Saber Forum

yo - i really want to try out reverse grip, have tried to do research, but not found alot on it, just one video. i have tried to mess around with it a little, and found that strikes are a little limited, and blocking is nigh on impossible. anyone got any ideas? i think it is lumped in with Djem-so as it leaves little room for blocking so is mainly focused on attack, and can be a little off putting. any input into this would be great...

Yeah, DON'T STOP MOVING.

I duel wield reverse always with two initiate bladed sabers, so I can compensate awkward blocking with the extra blade but there are time when it is just better to move out of the way. ;D

yeah, dont stay still. just been reading 5 pages about reverse grip from jan - because i did not search the forum first - duh!
i do intend to just concentrate on reverse grip from now on, i am rather adept at standard grip and switching to and from reverse grip, so if i become adept at this then i will be formidable... (hopefully).

Shien grip isn't all about attacking and blocking, while gripping in reverse. sometimes you will have to switch to standard grip quickly, to get that one critical hit or block. Also remember its more about body movement. but most importantly Just keep practicing. There are also several videos about Shien on youtube.

My only recommendation is to go fast, hard, and not wait for your opponent to react.

I feel reverse grip is just so incredibly difficult and awkward to use as an effective and consistent dueling style on its own that to compensate a user needs to rely more on blunt agility than actual strength or even saber technique.  There just doesn't seem to be enough support to block some of those blows supported by a two-hand or even single-hand grip.

I'd say reverse is good for going in really fast and getting in a quick hit before your opponent can do anything.

Now, duel-wielding, that is, a reverse grip with the other hand using normal grip, I have found, however, can be a very deadly and effective way to duel with, mainly because you have options and you can do some rather incredible parry's.

I'm not much a fan of reverse grip unless I were using maybe a knife or if I wanted to act like a ninja, which isn't often sadly.

I'll try and get a video together of how I make reverse grip work for me.

If dual-wielding I'll reverse grip one saber, or none - usually reverse my weaker hand, parry main hand and strike quick with the off hand.  The benefits I notice are mostly psychological, it's hard to read the strike, but only if you don't consider the limited window in which a reverse grip blow can register.  

Other benefits, it's fast and looks cool.  

if you could do that it would be epic-ly helpful. and probably look cool to boot!

That's what I gather from using reverse grip Shien - the strange angles of the strikes make them difficult to read and react to.  Apart from that, it's rather difficult to use... perhaps not the best choice (especially to start out with) for dueling.

Of course, as Lucien will show you, it's one of those things that if you work HARD at, you can make effective.

That and sometimes you have to change up your goals a little bit to make things work for you... For instance, Master Attoru, I hope you don't mind if I use you as an example....

Master Attoru is a fencer, ergo I'm already dreading reverse grip against him, because of the fact that he knows his stuff on distance (reach) and timing (rhythm) however if I were going to use reverse grip on him I would change up my goals... My goal would not be to play the reach game with him. If you try to play Master Attoru's game you will lose, because you are using a different game piece. I would drop back draw him in and make him try to use his reach to end the fight... which is what he will do anyways if he is using his fencing experience. Then I will use the reverse grip, and my knowledge of body changes to move in and get within striking distance for the reverse grip.... It's a dangerous game to play because it sounds all well and good and all, but Master Attoru can and WILL move to gain the advantage, which is easier for him because he has the reach. It will all make sense when I get the video done.

That being said I will show two different methods of reverse grip... one will be strictly reverse grip... the other will switch between a standard grip and a reverse grip.

That sound quite correct!  As you said though, it's probably easier to show... I caught it all but some people need the visual aspect to really comprehend it.

I so wish you, Artorius and I could get together and make a video.  Our three different methodologies would be awesome to match up, and show different aspects of lightsaber combat.

I would love to watch that video.

I have a feeling that would be quite an epic day to say the least... If you ever decide you want to take a vacation out this way I would love to meet up... Likewise if I ever make it out that way (I never do) lol but if I do I will be sure to hit you guys up!

