Saber Forum

Hello, fellow saber enthusiasts.

After having trained for 4 weeks, I finally managed the 4th Trajectory of TPLA's Dulon (which I've watched on youtube, 'cause I live in Germany  ;)).

Following a fellow forum member's advice, I'm now posting a video of my progress so far, mainly to get some constructive feedback on it. (But, man, you should see my spins  ;D ;D ;D)

Especially thankful I would be for any advice from our Resident Masters (Master Nonymous, can you hear me???  ;D) to improve my technique.

So here I go ... Feedback me  8)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElEj-jHZdnE

I'm no Master but that looks pretty good for 4 weeks.

It's a lot to remember especially from watching videos, you have to stop it, watch it again, stop it, watch it again. LOL

You get a point for effort and confidence to upload it for critique, as well as adding multiple angles for us to watch from  ;)

Excellent work! Very impressive for only 4 weeks out! You seem to understand the basics behind the movements. Again Nice job.

As far as what to work on, I will say that your footwork should take precedence over everything. I would advise keeping a narrower stance side to side. If looking on ward, don't let your heels go outside of your hips or cross each other. The set is very linear so think of a hallway that you are moving though. This will give your hips more room to turn and thus. make the strikes stronger and faster with less effort.

Second on the jewels to put yourself out there!

I wish I could give you 5 points: 1 for effort 1 for technique and 3 for good lighting!

Alas, have one.

Great work! Keep it up!

Your humble student, Master!


OF course, you have a point here. Indeed I have mainly concentrated on the upper body movements, neglecting my footwork. I'm looking very much forward to integrating your sound advice into my training in the next few weeks (if I fully understand it, which I don't know after just reading; practice will show!  ;)). Thank you very much, Master Nonymous.


Good I was so patient. Was about to post 3/4 th of the Dulon, filmed in a pitch black night in the snow (man, did it shine) !  ;D ;D ;D

Master, I will! :)


stop it, watch it again, stop it, watch it again. stop it, watch it again, stop it, watch it again. stop it, watch it again, stop it, watch it again. stop it, watch it again, stop it, watch it again.  :D

Thanks a lot for your appreciation!

I have to agree with Master Nonymous and Kham, you've done an exceptional job learning the material.  My only thought is to keep a slightly lower center of gravity, keeping you knees bent, and focus on the footwork aspect as Master Nonymous mentioned.  Your bladework is very good, especially for someone just now learning from TPLA, so once you get the movement down you will be in excellent shape.


I've done the same thing at times, and I know how tedious that can be.  That you memorized it so soundly is impressive enough, but the motions are really quite natural as well.  I think you're coming along very nicely!

Keep watching the video, and keep practicing the motions... over and over and over again, until they feel natural to you.  Then practice some more!  It sounds like torture, but it's really the best way to learn.  Also, the more videos you post here the more critique you will get, which will only help facilitate your training, as it will help you to move in the right direction.

Bravo (point!)
And thank you for offering this up, with good production quality.

The others have already covered the feedback I might have offered.
Footwork, practice it, learn it, love it.

Keep up the great work.

My dear Masters Nero Attoru and VorNach,

thank you both for your kind words of encouragement.

@Master Nero Attoru: lowering my center of gravity will probably go along with Master Nonymous' advice very well, so I will try to integrate both aspects at once, knowing that it will mean learning it anew step by step (literally! ::)), but that's exactly the kind of advice I had hoped for.

@Master VorNach: ... and love it I will!  ;D

4 weeks!? *jaw drops* Phenomenal, Darth Sabre!! It took me several years to get to where you are right now; keep up the awesome work!!  ;D

Very great work! I can sympathize (being I am another student in exile) with the whole watch, pause, unpause and watch again because I forgot what I just watched, and attempt. Wash, rinse, and repeat. It is hard and requires a lot of patience.

And a point to you for filming and allowing us to watch!

Thanks again for the appreciation!


Well, it's been 4/5 weeks I've been into the Dulon itself; of course I did some swordplay/work before, mainly practicing cuts ("Haue") with a 11/2-hander, so I wasn't beginning from scratch!  ;D


I must say I feel very safe within this forum with all the open-minded and positive people around, and of course with our experienced and highly engaged Resident Masters!

My dear Master Nonymous,

after having watched your step-by-step tutorial video again, I must admit: you REALLY have feet (and they are on the vid indeed) !!!  ;D ;D ;D

So I took a closer look to wonder about the 14 (at least that's what I counted) different foot positions in the FIRST TRAJECTORY alone! So I tried to get them on a piece of paper for not having to turn the computer on so often.

Though this was meant as a guideline for me, I thought others might be interested/ might profit from it as well, so here is what I did.
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/darthsabre72/2012-12-232012-12-23001003_zps78b544df.jpg)
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/darthsabre72/2012-12-232012-12-23001004_zpscb9ff016.jpg)

Actually, I think it's not easy to understand on the first glimpse, 'cause I was focused on the position of the feet (side to side), not primarily on the progress in the room. For example: steps 2, 3a and 3b show the right feet in the same position, only pointing in three different directions.  :o

If anyone wants to have the pictures in a bigger format, feel free to email me, and I will send them.

