Form I: Shii-Cho

[Stephen Strange]

I am starting a topic to discuss and compair all forms as they are published now. Idea's etc. can be put in here. In order to try and determine on which version we can all relate too. The Jedi always shared knowledge... and I feel like we could make this into a new martial art. But as always the style is broken into several masters who not always can relate that well to each other... I am not stating this is my version... it is copied from the whole community... IT IS OUR VERSION!

I know the world of martial arts. As we are basically starting this anew I will do what I can to bring all knowledge together and maybe.. maybe.. we can come with an ultimate version.

This topic is on Shii-Cho only! I will make others the same way for the other forms.



Intro Saber Safety...
What is a light saber?! That is the most important thing before starting to make one art of something build around a fictional weapon. George Lucas originally wanted to call it Laser Sword... and that is what is the basic. A high powered laser beam colored by a crystal that magically stops at the length of a blade. It has been seen melting steel doors... and cuterises wounds instantly. It does not cut everything immediatly.. but most materials like normal metal, flesh, bone, wood is no challenge.

Unlike a real laser the Light Saber is a solid form of energy. And will block other lightsabers which can result in a 'lock up'. Like electro magnetic fields it bounces off. That is also the sound it makes... an electro-magnetic humm...

This is one of the parts that makes Star Wars more a fantasy space fairy-tale then Science-Fiction. Even for Science-Fiction the Light Saber is too far impossible. Almost magic... which is the same as the power the wielder controls. The discribing of 'the Force' is exactly the same as many magicians discribe the energy that binds the universe which can be controled for magic.

Back on topic to Saber Safety... The light Saber is a dangerous object. Accidents can happen with it many times easier then with a gun. A rifle at the shooting range has safety rules all people have to abide too. A real sword has rules the wielder have to keep too in order not to cut himself. So also a light saber. I gather a youngling gets to learn to ALWAYS point the hilt into a safe direction BEFORE activating the saber!Only to activate it when needed... and de-activate it when not needed anymore.

It cannot be that this basic rule isn't implemented as a major factor in the forms! I gather it would be the beginning and the start of each form too. A greet like in fencing is not working as that holds the dangerous beam close to ones face!

A light saber form cannot have any movement incorporated at all that brings the wielder in contact with the dangerous blade.. or even too close!!! Touching the ground seems like a bad idea too. Practice rooms would soon be a mess. And the blade can cut all sides! Unlike for instance a Katana. Now with this esteblished we know what works and what not.




Form I: Shii-Cho, also known as the Determination Form. Roughly every Force User was taught this Form when first handed a lightsaber.

Shii Cho is the First Form. It is referred to as the Determination Form, or the Way of the Sarlaac. It focuses on simplistic, albeit relentless, tactics.

Shii Cho was developed as Force Users began to transition from regular swords to Lightsabers as means of melee combat (at this point, Lightsabers were bulky Siege weapons). As such, its foundations are the basics of all sword fighting, including strike zones, parries and blocks. It was a two handed form, relying on broad, sweeping motions. Masters of Shii Cho were noted as having a distinct, watery flow.

Every Jedi, and arguably every Sith (as there is overlap between the two schools) had to learn Shii Cho when they began training. In A New Hope, when Obi-Wan has Luke training on the Millennium Falcon with the Remote, that is a Shii Cho practice (it gets mirrored with the Youngling training in Episode II). It teaches body movement, where to strike, while getting used to the feeling of the weapon. At the end of the scene in A New Hope, where Luke is blindfolded, it also teaches what separates wielding a lightsaber from holding a blade: Trust in the Force.

Shii Cho was used for crowd control. Its wide, angular motions were ideal for dealing with groups as it was constantly moving forward, like a bulldozer. In this regard, the lightsaber still maintains its use as a Siege weapon. In terms of combat, it has very strong similarities with Niman, in that it covers most of its bases.

