Andor: Series Thoughts

[Lord_S_Gray]

So what do people think of 'Andor' I'm up to episode 3 atm and find it quite good, very 'grounded' focus on people with day jobs and daily grind concerns, much like Obi-Wan touched on at the start. Characters and their actions/Motivations seem quite realistic in terms of their goals and resources, back story flashes building in line with the main story are intriguing, showing the 'scavengers' amongst a galactic war and 'forgotten children'. 

I think it benefits, much like the Mandalorian Season 1 before it,  in focusing on a character with very little existing lore so they are not as constrained and able to make a more expansive tale than say the restrictions with Obi-Wan.

I especially like the over jumped Lieutenant of the corporate security with his righteous indignation at the opening crime, ignoring the seasoned 'cover it up' advice of his superior and going all in when he gets the chance. The 'police procedural' scene tracking Andor specifically were a nice change from Obi-wan where they simply seemed to know exactly where to go and who to find instantly at times.

It shows things taking time and effort - to make contact with people, to arrange deals and travel - and the rivalries and friendships that intersect with that.

And Andor as well, already a wheeler and dealer he gets himself in too deep this time and has to scramble to get out.

Just feels more 'real' for the setting so far to me.

[TheDutchman]

As I've said before, Mrs. Dutchman is NOT a fan of Star Wars (at least not like I am  ).

That said, she absolutely loves "Andor."  LSG brought up the fact that the show deals with "real people" living in the era of an established Empire yet one young enough that many remember the Republic.  It's this setting that my wife finds so intriguing, Andor himself a kind of audience surrogate.

Plus, she really like Diego Luna 

And I agree with her: as of Episode 7, this is an enjoyable story, one that, thus far, has an adequate-if-not-outstanding multiple-arc narrative.  Oh, and before I go on:

<<<SPOILERS!!!>>>

OK, I also like how the show delves into the multiple characters and their motivations; there is a multi-layered plot populated by three-dimensional people.  Andor himself epitomizes this: his reaction to Skeen's greed&lies and his unhesitating decision isn't that of the stereotypical hero, yet that is what he is, reluctant or no.  He adheres to a code, one that often times may seem self-serving, but we as the audience can recognize his reasons for doing so.

This also extends to the scenes centering on the ISB.  Far from a unified division, the disparate personalities could be from Anywhere, Anycountry, Earth.  I guess that some things ARE universal, even in a "galaxy far, far away."

Looking forward to not only seeing where the series leads us but also other Forum members' thoughts^^

[Darth Tepes]

I tried...but I just could not get interested.  Unlike everyone else it seems, I have no interest in the "Real People".   

[Taegin Roan]

There will be a lot of people who don't like this show because it isn't about Jedi, Sith, or the Force in some way, and that's fine. I understand completely. But I love the thriller genre, and I loved the character of Cassian Andor in R1, so I was already stoked for this show long before the first trailers arrived. But I've gotta say, it's even better than I hoped. It's just been so good so far, and all the issues presented in things like Kenobi or Boba Fett just don't exist in this show. And I'm really happy to have it. I still need to get caught up though. I'm 1 or 2 eps. behind still.

[Lord_S_Gray]

Agree.

I think a comparison with Kenobi is warranted – I.e. compare the ‘heist’ in Andor to Kenobi infiltrating the Inquisition Fortress.

Andor – Small, sleepy outpost on a backwater world, cosmic event for cover added to this, several weeks of preparation, disguises, cover needed, internal help needed to get in – things still go wrong, they get some but not all they wanted, members of the team are killed, Imperials are responsive and quick to act when the breach is even suspected.

Kenobi – highly staffed Imperial Fortress arguably one of the most secure in the galaxy, full of Force sensitive Jedi hunters - Kenobi swims in, no disguise (apart from a rain coat over himself and Leia at one point), still gets what he was after, no injuries, escapes easily even after being found out and surrounded by storm troopers, with minimal help and seemingly minimal planning before hand.

Also looking at the characters, they all feel more realistic, e.g. Andor himself a small time wheeler and dealer on backwater world, looking for his sister initially, accidently kills two corporate guards, spends several episodes trying to get away for his own safety, all his actions and decisions (even bad ones) are to that end, uses his one valuable item to try and buy passage offworld.

