Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker Photos: Meet the Characters and Go on Set

[Darth Logos]

It's a movie but in all seriousness, it's like the beginning of A New Hope when Leia was running away from the Star Destroyer after we're told that a band of rebels stole the plans. We didn't know about how they got the plans until 39 years later. Lots of movies and script leave a lot of things out for fans like us to theorize about which is more or less why they did that

The Rebels wanted the plans, and they stole the plans, because the Empire had to have plans in order to construct said Death Star. This was easily fleshed out verbally. Rogue One was merely the story of the how. The story of R1 could have been told 50 different ways. As long as the Rebels steal the Death Star plans, the plot of ANH would not be affected.

Luke didn't want to be found, so why would he leave a map? From what I gleaned from LEGO TFA, the map was created by some fruit loop aliens that found him (why were they looking?)[more questions].

1) It's implied that Tekka knew Skywalker on a personal level, so Luke left it with him a person he could trust, and not with the old gang who would *immediately* chase him

As previously stated: ALIENS. Why did they give the map to Tekka?

2) Where yes, the books do flesh this out more, from only the movies we can gather that the FO was formed from Imperial remnants, due to the visual references and spoken ones ("Maybe Snoke should have used a clone army"). The movie also very briefly goes over how the NR was de-militarized and going to exremist pacifistic lengths to ensure everyone in the galaxy would "play nice". I actually like this bit because it shows that sometimes you have to fight evil and you cant just expect it to hold your hand because you asked nicely.

Honestly the FO is a pale and pathetic copy of Darth Caedus' (aka Jacen Solo) New Order, assembled from the Imperial remnant. Not sure what references you speak of, but I don't recall any of this from the movies. I always liked Tony Stark's definition: "Peace is having a bigger gun than the other guy."

3) The FO, being built on the foundation of a tyrranical authoritarian mega-empire; I would imagine has capable spies that could figure out why the Resistance's most capable combat pilot flew into a desert in the middle of nowhere alone.

In order for you to know who's flying, you'd have to know where he's flying from (most likely Resistance HQ). If you had this info, why not screw what he's after and just blow your enemy to hell and be done with it?

As for the premise, it always seemed to me that Luke probably initially left confused and pained from the academy, but still somewhat hopeful he would find some meaning in the original jedi temple, that he would come back if needed, but when he arrived, his pain and regret festered, he grew distaste for the Jedi and resolved to live out his life there.

These are all my personal takes on it that are more than open to interpretation.

This isn't a terrible idea. But from what I've put together, the fans are far more capable, than the official writers, of putting together story ideas that actually make sense.

[Darth Tepes]

Luke didn't want to be found, so why would he leave a map? From what I gleaned from LEGO TFA, the map was created by some fruit loop aliens that found him (why were they looking?)[more questions].
As previously stated: ALIENS. Why did they give the map to Tekka?

It wasn't Luke leaving a map to where to find him....but the first Jedi Temple.  The Resistance were the ones that kept saying its to Luke.   Luke left it to Lor San Tekka because he was a leader of the Church of the Force.  Who better to guard such an artifact.  Think of it this way:  You have a friend who asks you to meet him at a restaurant.  You know he's going to be there, you've heard of the restaurant but don't know where it is.  So you look up the directions to the place, not the person.  But is someone asks where you are going "I'm going to meet *Blank*.   Nutshell, the map was to the First Jedi Temple which happened to be where Luke was.  Now....the fact the other half of the map just so happened to be in R2's keeping was the out there.  seriously, I just don't think they had a set plan

[PsychoSith]

In order for you to know who's flying, you'd have to know where he's flying from (most likely Resistance HQ). If you had this info, why not screw what he's after and just blow your enemy to hell and be done with it?

Because they already had SK base. They could have destroyed them early, but every incarnation of the Empire is marred by arrogance. If they knew Poe would be going after the map, it might make more sense to them to let him lead the FO to the map where they could acquire it, use it toward their own ends then just destroy the resistance anyway. They also might have thought without the NR the resistance would just fold. It's not sound military tactics, but neither is letting an outdated shuttle code slip into the fleet just hours from a big surprise attack. As Luke said "Your arrogance is your weakness"

[Darth Logos]

It wasn't Luke leaving a map to where to find him....but the first Jedi Temple.  The Resistance were the ones that kept saying its to Luke.   Luke left it to Lor San Tekka because he was a leader of the Church of the Force.  Who better to guard such an artifact.  Think of it this way:  You have a friend who asks you to meet him at a restaurant.  You know he's going to be there, you've heard of the restaurant but don't know where it is.  So you look up the directions to the place, not the person.  But is someone asks where you are going "I'm going to meet *Blank*.   Nutshell, the map was to the First Jedi Temple which happened to be where Luke was.  Now....the fact the other half of the map just so happened to be in R2's keeping was the out there.  seriously, I just don't think they had a set plan

So what you're saying is that the dopey Ithorian ripoff aliens found the first Jedi Temple for Luke and made him a map, and once Luke had his course set he left the map with Tekka, and then the crap plot of TFA unfolds? This makes more sense then how it was presented in the film. But then there's that whole stupid arc of "this map doesn't match any charted area of the galaxy", but then perfectly lines up with R2's chart? If it didn't match any known chart, how was Luke able to find it? (more questions) Also, just because they had a map to a location that Luke said he was going in search of, doesn't guarantee that he stayed put. The dialogue points to this being a sure thing. Had they played it that there is a better chance that he won't be there, but it's the only lead they have, it would have been a bit more realistic.