And another question: I saw mentioned in a TPLA video, that footwork concerning the Dulon is (apart from the "basic footwork for lightsaber" which I 've just found) featured in a video about Shii Cho basic strikes, which I cannot watch on youtube (due to music copyright issues in Germany...  :'(). Is there any way to watch that video somewhere else?

And, of course:

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YE ALL!!!  :D

Wow!!  That is amazing stuff! It is, as you say, a little hard to follow, but still very well done indeed.  Point to you for putting it together!

Very nice. I will definitely take a look at that and see if I have any suggestions.

Yeah, sorry about that. GEMA doesn't like me using Lucasfilm music because they are protecting the rights of corporations..er eh hem.. I mean artists.

I will be uploading another video soon with the basic level of Shii-cho done as a study guide.

Merry Christmas to you as well and a happy Festivus for the rest of us! :D

Hi!

This is another approach, maybe a touch better to follow  ;D but definitely a touch better to integrate any suggestions!

(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/darthsabre72/ShiiChoDulonT1_zps9c1ffb8d.png)

Now the progress in the room is visible too!

Will now work on a similar plan for the other trajectories!

One thing to think about as you do this is weight distribution. Which foot is most of the weight on with each step.

Just shot you an email with a suggestion! Feel free to edit everything at will or mail back any suggestions.

Just wanted to drop a note and say how impressed I am with this. Very nice work. I will be in touch via email soon.

Have a point for awesome determination and dedication

My dear Masters,

knowing I have only just begun integrating your advice, I still want to post a video of my progress so far, mainly to hear (well, read  ;D) if I'm going in the right direction. I think I understood the essence of your advice, to master it will take a lot more time, of course!

Here's what I tried to do (all concerning footwork):

1) closer stance side by side
2) slightly lower center of gravity (though that's tougher than I supposed; not come that far up to now  :()
3) correct position of the feet in the different stances.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJW5gns7eYM

Because this is about footwork, please excuse the absence of my head or my saber in some positions !  ;)

P.S.: The more I watch the video, the more things I see that need my further attention. Damn, a door has been opened ...  :P

The floodgates have swung open and released the full might of The Force! Great job! Dark side point to you. Keep going my friend! All I can add is to practice over and over. Take Trajectory One and practice only it until it looks like your own. Give it a little twist of your own personality.

You've motivated me to film my version of Trajectory One.

Ver cool!  Definitely a point for you. 

Also, since this is about footwork, I'd like to pose an additional question to the Masters.  In Darth Sabre's video he takes what look like very small steps (especially in Trajectory 1).  I tend to take much larger steps, possibly on account of my height.  Does it make any real difference to the execution of the moves?  For the record, this is an observation and comparison, not a critique of you or your work, Darth Sabre.  I'm in no position to critique anyone. 

Glad for everyone who joins this post to explore the mysteries of the TLPA Dulon ...  ;D Great way to learn; the more people have questions, the more answers I get !  ;D ;D

And POINT for your politeness and carefulness, Oramac.  ;D ;D ;D

Update:

Corrected saber-position (Trajectory Two: Parry Zone 1)
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/darthsabre72/2012-12-302012-12-30002003_zpsa324cb20.jpg)

Deeper stance (Trajectory Two: Shii Cho Sun)
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/darthsabre72/2012-12-302012-12-30002005_zps736d9f69.jpg)
Though I'm not sure if the sole of the right foot must stay flat on the floor.

Darth Sabre.... i commend your determination, for you have inspired another to join you in the forms mystery discovery... i too shall be working on form videos... i am still trying to figure out what form i would more fit.. i will have videos soon. point for darth sabre indeed

Looks good. Just make sure your knee tracks with your foot (toe pints the same direction). In the kneeling stance, the heel can come up off the floor, but make sure your foot does not go to it's side like in the photo. Simply allow the heel to rise was you drop your knee into the kneeling stance. Don't actually rest your knee on the floor unless you need to. But be ready to turn for the next trajectory.

Again, keep up the good work.

Please do not forget all those who have gone before you on this path. Search YouTube for the seven forms (Shii-Cho, Makashi, Soresu, Ataru, Shien/ Djem So, Niman, Juyo / Vaapaad) , and be rewarded with videos. Terra Prime Lightsaber Academy's work is a definite must-see.

As for determining what you are, see this thread to give you possibly an idea.
http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=10894.0 (http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=10894.0)

This thread is also useful:
http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=10757.0 (http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=10757.0)

Happy New Year for us all!


Knee/foot: roger roger (not like in pictures 4 and 6 below  :(). Foot on its side: I thought so ...
Thanks again for your feedback and guidance, Master.

And because pictures seem to be more effective (at some point) than videos, here are some stills.

TRAJECTORY ONE
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/darthsabre72/TrajectoryOne2_zpsfdaa271f.jpg)
(sorry for the missing feet in the last row; they are mainly parallel, apart from the Hutt Slide)

@Master Nero: lower center of gravity accomplished ?

If something's catching your eye: any feedback is most welcome !!!

Tracectory Two will be following shortly!


