Saberlab report: Duel wielding and saber staff in combat.

[Master Nero Attoru]

My personal opinion is to learn a single bladed saber first. That being said, i don't think it is impossible. But it would be tons easier if you knew what you were doing with one blade.

I completely agree with this.  The single weapon concept is the easiest to approach, and therefore one of the best places to start.  Since it is quite a bit easier for a beginner, it allows one to obtain a stronger foundation in the basics, which is essential for more advanced concepts like dual wielding.  After all, dual wielding is essentially using two singular weapons in tandem... I would think starting with that would be like running before you walk.

[Master VorNach]

But man, its still fun to whip around!!! 

A point for your enthusiasm and your name.
Welcome to US.

[Volund Starfire]

One of the costumes I am hoping to complete for Celebration VI is a Savage Opress.  So, while I am building my double-bladed saber, I am also going through all four episodes of TCW that he is in and watching his style.  Well, it's not really a style, per se.

Fighting Ventress in hand to hand in the first episode, he is using Savate.  That appears to vanish the moment he gets pumped up on the Nightsister Steroids.  His axe technique is more European footman than martial artist.  Using it as a club with a blade to bash through rather than finesse in any form.  Then we get into his lightsaber technique...

There is none.  He uses the lightsaber like a green belt uses a bo to show off to his friends.  He forces it through, pushes his parries, and generally tries to overwhelm using his sheer strength.  Needless to say, it is a very sloppy form, but works with his 'roid rage.

His spinning is what caught my eye, though.  Most especially in S03E14 (Witches of the Mist).  Toward the end of the episode, he is in the middle of a group of battle droids and is spinning his saber to deflect their blaster fire.  He more flips it between his hands (lifting his left hand while lowering his right and vise versa).

Though, he is also seen doing the rudimentary spins that are shown on this very board.  However, he is seem to do it only once, so it might have been an accident.  Besides that, he uses it more like a battering ram in combat.

For other spinning techniques, besides Ray Park, look up the season 4 episodes with Pong Krell and the SWTOR Cinematic Trailers Hope and Return (With Satele Shan).  Those have some good clear graphics of saber spinning in context to the Star Wars Universe.

[Thonolan]

Resurrecting a old thread, I just wanted to post a thank you to Master Nonymous for that video on the wing blade. I am going to get that to our teammate with the saber staff.

Points!!

[Master Nero Attoru]

One of the costumes I am hoping to complete for Celebration VI is a Savage Opress.  So, while I am building my double-bladed saber, I am also going through all four episodes of TCW that he is in and watching his style.  Well, it's not really a style, per se.

Fighting Ventress in hand to hand in the first episode, he is using Savate.  That appears to vanish the moment he gets pumped up on the Nightsister Steroids.  His axe technique is more European footman than martial artist.  Using it as a club with a blade to bash through rather than finesse in any form.  Then we get into his lightsaber technique...

There is none.  He uses the lightsaber like a green belt uses a bo to show off to his friends.  He forces it through, pushes his parries, and generally tries to overwhelm using his sheer strength.  Needless to say, it is a very sloppy form, but works with his 'roid rage.

His spinning is what caught my eye, though.  Most especially in S03E14 (Witches of the Mist).  Toward the end of the episode, he is in the middle of a group of battle droids and is spinning his saber to deflect their blaster fire.  He more flips it between his hands (lifting his left hand while lowering his right and vise versa).

Though, he is also seen doing the rudimentary spins that are shown on this very board.  However, he is seem to do it only once, so it might have been an accident.  Besides that, he uses it more like a battering ram in combat.

For other spinning techniques, besides Ray Park, look up the season 4 episodes with Pong Krell and the SWTOR Cinematic Trailers Hope and Return (With Satele Shan).  Those have some good clear graphics of saber spinning in context to the Star Wars Universe.

I actually really like that they did that though, it demonstrates in a physical way what a brute he is.  He lacks the technique of Maul, and compensates with pure, overwhelming strength and ferocity.  One of those cases where the animators got the characterization down perfectly.

[Darth Pelage]

This thread is fantastic!! This thoroughly answered a few questions I had lingering in my mind since TPM's theatrical release, about double-bladed lightsabers. Major points!!

Experience, creativity, instinct and control are what I think determine the outcome of a duel regardless of the weapons being utilized. Plus a pinch of psychological warfare can tip the scale of any duel in one's favor (Dun Möch). ;3

If there's one thing I've learned in the past four years, it is to never underestimate anyone EVER!!

[Starswirl]

A question for one of the resident Masters:

Since the double-bladed/dual-wielded sabers give the wielder... well... an extra blade, and there seems to be a good technique for saberstaff spinning): does that suit them (the staff in particular) for the "circle of protection" Master Nonymous talks about in his Soresu videos? In other words, do saberstaffs have advantages over single blades in defensive combat, Soresu in particular?

