The two worst Jedi Knights in the History of Star Wars

[ThreadJack]

I agree with you on that point.  I think the scene was done this way to make him seem like a powerhouse, so you really get a feel for his might... I just think it was poorly planned.  Here are two reasons why I don't like this idea:

1.  If you're going to have this guy come barreling out of the gate to wipe out two Jedi Masters instantly, at least make it visually believable.  As it goes you just see Palpatine basically walk up and stab them... I'm sorry but unless he used some kind of "Force paralysis" ability it just seems dumb.  At least if he was a whirlwind of darkness (like a true counterpart to Yoda) you could excuse it.

2.  Once again let me explain my feelings that there is more to these people than their massive power in the Force or lightsaber abilities.  Think about it - why was Yoda great?  Cause he was a beastly powerful Force user?  Or a master duelist?  No, he was great because he was wise beyond measure, and it was exactly this wisdom that allowed him to save the galaxy through Luke.  Similarly, Palpatine didn't need to be a "super-powerful Sith Lord".  His power was in deception and subtlety - he was SMART.  He turned the freakin Jedi Order on its head, and gained absolute control of an unsuspecting government.  This was done through ingenious planning, not super Force powers.  Making him and Yoda the "superpowers" of their respective sides basically trashes this idea, and essentially dumbs down the movie to appeal to the average viewer.  Sorry, but I'm a bit disappointed.

Oh look, I went on another prequel rant.  Sorry bout that

Quoted. For. Truth.

[Duff Man]

This is true and it is upsetting that they couldn't have choreographed a better fight scene... a la Bruce Lee's "Fists of Fury."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBz99aAo034#ws

One of my favorite Movies! Although it is kinda funny considering I am studying a Japanese art (Sogobujutsu). But Come on it was BRUCE LEE!

[RLYHYPERGUY]

I'm just going to consider the movie to be the abridged version of the novel.

[Necrophagist68]

XD))))))))))))))))

hahahahahaha I've laughed so hard that I got tears rolling out of my eyes !!!!!!!! Thanks for this one !!!!!

[Goldleader]

I think sidious was relying on anakin to come so he could force him to choose his ultimatum.
not that i think mace couldnt beat sidious fair and square, if that were the case i think it would have been a much longer battle, but i think sidious felt anakins presence getting closer and forfeited the duel, made himself look more pathetic. but yeah.. kolar and tiin, idk what happened. at best i could say sidious was being random and through everybody off guard with his speed and precision. but you have to think, battling droids is one thing, and yoda, obi-wan and anakin who was not to be trusted, are the only jedi who have ever faced sith since their reappearance and lived. all of which were absent at the time. but they were jedi masters, they should have done a little betterXP

[Darth Severus]

Funny I was drinking way too much on New Years eve watching star wars after my wife went to sleep and while watching this scene my only thought was I bet my wife my cat and I could have been a greater help to Mace.

[Master Rel]

The crazy thing is that the extra jedi were brought along because they were bad ass.

Partly the fault of the writers and director for killing them off quickly to show the power of the Emperor...I think the same result of showing his strength with the dark side would have been shown with a bit of extended battle with all the jedi, using his evil powers to win...force lightning frying a saber for example, taunting, pushing, etc. use their numbers against them...let the jedi get a couple of shots in, but let them be trickery and getting mostly robes and cloth...then getting picked off.

Shame the writer and director were not interested in the long term viewing pleasure of the real fans.

[Master Nero Attoru]

The crazy thing is that the extra jedi were brought along because they were bad ass.

Partly the fault of the writers and director for killing them off quickly to show the power of the Emperor...I think the same result of showing his strength with the dark side would have been shown with a bit of extended battle with all the jedi, using his evil powers to win...force lightning frying a saber for example, taunting, pushing, etc. use their numbers against them...let the jedi get a couple of shots in, but let them be trickery and getting mostly robes and cloth...then getting picked off.

Shame the writer and director were not interested in the long term viewing pleasure of the real fans.

Exactly.  I always attributed the powers of Yoda and the Emperor to be more in terms of intellect - Yoda's quiet wisdom vs the Emperor's cunning manipulations.  Instead of showcasing these facets, they just used the easy way out and made them both Force powerhouses.  I mean, it lets Lucas shove more special effects into the movie so more people would come see the movie right?  Why not? 

[Master Rel]

What a perfect opportunity for one of those crazy slow motion scenes right?

Where the slow goes real fast for a second and then back to slow...this would be perfect to show the dire strength and power of the dark side...maybe after speeding past a jedi and killing him the backlash of the force slams him in the chest and he grimaces and winces in pain...then moves on to the rest of the fight.

[Darth Unobtanium]

Damn, that is sad. Even I react faster than that.

