Which martial arts style offers the most for light sabering?

[Master Artorius Vidnyl]

Everyone overlooks iaido/iaijutsu and goes straight to Kendo.  Iaijutsu translates to The Art of Drawing the Sword.  Sure, lightsabers don't use a scabbard but you still have to take it off your belt and you won't always have time to spare.  Everybody go do someresearch on Iaido.

Only issue: traditional Iaijutsu instructors are hard to find in the US.  Otherwise it's where I draw a ton of my basic concepts from.

Cheers.

[Master Rel]

Agreed. One of those selective arts that mean something in a fight.  In our Kendo class we had a visiting Kendo instructor who also was an instructor for Iaido.

It was just a demo of real blade skills, but impressive none the less.

[Veldryne]

The motions of aikido work very well, and it feels very adaptable to a soresu style.

As for the karate  that i did years ago, i find the basic footwork helps, but the rest of it is far too rigid a form to translate to the fluid movements of a lightsaber.

[Master Rel]

The motions of aikido work very well, and it feels very adaptable to a soresu style.

As for the karate  that i did years ago, i find the basic footwork helps, but the rest of it is far too rigid a form to translate to the fluid movements of a lightsaber.

True all true, but karate does offer a strong base...the legs are focal and thus helps with everything that includes footwork.

Not as flashy and showy as the Wu Shu, but for the strong core techniques karate has much to offer...hard not to have confidence with this strong base.

[Veldryne]

Oh for the footwork and the legs most definately, but i find the upper body work was very very rigid, and relied on a lot of snaps (for lack of a better term) of the hips/torso as you follow through on a strike, that feel incredibly awkward with a saber.

Good example, i was taking one of the most basic kata, and the footwork from it, and trying to adapt it into some basic strikes from shi cho, and it just...did not flow even remotely

[Darth Nonymous]

I will admit to a bais in this opinion, but I have found many of the Chinese martial arts ideal for translation. One reason is the multitude of weapons available. the other reasons the variety of techniques. Wushu obviously has performance potential, but styles like Ma Tong Bei, Most "internal" schools, and schools centered around areas (Shoalin, Wudang etc.) combine many techniques from a variety of sources. Very much like what today people ascribe to Bruce Lee, it has actually been a traditional way of martial art in China for a long time.

For example: MA Tong Bei combine three basic forms of boxing (baji, piqua, fanzi, and choujiao) and weapon truing regimens. the term "tong Bei" means through cultivation and it is assumed that each "art" covers a basic train concept. While some may be adapt at one, others may be better at another. By combining the training you get a ver collegiate type system of majors and minors of study. This would produce a huge well spring fodder to inspire lightsaber combat. Shaolin brags that it encompasses 18 classical weapons. That too, would seem a great data store.

[ZequarX]

Well I took MMA for a little bit, and I apply stuff from that all the time. And after reading the nice breakdown Uilos gave of all the Forms, I believe that he compared Djem So to MMA or really just BJJ. When my brother and I lock up saber's I immediately go into BJJ mode and attempt to sweep his legs, attempt an arm twist or anything else that makes me think of BJJ.

It sounds like Wushu is a pretty common comparison. Gotta do some research now!

[Darth Nonymous]

Well I took MMA for a little bit, and I apply stuff from that all the time. And after reading the nice breakdown Uilos gave of all the Forms, I believe that he compared Djem So to MMA or really just BJJ. When my brother and I lock up saber's I immediately go into BJJ mode and attempt to sweep his legs, attempt an arm twist or anything else that makes me think of BJJ.

It sounds like Wushu is a pretty common comparison. Gotta do some research now!

Other than for body mechanics and fitness, I usually try to keep weapon analogs for weapons based stuff. That's why I shy away from using barehanded "styles" or training to compare to lightsaber. True, the universal philosophies are good things to encompass in all fight psychology, but technically speaking there are going to be huge gaps in training. First, the weapon aspect is missing. Learning how to maneuver something in your hand while trying to maximize power and control is an entirely different process than making your own body do it by it's self. I do both, and most of the folks who concentrate on bare handed (some of our fighters who fight MMA or full contact kickboxing) are often very surprise at how difficult it is to stop thinking about the weapon. There is also the fact that with a weapon, you are moving external resistance, bare handed you are moving you body weight only.

For me, Djem So is pretty straight forward long sword technique. It doesn't matter too much what type (German, Chinese, Korean, Polish) the mechanics of the weapon are pretty universal. Most of them dictated by physics of the weapon. The strategy is very similar as well based on what I have read around here and Wookiepedia et al.

This is not to say bare handed training is not valuable for weapons based combat, just that they have their own sets of parameters.

[Master VorNach]

I will admit to a bias in this opinion, but I have found many of the Chinese martial arts ideal for translation. One reason is the multitude of weapons available. the other reasons the variety of techniques.... (edited for brevity)

What he said.

In addition I am a proponent of Western martial practices. Some of the styles that translate well are the German and Italian sword arts form the 15th & 16th centuries:

Italian longsword - http://youtu.be/ONqJjBR0nGc

German longsword - http://youtu.be/T5PXsznTHbQ and http://youtu.be/Kj4Ng6DBfrg

Messer, German short sword - http://youtu.be/yTBijiK-d8o
German short sword,  taught by some Italians - http://youtu.be/ruszwDVGwn8

Umbrella - http://youtu.be/wfcwUkb7kWI

Safe journey.

[Darth Nonymous]

What he said.