These people make bad choices but only in keeping with their characters nature, jealousies and ambitions – so far no outright stupid decisions - they take risks, use their resources best they can, some win, and some lose very badly – but they all are working to their goals.

It’s certainly less action adventure and more drama, but all the better for it in my opinion, by far the deepest most grounded Star Wars canon media since Disney bought it.

I hope it keeps moving as it has been. As Taegin says its not everyone’s preference for Star Wars, but that’s fine, neither was Kenobi or Book of Boba Fett, I like they are trying something more serious and deep without resorting to calling back to popular characters or climatic battles.

[TheDutchman]

I also agree.

"Andor" is an example of how to do a character-driven story right.  Smart writing, realistic concerns and actions, and solid acting; the series is a compelling expansion on the story that we know (the Empire and the rise of the Rebel Alliance) while giving us fresh and new material. 

Part of the problem with the "Obi-Wan" series was its (over)use of contrivances and poor writing.  I, for one, actually do love fanservice...but it has to arise naturally within the story.  You don't have to sacrifice plotting just to have some fanservice twist, but the narrative should make sense, especially in context of the story.  Sure, some characters are going to have Plot Armor and that's not necessarily a bad thing.  Where I take umbrage is when either it's done so with a TON of contrivances OR bad writing (and stupid decisions).

As mentioned, "Andor" isn't everyone's cup of tea and there's nothing wrong with that (I have to admit that I really like tales with the Force in stories  ).  But I think that what makes "Andor" GOOD is the flow of the story, characters that aren't two-dimensional (even "bad guys" are given believable motives), and plotting that isn't just some slap-dash arrangement that strings lightsaber battles together to the next one.  And, again, this is coming from someone who LOVES lightsaber battles 

I'm very interested in others' thoughts--good or bad--for Andor (great thread LSG)^^

[Lord_S_Gray]

Having now finished the series, I agree with Dutch this is a very different kind of series to the action adventure standard (though it still has elements of it), and much more character driven, some real depth given to the larger cast, Luthen especially had some incredible scene's where the price of his rebellion, and the impossible decisions with others lives he must make, upon his conscience is laid bare.

As Dutch notes every major character is multifaceted with credible motivations, talents and faults.

There were a few instances of possible 'teleporting' toward the end and some very convenient coincidences (notably post 'liberation'), but nothing that totally broke the suspension of disbelief entirely as was the case for me in Obi-Wan with t Reva, stabbed by a lightsabre, left for dead suddenly appearing on Tatooine.   

Overall I think this is by far the strongest series thus far, probably the best live action production (including the movies) since Disney took over to be honest, it goes deepest into characters lives, shows new places and factions in depth, and while certainly not perfect it was very consistent in quality throughout (more so than the Mandalorian which is a bit up and down between episodes). 

It benefited from a full 12 episode series and an excellent cast and direction to bring the story alive. 

Disney have now shown they can make this quality of show - we should expect no less from the next series/movies they produce.
 

[Taegin Roan]

I’ve also now finished the series, and loved it the entire way. But it’s important when going into it to have a different perspective on it. Don’t look at it as a Star Wars show, because it’s not. Star Wars is about the Force, the struggle between light and dark, and the not-so-blatant theming. All of which is great, and works perfectly for a Star Wars show. This was very much a science-fiction show. A sci-fi, character driven, slow-burn, thriller, that happens to be set in the Star Wars universe. And that’s awesome. But it’s important to know that going in.

There was very little in it that was there for the sake of “fan-service”, or convenience. Almost everything felt necessary and believable. The characters where all extremely strong. The locations were believable. The performances were top-knotch. The costuming was probably the best I’ve ever seen.

I noticed this myself, and have heard several others talk about it in regards to The Rings of Power, but in RoP, the Southlanders had no character or personality in their character design. No culture, as it were. Whereas you go to Ferrix (a rough equivalent) and you’re instantly immersed in that world’s culture. You can learn things about the characters and the world. Even in things like the rows of gloves hanging on the wall. And then towards the end, the different colored uniforms, and the bricks, and how that all affects things. Even the Anvil, and the various other clanging things (purposely keeping things vague because of spoilers, but if you’ve watched it, you know). It all comes together to build a believable and living environment in a way that is just about unmatched in any other show or movie in recent years.

