl grey tea?

[Darth Justicar]

but why? not a fan of earl grey tea?

I feel like Sisko can make the hard decisions that are needed to deal with one's enemies.  Getting Picard to acknowledge a threat (look how many times he shot down Worf when Worf turned out to be right) in the first place is a problem, as is Picard's willingness to throw his people under the bus over rules and high-and-mighty politics.  I think he was gunning for the admiralty or something.

[Darth Knox]

I feel like Sisko can make the hard decisions that are needed to deal with one's enemies.  Getting Picard to acknowledge a threat (look how many times he shot down Worf when Worf turned out to be right) in the first place is a problem, as is Picard's willingness to throw his people under the bus over rules and high-and-mighty politics.  I think he was gunning for the admiralty or something.

fair enough. I disagree, but fully accept your opinion.

[Darth Justicar]

They even made it an "evil universe" thing for Picard to even SAY the word "enemy."  (Look at "Yesterday's Enterprise.")

Without spoilers, there's a similar issue in Beyond, but I felt like they were a little more dignified in how they handled it than in TNG, because of something Kirk said that softened it a little.  I can't get into what without dropping a GIANT STB spoiler though.

[Rapine]

I found Picard to be sound of mind.  "THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!"

Commander Riker never earned my full respect thought.  Way too fickle.

Data was my man. And Gordi.  What a pair.

Edit: Post amended.    I like that one.

[Darth Knox]

I found Picard to be sound of mind.  "THERE ARE THREE LIGHTS!"

Commander Riker never earned my full respect thought.  Way too fickle.

Data was my man. And Gordi.  What a pair.

it's actually four lights and the cardassian was trying to get him to see five (just watched that episode over the weekend).

Riker as TNG's answer to Kirk, getting his naughty on with as many alien females as he can.

Data and Geordi were a great double act

[scifidude79]

I just saw the film and I liked it.  Granted, one doesn't need to dwell too much on the plot, but it was good.  Of course, there was more action than science, but we've come to expect that from these films.  The characters got more fleshed out in this one and, for the first time, we see a more mature James T. Kirk.  Chris Pine's part was more like William Shatner's in the good old days.  We also get to see more Spock and McCoy interactions and many of the "supporting" characters have more to do than in previous installations.  Of course, the action was good but, with Justin Lin at the helm, fans of his Fast & Furious films expected that.

Minor nitpicking without spoilers: we see even more evidence that the Kelvin timeline was never part of the Prime Universe, or at least not as established by Enterprise.  Make of that what you will.  (it doesn't bother me because I've always considered this a completely separate universe, it was just worth noting)

Most importantly, it's vastly better than Into Darkness, in my opinion.  Though, that's an incredibly low bar, so no big surprise.

Final note:  I really like the U.S.S. Franklin, it's a cool ship.  I'd live to see (and study) the full model in all its glory.

it's actually four lights and the cardassian was trying to get him to see five (just watched that episode over the weekend).

Riker as TNG's answer to Kirk, getting his naughty on with as many alien females as he can.

Data and Geordi were a great double act

A guy I used to work with was of the impression that they split Kirk into two people, and you got Picard and Riker.  Picard represents Kirk's mature, commanding side.  He's the duty bound one who will do anything for his crew and he shares Kirk's love of Shakespeare.  Riker represents the ladies' man side of Kirk, the one who can let loose and have a good time, as well as laugh in the face of danger and use unorthodox tactics to get out of a jam.  Of course, that's a simplification, as Picard can certainly use unorthodox maneuvers and many of the traits Picard has regarding command and duty can also be applied to Riker.  But, that may have been how they started fleshing out the characters.

[LivingBrain]

Granted, one doesn't need to dwell too much on the plot, but it was good.

I'm actually really interested to hear you elaborate on this. Did you think the plot was good? Or do you think plot is secondary to other things? I'm weirdly fascinated by this statement and would love to hear more lol.

Most importantly, it's vastly better than Into Darkness, in my opinion.  Though, that's an incredibly low bar, so no big surprise.

Definitely with you on that one. INTO DARKNESS drives me crazy. -_-

[scifidude79]

It's a simple plot is all.  It's your basic bad guys doing bad things and threatening entire worlds bit that we've seen a lot.  There are a couple minor twists, but nothing Earth shattering.  At least it's not a rehash of another film, like Into Darkness was.  New enemies and whatnot.

[Jev Moldara]

Final note:  I really like the U.S.S. Franklin, it's a cool ship.  I'd live to see (and study) the full model in all its glory.

Just watch Enterprise...

[LivingBrain]

It's a simple plot is all.  It's your basic bad guys doing bad things and threatening entire worlds bit that we've seen a lot.  There are a couple minor twists, but nothing Earth shattering.  At least it's not a rehash of another film, like Into Darkness was.  New enemies and whatnot.

I totally get what you mean. Personally, I'm okay with simple plots done well, but I also have a craving for "Earth-shattering" new things and always love it when they happen. EX MACHINA was one movie that really subverted my expectations in a way that made sense within the story and I loved it for that.

And goodness, the whole "Kirk dies instead of Spock" twist is one of the least artistic things I've ever seen, especially since it didn't have the long, deep friendship between Kirk and Spock over multiple movies and TV episodes to give it a strong emotional context. I really wish INTO DARKNESS had Cumberbatch playing Gary Mitchell (as I believe was rumored before the film's release) instead of Khan and it was a more straightforward "stop the bad guy" story with some themes about power and whatnot.

[scifidude79]

Just watch Enterprise...

It's a different design.  If anything, it looks like a cross between the ships from Enterprise and the Kelvin (and its kitbashes) from Star Trek (2009.)

[Darth Justicar]

I took Kirk's death as less about the friendship and more about the obvious breakdown he'd been experiencing for the whole movie.  He bottomed out in a very literal manner.  I also believe that the psychological breakdown was worsened by the mind meld in the first movie, which would have given him echoes of his alternate self, and the dissonance hit a crisis point during STID.  Knowing him, he failed to report the adverse reaction to the mind meld (which IMO was fairly blatant in ST 2009) and let it fester.

I am not saying STID was without some very notable flaws but the way I see the Kirk character does help a bit o explain his arc in that movie.

I read somewhere (I forget where) that Chekov will NOT be recast for future movies.  If they kill his character...just imagine how that will be especially since we know that a couple of people are aware he survived longer in the Prime universe.  I believe Kirk is the second who knows, based on the theory above--I will not spoil who the other person is or how they know.