Learning the movements from Star Wars media?

[Saso Is-kor]

So with my first saber hopefully arriving soon I've been practicing with my PVC pipe sabers but also pouring over Star Wars media such as movies, cartoons, and even video games. I'll get right to the point, is it quite common in addition to learning various spins/moves/forms from Youtube video tutorials (the "spin zone" on here is great) to also delve into the specific moves showcased in various duels spread across all the media? I'll use The Force Unleashed 2 as my prime example. After going back and playing the game I got rather enamored by the Jar'Kai reverse grip style used by Starkiller and so as I mowed down stormtroopers for the billionth time in the game I thought "those spin moves are pretty slick, maybe I could learn them?" Breaking down the game footage in slow-mo is a bit different than going over frame by frame on a movie duel so touching back on my original question. Is this something that some of you out there have accomplished or even tried to do?

     

[Karmack]

I haven't tried this as you describe, but I know that moves from the movies have been replicated and taught in the Spin Zone.  I also know from the behind-the-scenes videos as well as analysis videos done by TPLA and others that most (if not all) of the actual fights in the movies are based on real martial arts.  For example, if you watch Rey and Kylo's fight from the end of The Force Awakens, you'll notice that her grips and moves post-force concentration (when she starts to win) are very much the same as the way you would fight with a staff.  The actress trained for weeks with a bo staff to prep for the movie with a master.  Her fighting is based on that.  (That's why she could handle the saber - she used staff techniques modified slightly for the single-blade saber)

So you should be able to do this.  I would recommend supplementing with something like TPLA (Terra Prime Lightsaber Academy) for basics and forms, though, if you're really serious about dueling.

[Saso Is-kor]

I haven't tried this as you describe, but I know that moves from the movies have been replicated and taught in the Spin Zone.  I also know from the behind-the-scenes videos as well as analysis videos done by TPLA and others that most (if not all) of the actual fights in the movies are based on real martial arts.  For example, if you watch Rey and Kylo's fight from the end of The Force Awakens, you'll notice that her grips and moves post-force concentration (when she starts to win) are very much the same as the way you would fight with a staff.  The actress trained for weeks with a bo staff to prep for the movie with a master.  Her fighting is based on that.  (That's why she could handle the saber - she used staff techniques modified slightly for the single-blade saber)

So you should be able to do this.  I would recommend supplementing with something like TPLA (Terra Prime Lightsaber Academy) for basics and forms, though, if you're really serious about dueling.

All good info, I'll check TPLA out then. Thank you and point for you 

[Saso Is-kor]

Sifting through Youtube I was able to find this...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5e0y1M04pE" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5e0y1M04pE</a>

It's from the first Force Unleashed game but this is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for. At the same time it might be as I feared because while movie duels are grounded in reality because the actors have to actually do the moves the same can't be said for a video game. It seems there are a few transfers behind the back which appear to be done blindly. I'm a novice with spins but they look super difficult, maybe not even possible since it is all computer generated.

[Taegin Roan]

Sifting through Youtube I was able to find this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5e0y1M04pE

It's from the first Force Unleashed game but this is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for. At the same time it might be as I feared because while movie duels are grounded in reality because the actors have to actually do the moves the same can't be said for a video game. It seems there are a few transfers behind the back which appear to be done blindly. I'm a novice with spins but they look super difficult, maybe not even possible since it is all computer generated.

That all looks very doable. The one behind the back spin is the only thing that would be a bit more difficult. I am by no means a "spin master", but I am pretty sure that everything in there with a little bit of practice could easily be done.

[Ander]

Is this something that some of you out there have accomplished or even tried to do?

I am sorry to dampen your enthusiasm, but I have to offer a negative opinion.
If you don't have the luck of a nearby competent light saber teacher to lead you through a decent training program, whether aimed to choreography or to combat, you might do better finding a good martial art teacher, to gain insight on your body, your posture and your movements.
Otherwise, trying to learn a posture, a movement or even worse a fighting technique, through a video, or even with an online tutor, is at best a waste of time, at worst a danger to your health.
Whatever you do, stay safe and have fun!

[Saso Is-kor]

I am sorry to dampen your enthusiasm, but I have to offer a negative opinion.
If you don't have the luck of a nearby competent light saber teacher to lead you through a decent training program, whether aimed to choreography or to combat, you might do better finding a good martial art teacher, to gain insight on your body, your posture and your movements.
Otherwise, trying to learn a posture, a movement or even worse a fighting technique, through a video, or even with an online tutor, is at best a waste of time, at worst a danger to your health.
Whatever you do, stay safe and have fun!

Wow, lots of food for thought. If you don't mind me asking how specifically do you mean it is dangerous? I mean granted there is always a potential for injury but I'm not talking about doing flips like Master Yoda in the air but just moving the saber around in a way that mimics moves shown through the media. As far as a "waste of time," aren't we all here in the Saber Combat section here for a reason? I sincerely appreciate your opposing viewpoint by the way 

[Mimiaga]

Yes and no.

Most of the fights depicted in media are "safe" (excluding the fights in Empire and Jedi, those fights are much more "real"). You can pick it out very clearly in the Maul fight in EP1 and some in the final fight of EP3. Most strikes in these duels would not have hit, even if they were not  blocked. The moves are meant to be flashy for the sake of entertainment. Replication of those fights basically require both parties not trying to actually score hits on one another. Most spins (not all, but most) shown in the media is a waste of movement and call be a massive tell for your opponent.

That being said, such moves can be used for motivation. Linking several actual strikes together can certainly give a similar impression to the fights depicted in media.