[Lunarrage]

I can respect everyone's comments on the scene from the movie. But let's expand the thought pool a little bit. Back when I was teaching fencing, there were quite a few very good fighters on the field. However, I had managed to take 8 to 10 people single handedly. Many times when we had our melees (everyone divided in to two teams and we fight in a large battle) I would cassually walk the line and take out the entire line. Thus, such a scene is possible, however it is quite foolish for a single guy to dive in like that and not get hit. I would have used a different tactic myself. Divide and conquer is my best simple description of what I do with  multiple opponents.

Further, if any one has played the StarWars Saga RPG (the pen and paper - like D&D) then we can be aware of the many skills and abilities that are not readily apparant. One factor in particular are force points and destiny points that allow players to succeed with some pretty amazing feats. Moreover, you cannot destiny point a destiny point. Thus I would interpret the scene like this: Palpatine gets off a surprise round and destiny points a full round of attacks. Because it is surprise, the others do not get a partial action and are flat footed. They then cannot defend against Palpatines attacks and Palpatine lands a few natural 20 rolls in there.
Thoughts?

[Master Nero Attoru]

I can respect everyone's comments on the scene from the movie. But let's expand the thought pool a little bit. Back when I was teaching fencing, there were quite a few very good fighters on the field. However, I had managed to take 8 to 10 people single handedly. Many times when we had our melees (everyone divided in to two teams and we fight in a large battle) I would cassually walk the line and take out the entire line. Thus, such a scene is possible, however it is quite foolish for a single guy to dive in like that and not get hit. I would have used a different tactic myself. Divide and conquer is my best simple description of what I do with  multiple opponents.

Further, if any one has played the StarWars Saga RPG (the pen and paper - like D&D) then we can be aware of the many skills and abilities that are not readily apparant. One factor in particular are force points and destiny points that allow players to succeed with some pretty amazing feats. Moreover, you cannot destiny point a destiny point. Thus I would interpret the scene like this: Palpatine gets off a surprise round and destiny points a full round of attacks. Because it is surprise, the others do not get a partial action and are flat footed. They then cannot defend against Palpatines attacks and Palpatine lands a few natural 20 rolls in there.
Thoughts?

All good points.  I think the main thought here is the visual aspect - certainly Palpatine has the Force power to pull off such a surprise attack, but the pacing of those first few kills just comes off as unrealistic.  The Jedi had their weapons drawn for a reason... they were obviously anticipating trouble.

I still say they could have had him shoot forward in a shadowy blur, with heads rolling and Jedi falling everywhere.  It's within the realm of possibility (considering Palpatine's strength in the Force seemingly rivaling Yoda) and would have allowed us to suspend our disbelief a bit further.  Heck, even the fight with Mace was super slow (being as Sam Jackson wanted to do it himself), despite descriptions of his Vaapad being as blindingly fast.

[Goldleader]

I think there is a factor to the style of vaapad that may not always be super fast. just a thought, but it seems watching the films and how he fights,
 vaapad seem like a style that uses a lot of twists, spins and uses the power of those to create attacks that alternate between strength and speed in order to throw the opponent off, confuse him/her how to properly defend and brace their footing, and back/rapidly advance on him/her. this is probably where the "warning: may stray close to the darkside" factor comes in with how hard pressing the attack of vapaad and i think in some scenes we see mace steadily trying to keep his control

[amizzer]

Meh, Agen Kolar and Saesee Tinn needed to die anyway. If they didn't get killed in Palpatine's chambers, then they would have definitely been eliminated from Order 66. 



Cheers!!
Amizzer

[Master Nero Attoru]

I think there is a factor to the style of vaapad that may not always be super fast. just a thought, but it seems watching the films and how he fights,
 vaapad seem like a style that uses a lot of twists, spins and uses the power of those to create attacks that alternate between strength and speed in order to throw the opponent off, confuse him/her how to properly defend and brace their footing, and back/rapidly advance on him/her. this is probably where the "warning: may stray close to the darkside" factor comes in with how hard pressing the attack of vapaad and i think in some scenes we see mace steadily trying to keep his control

Yeah I gotcha there.  Then again, it might just be Samuel L trying to keep his control... since he has no real swordsmanship experience haha.  Don't get me wrong, he's a total badass, but come on... let the stunt people do their jobs.

I mean it wouldn't be as noticeable if you didn't have such epic, fast-paced duels in the very same movie (Anakin vs Dooku, Yoda vs Sidious, Anakin vs Obi-Wan).  My main problem isn't even Mace's part in the duel, it's pretty much just that beginning part where the other Jedi die... not debating the necessity of it, just the execution (heh heh, see what I did there?)