Inspired a JEDI to improve in lightsaber combat? WHAT HAVE I DONE ...... ?  :o

there may be a day ... when the likes of you and I face one another in a duel.. <.<..... and i shall welcome the challenge at that time... i look forward to it my brother in the force... lol.. keep up the hard work

 ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D

Trajectory Two
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/darthsabre72/TrajectoryTwo_zps2885b443.jpg)

And more questions:

Transition from Traj. 1 to Traj. 2, when you move from Hutt Slide to a back stance (Parry), is the weight staying on the left (back) foot in both stances or is it on the right (forward) foot at the end of the Hutt Slide and then shifted to the left (back) foot?

Picture 2 (Orbit): I suppose the feet should already be "closed" at that point (or doesn't it matter as long as they are "closed" at some point)?

What exactly is the difference between the Shii Cho Sun and the Shii Cho Mok (all I can identify is the saber going overhead in the "Mok" while being more at the side with the "Sun")?

While waiting for your opinion on my questions to Trajectory Two, I want to share a PM with very detailed advice from Master VorNach with you all. Hope this is of some interest for others, too!

"Darth Saber
I wanted to applaud your dedication to study and your willingness to share your progress so openly on the forum.

You're getting excellent feedback from the other Resident masters but after your most recent post I wanted to offer up a few observations / suggestions.

Briefly, relax your shoulders. I see at points you are lifting them up high.
Keep your feet and knees pointing in the same direction.
Watch the spacing between your feet. Think of having a straight rope on the ground. Generally speaking you want to have your feet spaced on either side of that line, and definitely not crossed (right foot on left side of the line or vice versa).

These are things to watch for as they are not consistent issues. Your form looks good and you are making excellent progress. Keep up the great work.

V"

Reply:
"My Dear Master VorNach,
thank you very much for your detailed advice; I am very grateful for that.

1) Shoulders: I will try; they haven't been in my focus yet.
2) feet/knees: that's really difficult and will probably take some more time, though it is in my view!
3) Spacing: Guess I will start with a real rope to get this straight. And I find this dancing on a razor's edge between not crossing the legs and keeping a closer stance (one of my first feedbacks I got). So the rope will definitely be a help.

With your consent (will wait for your reply), I would like to copy your advice into the thread, so others may profit from it as well.

Darth Sabre"

this was from the form thread http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=2131.0 (http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=2131.0)  were in the first post if another link, it has ALOT of info and detailed description of many aspects of each form.. its is worth reading if you have not done so yet... this entry specify seems like it is a "must know" for any and all saber duelists, and should be a primary "basic" information for all shi-cho learns as well..
you asked about 2 different strikes.. or marks.. in the shi-cho form trajectory.. i feel this will help better understand them and their meanings

please enjoy

Marks of Contact "Every feint, every dodge, every block is a trap to the unwary." - Tenet of Lightsaber Combat
The Marks of Contact are areas of an opponent's body which were considered prime targets to end the duel. These areas ranged from the disabling, to the maiming, to the killing blows. The Jedi strongly stressed using these marks of contact with intent, and to not use the killing marks unless deemed absolutely necessary.
As with all martial arts. Different Forms favor different areas. There are also several examples throughout the movies. I will also mention the philosophical leanings of the Jedi and Sith in these regards as well as using them for the stage.

Shiim, a grazing blow on the body. Used more to disable. Count Dooku used Shiim on Obi-Wan during their first duel, immobilizing him and taking him out of the duel.

Shiak, This is using the tip of the blade to pierce the body. This was the premiere mark for Makashi users. Darth Maul used shiak on Qui-Gon Jinn on Naboo, killing him. The Jedi Order preferred this as a means of honorably killing an opponent.
These two Marks are considered the most fundamental in lightsaber combat. The lightsaber blade is weightless, making control more diffcult, especially for non Force Sensitives. To be able to stop the edge of the blade, or direct the tip of the blade to precise points without making a mess should be considered a sign of control.

Sun Djem, targets the opponents weapon with the intent to disarm them. This can be done by cutting the weapon, thereby destroying it. Sun Djem can also be used by simply physically attacking the opponent. Any method that removes renders the opponent unarmed is considered under this mark. Sun Djem was a preferred mark for Shii Cho users. Makashi users were trained to protect against this mark.

Cho Mai, severing the opponents dominant hand. This is one of the most widely seen marks used in lightsaber combat. The most famous example being Vader cutting Luke's hand off during their duel on Bespin.

Cho Sun, severing the dominant arm. A modification on of Cho Mai, this was the removal of the opponents arm at the elbow.

Cho Mok, severing a non dominant limb. This is move was only suggested as a last ditch move in a duel.

Mou Kei, means "To Dismember". This is the severing of several limbs at once. It is a forbidden move by the Jedi. It was used on Vader by Obi-Wan Kenobi on Mustafar, cutting off his other arm and both of his legs. It is one of the prime reasons Vader was forced to wear his life support suit.

Sai Cha, severing the opponents head. While the Jedi Order frowned down upon killing, they found this to be an honorable end in a duel. Use by Mace Windu on Jango Fett on Geonosis and by Luke to the Phantom Vader during his training on Dagobah.

Sai Tok, slicing the body in half. Considered a Dark Side move for its barbarism. Nevertheless, it's main example is Obi-Wan using it against Darth Maul on Naboo, killing him.