All that being said, with time it is possible. In my time as a staff user, I've managed to find practical ways to incorporate flashy spins and other stylized moves into actual strikes. However, they mostly come mid move-set, never as an opening strike (or before I'm actually engaged to try to intimidate my opponent). That being said a staff lends itself better to such techniques, a single balded saber not as much, but it can be possible. Bear in mind this is something I've started to incorporate AFTER 10+ years of staff fighting. You can see some basic examples of this in the video below.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMzIiEOzXYM" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMzIiEOzXYM</a>

[Saso Is-kor]

Excellent stuff there Mimiaga, and I see what you mean about incorporating the spins into actual strikes.

Perhaps I should have been more explicit in my original post that my question was more or less primarily aimed at spins and moves in the non-combat sense and more so in the flashy sense. Like trying to get super familiar with the lightsaber as a tool. My mind keeps going to the Obi/Ani spin as the prime example. The two characters do it in the film and then dozens of tutorials exist on YouTube to teach it.

[Mimiaga]

Excellent stuff there Mimiaga, and I see what you mean about incorporating the spins into actual strikes.

Perhaps I should have been more explicit in my original post that my question was more or less primarily aimed at spins and moves in the non-combat sense and more so in the flashy sense. Like trying to get super familiar with the lightsaber as a tool. My mind keeps going to the Obi/Ani spin as the prime example. The two characters do it in the film and then dozens of tutorials exist on YouTube to teach it.

That being the case then yes, the media is an excellent place to look. Most important thing is to log time with the saber. Practice practice practice. It sounds cliche but having the weapon be an extension of your arm is very important. Control and spacial awareness of the weapon is key, for both spins and actual fighting.

[Taegin Roan]

I know you said that the "spin zone" is a great resource, so I assume that you have been watching the vids there, but don't stop. And if you have questions on a particular move done in any of their videos, ask them. Samhain and Cephalus are both willing to make tutorials, and I'm sure Venturous is as well (plus then I can watch the tutorials too ).

[Ander]

Wow, lots of food for thought. If you don't mind me asking how specifically do you mean it is dangerous? I mean granted there is always a potential for injury but I'm not talking about doing flips like Master Yoda in the air but just moving the saber around in a way that mimics moves shown through the media. As far as a "waste of time," aren't we all here in the Saber Combat section here for a reason? I sincerely appreciate your opposing viewpoint by the way  

I always appreciate a reasonable discussion, so I am glad you feel that way.
By chance a friend of mine wrote an article last week about this topic, and I have posted it yesterday on a FB page I sporadically write my thoughts on light saber combat in, after translating it into English (somewhat literally, I am afraid, but it should be readable).
He is a Physical Education & Sport Sciences doctor, with multiple qualifications in three martial arts and in light saber combat; I don't always agree with his opinions, but I always listen because he has earned my respect in more than one way, and in this case I think that he illustrates the point fairly well.
The crux of the matter is that learning a physical subject without physical oversight by an instructor makes you liable to self injury.

If you are interested, you can read it at:
https://www.facebook.com/notes/unchained-saber/why-you-cannot-learn-from-videos/1850749481882158/
I might do a post about this subject here sooner or later, but first I want to collect my thoughts and see if I have anything to add to his article.

Have a good one!

[Saso Is-kor]

I always appreciate a reasonable discussion, so I am glad you feel that way.
By chance a friend of mine wrote an article last week about this topic, and I have posted it yesterday on a FB page I sporadically write my thoughts on light saber combat in, after translating it into English (somewhat literally, I am afraid, but it should be readable).
He is a Physical Education & Sport Sciences doctor, with multiple qualifications in three martial arts and in light saber combat; I don't always agree with his opinions, but I always listen because he has earned my respect in more than one way, and in this case I think that he illustrates the point fairly well.
The crux of the matter is that learning a physical subject without physical oversight by an instructor makes you liable to self injury.

If you are interested, you can read it at:
https://www.facebook.com/notes/unchained-saber/why-you-cannot-learn-from-videos/1850749481882158/
I might do a post about this subject here sooner or later, but first I want to collect my thoughts and see if I have anything to add to his article.

Have a good one!

I appreciate it Ander, I'll give that a read for sure.

[Karmack]

Thanks for the link Ander!  This rings true with me.  One of the things I drill into newbie's heads in karate class is that there is a right way to punch.  All of it, from the way you make a fist, how you line up your wrist, how your arm and shoulder and torso and hips move - its all important.  Hit something with a bent wrist, for example, and you're going to do damage to yourself instead of the target.  And I am CONSTANTLY folding students' thumbs down under their knuckles!  People want to hang their thumbs out for some reason!  But try to punch like that, you'll catch that thumb on something and tear ligaments in your wrist.  That way brings surgery and rehab and maybe never having full motion of your thumb again.  In the short term, you can no longer make a fist, no longer use that hand, and if you're in a real self-defense fight ... you may die.

All because you didn't tuck your thumb right.

And that's the point.  Body mechanics are critical to proper movements.  So I have to echo the concern. 

I'd also be ... careful of copying anything from animation or a video game.  The moves of the Qui Gon avatar in the video clip are pretty basic and seem sound, but I know some of the spins I've seen (saber spinning, not body spinning) are not possible.  The character is spinning the saber in an OPEN hand, apparently using the force to hold it while the hilt spins on the palm. 

Sorry.  No Real World way to replicate that...  :-)

But I digress.  If you're really on your own, one thing you should do is video yourself making the moves and then watch yourself.  Its embarrassing but also enlightening.  That way you can at leat make sure you're doing it right and not doing something funky or really off.  You can also post the video and get feed-back from others, which should also help minimize bad body mechanics and possible injury.

[Saso Is-kor]

All excellent tips Karmack, I thank you very much and LS point for you.