Whatchya Listening to or Watching?

[TheHobbitofDune]

I think it's more about comparing apples to oranges.  Sure, a screamer probably couldn't top an opera singer in raw volume, but I doubt an opera singer could scream without destroying their voice either.

Anyhow, since I still can't ruttin see Youtube at work, I'm listening to:

Strongbad - The System is Down!!

Harsh vocalists (screamers) can't even top regular singers, for the most part. Depending on the technique used, they are generally quite quiet. The power doesn't come from "cranking up the volume", it comes from within the vocalist. If they want more volume, they use mics. Though, of course, there are guys like Tim Lambesis who has a really mean false chord scream that can get fairly loud.

This is why I said modern singer. I don't see screaming into a mic as real singing. If it were, children would be Grammy Winners.

That's because it isn't singing. It's yelling onto pitch, as Melissa Cross once brilliantly put it. Screaming isn't really the proper term; harsh vocals is. Also, people have been doing harsh vocals for as long as anyone can remember. Pretty much back to the time of cavemen, who used grunting and yelling to get their point across. Another popular example is Chris Cornell, or any singer in any genre who adds even a bit of grit to their voice.

Also, many bands with harsh vocalists have been Grammy Winners, so....

Harsh vocals is still an art form. It takes years of practice to master it, and even then, nobody can come close to actual perfection. Disregarding a vocalist for using harsh vocals is just blatant ignorance.

[Oramac]

Harsh vocalists (screamers) can't even top regular singers, for the most part. Depending on the technique used, they are generally quite quiet. The power doesn't come from "cranking up the volume", it comes from within the vocalist. If they want more volume, they use mics. Though, of course, there are guys like Tim Lambesis who has a really mean false chord scream that can get fairly loud.

That's because it isn't singing. It's yelling onto pitch, as Melissa Cross once brilliantly put it. Screaming isn't really the proper term; harsh vocals is. Also, people have been doing harsh vocals for as long as anyone can remember. Pretty much back to the time of cavemen, who used grunting and yelling to get their point across. Another popular example is Chris Cornell, or any singer in any genre who adds even a bit of grit to their voice.

Also, many bands with harsh vocalists have been Grammy Winners, so....

Harsh vocals is still an art form. It takes years of practice to master it, and even then, nobody can come close to actual perfection. Disregarding a vocalist for using harsh vocals is just blatant ignorance.

Couldn't have said it better myself.  Literally, I could not have said it even half that good.  lol. 

[TheHobbitofDune]

Couldn't have said it better myself.  Literally, I could not have said it even half that good.  lol.  

Thanks Though I did make one glaring mistake (sorry, I woke up about two hours ago). There are different levels to harsh vocals. You've got the guys who add a bit of grit, and then you've got the guys who go all-out. For the guys who add a bit of grit, they can still sing with it, depending on how much grit is applied. Ultimately, though, they are still pretty limited to what they can do because of the grit. It's like having someone throw a heavy rug on top of you, and you can only struggle to get it off, however you still have that bit of wiggle room with which to struggle.

Examples of guys who use just a bit of grit: Chris Cornell, Benjamin Burnley (when he isn't growling or doing straight clean vocals), Adam Gontier, etc.

Um, I think that's it.

BYE.

[Jev Moldara]

Harsh vocalists (screamers) can't even top regular singers, for the most part. Depending on the technique used, they are generally quite quiet. The power doesn't come from "cranking up the volume", it comes from within the vocalist. If they want more volume, they use mics. Though, of course, there are guys like Tim Lambesis who has a really mean false chord scream that can get fairly loud.

That's because it isn't singing. It's yelling onto pitch, as Melissa Cross once brilliantly put it. Screaming isn't really the proper term; harsh vocals is. Also, people have been doing harsh vocals for as long as anyone can remember. Pretty much back to the time of cavemen, who used grunting and yelling to get their point across. Another popular example is Chris Cornell, or any singer in any genre who adds even a bit of grit to their voice.

Also, many bands with harsh vocalists have been Grammy Winners, so....

Harsh vocals is still an art form. It takes years of practice to master it, and even then, nobody can come close to actual perfection. Disregarding a vocalist for using harsh vocals is just blatant ignorance.

Again, I said screaming. Not harsh vocals. Screaming. There is a difference, as you pointed out. I do not disregard harsh vocalists. I disregard screamers. You can understand harsh vocals. You cannot understand screamers.

[TheHobbitofDune]

Again, I said screaming. Not harsh vocals. Screaming. There is a difference, as you pointed out. I do not disregard harsh vocalists. I disregard screamers. You can understand harsh vocals. You cannot understand screamers.