[Darth Nonymous]

A question for one of the resident Masters:

Since the double-bladed/dual-wielded sabers give the wielder... well... an extra blade, and there seems to be a good technique for saberstaff spinning): does that suit them (the staff in particular) for the "circle of protection" Master Nonymous talks about in his Soresu videos? In other words, do saberstaffs have advantages over single blades in defensive combat, Soresu in particular?

Yes, that was one of our questions too.

It depends on how you are interpreting Soresu. As I used the 2x blade I found the most effective strategy was to hold back a bit and let the opponent come in. As I have stated before, I am of the opinion that this weapon is best in mid to short range. So a "defensive" strategy than what most people would think it called for.

However, the extra blade actually reduces your range of motion with the weapon. It can be difficult to move enough to pull the second blade around with hitting yourself. Blaster deflection suck with this weapon, the hilt being as long as it is, and the fact that second blade stop you from going low or getting enough movement to defect.

I would say the weapon can give a defensive advantage, but you must know the weapon very, very well.

Experience, creativity, instinct and control are what I think determine the outcome of a duel regardless of the weapons being utilized. Plus a pinch of psychological warfare can tip the scale of any duel in one's favor (Dun Möch). ;3

If there's one thing I've learned in the past four years, it is to never underestimate anyone EVER!!

This is the essence of martial art. You have discovered the secret that enables one to reach high levels in these rings. Point to you.

[Oramac]

I'll go ahead and second everyone else in their appreciation for this thread!  It answered a great many questions I had about staffs/dual wielding.  In particular I was curious about their use as a part of Soresu (particularly dual wielding).  Excellent info here. 

That said, as someone who's been training with firearms most of my life, some of the comparisons here don't really work as intended, I think.  The pistol/shotgun analogy works, but comparing caliber without comparing the person wielding it is, unfortunately, ineffective.  Essentially, a small caliber wielded by an expert can be (but is not always) equally or more effective than a larger caliber wielded by a novice.  This translates well to what all the Masters are saying about the difference between a novice and expert wielding the same weapon.

One other thing I wanted to point out with the staff is that it's literally impossible for us to truly train with it as a Jedi would, for the simple fact that a Jedi would have the option to strategically turn off one blade mid-fight.  Exar Kun was well known for using this tactic. 

Overall, I'm thrilled to see this kind of discussion out there.  And the cicada wing blade video was extremely informative.   

[Starswirl]

Who knows, though. Maybe Ultrasabers will release a Quick Disconnect option for the blade as well as the LED 
Yes, that video certainly was. Not as long as the double-bladed sabers here, but he was very fluid and controlled.

[Darth Cholesterol]

I love dual wielding and ordered my ultrasabers with the shorter (youngling) length blades just for that purpose.  One thing I was taught is to practice single hand wielding with my off hand.  So since I'm a righty I make a point of holding my saber with just my left hand when drilling strikes and blocks. It's  a strange sensation at first but you get used to it.

[Solinus]

I love dual wielding and ordered my ultrasabers with the shorter (youngling) length blades just for that purpose.  One thing I was taught is to practice single hand wielding with my off hand.  So since I'm a righty I make a point of holding my saber with just my left hand when drilling strikes and blocks. It's  a strange sensation at first but you get used to it.

I tried the same thing... I feel REALLY awkward with a saber in my left hand. I want to order the Pantasm Initiate to see how it feels. The staff is 18", which makes each hilt 9" long. That's about 3" shorter (on average) than regular length hilts. That may be perfect for me!

[Master VorNach]

I tried the same thing... I feel REALLY awkward with a saber in my left hand. I want to order the Pantasm Initiate to see how it feels.

They'll all feel awkward while you're getting used to using your off hand. That feeling will usually last until it does not feel awkward any more. 
Practice, practice, practice.

"It's the difficulty that makes it worthwhile.
If it was easy, everyone would do it."

[Solinus]

They'll all feel awkward while you're getting used to using your off hand. That feeling will usually last until it does not feel awkward any more. 
Practice, practice, practice.

"It's the difficulty that makes it worthwhile.
If it was easy, everyone would do it."

I'll be ordering the Pantasm Initiate next week, possibly on Monday, barring any unexpected financial difficulties. I really want shorter hilts. Hopefully this will help.

Once again, your advice and guidance is most helpful Master VorNach!

[Master VorNach]

I'll be ordering the Pantasm Initiate next week, possibly on Monday,

Let me know what you think of the Phantasm. I'm considering that for a purchase in the next several weeks.

Once again, your advice and guidance is most helpful Master VorNach!

Ah, but not my snarky comments. 
You do yourself proud Solinus. Most people do not have the dedication to train as often or as hard as you do without anyone else physically present to work with them.