(Source: Seven Forms Of Lightsaber Combat: A Discourse By Craig Page)

[Stephen Strange]

General Sun of NY Jedi

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVY9gT6W0Qk" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVY9gT6W0Qk</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La7aBRXAuPg" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La7aBRXAuPg</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-roAXmFNhY" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-roAXmFNhY</a>

[Stephen Strange]

Lucien

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWx6a42pN9k" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWx6a42pN9k</a>

[Stephen Strange]

Opening

Discussion is free.. reply to the right section!



General Sun starts with the saber on and holds it close to his face. I don't think that is a good way to handle a light saber at all! In my opinion he should hold the saber in front in a 45 degree angle... and then activate it!

Lucien does a more powerfull opening. But even though it is perfect for any sword... it doesn't fit the danger a light saber energy blade gives. He also doesn't active it. It is a great greeting but I don't think I like it in a form that is using a light saber.



One thing I give General Sun here is that according to the canon of Star Wars Shii-Cho should be a beginners form. And I gather it consists of movements wholding the hilt with two hands. What about a greeting as follows...

Saber off...
Hold it in front with two hands at 45 degree angle...
Activate the saber...
Drop it to a straight line...
Lift it again...

[Stephen Strange]

Opening

Other points on the opening...

- Feet together seems perfect!
- Would a Jedi keep eye contact with oponent or bend his head in regards to the force!?

Saber off...
Hold it in front with two hands at 45 degree angle...
Activate the saber...
Drop it to a straight line...
Lift it again...

Lifting the saber again would be back to 45 degrees ofcourse... I really don't like an all-cutting energy blade an inch from my face!

Does anyone has other versions on video that can be shown here. More idea's gives better discussion.

[ZequarX]

Opening:

Yea feet together look be real nice. I would think Jedi would keep eye contact while bending. As to never loos sight or focus of the opponent. FYI All this is AWESOME Stephen. Lucien's opening looks more fencing like to me, but I like it alot. I swear I've seen Raphael do that on Soul Calibur! And then Lucien resumes a stance similar to a samurai.

But I like Stephens cuz according to the movies and what we've been able to see thus far, the 45 degree angle hold seems fitting.

This is what I would do:
Saber off...
Traditional bow...
Hold it on front at 45 degree angle...
Activate saber...

Simple, yet effective

[Stephen Strange]

Opening:

Saber off...
Traditional bow...
Hold it on front at 45 degree angle...
Activate saber...

I actually like this... the japanese bow would fit. As they meditate in the same way too. Hold the saber hilt to the side while doing so..?

[Stephen Strange]

Proper grip in Shii-Cho

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SD5Ee3knco" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SD5Ee3knco</a>

It is something that comes natural for most sword fighters or any with some experience. But should be mentioned here for compleness...

[Stephen Strange]

Shii Cho was developed as Force Users began to transition from regular swords to Lightsabers as means of melee combat (at this point, Lightsabers were bulky Siege weapons). As such, its foundations are the basics of all sword fighting, including strike zones, parries and blocks. It was a two handed form, relying on broad, sweeping motions. Masters of Shii Cho were noted as having a distinct, watery flow.

Every Jedi, and arguably every Sith (as there is overlap between the two schools) had to learn Shii Cho when they began training. In A New Hope, when Obi-Wan has Luke training on the Millennium Falcon with the Remote, that is a Shii Cho practice (it gets mirrored with the Youngling training in Episode II). It teaches body movement, where to strike, while getting used to the feeling of the weapon. At the end of the scene in A New Hope, where Luke is blindfolded, it also teaches what separates wielding a lightsaber from holding a blade: Trust in the Force.

This here reminds me of the only good way we can simulate part of 'the force' in light saber combat. The Chi-Quon.. or... Chi-Soa on the Dragon Pole. Something I learned during Wing-Chun. I give a short movie below showing some Chi-Soa in the intro and the dragon pole in the main part of the movie.

