Random Star Wars Thoughts

[James Casey]

That's interesting, chicago. I've never done that in real life - been on a few cadet training missions, but there was nothing especially different about the other sides uniforms, of course - but I have real problems playing bad guys in video games. I just empathise with the 'good' NPCs too much. I have the same problems when reading novels about 'bad' guys - I don't find bad or criminal behaviour seductive, even if it leads to great rewards.

The only time I can remember coming close to supporting the bad guy was watching Scarface - Tony Montana was a realistic and somewhat sympathetic protagonist, but the film never really showed the effects his cocaine was having on users other than Tony himself. Had it done so, it would have been harder for me to have much interest in his ultimate fate.

I wonder if I'd feel the same as you if placed in the position you were in.

[Darth Kitsune]

That's interesting, chicago. I've never done that in real life - been on a few cadet training missions, but there was nothing especially different about the other sides uniforms, of course - but I have real problems playing bad guys in video games. I just empathise with the 'good' NPCs too much. I have the same problems when reading novels about 'bad' guys - I don't find bad or criminal behaviour seductive, even if it leads to great rewards.

The only time I can remember coming close to supporting the bad guy was watching Scarface - Tony Montana was a realistic and somewhat sympathetic protagonist, but the film never really showed the effects his cocaine was having on users other than Tony himself. Had it done so, it would have been harder for me to have much interest in his ultimate fate.

I wonder if I'd feel the same as you if placed in the position you were in.

It's not really the bad or criminal behavior that seduces. It's more of the story behind the villain, behind the "Bad Guy". It's their character, the personality, the motivation. If you are like me, there is both the good and the bad within the human, within the psych. But it's more to that. If you notice, the most popular villians, the most popular "Bad Guys"...are the ones with the most tragic stories, or the most intricate psyches. Sure some of them are bad, just to be bad. But others, others have deep stories behind them. The question that appeals to us isn't about them committing what is, to our social standards, morally wrong or violating the law set before us...but WHY are they doing it? What motivates them to commit some actions. Some are heartbroken. Some are doing wrong to present a better justice. Some are doing it to teach lessons that we cannot teach others every day. It is that part that appeals to the fans of the villain. Not the action, but the meaning behind the action. The story.

For me, it's easy to play a sith or dark jedi for instance. While there is the power behind it, there is more to it than that. There is the meaning to put emotion behind my actions and character. There is the conflict of "right" vs. "wrong". While there is the capability if writing a backstory behind a Jedi figure, I could get more intricate with a Dark Sided persona.

This brings me to why I love the Extended Universe. While the original films/Lucas' works were very black and white....the EU provided and continues to provide a broader spectrum. Some people like the straight, "simplistic" path of the Black/White Star Wars perspective. But others, such as myself, love the complex levels of the EU. It gave us an opportunity to insert ourselves, our works, our characters into a Universe that appeals to us. It allows us to forge paths that we would take, or might take, in a Galaxy long ago, far far away. In a sense, it is more real to us, not in the sense of it being a Sci-Fi ideology but in the sense that it allows us to be just as complex in the EU as we are in Real Life. In the real world, there is no black nor white. There is an entire spectrum that goes forth within each and every individual. It gives us a "real" experience.


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[Deceptae]

Point to Kitsune!
Lots of people just like badguys because they are immature and uncivilised, this gives all badguy sympathizers a bad image. But the above is exactly why people started liking villans in the first place. Also the comment about a more real experience hit pretty close to home.

[Master Rel]

In the end, IMO, based upon a life full of ups and downs, highs and lows...it is much easier to be bad.

It is much easier to blame having a hard life, being sad, or being heartbroken.

It is much easier to just say to hell with it and do what you want instead of what you should.

It is easier to relate to those who do what they want instead of those doing what needs to be done, should be done, etc.

And it is far more a response I believe to video games leaving the option to play evil or bad guys, this makes it seem ok and just the same as playing a good guy.

All that was mentioned about having heartache, hard life, etc. this happens and molds the good guys too...they just seem to rise above it instead of letting it drag them down.

 

[Darth Kitsune]

In the end, IMO, based upon a life full of ups and downs, highs and lows...it is much easier to be bad.

It is much easier to blame having a hard life, being sad, or being heartbroken.

It is much easier to just say to hell with it and do what you want instead of what you should.

It is easier to relate to those who do what they want instead of those doing what needs to be done, should be done, etc.

And it is far more a response I believe to video games leaving the option to play evil or bad guys, this makes it seem ok and just the same as playing a good guy.

All that was mentioned about having heartache, hard life, etc. this happens and molds the good guys too...they just seem to rise above it instead of letting it drag them down.

 

That's not what I meant by my statement about those things such as heartbreak and downfalls. I realize that, but being the villain allows an individual to experience and play with the darker side of these things. Again, it's about the story. In the end, it is the same as playing a good guy, but the experience and outcomes are different. Different people handle different situations..well..differently! It is no easier making a "villainous" choice than it is a "just" choice, as they both draw on moral and cultural values.

As a culture we are endowed to view the good guys as those that "Rise above the rest". We culturally accept bad guys as the "Dastardly ne'er do wells that want nothing but destruction" and who are "emotionally unstable". But in the end, it falls into the psychology of the character. These were ideals presented to us in media, in books and literature; in film and digital mediums as well. While it is nice to have a black or white definition of something...it often causes the undermining of what it means to truly be human, to truly indulge in the psychology of the character.

A villain to some is a hero. A hero to some is a villain. In the end, they are only human by our standards. Leaving a book unwritten, while entertaining, leads to the misconception of the psychology of the character or persona. It leaves blank spaces, thus making them inhuman. Of course, to each their own, but in the sense of practicality nothing is simply a two-sided coin.