So yeah, while it’s not really “Star Wars”, it’s still the best thing they’ve put out since Rogue One or TCW. Loving the discussion here guys. I’ve missed it.

[Lord Vaalic]

I loved this show. I thought it was some of the best Star Wars content ever. Yes, I get it will not be everyone's cup of tea, but I thought it was awesome. Shows the harder side of being a rebel, what it takes, what it meant. New characters, new locations. Politicking, personalities, etc. A lower pace yes, but well worth any fans time.

ON PROGRAM...

[Darth Logos]

Alright time for something unprecedented. I'm going to post here because I actually watched the show due to Taegin's insistence. _{(#Ihateyousomuch)}

A little background: I really had no interest in seeing this as I felt the title character was as limp and soulless as Rey-ry Sue. So why would I start? SOMEBODY told me it was a decent political thriller. So I decided to give it a shot, and here are my thoughts.

Ep.1 pros/cons:

1.) Very film noir opening. I dig it. Don't think I've ever seen a "red-light" district depicted in SW.
2.) I am delightfully shocked by how cold blooded this gets right from the off. Which makes me wonder why they work so hard to make Han a "nice guy" when Cassian just shoots a man to tie up the loose end.
3.) Then comes the beginning of the nostalgia dump with a Y-Wing wannabe, only later we're to be shown the actual Y-Wing in the small ship yard.
4.) Ferrix seems to have a very Raxus Prime vibe to it....minus the toxic environment.
5.) B2EMO! Really?!? "Be too emo?"
6.) Ugh! Because we totally needed another indiscernible language so Disney can feel good about themselves for seeming overly inclusive. <rolls eyes> SPEAK BASIC. NTM, where the hell are all the adults?
7.) I'm a little torn about the droid lying. On the one hand, omitting the truth is not a fabrication. The droid simply follows the command to not speak. On the other hand, it could be labeled a lie of omission, but think it was more implied for him to respond "I have not seen him." In this case, the it would take a lot of processing power in order to fabricate a lie. So that was kinda neat.
8.) Kind of a limp second half of this episode, but I would like to know....what is their hardon for "mouth pieces"? By that I mean characters (usually male) that have a bad habit of perpetually trying to talk their way out of situations. I would have expected Cassian to be more of a man of action.

I'll admit that for a series I anticipated to be a soul crushing bore fest, this has my attention.

[Darth Logos]

Ep. 2 pros/cons:

1.) I like how the bell ringer is performing and not just ringing the time. I also love how they incorporated the bell tone into the music.
2.) AND......worse than the last episode's Y-Wing wannabe, they actually parked an actual Y-Wing in Pegla's yard.
3.) Back to the very Lord-of-the-Flies-esque troop of "warriors", why are they called "alphas" and why aren't we getting a translation about what's being said? I know they're trying to establish an un-previously-known aspect of Andor's past, but c'mon. Give something to bite into.
4.) What's THIS?!?!?!?!? SW alluding to an act of bow-chicka-bow-wow? Is this done? We all know that it has to happen, and a lot considering all the people, as well as seeing many kids running around. But.......the most that was ever "spoken" of was kissing. Kinda digging the break away from PG toward PG-13. Perhaps one day we'll finally get an R-rated story. Darth Pool

Not a terrible lot to talk about this episode. I'm hoping that this will just be a stepping stone ep in order to tell a really good story considering that we have 12 eps.

[Darth Logos]

Ep. 3 pros/cons:

(Ep.1 missed point) I missed out on commenting on Chief Hyne. Love him. Cool and smart. Very "Sherlock Holmes" in how he took what was known, and focused on the small details to arrive at what he concluded was the inevitable truth: regrettable to lose officers on duty, but those two most likely got theirs karmically rather than justly.