It involves the use of the blades touching each other and feeling where the enemy puts the pressure... essentially it allows you to feel the force of the opponents attacks and therefore locate your target blindfolded. Combined with the basic movements and inituative reactions on the way a body is able to move attacks and blocks can be practiced to a level where it seems as if you know where the enemy strikes... before he knows it.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-ic0TosErc" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-ic0TosErc</a>

A funny thing... Chi sounds the same as Shii... in chinese martial arts it is the energy flow in the body. An energy you can build up and use... And the force is the energy that surrounds us.

[ZequarX]

Hold the saber hilt to the side while doing so..?

You could do this as well. I was thinking of holding your saber about 6 inches from your face, elbows slightly bent out and up, and then a simple bow following.

And to another point, Stephen, the Chi-Soa, my cousin an I practice this every time we fight with bokkens. It establishes striking distance and all the other great points that Stephen has pointed out.

Honestly, I couldn't be putting any of this together better myself

[Master Nero Attoru]

Wow... quite a thread you got here!  Well done Stephen.

The funny thing is, while General Sun's form is something of an "industry standard" in this hobby, I kinda like Lucien's version better.  The way he executes it is more reminiscent of kendo forms I've seen (courtesy of MAV), which is what I typically associate with Shii-Cho.

To me, both versions share similar ideas and are very representative of the ideas behind Shii-Cho.  As your quote from Uilos's guide to lightsaber combat indicates, it was developed as a crowd clearer, to address multiple foes.  This explains the wide, powerful cuts.  In addition, due to its status as a beginner's form, I always considered it "neutral" in terms of offense vs defense.  Many of the Forms cling to a specific side - Djem So, Ataru, and Juyo are VERY aggressive, while Soresu and Makashi utilize much more defense - but Shii-Cho to me is neither of these.  The center stance, blade tip pointed towards the opponent, allows for this type of balance (giving the duelist easy access to either strike or parry at a moment's notice).

More thoughts to come...

[Stephen Strange]

You could do this as well. I was thinking of holding your saber about 6 inches from your face, elbows slightly bent out and up, and then a simple bow following.

During my katana lessons we held the katana with the hand to the left hip. Taking the bow japanese fashion keeping eye contact... grabbing the hilt of the katana and holding it in front at 45 degrees.

If we do that and activate the saber... Would work for me.

It is the same as how Yoda draws his saber.. only he uses the force to bring the hilt to his hand.

[Stephen Strange]

The funny thing is, while General Sun's form is something of an "industry standard" in this hobby, I kinda like Lucien's version better.  The way he executes it is more reminiscent of kendo forms I've seen (courtesy of MAV), which is what I typically associate with Shii-Cho.

General Sun is excecuting his movements in an almost meditative way.. slow and low powered. But he works all basic attacks in it.. divided in three parts so beginners can learn it easier. Will break it down to the bone here though. Evaluating every part.

I gather we might end up with a high powered longer version of Lucien's Shii-Cho. Incorporating all important parts.

[ZequarX]

If we do that and activate the saber... Would work for me. It is the same as how Yoda draws his saber.. only he uses the force to bring the hilt to his hand.

I like it, and completely forgot Yoda did this! I think with form I, you want your opening to be relatively simple. That way everyone, even those with lack of coordination can follow the step by steps we create.

Can anyone find Yoda's opening stance and post if for our visual learners? 

[Stephen Strange]

Opening

The big question is.. do we keep the greeting the same on all forms? As the only light saber greeting in the game is the fencing greeting Count Dooku does...

It is the same as Lucien does... but at least four inches away from the face straight up.




So Makashi should start like that at least.. I leave Makashi to Nero. But should we standarise the greeting?

Dooku...
- point saber 45 degrees to the side to the floor
- activate saber
- bring it straight up at least 4 inches from face
- swing it in a powerful turn down to the same stance it started

Lucien is not completely straight ... and he bends slightly during the downwards move...