[Master Rel]

I am with you brother...like what you like!

There is room in our collective hobby for everyone to find a place, somewhere.

[chicago.jedi]

It allows us to forge paths that we would take, or might take, in a Galaxy long ago, far far away.

So, are you saying that if you were in the Star wars universe, you would do the things the Sith do? Why? And for that matter, how does it help your point that it is ok to favor them?

[Darth Kitsune]

So, are you saying that if you were in the Star wars universe, you would do the things the Sith do? Why? And for that matter, how does it help your point that it is ok to favor them?

It depends on the situation. My Sith character is a fictional, nonexistent being in the realm of my imagination. In a situation like that, there are many possibilities that I cannot describe simply because I am not experiencing any of them at this moment. I would have to be able to see myself growing up as a force-sensitive entity in the Star Wars Universe, which is impossible since I am not of that universe. That being said, it would also depend on my experiences, and my psychology in that universe as well. In this world, I am a generally rational but also very emotional person, so I haven't a clue. If I followed any of the paths I did in this life in the Star Wars Universe, I'd probably come out as some sort of Dark or Grey Jedi, simply because of my own viewpoints and experiences.

But to answer that, it is pretty much impossible unless I could exist and experience two separate universes (one of which being a fictional idea) at the same time. I cannot answer, because I do not know. I am not in that Universe, now am I?

[chicago.jedi]

It depends on the situation. My Sith character is a fictional, nonexistent being in the realm of my imagination. In a situation like that, there are many possibilities that I cannot describe simply because I am not experiencing any of them at this moment. I would have to be able to see myself growing up as a force-sensitive entity in the Star Wars Universe, which is impossible since I am not of that universe. That being said, it would also depend on my experiences, and my psychology in that universe as well. In this world, I am a generally rational but also very emotional person, so I haven't a clue. If I followed any of the paths I did in this life in the Star Wars Universe, I'd probably come out as some sort of Dark or Grey Jedi, simply because of my own viewpoints and experiences.

But to answer that, it is pretty much impossible unless I could exist and experience two separate universes (one of which being a fictional idea) at the same time. I cannot answer, because I do not know. I am not in that Universe, now am I?

Let's say you were teleported there right now, with all of your experiences of this world in mind and having full knowledge of the Star Wars universe already. Would you sill go along with the Sith, knowing what they are all about?

Just curious.

[Darth Kitsune]

I am not a force sensitive, so they would probably kill me.

Say that I was, however. I would, as stated, probably turn out to be a Dark Jedi or Grey Jedi, or perhaps something similar to Revan in a sense. I can't answer that because it's all experience based. If you were to take me now, the darker parts of my mind would say, "Psssh...of course!" There is a lot of hate inside of me, a lot of pent of anger and frustration. Emotions I haven't been able to let out in the real world. I go through abuse in my family every day, and what I wouldn't GIVE to you know. Take care of that. But my rationality says I cannot, because I'm not a stupid individual. But I do like the idea of having power. Of control. Of being a dominate, dark force. Which is why I have a very high self control practice in my life, because I don't even trust myself.

But did I ever say I supported the Sith? I did not. I simply play my characters as part of one. There is a difference in between reality, and fiction. But in the end, it still intrigues the mind. Some of us like that dark story, simply out of what it is. That doesn't mean we support it. It just interests us.

[chicago.jedi]

I am not a force sensitive, so they would probably kill me.

Say that I was, however. I would, as stated, probably turn out to be a Dark Jedi or Grey Jedi, or perhaps something similar to Revan in a sense. I can't answer that because it's all experience based. If you were to take me now, the darker parts of my mind would say, "Psssh...of course!" There is a lot of hate inside of me, a lot of pent of anger and frustration. Emotions I haven't been able to let out in the real world. I go through abuse in my family every day, and what I wouldn't GIVE to you know. Take care of that. But my rationality says I cannot, because I'm not a stupid individual. But I do like the idea of having power. Of control. Of being a dominate, dark force. Which is why I have a very high self control practice in my life, because I don't even trust myself.

But did I ever say I supported the Sith? I did not. I simply play my characters as part of one. There is a difference in between reality, and fiction. But in the end, it still intrigues the mind. Some of us like that dark story, simply out of what it is. That doesn't mean we support it. It just interests us.

I do not know how to continue this conversation without it becoming too personal.

I am sorry for whatever you are dealing with in this world.

I deal with my own struggles, as does everyone else.

We all deal with things in different ways.

Thank you for your honesty.

[Darth Kitsune]

It's not a problem at all. I'm just wondering why it went from Fiction to Reality. I was simply talking about why the villain intrigues the individual as much as a hero does. XD


 

[chicago.jedi]

It's not a problem at all. I'm just wondering why it went from Fiction to Reality. I was simply talking about why the villain intrigues the individual as much as a hero does. XD


 

I think it went that way because that was the theme of my post a page or two back...."when does make believe become too real"... and that is where my mind has been.

I guess we just got lost in the ebbs and flows of the forum.

[Darth Kitsune]

Oh that would make sense. I had forgotten about that post, but I did read it. That is a very intriguing topic too, because it does relate to those of us that enjoy the roles and stories of the villain.

Why?

Because we're also sane people! (For the most part. This is an ideal statement XD)

That is one of the reasons I can enjoy making a villain character or persona for something. Because it isn't real. I can make them into the perfect villain if I wanted to, or a hearty, honorable mastermind (which is where I usually fall into when I play the villain) without having the struggle of moral value or issues with my real self. As a rational person, I am capable of distinguishing my character from my real life self. Simply an actor playing a part in the musical, so to say. Though, I will say it is very fun to get in character when gussied up in my gear and fool around with my friends while we are in costume. =P

[Kham-Ryn Kurios]