Random Star Wars Thoughts

[Darth Logos]

And yet, that's what the back story of it was, in what is now "Legends". 

"To design the starfighter, Dodonna turned to Walex Blissex, famed ex-Kuat Systems Engineering engineer. Blissex brought valuable experience from work on the Clone Wars-era Delta-7 Aetherspite-class light interceptor and Alpha-3 interceptors. The pair based initial designs on the R-22 Spearhead, already nicknamed by pilots as "A-wings" per the -wing naming convention for other Rebel craft, of which two had fought at Yavin. They formed Alliance Underground Engineering,[15] and worked with pilot Jake Farrell[18] in improving a Tammuz-an design.[15] It was additionally based off the Delta-7.[1]

Dodonna and Blissex presented a proposal to Chief of State Mon Mothma[source?] for official support. It was ill-timed. The victory at Yavin incited open rebellion on thousands of worlds, resulting in widespread Imperial suppression. The Alliance was scattered, and had insufficient funds for the proposed A-wing program. Nevertheless, Dodonna's fame from his role at Yavin made a denial difficult, and Mothma approved with reduced funding.


The reduced budget forced Dodonna and Blissex to substantially modify the original design. Blissex redrafted to use components readily available from Ordnance and Supply Command, pushing each beyond factory specifications.

The earliest A-wings were hand-assembled at Alliance facilities like Cardooine and Chardaan Shipyards. This resulted in interesting modifications; some fighters incorporated actual wood furnishings for the cockpit interior, such as the one that Rogue Squadron pilot Tycho Celchu flew during the Battle of Endor.[8] In 0 ABY, the Soaring Dactillionss were assigned the prototypes to fly at the Cardooine Rebel base. After a week, they came under attack by the Empire, and the Dactillions flew the fighter in battle. Although they proved that the starfighter had superb qualities, only two of the pilots survived.[20] "


Not built completely from scratch, they used a lot of off-the-shelf components (much like the F-117's development), and took inspiration from a bunch of different, older ships, but before the new canon, A-wings were designed and built by the Rebel Alliance, not one of the established manufacturers.


All that said, I do find the new canon origins of the A-Wing more credible and satisfactory, although I'm not thrilled that (if the write up in wookiepedia is accurate) they've changed the specs to make it so the Rebel A-Wings have had their shields removed, when previously the A-Wings in the RA fleet did have shielding.

It just doesn't make sense, to me, that an organization that is trying to remain off the radar would set up shop to start producing fighters. I'm fairly certain that a half-diligent Imp snoop could pick up the scent of supply chains, and before you know it headlines on the Holo read: Imperial planetary bombardment wipes major corporation off the map.

But then, all of my reading of the EU has been focused on aspects of the Force, and not technological development.

[Darth Justicar]

Logos, somehow the First Order sourced stuff from known shipyards during their buildup and the idiot New Republic didn't stop them.  These were freaking STAR DESTROYERS.  Which spoke to some real stupidity on their part.

Fighters might be a bit easier to pull off in the Empire...IF the right people are susceptible to bribery or can be convinced somehow to write off a certain percentage of "acceptable losses" to piracy.

[ithekro]

The old EU always had the Rebel Alliance building Starfighters on remote safeworlds, or on large planets that were openly in rebellion (Mon Cala), though Mon Cala was also building or modifying capital ships for the Alliance Navy.

The Galaxy is a big place. There a lots of uncharted settlements, and if you can hide the construction of a Death Star for over a decade, you can hide a Starfighter factory on some distant planet.  I would think the Alliance would have found some relative low tech world that wasn't all that interesting to the Empire and either uplifted one of the local nation-states to build weapons for the Alliance.  Think of 1940s Earth with an aircraft industry producing X-wings.

[Darth Justicar]

That raises a question...we know obviously the Empire doesn't care, but did the Republic ever have anything like a Prime Directive or did they just visit or interfere away?

[ithekro]

Considering how a lot of the more common species we see seems to be low tech and probably never developed their own faster than light drives, I would think the Republic does not have a Prime Directive like rule.  I doubt the Gungans made their own interstellar craft before the humans colonies the surface of Naboo.    Considering hyperdrives are 25,000 or more years old and as far as I can tell we don't see any other types of FTL drive in Star Wars, I don't think anyone their cares anymore about the natural development of a species.

Also slavery is still a thing outside the Republic (and later inside the Empire)

[Darth Logos]

Logos, somehow the First Order sourced stuff from known shipyards during their buildup and the idiot New Republic didn't stop them.  These were freaking STAR DESTROYERS.  Which spoke to some real stupidity on their part.

Fighters might be a bit easier to pull off in the Empire...IF the right people are susceptible to bribery or can be convinced somehow to write off a certain percentage of "acceptable losses" to piracy.