That being said, I may be in Texas from the May 26 to June 17th time frame, if anyone wants to meet up for a duel. It's tentative, but my parents want to fly my family out there so they can see the youngling.

Definitely, LK. I live near Dallas man, so just lemme know, and I'd love to meet up!

Cool I'm originally from Buffalo... (two hours south of Dallas) so I'd be more than happy to meet up if I make it out that way... Which I will eventually have to do.

Excellent man. I don't mind meeting you half way or something. Looks like I need to step up on my dueling though or you're gonna come down to Tejas and wipe the floor with me lol. I'd be down for just good times too though :)

@ Faa
RG is pretty tough bud. I've been working on it for a couple days now. I have swtiched back to traditional grip because using RG tends to take away a lot of power. I definitely recommend using RG from time to time. But making it the primary way to hold/use the lightsaber is too difficult IMO. Anyone able to master RG:Shien is a better man than I :)

A buddy and i were playing around with "triangle form" mentioned in "I, jedi" its an interesting idea, basically one hand grips the hilt in a reverse grip near the emitter, and the other hand rides the pommel to act as a lever to shift attacks and momentum. Its interesting, and provides a great defense down low, and even to the midsectiion, but up high its horrible, a lot of work to get the blade up without reversing grip.

The antazi jedi/pseudo sith that kills corran's grandfather used it. As did the leader of the jenseerai. Something else to play around with maybe when working on a shien reverse grip?

by no means do i intend to just stick with reverse grip, i would just like to start my duels with it, and switch between that and standard grip. i just want to be able to make as much use of an unorthadox method whenever i can as a tactile advantage over my adversary, and this way i think no two duels will ever be the same, therefore keeping them on their toes....

Lucien, i would love to see you using a single saber reverse grip! i have found a few videos of yours on youtube, and while i would not like to duel you (i'm good, but not THAT good) i would love to train under you.

Quit spoiling things I'm doing with books I haven't read yet lol!

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You can totally stick with strictly reverse grip... you just have to change up your objectives a bit... I'll show you in my video.

Also thank you! I am flattered when people admire my sparring, my biggest goal is to not get a big ego from it all. I am only as good as the time I put into training... Anyone can get to that level, in some regards we all just add our own personal flair to it. Which is what makes martial arts great. Especially with lightsabers!!!! Maybe I'll get a friend of mine who is training under me now to come on and tell you guys what that is like. hehe...

@ some point i will stick up a little video of me utilizing reverse grip, maybe you guys could give me some pointers? also my next saber will be a dominix v3, as i feel the choke points will help me greatly for this form. the saber i have (blue lib) i tend to find my hand slips alot.

Just reverse gripped my Aeon for a bit to confirm that those choke points work wonders.  It's normally the saber I keep in a standard grip, that might have to change.

I feel ya man. I also have a blue Liberator and find my hand can slip in RG. Luckily my hands are starting to callice and the grooves don't tear my hands up anymore. It's funny you mention the Dominix v3, cuz I asked my wife to pick my next saber since I can't decide and she picked the Dv3 lol. She said the other ones looked like they had too much going on lol. Oh well, fully loaded the saber will be almost $275. And I plan to do some weathering to it to give it a battle worn look...any way back on topic, I think the Dv3 would work great for RG!

Videos always help online... we can see what you're doing and try to give pointers on it.

My buddy is going to use sports wrap on his liberator to mitigate the slips... but the Dominix V3 is very nice.

i have a dominix v3 inbound i might play with a reversed grip on, instead of sports wrap though im using leather lacing to wrap the lower portion of the hilt in a knife like hilt wrapping

Sweet man! I wanna see pics of that for sure! It would be awesome to have a Kota inspired hilt like from TFU cuz that would provide nice grip...and by the way, looking at his movements, Starkiller may start with a reverse grip, but I would say 90% of his moves end up being flipped over like normal. He is a powerful one handed swinger using his off hand as a nice anchor on some power downward slashes and crosses, but for the most part his moves all look normal. Now this is not to say you can't include some RG which I think was the main goal anyways, but for Starkiller specifically, he just starts in RG.

