The Guns Thread

[ThreadJack]

As a girl who's not incredibly huge, size really would matter to me, especially in summer. It becomes much harder to conceal things when you're wearing a lot tighter/less clothing because it's hot as Mustafar out there...

[scifidude79]

As a girl who's not incredibly huge, size really would matter to me, especially in summer. It becomes much harder to conceal things when you're wearing a lot tighter/less clothing because it's hot as Mustafar out there...

Indeed, that does make a difference. But the gun manufacturers actually do have you ladies in mind and have been coming out with a lot of options the past few years. A micro 9mm or small .380 would probably fit the bill. You can protect yourself and still not necessarily have everyone know you're carrying. Some people consider .380 to not be powerful enough for defense, but it's been getting more popular with the CC crowd the past few years. It's really just a 9mm with a shorter casing and less gunpowder. That cuts back on the recoil, which is important when you get into smaller guns. And there are some small .380 pistols that are great for women and even men of smaller stature to conceal. It's certainly better than carrying a 22.

I've actually thought of getting a smaller pistol myself. Even though I'm a pretty tall dude, it's still shorts and T-shirt weather. Trying to conceal a full size 9mm in that kind of clothing is a challenge. I had a nice look at the .380 case when I was at the gun shop a while back waiting for my background check that was taking forever.

[ThreadJack]

I'm not planning on carrying....well maybe some pepper spray for a run, but other than that I'm home, at work(not allowed), or at the rink(not really practical for skating lol). Also I don't feel the need anyway.

[scifidude79]

Honestly, it's not really a big thing for me either. I've carried my 9MM a few times, but it felt kinda odd to me. And it was mostly to stores in my area, which is petty low on violent crime. Mainly, I'm at home, at work and I go to stores and I go for bicycle rides. But, then I watch all of these people on YouTube who talk about carrying all the time. I'm sure they've never had to draw their carry gun, but they still carry them just in case. **shrugs**

And, ironically, when I go into a gun store with a range, my gun is supposed to be in my range bag, not in a holster on my waistband. That's the one place that you'd think they would encourage carrying.  (and most of the employees visibly carry)

[DarthRondoudou]

Honestly, it's not really a big thing for me either. I've carried my 9MM a few times, but it felt kinda odd to me. And it was mostly to stores in my area, which is petty low on violent crime. Mainly, I'm at home, at work and I go to stores and I go for bicycle rides. But, then I watch all of these people on YouTube who talk about carrying all the time. I'm sure they've never had to draw their carry gun, but they still carry them just in case. **shrugs**

And, ironically, when I go into a gun store with a range, my gun is supposed to be in my range bag, not in a holster on my waistband. That's the one place that you'd think they would encourage carrying.  (and most of the employees visibly carry)

That's the thing though. It's one thing to shoot in a range. It's another to draw when needed and react properly... Seen from Europe I do wonder how many of those "carriers" end up frelling up or getting injured/killed cause they thought they were ready when they were not...
Anyway, going to the range tomorrow!

[scifidude79]

You raise a valid point. All the training in the world can't prepare you for the real thing. A lot of people assume that because they train daily and get really proficient with a gun that they're necessarily going to be ready and come out on top in a gunfight. Americans are particularly cocky about these things. (I'm American, by the way) I heard a quote once from someone (may have been Wyatt Earp) that said surviving a gunfight came down to speed, luck and survival instincts. The truth is, the person who trains all the time may think they're ready, but an untrained person who is a bit faster and gets off a lucky shot can win the day. Most real world gun battles take place within 5-10 meters and last a few seconds. Most people who can at least aim and shoot a gun can hit a human sized target within 10 meters. I know some people who have CCW permits where I live, and they say that all you have to do to qualify is take an 8 hour course and put a certain number of rounds in a human sized target at 5 yards, which is slightly closer than 5 meters.

I did see a story from about a year ago where a young man in Indiana was a hero because he stopped a gunman in a shopping mall. The guy came in with some kind of high power high capacity rifle and started shooting. This dude was there with his girlfriend and was carrying some model of Glock. Once he made sure his girlfriend was behind cover, he opened up on the gunman at 30 yards. He fired 10 rounds, 6 of which hit. He shot and killed the gunman, ending his rampage mere seconds after its started. That was really good shooting under pressure at that distance.

Anyway, going to the range tomorrow!

Have fun. 

[DarthRondoudou]

You raise a valid point. All the training in the world can't prepare you for the real thing. A lot of people assume that because they train daily and get really proficient with a gun that they're necessarily going to be ready and come out on top in a gunfight. Americans are particularly cocky about these things. (I'm American, by the way) I heard a quote once from someone (may have been Wyatt Earp) that said surviving a gunfight came down to speed, luck and survival instincts. The truth is, the person who trains all the time may think they're ready, but an untrained person who is a bit faster and gets off a lucky shot can win the day. Most real world gun battles take place within 5-10 meters and last a few seconds. Most people who can at least aim and shoot a gun can hit a human sized target within 10 meters. I know some people who have CCW permits where I live, and they say that all you have to do to qualify is take an 8 hour course and put a certain number of rounds in a human sized target at 5 yards, which is slightly closer than 5 meters.