1.) I really admire how the community within the city sticks together at a perceived crisis. The Man is moving in hot and heavy and all the people work towards thwarting their efforts. Good, bad or indifferent, it falls down to our people are OUR people.
2.) I love Stellan (Luthen) being the smartest man in the room. He pulls it off so well. In retrospect, this is good character building to show how careful, calculating, and precise Luthen is.
3.) It would have been a decent shoot out.....except for the building spontaneously falling apart. It was lame to have the same thing over and over: hoists that have sat undisturbed for probably decades just spontaneously breaking free. It would have been ok had they been hit with explosives, but no.
4.) Not sure how this nav unit, or whatever it is, is going to play being left behind. Seems pretty important and of considerable value to both sides.
5.) OHOHOHOHOHOHOHO the Reckoning. Nuff said.
6.) What is with Andor's weapon cycling? Please stop with the useless visual fuctions. It just cheapens the design. {Just did some research} Apparently it's OC, and actually has a pretty well thought out function. Props to whoever researched (or just knew) this little tidbit.
7.) What's the game DSW? First allusions to Woo-hoo (points if you know ), and now $#!%? Was my prediction of PG-13 on point? Let's hope.
8.) Oooooooooo!!!! Luthen's ship is so beautifully assymetric. It almost has a very Rogue Shadow aesthetic I'm picking up.

[Darth Logos]

Ep. 4 pros/cons:

1.) This is nothing more than a HEIST?!?!
2.) The wardrobe in this is kinda failing. It doesn't really have a good SW feel. But, then this series is kinda shirking the typical SW vibe, which I am kinda digging. Sorta like TBB.
3.) And yet still more shameless movie plugs. Getting back to Disney having to perpetually remind us that we're watching something related to SW that we already saw in a movie. WE GET IT! This show ties into R1.
4.) Just have to throw in a kyber crystal. Though I feel like I should know what Luthen is talking about with the Rakatan invaders. (Did my research, and remembered that the title Darth is believed to have evolved from the Rakatan words "darr tah" - conqueror of death.) <kicking self>
5.) The numbers of the lift keypad are not aurebesh.
6.) OK, Mon's ridiculously flash speeder looks a bit too car like. A very nice looking car, but car none the less.
7.) W...TEL...F?!? Did they do a cheap ripoff of the Sith Stalker armor from TFU2 in Luthen's shop? They DID, and they bastardized it.
8.) Don't you love how these civil "servants" live better than 1M of their constituents combined? But dayum Mon Mothma just oozes taste, class & sophistication......except for her husband. What a douche.

[Darth Logos]

Ep.5 pros/cons:

1.) Question about Gorn: Why is a lieut out on a speeder bike? That doesn't raise any eyebrows at the garrison?
2.) WOW! Can't believe I'm saying this, but poor Karn. Raised in the lower mid-levels of Coruscant, where one sees the the for only seconds a day. No wonder he's so desperate to elevate his position in life. I actually loved how they filmed this scene. That he stays in that one spot so that the sun hits him. And his expression really shows how this brief period of light is the highest point of his typical day....and he knows it.
3.) And his mother. YIKES! What a piece of work.
4.) Why is little Mothma poorly cosplaying Katara from ATLAB?
5.) UGH! Still more movie tie-ins, but only DSW movies. (Hmmm) Disgusting. Jakku was a wasteland, whose only "production" is scrap and salvage. Plus, as far as is commonly known, Jakku hasn't even become relevant in the galaxy yet, and won't be for at least another 5-6 years. Boo bad story telling.
6.) UGH! Why does Luthen have oversized Jedi AND Sith holocrons in his shop? I know they're trying to make it appear that he knows where to get the goods, but do a little research. The Sith one?....maybe. Sith artifacts have always been sorta finders-keepers. But the Jedi would have kept far closer tabs on theirs, and almost their entire stockpile was most likely seized. More so, considering the overtly fascist nature of the Empire, there is a supreme likelihood that a place like Luthen's shop would have regular visits from Imp spies, to make sure he doesn't have anything that is "above his pay grade" so to speak. This likelihood increases further considering his choice clientel.

[Taegin Roan]

Largely more positive or negative so far? What you thinking, Logos? It is pretty different from any other SW thing so far, which in many ways gives it an advantage.