I'll tell you what, I have a photographic memory and I want to use his animations to create my own version of Sith Shien, :) But i'm only sparingly using RG and not starting my stance in such way. This should be interesting b/c his quick behind the back spin, slash up/block, then swing across move is SUPER nice and I look forward to smacking myself in the leg with my saber :)

sounds like that will be painful to learn lol.

i would have stuck a video up by now, but my cam's batteries are dead. that might have something to do with the fact that i keep nicking all the batteries in the house for my saber - i use it sooo much it dulls after two days.
i'm becoming smoother in changing my grip from RG to standard, and dueled my freind the other day (who usually wins) and i kept the advantage all the way because i kept switching.

lucien, wheres that video, man? lol....

All but one of my sparring partners cancelled on me Sunday, so I was left with no camera men, and little motivation to actually film lol!

I'll try to get something up soon, but it just takes me a while to get people assembled. I do apologize.

dont apologise dude, its ok! you are doing something for me without gaining anything, so dont panic. i wish i could get to the usa for a few days, i would love to meet up with you and have you kick my ass, then give me a few pointers. pity that having three children syphon every little bit of money i have lol. although i'm trying to train one now...
http://www.facebook.com/# (http://www.facebook.com/#)!/photo.php?v=3621255973850  < copy and paste into browser!

Yea, I'm excited to see what you put together bro! It'll be fun to take aspects of your reverse grip and add it into my routines!

This may sound stupid, but I am taking a Jedi approach to the "Sith Shien" application that Starkiller uses and creating a lightside application. I'm calling it "Sentinel Shien" and it utilizes a normal grip and executes quick, aggressive strikes and being completely unpredictable. This application also requires the user of SS to be strong in one-handed combat with the off hand primarily for an anchor on power strikes. There is also an emphasis on using components of Soresu in Sentinel Shien. I prolly won't post anything on this unless someone is actually interested, but I do feel a tad more special to "create" my own application of various lightsaber Forms :)

No definitely, and most Jedi adapted the forms to apply to their specific physiology and philosophy.

dude, i'm ALWAYS interested. post something, definitely.

right. managed to scavange some batteries to put in my camera. here is a video of my reverse grip technique, where i make use of standard grip as well. and yes, i messed up at the end, hence my annoyance, which is clear lol!

feel free to critisise, give pointers, or tell me im downright rubbish if you think so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khEOpR2F-zg# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khEOpR2F-zg#)

Not bad mate, i like how you change it up, i still have to work on that bloody behind the back spin, i forsee using reverse grip a lot more in the near future with my dominix simply because of how easly it naturally fits in the hand compared to my guardian.

Do another one in the dark wiith the blade lit ^_^

ok - back in ten minutes...

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand done. as requested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gelltJc0tcA# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gelltJc0tcA#)

brilliant **lightside points gained**

looks pretty epic in the dark

Looks pretty smooth, now translating that to sparring is the hard part... If I watched you duel I could tell much more... but I already know right now I would try and wait for you to be mid grip switch, and I would possibly be able to make you falter if I attacked during that time.

That being said, that's a lot of "ifs" and ifs are always iffy.

So it definitely looks good, just remember when you're practicing by yourself... Imagine there are people actually attacking you.

Excellent man! Looks real good and with practice man you're only gonna get better and better!

Sweet man, I'm glad you're interested! I will post something in the near future for Sentinel Shien once I've gotten stronger going one handed and at least got one kata to show you guys! Though I did get to duel with my brother a little tonight and it went well...but hot damn am I gonna get some full padded gloves...My MMA gloves aren't covering my fingertips all the way lol.