Using these Marks in Stage Combat is interesting. A lot of them revolve around the practice of dismembering an opponent's body. That kinda limits the field of what can and can't be done. However, moves like Shiim (grazing cuts) and Shiak (stabs) are highly popular and easy to use.
Sun Djem is an interesting move, in that it requires removing the opponents weapon from them. One of the most common tricks is simply miming a force pull, and the opponents saber "flies" into your hands or onto the floor. One example I saw had one opponent with using a prop blaster shooting against a Jedi. The Jedi, Joga (A soresu user, mind you) blocks the shots and swipes across the saber. The gunman takes aim one more time, but the gun falls apart, cut in half by the saber. That is Sun Djem.

The Jedi Community uses a basic form of the Marks of Contact. The Alphabet System Revolves around attacking several key points, giving the illusion (KEY WORD) that contact is implied and intended. There are six marks: The head, the shoulders, the hips, and the groin, with thrusts to the body. Some members include strikes to the thighs as well, implying cuts to the femoral arteries.
The only way I can see using most of the Marks of Contact in Stage Combat, short of rigging falling body parts (A la Monty Python's Black Knight) is the way it is depicted in samurai films. Killing blows are generally implied, with some exceptions in the gorier movies. Cutting a limb, or severing the body, can be implied simply by where you strike. The audience will get that you have struck. Beheading can be done simply by angling the execution in a way that the person can tuck their head to their chest, obscuring it from the audiences view.

The Marks of Contact help us in understanding the roles of the Seven Forms, especially those of the first four. Shiim requires great control of the saber, to the point where one could just use the edge to graze a limb. Form I's goal was to teach this control. Shiak is the precision stab of a limb. Makashi focus is on precision work, and is noted for its stabs. These are the two fundamental Marks of Contact.
The other Forms are applications of the Marks, with Forms III and IV being the basis for the others. Form III is the defense of these Marks, only striking when an opening/Mark is available to end fight. Form IV was the rapid attacking of openings, hopefully in the attempt to catch the opponent before they could respond. The other three forms are composites, and mix and match the concepts of these four to suit it's needs.
I would like to mention at this point that there are several tactics that could be employed during Lightsaber Combat. These techniques were independent of the Seven Forms, but could clearly be in conjunction with them. They were used to give the advantage, and were not necessarily fight winners. In battle, there are no guarantees These are the more popular tactics.

Sokan: Use of the environment to your advantage. This can be using a flaw in the structure, like the supports of a building or the strength of the ice you stand on. It can also be simple as having the high ground. Can be used either with the saber, the Force or manually. The main way to counter is both simplistic and problematic: Eliminate the surroundings around you.

Tràkata: One of the classic abilities of the lightsaber is its function as a hilt with an extending blade. This works both ways. By drawing in your blade mid-battle, you can confuse or unbalance your opponent long enough to take an opportunity. Similar in someways to the Samurai's

Battou-Jutsu. Favored by the Jedi for its practicality.

Dun Möch: More psychological than physical. Dun Möch is the taunting of the opponent, goading them into anger and making them forget their tactics. Can backfire, and bolster the opponents efforts. The reverse is used by the Jedi to stop and redeem their dark side opponent.

Form Zero: Ironically, the first form of lightsaber combat mentioned is the most sensible Form Zero focuses on diffuse attacks using peaceful negotiations and The Force. The lightsaber is not used, making it more of a symbol than weapon. "The best blades are kept in their sheaths".

as you may see... from the second link i posted witch contains this entry... it also has detailed information on each of the 7 forms, it is very much helping me to understand even more of the forms, and how they are truely used...

If I am understanding ou, you do want to shift back as you do the parry over head.

As long as you are aware of it and can control it you will be fine.

the TPLA system uses the MoC as a staring point but have defined them and used them to be a bit more specific. Cho sun is cutting off the limb nearest the body and mom is cutting the limb in two. In our point system, sun is the upper arm, and mok is the lower arm and wrist.

In the Dulon think about your targets changing not the body mechanics.

I hope that clear some stuff up.

Thank you for the answers and Genkaku Sho`shyk: your input is very welcome!!!


I would like to know on which foot most of the weight is at the end of the Hutt Slide. Is it on the front foot and then shifted to the back foot in the following parry, or is it on the back foot and stays there when going into the parry (Sorry, can't think of a way to make me clearer  :-[)

Greetings.

Spent a lot of time in the last few days to work on my footwork.


I found it helpful, to tackle the staff Dulon; in doing something "new", I found it easier to get a fresh look at things, though the two Dulons are very much alike.

Two reasons why I decided to post this:

1) Holidays are coming to an end, and I really don't know when I have the time again to go into this so intensely.
2) Tackling the staff Dulon is new for me and there are many potential mistakes that would find their way into my routine (permanently), so in Germany we say: "Wehret den Anfängen!" (all I found is "Nip it in the bud"; hope this comes close :)).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ps9l6wq9S4&feature=youtu.be



I would be happy to get some feedback that I could integrate in the last days  :( of my holidays.

@ Masters Nonymous and VorNAch: I really enjoyed your last show and will definitely integrate squats and push-ups. Thank you for that.
@ Master Nonymous:  have you already had time to look into the foot-diagrams?