In addition I am a proponent of Western martial practices. Some of the styles that translate well are the German and Italian sword arts form the 15th & 16th centuries:

Italian longsword - http://youtu.be/ONqJjBR0nGc

German longsword - http://youtu.be/T5PXsznTHbQ and http://youtu.be/Kj4Ng6DBfrg

Messer, German short sword - http://youtu.be/yTBijiK-d8o
German short sword,  taught by some Italians - http://youtu.be/ruszwDVGwn8

Umbrella - http://youtu.be/wfcwUkb7kWI

Safe journey.

I think it is interesting to note that in all probability, it is the western stuff that has influenced much of the lightsaber aesthetic . The simple fact being that the first three films were choreographed and staged by folks from those backgrounds like Bob Anderson.

[Master Nero Attoru]

A question to all those longsword practitioners.

Most videos I've seen appear to utilize a lot of the sword's guard in parries.  It looks very effective with the longsword, but I've always wondered how that comes into play with lightsabers... as they typically don't have the large guards that you see on medieval swords.  Do you find you have to alter your technique?  And does this compromise its effectiveness at all?

I'm just curious, because I don't have a whole lot of experience in that arena (although I'd like to!).

[Darth Nonymous]

A question to all those longsword practitioners.

Most videos I've seen appear to utilize a lot of the sword's guard in parries.  It looks very effective with the longsword, but I've always wondered how that comes into play with lightsabers... as they typically don't have the large guards that you see on medieval swords.  Do you find you have to alter your technique?  And does this compromise its effectiveness at all?

I'm just curious, because I don't have a whole lot of experience in that arena (although I'd like to!).

Good question.

I will let VorNach answer directly about the cross guard since he is the German longsword maestro. The guard on the chinese sword is smaller for faster wielding and doesn't have as much use as the European versions.

That being said, we have not found any problem adapting it with the sabers. There are of course techniques we must abandon to a large extent (half swording, hilt clubbing, etc.). The techniques for most parries is difficult to see. We are seldom aiming to "stop" the strike with the guard but rather, we meet and guide the incoming blade off target. If your weapon has a cross bar, this give you a larger margin of error in those techniques.

Also, and I am not the German expert, The cross guard can be used to disarm or lock the blade. Most of the time though, the techniques are optional not integral.

Check out the end of the the last Shi-cho Dueling video. There are a few short exerts of some sparring we did. It gives a good flavor.

[Master Lucien Kane]

I typically pick lightsabers with flange type emitters, it deflects the blade off of your fingers and catches the blade quite often. I'd call it cheating, but most emitters of this style would have been made out of cortosis or phrik alloy.

[Master VorNach]

A question to all those longsword practitioners.
Most videos I've seen appear to utilize a lot of the sword's guard in parries.  It looks very effective with the longsword, but I've always wondered how that comes into play with lightsabers... as they typically don't have the large guards that you see on medieval swords.  Do you find you have to alter your technique?  And does this compromise its effectiveness at all?

Master Nero,
For clarification there are actually not a lot of parries in the German longsword style, certainly they do occur but the teachings of the original masters place a lot of emphasis on not using, so called, empty parries. The cross guard is used extensively for trapping, re-directing and protecting the hands in the bind as opposed to just blocking.

So while there are a lot of applications that involve using the cross-guard since there isn't one on a lightsaber we have to toss some of them out. (sigh). The most obvious, as Darth Nonymous mentioned, involve half-swording, blade grabs and reverse grip (holding the blade by both hands and striking with the cross guard and pommel). There are a number of more subtle uses of the cross guard, usually related to the redirection I mentioned, that also are dropped or modified.

Fortunately, as Darth N and I have been finding,  there are ways to adapt the principles of a number of those techniques. Frequently this involves simply (simply ? ok, I may be understating a bit here) changing the angle of your blade in relation to your hands and arms.

I'm now going to make a lot of references to this video: http://youtu.be/Kj4Ng6DBfrg
It shows a number of techniques that use the cross guard and some variations on the techniques that skip that use.

Between 0:09 and 0:16 there are a number of counters where one combatant uses the cross guard to redirect the opponents blade while simultaneously attacking the head. In this same span is a variation that redirects the blade without using the cross.

At 0:24 the combatant on the right has displaced his partners blade to thrust to his face. He's using the cross guard to protect his hands. At 0:22 he does the same basic technique but his displacement drives his partners blade completely out of line, removing the need to use the cross guard.

The sequences from 00:44 to 00:52 involve the use the cross guard to trap and control the partners blade in a fashion that would probably not be very effective without the guard.

So to actually answer your questions: Yes I've been altering my techniques. I can't really say this has truly compromised my effectiveness though. On one hand I have fewer techniques in my arsenal, on the other hand there are a lot of other techniques out there that are not impacted at all. The more important factor, for me at least, are the larger principals such as timing, distance, situational awareness, etc. At this point I can pick up a sword, a pipe, a lightsaber, an umbrella or a broom handle and wield it effectively. There's enough material in the toolbox that I can adapt the tool to the situation, without getting caught up in what I can't do just because my umbrella does not have a cross guard (though perhaps I'll go build one for it now.... hmmmm).

If there's interest (and we can find the time) perhaps Darth Nonymous and I can put together a sample video with some of the common cross guard reliant techniques and the lightsaber variants of them at some point.

Safe journey.

[Master Lucien Kane]

Everyone overlooks iaido/iaijutsu and goes straight to Kendo.  Iaijutsu translates to The Art of Drawing the Sword.  Sure, lightsabers don't use a scabbard but you still have to take it off your belt and you won't always have time to spare.  Everybody go do someresearch on Iaido.

Only issue: traditional Iaijutsu instructors are hard to find in the US.  Otherwise it's where I draw a ton of my basic concepts from.

Cheers.

Can't believe I missed this post... Iaido/Iaijutsu is awesome! Gorgeous style, with deadly application!