Yeah, but I'm under the impression that the FO has a lot more support from Imp sympathizers. They are a known political threat yet the Republic won't actively engage and subdue them? That's just plain stupidity. (NTM bad story telling.) It would be like the US knowing full well that China is moving to launch a full nuclear strike, but we have to ask France to fight that battle because........ political correctness?

I did think that, but in a climate such as the Empire, knowledge is a liability. It is the way of the Sith. (At least it used to be.) If someone had proof that the Sith still existed, they were....ahem...dealt with. Bane made sure that the Sith only existed in rumor and legend. And always make sure you have the upper hand. If you bribe someone, serve it up with a side of blackmail. Make the arrangement profitable, but ill-advised to be reneged. I don't think the Rebels do much dealing in this fashion.

The old EU always had the Rebel Alliance building Starfighters on remote safeworlds, or on large planets that were openly in rebellion (Mon Cala), though Mon Cala was also building or modifying capital ships for the Alliance Navy.

Not sure how "open" they were in their opposition. Seeing as how the Emperor ruled through fear and terror tactics, it wouldn't take much to imagine what happens to a planet that tries to buck the system. We all remember what happened to Alderaan because their senator had a big mouth.

The Galaxy is a big place. There a lots of uncharted settlements, and if you can hide the construction of a Death Star for over a decade, you can hide a Starfighter factory on some distant planet.  I would think the Alliance would have found some relative low tech world that wasn't all that interesting to the Empire and either uplifted one of the local nation-states to build weapons for the Alliance.  Think of 1940s Earth with an aircraft industry producing X-wings.

That is true, but......the Empire was in control. Who are you going to tattle on when a few ships go missing for flying in a restricted area? Despite the idiots that donned the grey/black uniforms, Sidious was no fool. He knew how to make the galaxy dance when he wanted it to, and he knew how to keep tabs on everything.
Unless you moved entire industries to that world, you would eventually have to import resources, and that could be traced.

[ithekro]

I think the Alliance was always attempting to have their industrial worlds be self contained within a single system.  The only things going in and out would be pilots to pickup the finished products to be distributed elsewhere.

[Darth Logos]

I think the Alliance was always attempting to have their industrial worlds be self contained within a single system.  The only things going in and out would be pilots to pickup the finished products to be distributed elsewhere.

It would make pretty good sense to have the industry contained within a star system rather than on just a single world, but there would still be Imperial checks to monitor interplanetary travel and transport.

[Darth Justicar]

Yeah, but I'm under the impression that the FO has a lot more support from Imp sympathizers. They are a known political threat yet the Republic won't actively engage and subdue them? That's just plain stupidity. (NTM bad story telling.) It would be like the US knowing full well that China is moving to launch a full nuclear strike, but we have to ask France to fight that battle because........ political correctness?

Stand by for PM this evening.

[Darth Logos]

Stand by for PM this evening.

I still owe you one.

[ithekro]

It would make pretty good sense to have the industry contained within a star system rather than on just a single world, but there would still be Imperial checks to monitor interplanetary travel and transport.

Have to find the system first.  The Empire can't be everywhere.  Even with probe droids.   There is also still about a quarter to third of a galaxy (perhaps more) that is outside the Empire's usual reach.   Unexplored space.  The Alliance needs only a few systems beyond the Empire's reach that are mildly industrial and they can put out a few squadrons of fighters here and there, depending on the just how much can be taught to the natives.

And there are always risks.  The rebels know that.  They can be as careful as they can and still be found by a random probe droid or Imperial exploration vessel.

[Darth Logos]

Have to find the system first.  The Empire can't be everywhere.  Even with probe droids.   There is also still about a quarter to third of a galaxy (perhaps more) that is outside the Empire's usual reach.   Unexplored space.  The Alliance needs only a few systems beyond the Empire's reach that are mildly industrial and they can put out a few squadrons of fighters here and there, depending on the just how much can be taught to the natives.

And there are always risks.  The rebels know that.  They can be as careful as they can and still be found by a random probe droid or Imperial exploration vessel.

I will admit. Y'all put up a good argument. I will concede that the more I think about it, the more likely a scenario it becomes.

But the Empire pretty much occupies what was once the Republic, which does represent a considerable amount of territory. Keeping an underground shipyard under wraps would be much easier if it were literally underground.


Jumping threads (due to lessened activity) from Place Your Bets...

I revisited the question of: Who is Snoke? And I started thinking along the lines of the OC. What if Snoke was one of the clones of Palpatine? Jacked up, but a clone none the less. From what I've learned of events post ROTJ, Palpatine had a series of clones in the works. My favorite was the one of Luke, who MJ killed thinking it was the OG, and then she falls in love with her target. Awesome.

[Darth Justicar]

Three theories here...

I know a lot of people hate the Plagueis theory, but I still consider that a reasonable possibility--given that Plagueis likely had the ability to cheat death even if his body seemed to die, and that after Sidious failed, he might have decided to give the whole galaxy conquest thing a try.  I do think the Snoke and Plagueis themes bear a noteworthy similarity in their respective scores.  And if Kylo ends up finishing Plagueis, it'll put a heck of an ironic twist on the idea of finishing what his grandfather started.

