My thoughts on this:
First of all there's really good advice on club forming here:
http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=1770.0and here:
http://www.saberwars.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=279And I'd read through all of it and take it all to heart if I were you, I think you'll find it answers all your questions.
Firstly: Unless I've completely misunderstood something, as far as I've understood it the various forms are not set in stone but more or less "made up" by the individual practicing them.
What I'm trying to say I don't wanna step on anybodys toes by putting up videos of, for instance, our version of shii-cho, if it's already set in stone...I've already gotten ideas on how to combine all the things I learned in my 8 years of tae-kwon-do training with wielding a saber...so am I right in thinking that the strikes, parries etc varies from person to person?
You are absolutely correct in that developing the seven forms of lightsaber combat of the old Jedi order and the three forms of the new Jedi order are still very much up in the air. You could definitely put up videos of your club's version of shii-cho. There's always going to be differences and such.
However, in my opinion, don't go from scratch. Read through the collected media: Wookieepedia, Uilos718's paper here (
http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=2131.0 ) - and importantly, I think, look at what everyone else has done. I'm not sure when you should look at other videos - before you've started creating your own, after you started creating your own, during... but you'll find that it may make you include things you hadn't thought of.
Worst case scenario: you create a form that was from scratch, has had no influence from anybody else, no research done into it - maybe you make it just an old TKD form with a weapon tacked on and you say "there, that's our shii-cho". Well, even worst case scenario, you've at least gone and done something. You're having fun doing it. You're getting your thoughts out there. You're being productive. If you post a video like that though, you may receive constructive criticism ("that does not match what this nerd said on Wookieepedia and this is why") or be out and out disregarded - but don't get angry, just have a thick skin. If you feel like it, state your position.
But... I feel that even though we have all these different people and schools working on developing things and we'll all develop differently and come up with different styles, as with the myriad versions of martial arts throughout the world, I think the end goal for Star Wars fans is to be able to point at the seven forms from different schools of thought and be able to say "yes, these are all somewhat different but all match the descriptions and what I think of when I think of this form". And I think the ultimate end goal is to have various schools around the world not differing wildly when they talk about Shii-Cho, or Soresu. But the challenge in synchronizing is interesting, the differences will always be there, and the differences are also worthwhile to have.
You'll also discover that at this point with some of the styles (Shii-Cho for example) there are different schools, or implementations, already. The videos out there and vast description about and media created means you should be able to duplicate from home - it's not perfect but we're getting there. But they can all be very similar (thankfully). I'd encourage you to not vary drastically - consume and digest. You won't see any enormously wild flair spinning in a proper Shii-Cho, for example. It takes tremendous thought and practice and research to implement the words given as physical form. "Creating your own shii-cho" is not something that can be done overnight.
Understand: Wookieepedia may say "so-and-so practices Djem So and Ataru" but the movies are just that, the movies. You can be inspired by them but they were intended to entertain, not to demonstrate. The forms are an after-the-fact development, they did not pre-exist the movies. (Believe it or not some people need this reality check!)
Many of the martial artists here are concerned with the form and style development. Many of the choreographers are concerned also with this, but from a showman's point of view - needing to entertain as well as demonstrate - so in some ways less so.
In the end, we're all a bunch of nerds trying to turn the briefest of descriptions created by a bunch of authors into a true physical act. We're going to be different. A lot of it at this point will simply be a specific person's experience plus lightsabers, sure. But we are indeed trying to get beyond that. The very thought is preposterous. We'll never be able to do it this generation. We'll certainly try though.
So... my advice is: you won't step on anyone's toes, but avoid reinventing the wheel. If you feel that strongly that it should be done differently, then go ahead and reinvent the wheel. But I can see just how difficult creating a form from scratch can be, and there's reasons why these similarities exist.
Since you're just starting out, I'd encourage you to obsessively devour everything: the videos coming out of New York Jedi and other SaberWars clubs of various forms, the NSCSC DVDs, the videos from Terra Prime Lightsaber Academy, everything. Find the ones you enjoy the most, try to imitate it. Copy it as much as you can, and provide your own personal flair if you want, or obsessively copy in detail if you want. Whatever.
Also, and this is just my favorite thing to hate on: If you're going to create your own video, and say "this is our shii-cho", and yet it's clearly inspired by so-and-so (General Sun, Terra Prime, whatever) - give credit where credit is due. Don't take someone else's work and just call it something else, or change two moves and say "and now this is mine". Yours may be different, but make clear what your influences are, or else you will just be some arrogant dude claiming ownership. Talk about your influences, and you will be more creditable and believable. Put it in the description of the Youtube video, the thread you start, whatever.