No, it's still all the same thing, but there are just different levels to it. Still, just because you can't understand it doesn't mean it is bad. It still requires the mastery of the same basic techniques found in singing, as well as a bit of extra input. Like I said before, music isn't one-dimensional.

Anyway, I got to get to class.

Bye.

[Oramac]

Again, I said screaming. Not harsh vocals. Screaming. There is a difference, as you pointed out. I do not disregard harsh vocalists. I disregard screamers. You can understand harsh vocals. You cannot understand screamers.

So listener comprehension determines whether the vocalist is ok or not?  Seems counter-intuitive.

For that, I give you Maria Brink.  I'm at work, so I can't give you links, but look up 2 songs: "Into The Light" and "Daddy's Falling Angel".  She performed both, and I think you'll be hard pressed to say she can't sing.

I could give other examples, but the point is, lack of comprehension on our part does not constitute lack of talent on theirs.  

[Luna]

Again, I said screaming. Not harsh vocals. Screaming. There is a difference, as you pointed out. I do not disregard harsh vocalists. I disregard screamers. You can understand harsh vocals. You cannot understand screamers.

Lulz. Most people couldn't understand opera if their lives depended on it.

[Jev Moldara]

So listener comprehension determines whether the vocalist is ok or not?  Seems counter-intuitive.

Not really, when you consider that lyrics are meant to be heard and understood...

[Jev Moldara]

Lulz. Most people couldn't understand opera if their lives depended on it.

With opera, you can at least tell that there are words. With screaming, the vocalizations blow past the mic gain, making the lyrics unable to be distinguished from white noise.

[Master Rel]

As an analogy...vocal appreciation and food flavors.

Trying to convince someone that a given cuisine or even a particular flavor is good or great can be a challenge if the person does not appreciate the baseline value in question.

This is for Jev...he loves hot food, meaning hot peppers.  If he recommends a soup or stew recipe the chances are it will be heavily spiced with hot peppers.  Telling someone that the hot element is best or at least really good when that person does not like hot food is like climbing a rope without using your arms; difficult.

The variety of vocals that use a method or application that makes the words hard to make out does offer a challenge to some listeners...just like adding hot peppers makes it hard to appreciate any other flavors for some people.

I appreciate that there are so many flavors of food and options for music...even if I do not like all of them...more options is better 

[Luna]

With opera, you can at least tell that there are words. With screaming, the vocalizations blow past the mic gain, making the lyrics unable to be distinguished from white noise.

I can easily tell if words are being said... if I'm somehow superhuman for being able to do so, then awesome

As an analogy...vocal appreciation and food flavors.

Trying to convince someone that a given cuisine or even a particular flavor is good or great can be a challenge if the person does not appreciate the baseline value in question.

This is for Jev...he loves hot food, meaning hot peppers.  If he recommends a soup or stew recipe the chances are it will be heavily spiced with hot peppers.  Telling someone that the hot element is best or at least really good when that person does not like hot food is like climbing a rope without using your arms; difficult.

The variety of vocals that use a method or application that makes the words hard to make out does offer a challenge to some listeners...just like adding hot peppers makes it hard to appreciate any other flavors for some people.

I appreciate that there are so many flavors of food and options for music...even if I do not like all of them...more options is better 

Precisely. I just couldn't resist picking at the error in reasoning

[Ricos]

Star Wars ANH directors cut! lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ezeYJUz-84&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[TheHobbitofDune]

With opera, you can at least tell that there are words. With screaming, the vocalizations blow past the mic gain, making the lyrics unable to be distinguished from white noise.

Not true... at all.

So listener comprehension determines whether the vocalist is ok or not?  Seems counter-intuitive.

For that, I give you Maria Brink.  I'm at work, so I can't give you links, but look up 2 songs: "Into The Light" and "Daddy's Falling Angel".  She performed both, and I think you'll be hard pressed to say she can't sing.

I could give other examples, but the point is, lack of comprehension on our part does not constitute lack of talent on theirs. 

Exactly.

Also, I was planning on asking you for some In This Moment songs when I came back, but apparently I don't need to

[Oramac]

Also, I was planning on asking you for some In This Moment songs when I came back, but apparently I don't need to

You're welcome. 

Interesting anecdote, Maria has been on record saying she's never had a day of voice lessons in her life. 

[TheHobbitofDune]

You're welcome. 

Interesting anecdote, Maria has been on record saying she's never had a day of voice lessons in her life. 

That is interesting.

Well, I can say that I finally listened to In This Moment today. They are a good band. Maria sounds like a female version of Jesse Leach. Same raw passion and same raw vocals, and even the clean vocals follow similar melodies.