OK! Holidays are over and here I go with what I've learned before. Still thankful for all the good advice. Hope I can keep up practicing every day!

To come to a clear end with this thread, I'll post all the footwork diagrams that helped me a lot to tackle the Dulon.

NOTE: these are my personal notes. They are NOT (yet) reviewed by Master Nonymous, but maybe they can be a little help for coming students.

(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/darthsabre72/T1_zps8b2c352c.png) (http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/darthsabre72/T2_zps835ef9c2.png)

(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/darthsabre72/T3_zpsf3111a36.png) (http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/darthsabre72/T4_zps391ab9e5.png)

Whoever wants to have clearer docs, shoot me a pm for the original Word-files.

Greetings
Darth Sabre

excellent work...  point!!

Ohh Left foot Yellow!.....and I am out, i fell over.  ;D

That footing chart is freaking awesome, DS! As I'm also paying attention to my footwork during practice, this gives a good example to work with!

Very good. I have yet to go through it in detail as I am busy building the website for TPLA as we speak. It has not gone unnoticed.

I thought so and will be glad to edit this any time in the future.

I am looking forward to continue learning and am very curious about the coming homepage!

It would be great to get some answers to the open questions in this thread, but it really doesn't matter when; am very busy in my job right now!

Hallway, mmmh, I think this is what you had in mind, Master Nonymous!  ;)
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/darthsabre72/2013-01-222013-01-22001001_zpsf241f9dc.jpg)
Think it won't qualify as an arena for the trials, though!  :D

And a point for the dedication to take your practice sessions to Hoth.

+1!!  You're a braver man than I.  I hate the cold so much I'd pile on clothes to even go outside in that.  To the point I probably couldn't get the saber over my head.  lol.  (I exaggerate, but not much)

I'm no master but awsome work just watch that back hand it's drifting a bit. When you slash you need the hands in sync right is a guide hand while the left makes the motion don't let the left hand lift after the right is parallel with the waist the weight of the saber should carry not be forced.

Thanks for taking the time to watch and feedback! And I see what you mean ...

No prob always like to help a fellow sith if I can.

From the Ice Desert of Hoth ...

...to the Swamps of Dagobah!  ;D
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/darthsabre72/2013-01-302013-01-30001001_zps044b5e1c.jpg)

Let the trials begin! I'm anxious ;D

Hello everybody.

So, this is where I've come so far.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5Y37PAirWk

Greetings from Germany.

Greetings from a fellow learner! (though I am some months behind you it seems, as I only began in the latter half of May)

Watching the first video and the last one is like night and day. You have, to my learner's eyes, come such a LONG way....it's awesome! I'd like to offer my own encouragement to keep doing what you are doing, relax with your movements and ENJOY! You're doing, as far as I can see, a great job and long may it continue!

*well deserved POINT!*

Thanks for the encouragement, my fellow Sith! And: you may seem to be some months behind IN TIME, but you more than make it up with awesome dedication. We will definitely hear from each other again ...

Thank you my fellow Sith! Yes, I'm determined to learn and become good at this, just as I know you are! I'm certain that we shall both succeed and become credits to our Order!

Also happy to hear from a fellow Sith-in-training! :)

After going through this whole thread Darth Sabre,

first I must say it's impressive, most impressive.

Really, your development and movement going from the first video through the last is most inspiring.

Inspiring enough that this "Jedi" has decided to accept his current pitfalls as such and continue forward.  You've inspired me to start practicing with my mop stick basically.  Its still the same basic concept, just nothing as pretty as what I've gotten used to.  I'll too post up videos of my progress as soon as I am able to do so with the first trajectory, seeing how much you learned from the advice and critiques is awesome.

just wanted to admit that this "Jedi" is definitely impressed by dedication and drive "Sith."

OK. First of all, I wanna thank you for your warm words and for the appreciation of my training so far. You are right about the dedication ... lightsaber training has become an integral part of my life and I'm working on it almost every day.

Second. Dedication is the one side, guidance is the other. Having started on the training videos of TPLA on my own and then getting in contact with the TPLA Masters was really a positive experience. Now that I am in the TPLA Learners in Exile - program, Feedback and guidance have become more direct and there is much input from the other LX's around. What I wanna say is this: the input I got so far goes a lot further than the feedback in this thread, for which I am really thankful to all involved in TPLA.

Third: I'm still at the very beginning!  ;D

Last: Watching the TPLA videos on Shii Cho and scanning their website will give you a lot of starting material. I wish you, that you have as much fun with all of that as I have. Enjoy yourself and get into contact with others, as you want to do, and the spark will carry you further.

Thanks again for your feedback, Jedi! I guess, dedication is not unheard of in your order, too?  ;)

As someone just starting on the Shii Cho dulon this thread showing your journey learning it is really inspiring Darth Sabre, and I will study Master Vornach and Darth Nonomous' notes in detail.  I wish I could give you more than one point!

As someone who has done sword training in the snow, it is impressive how fast Hoth can turn into Dagobah once you get going!

I do not have room to do the Dulon as shown, so will have to fiddle with the footwork, I hope that is OK.

Thanks, Cornwaille.