I did see a story from about a year ago where a young man in Indiana was a hero because he stopped a gunman in a shopping mall. The guy came in with some kind of high power high capacity rifle and started shooting. This dude was there with his girlfriend and was carrying some model of Glock. Once he made sure his girlfriend was behind cover, he opened up on the gunman at 30 yards. He fired 10 rounds, 6 of which hit. He shot and killed the gunman, ending his rampage mere seconds after its started. That was really good shooting under pressure at that distance.

Have fun. 

I did have a lot of fun and am quite pleased with my shooting.

That's the thing. We train. But most of us (especially true in France) do not train as much as special ops or people that NEED to know how to shoot under pressure and burn through a huge amount of ammo during the year. And still. those people get killed sometimes. Plus, there's a difference between carrying during your grocery shopping and the lunatic coming in knowing what he's gonna do. Lunatic has the upper hand. So if you're not the first one to be shot, you might get a chance, like in your story. But I recall an event in a church where the first guy that tried to intervene was killed... even though he was carrying. Sure, it's still better to be prepared. But we aren't super heroes. And I like that quote a lot. Cause it's really true. Speed, luck and instincts.

[scifidude79]

The thing about the incident in the shopping mall is that the gunman intentionally went into a place where they ask nicely on the front door for people not to carry. He was expecting to meet no resistance and just mow down a bunch of people. He also opened up on the food court, where nobody was on alert. Like you  said, luckily that guy who stopped him was in the right place and not on the food court, or he could have been one of the first people shot. Then his Glock would have done him no good.

But, incidents like that are why people carry. It's a crazy world and gun control laws do nothing to help. All they do is take guns away from good people because criminals aren't obeying the law anyway. I saw a video on YouTube yesterday where a fifteen year old in Atlanta was found with 10 guns in his possession, most of them had been modified to fire fully automatic. I don't know what he was planning, but the police were at his house looking for him anyway because he was wanted for armed robbery, when they found him with the guns. Obviously, he didn't purchase those guns legally, so no laws were stopping him from having them.

[DarthRondoudou]

The thing about the incident in the shopping mall is that the gunman intentionally went into a place where they ask nicely on the front door for people not to carry. He was expecting to meet no resistance and just mow down a bunch of people. He also opened up on the food court, where nobody was on alert. Like you  said, luckily that guy who stopped him was in the right place and not on the food court, or he could have been one of the first people shot. Then his Glock would have done him no good.

But, incidents like that are why people carry. It's a crazy world and gun control laws do nothing to help. All they do is take guns away from good people because criminals aren't obeying the law anyway. I saw a video on YouTube yesterday where a fifteen year old in Atlanta was found with 10 guns in his possession, most of them had been modified to fire fully automatic. I don't know what he was planning, but the police were at his house looking for him anyway because he was wanted for armed robbery, when they found him with the guns. Obviously, he didn't purchase those guns legally, so no laws were stopping him from having them.

While I agree it's possible to get guns unlawfully... it's not as easy in all countries. What baffles me is people that are ok with the idea of killing people for no reasons and try to put it in practise. People are the worst xD
Seems like I'm invited to the range today too. Might be fun.

[KaiserSosay]

  What baffles me is people that are ok with the idea of killing people for no reasons and try to put it in practise. People are the worst xD

Tell me you never served, without telling me.
 I gave you a point for this comment because I agree.
Stay sharp! One mind any weapon.

"It is a hard heart that kills"

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwjHhJdhY0I&amp;pp=ygUURm1qIGtpbGxlciBpbnN0aW5jdCA%3D" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwjHhJdhY0I&amp;pp=ygUURm1qIGtpbGxlciBpbnN0aW5jdCA%3D</a>

...And so was born the phrase, "Better to be judged by 12 then to be carried by 6."

[scifidude79]

While I agree it's possible to get guns unlawfully... it's not as easy in all countries. What baffles me is people that are ok with the idea of killing people for no reasons and try to put it in practise. People are the worst xD
Seems like I'm invited to the range today too. Might be fun.

Again, you raise a good point. It's certainly easy to get all manner of things illegally in the US, I don't know about other countries.

The idea of taking a life is appalling to me. I'm going to be honest, if I was in a situation with an active shooter and I had the chance, I'd go away from the gunfire as quickly as possible, not towards it. I'm not a hero and I'm looking to die. The only thing that would change that scenario would be if I knew a loved one was in the line of fire. I'd try to get them to safety too, but that still doesn't mean I'm taking on a gunman unless it's absolutely necessary.