Secondly: How widespread is free sparring compared to choregraphed fights? (which is what we'll be wanting to advance towards) and on the same subject: how much are things like roleplaying etc. thrown into the combat/training?
From my experience coming from having actually been in clubs already:
In the United States:
- backyard free sparring duelers outnumber the number of choreography fights and clubs, but the choreography clubs are much more visible on the Internet and much better organized. The choreographed fights are documented, without fail, online. The lightsaber free sparrers tend to be a lot more diffuse through Jedi Religion, Jedi Realist sects, martial arts schools, choreography clubs, and very unorganized and undocumented.
- my experience with most people who only want to do free sparring and not martial arts or choreography is that they have a certain "bloodlust", they don't want to have a system or style, they generally just want to "go at it". Before you guys start going "well, I want to spar and I'm not like that!" - SaberForum.com seems to be collecting the smaller minority of free sparrers and martial artists that also want there to be rules, have systems, have styles, but perhaps that's just my interpretation of things.
- even in choreography clubs, there will be those who want to try free sparring. Basically, the interest will always be there. There's a certain value to it every once in a while in a choreography club if you're doing it safely (allows you to think on your toes, learn to improve your physical awareness, face fears of getting hit, etc.) although most choreography clubs that I've been in that have added free sparring did it only once in a while (once a month/every other month like a "treat") instead of every day like the free sparrers, did it with foam boffers or Nerf swords or what have you, created rule systems ("no strikes at the head or groin") that most sparrers wouldn't think of doing. Also, without fail, if you do not have safety equipment (and most of the clubs that I've been in that practiced sparring occasionally did not require ANYTHING other than foam weapons - no masks, no padding, not even jock straps and cups - it was left up to the students and most were lazy) - someone usually gets hurt, typically in a minor way. I've seen black eyes, bloodied noses, twisted ankles, pulled muscles, even in experienced clubs that have been around for years.
In summary, the free sparrers are more widespread, but more diffuse and unorganized. In a choreography club, sparring's okay to try once in a while, but I'd avoid making it a daily/weekly thing.
In a martial arts club, it will be something used more often to test skill, but even then, don't be crazy about it. When I took karate, we did sparring once or twice a month in classes twice a week for the lower belts, and higher belts could go more frequently but before/after classes, or at differently scheduled classes.
My point of view: since I know you're trying to start a club - I don't see "only free sparrers" as having focus. They just want to fight and to win. There's typically no desire for system, for style. They will typically wash out of a club that wants to do choreographed fights: they can't do their fight the same way twice, their swings may be wild. And a choreographer will often wash out of a group that just wants to spar, due to the lack of system.
So, for your club, you need to all talk and find your focus. Are you just going to be a bunch of guys sparring in your backyard? That's fine, but please try to be safe. Our community doesn't want to see a round of lawsuits and cease-and-desists from something you did, and vice-versa. Are you going to develop personal styles, choreograph fights? That's fine as well. Do you want to approach this as a martial art? Sure. Can you do both, or all? Yes - but speaking from experience, your group will eventually focus on one aspect over another. Better to hash it out right now while you're starting. Discuss as long as you need.
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Roleplaying adds another aspect to this:
- for choreographed fights, it can help provide a storyline to your fights. Fight choreography is telling a story through a fight, so this can be a really good thing.
- for free sparrers and martial artists, roleplaying can provide artificial limitations where once there was none, forcing your thinking into different ways, and bring some fantasy and imagination into what would otherwise be straight-forward and almost dry and uncreative.
Generally speaking you will find roleplaying interesting choreographers/performers/actors more than the sparrers and martial artists.
In the United States, roleplaying in the choreography clubs is mostly done through online chatrooms, messageboards, and email. I don't know of any choreography clubs that have added live-action roleplay into the mix. (Choreography clubs will occasionally have classes that focus on acting and performance and will often have elements of "how would your character do this" and "fight how your character would fight" and improv ("okay, everybody's character is now in the Cantina. Interact. And... go") but that can be very different from live-action roleplay. Acting drills are several steps away from fully immersing yourself in the world as this person.)
I will say this: for choreographers, creating a character is very important. You need someone to portray. Maybe it's just you in a Jedi costume. Maybe it's you wearing street clothes. Maybe you're dressed as Superman. Or maybe it's a character with a wildly different personality. In the end, you need to have this characterization - you're trying to tell a story in your fight, remember? A story always contains characters. My prioritization for performances is: (self-contained) story first, characters second, setting third.