I decided to post the essence of the advice I got on Shii Cho outside this thread from the TPLA Masters  here for you guys, so you get a more complete picture.

So here is the short form:

1. "Slow down and feel what you are doing." The mother of all advices ...  ;D I tended (should I really use past tense ...  ;)) to rush through things.

Footwork:
2a. "Try to keep your legs very steady through the entire movement. The hips, knees and feet should all work together and stay in line." That is a tough one for me ... controlling my lower body really is the hardest part.
2b. "Think about tearing the ground apart with your heels as you sink into the strike. Don't be tuck the front hip and push the knees gently outward." That picture of "tearing the ground apart" really helped me along ...
2c. "You want to keep the front knee tracking with the foot. Also try to keep the shin vertical." I'm still working on that one day by day by day ...

3. "Focus on the imaginary duel that is happening."
4. "Be careful of your posture. Leaning forward at the end of a strike usually happens because of the force behind it. In this case it seems like you lean forward continuously which would not benefit your technique."

At the moment, my training focus is on Makashi, but Shii Cho is with me every day ... and so is this dulon.

Thanks to my Masters for gently pushing me forward!

Btw: Like TPLA on Facebook ... great way to keep yourself informed!
https://www.facebook.com/TerraPrimeLightsaberAcademy?fref=ts (https://www.facebook.com/TerraPrimeLightsaberAcademy?fref=ts)

I hear you about the slow thing.  I remember that from Longsword.  I have been taking it painfully slow, but as I start to speed up the trajectories feel much more natural.

I was always been told off for my footwork and am trying to focus on it here.  I have old injuries to my knees that make taking the lower stances a bit painful, but I know from experience that that pain is something I just have to live with, so I will persist with trying to get the lower stances right.

I hope I am doing as well as you were 4 weeks in!

How is Makashi going for you? I have not looked at any of the Form 2-4 videos in case I would be tempted to get ahead of myself.  I couldn't resist with Djem So though, lol.

If you're knees hurt then back off a bit. Talk with a doctor. You can practice the low stances, just don't go so low that they cause you pain.

It doesn't hurt to look at the other forms, just stay focused on your current goals.

I started out with Makashi just a couple of weeks ago on advice from Master Nonymous. Up to then, I had focused on Shii Cho. Now that I'm doing the very basic Makashi stuff, I can say: I love it, and I wouldn't have thought. And I will definitely take my time getting the basics down and into flesh and blood. One thing I can say: Makashi footwork is easier for me ... but again, Shii Cho is the basis for everything.

I would love to see videos of your approach ... same goes for Badger!

And: yes, yes. To Master VorNach you listen!  ;)

I'm looking forward to learning a different approach to Makashi as well, with the Chinese influence.  That's going to be a ton of fun.  I also have my new rebated Scottish Backsword commission started, and I have my cavalry saber.  Makashi is going to be fun.  As of right now, I'm working on Shii-Cho, and I'm not a member of the TPLA either.  Just a nerd wanting to get back into shape again.  As soon as I have a camera that I can rely on to take video, I'll post some videos up for sure in my own thread.

thanks for the compliment Darth Sabre.  It's you who deserves the credit for me starting again with next to nothing to work with.

I have been to doctors and physios about my various ailments, the cartilage in my knees is wrecked (and the discs in my back are worse), short of popping pain pills whenever I need to do squats, they say there is nothing they can do except lose weight to help take stress off them (learning lightsabre is part of that, and it is going well) 

I will hold off going low for now and focus on getting my feet in the right place and getting the strikes right, thank you. :-)

I am actually very interested in your and Darth Nonymous's spin doctor video.  We never spun our swords around like that back in the day, and it looks fun.  I even ordered a saberstaff after watching that video!   

Hey everybody.

When I started out with this dulon, I didn't know anything about the different strikes or stances; I just jumped into memorizing it as I saw it. In the process of learning, of course, I slowly discovered the TPLA videos on the Sai, Cho and Shiim strikes, and, of course, on footwork (steps and stances). As they all are part of the dulon, I didn't come around training them all in separate exercises/drills, to get the movements right (well, as right as I have them up to now is what I mean  ;)).

As you know, my focus is on footwork and eliminating the flaws in my lower body movements. These are the exercises I'm doing at the moment to, slowly, get it all down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkTHmVX33QM&feature=youtu.be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UTqzPCusiM&feature=youtu.be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8tmMc0ufVU&feature=youtu.be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnRWlLP35D4&feature=youtu.be

Looking very much forward to tonights TPLA show on drills.  ;D There will be much to be integrated into my training routine.

Ok, I am working on these things too, but would you mind if I offered an observation or two? I offer them purely as that, and may well be corrected by the Masters; as I am merely an acolyte learner.

Sai strike: Try to turn your hips and shoulders a little more into the strike, that way you're using your body more and your arms less. The first one was pretty well what I'm talking about, but after that you didn't get quite so much rotation.

Cho strike: Try to turn hips a little more here too, so you end in a slightly narrower stance; a little more "in line" with the feet; one pointing forwards, one outwards.

Shiim strike: Try to come slightly more through your target; to the middle line of your body. Setting up a stick to hit, that's on your centre line would probably help to practice this.