Going back to that incident in the mall, the guy with the Glock was 30 yards away, but the guy with the rifle could have shot back and hurt or killed him. I don't know his skill level, but 30 yards with a rifle is nothing. Also, there could have been a second shooter. You never know what you'll find in a live situation.

[DarthRondoudou]

Tell me you never served, without telling me.
 I gave you a point for this comment because I agree.
Stay sharp! One mind any weapon.

"It is a hard heart that kills"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwjHhJdhY0I&pp=ygUURm1qIGtpbGxlciBpbnN0aW5jdCA%3D#

...And so was born the phrase, "Better to be judged by 12 then to be carried by 6."

I never did.

And I agree with that phrase. I'm talking about the people willing to do mass shootings. not LEOs, soldiers and such.

[DarthRondoudou]

Again, you raise a good point. It's certainly easy to get all manner of things illegally in the US, I don't know about other countries.

The idea of taking a life is appalling to me. I'm going to be honest, if I was in a situation with an active shooter and I had the chance, I'd go away from the gunfire as quickly as possible, not towards it. I'm not a hero and I'm looking to die. The only thing that would change that scenario would be if I knew a loved one was in the line of fire. I'd try to get them to safety too, but that still doesn't mean I'm taking on a gunman unless it's absolutely necessary.

Going back to that incident in the mall, the guy with the Glock was 30 yards away, but the guy with the rifle could have shot back and hurt or killed him. I don't know his skill level, but 30 yards with a rifle is nothing. Also, there could have been a second shooter. You never know what you'll find in a live situation.

True.

[KaiserSosay]

I never did.

And I agree with that phrase. I'm talking about the people willing to do mass shootings. not LEOs, soldiers and such.

 I understood what you meant.  Those that serve, unfortunately have to rub elbows with the psychos that like to kill for no reason.  I did serve and I was blessed to serve alongside side some of the best people I've ever met. I also had the misfortune of meeting some of the worst human beings to ever walk the earth.
 There is that saying,  "Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster."
I can understand how people become over enthusiastic about killing "bad guys". Especially when you have to see first hand what they get up to when unchecked.
 I am very thankful for the good people that were around me.  Their examples helped me walk a fine line.
 
 I also have to mention what scifidude79 said. The thought of taking a life appalls me too.  Or should I say an innocent  human life! That's where the Monster quotes comes in. They were monsters not people.  People don't do those things. Monsters do.

 The danger with c.c.w. is when everyone starts to look like a threat or in my words, a monster.

I don't carry.  If I did I would feel compelled to act because of my prior service.  I already have enough bad memories and guilt so no thanks. Without a means to defend myself the options are simple. Fight unarmed or flee and survive.  Easy choice for me. I know. Not very heroic.  Also not my job anymore.
 I guess what I'm trying to say is I feel safer without a gun.  Less chance of me becoming a bad guy unintentionally.
 Stories like this... I feel sorry for everyone involved.  What if the gun was not an option? How differently would this have ended. When you have it, you use it. When you don't have it, you use your feet instead.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2VF_tN3O_I&amp;pp=ygUXS25pZmUgcHJhbmsgdHVybnMgZmF0YWw%3D" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2VF_tN3O_I&amp;pp=ygUXS25pZmUgcHJhbmsgdHVybnMgZmF0YWw%3D</a>

[DarthRondoudou]

I understood what you meant.  Those that serve, unfortunately have to rub elbows with the psychos that like to kill for no reason.  I did serve and I was blessed to serve alongside side some of the best people I've ever met. I also had the misfortune of meeting some of the worst human beings to ever walk the earth.
 There is that saying,  "Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster."
I can understand how people become over enthusiastic about killing "bad guys". Especially when you have to see first hand what they get up to when unchecked.
 I am very thankful for the good people that were around me.  Their examples helped me walk a fine line.
 
 I also have to mention what scifidude79 said. The thought of taking a life appalls me too.  Or should I say an innocent  human life! That's where the Monster quotes comes in. They were monsters not people.  People don't do those things. Monsters do.

 The danger with c.c.w. is when everyone starts to look like a threat or in my words, a monster.

I don't carry.  If I did I would feel compelled to act because of my prior service.  I already have enough bad memories and guilt so no thanks. Without a means to defend myself the options are simple. Fight unarmed or flee and survive.  Easy choice for me. I know. Not very heroic.  Also not my job anymore.
 I guess what I'm trying to say is I feel safer without a gun.  Less chance of me becoming a bad guy unintentionally.
 Stories like this... I feel sorry for everyone involved.  What if the gun was not an option? How differently would this have ended. When you have it, you use it. When you don't have it, you use your feet instead.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2VF_tN3O_I&pp=ygUXS25pZmUgcHJhbmsgdHVybnMgZmF0YWw%3D#

That's wisdom

carrying can bring this kind of situation, or just impeding actual leos intervention, make them lose time because they have to identify threats, friends or foes and secure weapons etc.
From the outside, it's kinda fascinating to see what's going on with guns in your country. not gonna lie.