On the other hand, this can be taken to extremes. I have a friend in an unnamed club. They created a character and put years into their development - writing fan fictions for the messageboards, massive amounts of backstory, participating in roleplay online and off. They can slip into character in a performance, at a class, at the drop of a hat. They have a difference voice, a different walk, a different fighting style. But... this character never dies. Not in fiction, okay. But NEVER in performances? I mean, seriously - at best they're wounded. Perhaps there's a retconned "healing factor" or "immortality" or "regeneration" - that's fine - in fiction - but never let it impact your performance! If there's drama to be gained by dying on stage: do it. Let go of your ego, and do right by the story. One friend said this: "tie your fights into the roleplay all you want, but when it comes down to it, performances are non-canon, so go ahead and do the things you might not let your character do in fiction"
So - it depends what you mean by roleplaying. Do you mean "portraying a character that is either subtly or drastically different from yourself"? - do it. You'll find it adds to everything: to the comradery in your club, the in-jokes and humor, the drama of performances, everything.
But do you mean "fully immersing yourself into character: thinking as your character, moving as your character, fighting as your character, and attempting to believe you are the character in universe" - well... don't lose yourself. Immerse yourself as a Sith, and find your fights become wild, your finely-tuned choreography leaving your brain while in the moment. Immerse yourself as a Jedi, and find your dialogue become stilted by Lucas (haha). Immerse yourself, and find that you suddenly have a character you can't lose.
Another friend of mine put it such: "as a villain, I anticipate many glorious deaths." - which basically sums it up for me. There's a certain formulaicness to the Star Wars universe: the sprawling space opera, the Joseph Campbell character archetypes. Don't be campy about it, but don't completely throw it out the window. We have this big universe to play in, but still make sure that the audience still recognizes it when you're done with it. The audience wants good guy vs bad guy, master vs apprentice, master and apprentice versus unknown threat - but they also want to be entertained. Tell a different story if you want, but don't ignore your roots either. You can have it both ways.
Another problem with roleplay is not just getting wrapped up in characters but wrapped up in storyline. A different unnamed club once tried this: a online roleplaying game (messageboard) and a consistent cohesive universe in which people could write their fan fiction. It had a vastly plotted out overall storyline. People could approach the organizers and say "my character is going here and this is what will happen" and the organizers would provide details to interlock their narrative into the overarching plot. Then they decided that much of the current storyline would culminate in a performance at a large local convention, with sound/lighting/video, and many fights.
Ambitious? To say the least. But arrogance? Yeah. The audience had no clue what the storyline was and even who most of the characters were, even when presented with pamphlets. It was just too much information. The audience just wanted to be entertained by fights. And while many fights were entertaining, many weren't - the choreographers being so focused on story and character that they hadn't been able to step away from it and go "was that entertaining? did it portray a story?"
Finally - don't create a character you can't physically portray. It's fine in the fiction, but bringing it to a convention? You better be able to do it. It's one thing if your character can fly in fiction and cannot in real life (sure, keep the wings in the costume if you want), it's quite another if your character is a 9-foot tall muscular female and you are none of those three. If what you imagine and what you look like are close, but due to finances you can't afford the fancy costume? Don't worry about that, you'll get there. If the musculature isn't there? You'd be surprised what people will do to get into their roles.
So - there's a place for it as a choreography club - but don't have it be a focus. Every club I've been in, people have had characters. But I think disattachment for the sake of presentation, performance and entertainment is more valuable than attachment and immersion.
Back to the question of "how much of it is thrown in" - the clubs I've been in have been more like performance troupes, so:
- you're on your own to create your character. There may be experienced club members in character creation who can help you if you don't know the universe. Otherwise, there's Wookieepedia.
- having a character is not REQUIRED if all you do is come to practices - but if you're going to do a performance, you're going to need something.
- if you're going to do a performance, the larger the venue, the more important it is to have a costume. Street clothes are fine if just showing off a fight, but otherwise at a comic convention or whatever, why else have the shiny sticks? I don't care what fandom you come from, but show respect to the Star Wars universe. It doesn't have to be perfect: compared to 501ster and Rebel Legion, you need to be even lighter weight, you need range of motion, you need speed, you need things they don't have to worry about. But at least have it be recognizable.
- as for the rest, clubs often offer: club website forum sections for posting character descriptions, back stories, fan fiction, and even roleplay. Sometimes character profiles on the website or Facebook. But none of it is required other than blade color, hilt style, gender, race, and light side/dark side/neither.
- acting demos and drills can help you get into character, think about your character, make changes to your character. So as a choreography club, it's a good thing to have in your utility belt. Try to do that once in a while. Talk about your characters, who they are, why you chose them, what they are like. Maybe you'll gain a member who has acting experience and can give you lessons. But remember what your focus is: if your club goal is to make kickass fights, don't overly focus on character development and immersion. If your club goal is live-action roleplay, then go ahead and make it happen without losing touch with reality or endangering others.