Tapping temples, same thing really, aim at the mid-line. Again, having a target should really help (it is doing me!)

Over all, try to go even slower, especially with foot work, try to float the moving foot from stance to stance, keeping good balance with your rear leg til you arrive and change weight distribution.

All in all Great work! I hope you don't mind me offering my observations.

I must agree with Darth Arkanus and say congratulations on the fine work.  The only major concern I have for you is your follow-through on your strikes- your head and upper back appear to dip down.  Try to keep your back as straight as possible.  Any time one leans forward, they give an easy headshot to their opponent ;)

awesome work!

Very nice work.
Watch your right side strikes you tend to exaggerate those movements especially in cho.
The footwork has improved immensely.
Actually, the lean forward is intentional in our system. It isn't really a lean forward as it is a rotation on that axis. If you straighten up you distort the arc and loose integrity in the strike. As long as the spine remains relaxed and in neutral, the technique is correct.

then I stand corrected as that's exactly what it appears Darth Sabre is doing!  Excellent job then Darth Sabre.  As I said, that was the only concern I could readily see, but apparently it's fine.  Awesome job, and your footwork is coming along nicely.

i apologise also if my remarks were inaccurate. As I said, I'm still learning too.

Thank you, Master. I'm REALLY glad that my footwork is moving in the right direction; it still affords a lot of concentration/attention, but it's getting more natural step by tiny step. And I will definitely have a look at the exaggeration of my strikes.

And thanks to Badger and Arkanus for sharing your point of view. It leads to discussion and clarification.

@Arkanus: I will look into some things you have mentioned. Whether they were inaccurate, I'm in no position to tell yet!

And, of course:

There's only one Sith answer to this, saber brother: I will cut your throat in your sleep!  ;)

That's good then.


Perhaps one of the Masters can clarify that, and I can learn something more too.

As for the Sith response, *evil grin* I look forward to you trying, and to letting you experience the full power of the Dark Side as I fry you with a little something I've been working on, my Sith brother! ;)

Sometimes it is truly a wonder that you Sith ever come together and form a united front EVER in the history of the Star Wars Universe.  Not going to lie, being a Jedi Shadow would almost be a moot point and I can go back to my regular duties as an investigator on Nar Shadaa again ;)

Darth Sabre,

I saw your comment on my thread, be careful what you wish for Saber-brother. ;) But as to your footwork.  I've been around swords my whole life.  All I can say is that your dedication is truly showing in your work.  I can tell the difference. 

Ok. First training impressions here ...

Turning more into the strike and narrower stance...

... seem to go somehow against advice I got before: that I'm leaning too much into the strikes, and should keep the feet "at either side of a rope". Don't get me wrong ... I know, that this is just a basic rule. Let me put it that way: concerning footwork, I have 3 or 4 major "pillars" that help me at the moment to get it slowly down. Keeping the feet set apart is one of those ... as well as "tearing the ground", and keeping the shin vertical and the knees "on the outside". My feelings are that as long as I need those to get my feet really firm on the ground, I wouldn't try to go "against" one (except one of our Masters strongly advised me to do so) ... even if it offered another advantage.


Your observation on "Tapping the temples"...

... is, in my view, correct. As a consequence, I will stop the "mixing" of the accelerations and will train them in their "pure" form again ... I think I lost my focus here. Thank you.


Shiim ...

... I'm not sure here. I often imagine hitting the limbs when attacking zones 2/3 5/6, so I don't need to go through the middle line. Again, I may be wrong.


And yes, I'm doing all of this in varying "tempi" beginning really slow, and increasing speed to what you see in the vids.


So far up to now...


@Badger: thanks again for your appreciation of my work.

Hi Michael,

I can understand what you mean, but let me try to explain my thinking here. Once again, I will probably be corrected, and then I'll learn something new as well. Like I said, I'm just learning too.



I didn't actually say "narrow your stance", I don't believe. What I said was to turn your shoulders and hips more into the strike. Take a look at Master Nonymous' Sai video here: (comments afterwards)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsFZgDDd2No#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsFZgDDd2No#ws)

The Master is doing a three-phase step, where he goes from a shoulder width stance, brings the feet together, and then out again into a shoulder width stance. This is how we were taught Gunnun Sogi (Walking stance) in Tae Kwon Do.

(http://eng.inkungfu.com/upload/201008/20100805095653359.jpg)

You'll notice that in that picture the MAist is not leaning forward, which is wrong for our system, but the foot placement is at least similar. The lean is created, I believe, by bracing the back leg and keeping the body in a straight line with the bracing leg,

Now the twist; Master Nonymous twists into the strike, turn his shoulders almost into a line forwards, placing his open side of his body almost completely to the side. The front Shoulder lines up with the front knee also. You can do this by turning your hips just enough without changing your stance, or letting the shoulder pass the knee position. (N.B. I sometimes over-rotate this stance, and am working on that too)

The Cho strike is similar, but in this video (see below) Master Nonymous is doing the Cho to the inside, i.e. towards the front leg instead of away from it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2Q65D_Qpmw#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2Q65D_Qpmw#ws)

This strikes me as akin to Tae Kwon Do's Annuro Makgi (Inward moving middle block) where you are blocking across your centre to the same side as your front leg, but with the back hand (essentially). The point is the hip rotation is going in the opposite direction here, and probably requires you to pull up a little on the front foot in order to make the hip rotation work properly.