Another possibility would be an Inquisitor from Rebels, which would also be interesting because it would have to mean that Kylo Ren is actually WAY more powerful than his master and that a large amount of the manipulation was psychological.  A paper tiger, in a lot of ways.  And if Ren rose up, he could literally snap this poser in half AND--unlike Vader--live to tell about it.  The more I think of it, this appeals equally well to me as the Plagueis angle.  Unfortunately I think that, while a very credible theory, if it happens, there is going to be a big backlash because...well...it's Rebels we're talking about here.  And additionally, some people won't see the tragedy in the idea of Kylo having been enslaved by someone so much less powerful than him--enslaved only because he was convinced it was too late for him somehow.

And then there's one from the old EU's department of eldritch horrors, if they reached back to it--but if it IS this character, the degree of SCREWED that Kylo Ren is, cannot be overstated.   That would be if Snoke is Vitiate/Valkorion.  This is the guy that did unspeakable things to Revan and who cheated death so many times it's insane, and who built two different, massive empires, and it wouldn't be out of the question for me for him to think maybe the third time is the charm.

[Darth Logos]

Three theories here...

I know a lot of people hate the Plagueis theory, but I still consider that a reasonable possibility--given that Plagueis likely had the ability to cheat death even if his body seemed to die, and that after Sidious failed, he might have decided to give the whole galaxy conquest thing a try.  I do think the Snoke and Plagueis themes bear a noteworthy similarity in their respective scores.  And if Kylo ends up finishing Plagueis, it'll put a heck of an ironic twist on the idea of finishing what his grandfather started.

UGH! But I did like the way you finished it.

Another possibility would be an Inquisitor from Rebels, which would also be interesting because it would have to mean that Kylo Ren is actually WAY more powerful than his master and that a large amount of the manipulation was psychological.  A paper tiger, in a lot of ways.  And if Ren rose up, he could literally snap this poser in half AND--unlike Vader--live to tell about it.  The more I think of it, this appeals equally well to me as the Plagueis angle.  Unfortunately I think that, while a very credible theory, if it happens, there is going to be a big backlash because...well...it's Rebels we're talking about here.  And additionally, some people won't see the tragedy in the idea of Kylo having been enslaved by someone so much less powerful than him--enslaved only because he was convinced it was too late for him somehow.

More UGH! Back again finished nicely. However, look at the relationship between Sidious and Vader. I've been told, as well as read, that Sidious purposefully kept training from Vader, as well as had inferior parts installed because Vader was in fact more powerful. Without full use of the Dark Side at his command, Vader was the whipped dog that he portrayed. Could you imagine Vader, had the battle of Mustafar gone the other way? He'd have unstoppable. He'd have made Vitiate look like a wuss.

And then there's one from the old EU's department of eldritch horrors, if they reached back to it--but if it IS this character, the degree of SCREWED that Kylo Ren is, cannot be overstated.   That would be if Snoke is Vitiate/Valkorion.  This is the guy that did unspeakable things to Revan and who cheated death so many times it's insane, and who built two different, massive empires, and it wouldn't be out of the question for me for him to think maybe the third time is the charm.

They seriously went with this arc? I know Vitiate eventually grew so powerful that he was no longer recognizable as a Sith, but then acquires the visage of a human? Seems weak. Plus, after reading Revan, it was my understanding that his power came from the Empire-wide spread fear of him. When the Sith Empire fell, I believe that his power would have waned as the Empire broke up. No fear = no power = no immortality. Although, by that point, he may have figure out a way to barely hang on. A Voldemort-esque style existence. But two millennia of that seems like a stretch as well.

[Darth Justicar]

What can I say, I can see something poetic, and "full circle" in the Plagueis theory.  And in a heck of a Star Wars heresy, it could be made perfect in my view by permanently establishing something new in place of both the Jedi and Sith Orders...which would ALSO finally finish the prophecy about Anakin (and his line).

As far as the Inquisitor theory, it's major psychological stuff--translating it to the big screen could prove challenging and spawn memes if not done right.  But I could see the idea of a highly charismatic personality preying on Kylo all the way back to his early childhood, like a predator, and essentially doing all of his work through psychological manipulation--all the while knowing that if Kylo's conscience ever reasserts itself, he is SOL in a big way and so he had better do all he can to keep Kylo cowed and dominated so he won't dare.

In SWTOR, Vitiate (or Valkorion, as I "know" him best) did indeed find such a way to hang on after death, and tried to start another Empire he saw as being "beyond" notions of the Light and Dark sides.  Which to me does hold possible echoes of Snoke's philosophy, if you look at the scenes that were cut from TFA (about why he has chosen to use Kylo).

All three of these theories have writing angles I could see being promising...though I actually feel like if I were doing it, I could get the most mileage out of the first two.