I'm sure you would be correct for attacking the extremities, like arms, but if you are attacking the head, then you've got a smaller, more centralised target area to work with, and it never hurts to be able to shiim "to" the centre line, rather than cutting through it as you do in Cho; or WAY through it, as in Sai.

You are however correct about tagging limbs, as in Master Nonymous' video here;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFTEKUKWyqs#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFTEKUKWyqs#ws)

Though I was given advice once to aim more at the centre and follow through a little bit further. I stand by what I suggested, i.e. using a wooden pole as a target. That will give you exactly how far to come through, as you have to touch either side.




You doing a fantastic job, and I'm sure you're just going to get better and better, as I hope to do also. I'm simply trying to give you some food for thought; just as watching you practice does me.

Darth Arkanus,

may I just say your explanations were very good.  Well done.

Darth Sabre,

as to "narrowing the line" in my thoughts is thusly from my Scottish Backsword and cutlass experience and actually using those weapons aboard ship:  Imagine if you will you are on for now a 30 cm wide plank.  Divide that down the middle.  Your right leg stays on the right side, and your left leg stays on the left side.  BUT, you're only on a 30 cm wide plank ;)  Back when I was training heavily, I'm proud to say I got down to a 6" wide plank (15+/- cm) and was able to keep my balance, while under way ;D it was an amazing experience I'll never forget.

But again, I could easily be wrong in my interpretation. But that is something I also work on now with my Destreza and Scottish Backsword for the Adrian Empire for Renaissance swordsmanship.  That way, no matter how small the area, I can keep my balance.

damn... I really wish I had a good camera like both of you guys do.  I can't wait to start posting videos and hearing all the great constructive criticism back!! ;D Especially since I've NEVER worked with a bo before now with Master Nonymous' TPLA Shii-Cho Saberstaff dulon :D

Alright, then this was the one I was misinterpreting.

Otherwise. I've carefully tried to turn my hips a little more into the strike (and Master Nonymous' picture with the shoulder over the knee was a very useful reminder, thanks a lot!), and it FEELS right at first impression.

You're doing an awesome job & i apologise for creating the misunderstanding.

No apologies needed, saber-brother ... unless you've had an uneasy sleep lately *grin*! Your input still is most welcome.

This is just a sidenote ...

my neighbors in the house asked if it were possible to not only use ONE strip of grass for my training. If you've been following this thread, you know what it did to that particular strip of grass!  ;D

We now have a cross ...  ;D

(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/darthsabre72/009_zpsfbb6c392.jpg)

Btw: this goes along very well with the TPLA Makashi Sun Dog exercise ...

That is awesome!! Great stuff, DS!  ;D

Wear on the grass is clearly an indication of how much effort and time you are putting in!

Awesome job, my Sith brother!

Y'know, on the one hand, I really feel for the dead grass...on the other hand, that picture easily shows the sincere dedication you've put forward in your practice. Big ups, bro.

Hello Saberforum.

It's roughly a year now that I picked up my lightsaber. It's been a great year, and I am very pleased with where I have come so far.

My focus has been on Makashi and Saberstaff recently, but Shii-Cho and this dulon by Master Nonymous is always part of my training routine, though not the center of my (study) attention.

Nevertheless it seems fitting to post this part of today's training here, if not only for sentimental reasons, so as a signal, too, that it's worth "polishing it up" (Darth Arkanus, I hope you forgive me shamelessly annexing one of your favorite terms) and doing the next step here.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAUrIP0_R6E&feature=youtu.be

Awesome Saber-brother!

I do not mind you "quoting" me at all...I'm rather flattered.

Also, the Shii-Cho is looking amazing! You have inspired me yet again, thank you! I shall do a similar think, when I reach the 1 year mark, which will be in May of next year!

Respect to you, Darth Sabre

*Point*

Hello Saberforum.

It has been a while ... 2 years of intensive training as a TPLA Apprentice have passed.

To honor the beginnings here on this forum, I offer this little video.

Have fun and happy sabering!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4ZY5knKS0I

And be sure to visit TerraPrime on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TerraPrimeLightsaberAcademy?fref=ts (https://www.facebook.com/TerraPrimeLightsaberAcademy?fref=ts)

Superbump!! Welcome back, brother! I film tomorrow... :)

Hello Saberland.

(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/darthsabre72/vlcsnap-error385_zpsyh7cwjao.png)

This training collage from a holiday by the sea has become something like a tribute to TPLA. I think it is only fitting to add it to my 'log' here, where it all started.

So here, too. my thanks go out to my tutor, TPLA Knight Jeff Macklin, and TPLA Headmaster Darth Nonymous, for having guided me through the TerraPrime curriculum for the last 3 and a half years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP_njb2ncjg

My journey into lightsaber combat started right here with TPLA Headmaster Nonymous commenting on my very first video.

5 years later, I visited him in Ann Arbor, Michigan, for the first time, closing the circle.

In the video he made me perform the TPLA Shii-Cho dulon, too.

Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwUys4FgThs&feature=player_embedded