Because they already had SK base. They could have destroyed them early, but every incarnation of the Empire is marred by arrogance. If they knew Poe would be going after the map, it might make more sense to them to let him lead the FO to the map where they could acquire it, use it toward their own ends then just destroy the resistance anyway. They also might have thought without the NR the resistance would just fold. It's not sound military tactics, but neither is letting an outdated shuttle code slip into the fleet just hours from a big surprise attack. As Luke said "Your arrogance is your weakness"

Again, how did they even know about the map? The NR was nowhere to be found in the fight, so yeah....the Resistance folded.

Also, "It's an older code, but it checks out." Not outdated. Old codes are worthless, that's how you get caught. But also, it wasn't a shuttle code, but rather a clearance code to access the area of operations, i.e. the DS2 construction site. More than likely, the Empire wanted a select few to know about the operation. Fewer mouths = fewer leaks.

And Luke's line was "Your overconfidence is your weakness." ("Your faith in your friends is yours.")

[Darth Tepes]

So what you're saying is that the dopey Ithorian ripoff aliens found the first Jedi Temple for Luke and made him a map, and once Luke had his course set he left the map with Tekka, and then the crap plot of TFA unfolds? This makes more sense then how it was presented in the film. But then there's that whole stupid arc of "this map doesn't match any charted area of the galaxy", but then perfectly lines up with R2's chart? If it didn't match any known chart, how was Luke able to find it? (more questions) Also, just because they had a map to a location that Luke said he was going in search of, doesn't guarantee that he stayed put. The dialogue points to this being a sure thing. Had they played it that there is a better chance that he won't be there, but it's the only lead they have, it would have been a bit more realistic.
Again, how did they even know about the map? The NR was nowhere to be found in the fight, so yeah....the Resistance folded.

Here's where the whole 'have to look outside the movie* crap comes in.  If I remember correctly Palpatine had the map and stripped the First temple of all its artifacts.  When R2 accessed the Empire's main frame in ANH he found the map. 

[PsychoSith]

Again, how did they even know about the map? The NR was nowhere to be found in the fight, so yeah....the Resistance folded.

Also, "It's an older code, but it checks out." Not outdated. Old codes are worthless, that's how you get caught. But also, it wasn't a shuttle code, but rather a clearance code to access the area of operations, i.e. the DS2 construction site. More than likely, the Empire wanted a select few to know about the operation. Fewer mouths = fewer leaks.

And Luke's line was "Your overconfidence is your weakness." ("Your faith in your friends is yours.")

My bad on the quote, got the meaning right though. Been awhile since i sat down and watched RoTJ.

My point with the map is every authoritarian government that we have reference to is adept at espionage. Its not surprising at all to me they knew what the resistance was up to. Not sure what you mean about the Resistance folding? I had meant the FO mightve thought they would disband after the NR got spanked, but they did not hence the arrogance overconfidence line.

As for the code, I'm aware of what it was for it was poor wording on my part. My argument is they shouldn't have had re-usable codes at all, each transport should have had a one-time use code for security. Or just not allow unscheduled vessels in at all. My whole point is that the Empire (FO as well) is arrogant and have shot themselves in the foot before.

[Darth Logos]

Here's where the whole 'have to look outside the movie* crap comes in.  If I remember correctly Palpatine had the map and stripped the First temple of all its artifacts.  When R2 accessed the Empire's main frame in ANH he found the map. 

R2's part was a galactic map with a convenient hole that fits BB's secret map to Luke/Jedi Temple. So that doesn't fit your theory.

My bad on the quote, got the meaning right though. Been awhile since i sat down and watched RoTJ.

Ditto. My POV on overconfidence doesn't equate to arrogance, so that's why I corrected.

My point with the map is every authoritarian government that we have reference to is adept at espionage. Its not surprising at all to me they knew what the resistance was up to. Not sure what you mean about the Resistance folding? I had meant the FO mightve thought they would disband after the NR got spanked, but they did not hence the arrogance overconfidence line.

No doubts that the FO has its ways of getting intel. Even bounty hunting rewards. It paid off in their search for BB8. (Refresh my memory, they found out about the droid after Poe's interigation?)

As for the Resistance folding, they did fall apart because that dumpy little fighting force was equivalent to the US depending on Guam to fight Germany in WWII. It stood utterly no chance of true victory; merely a thorn in the enemy's side. And the whole notion that the Republic completely demilitarized to foster peace is beyond ridiculously naive. (Not on part of anybody in this conversation, just from the writers.)

As for the code, I'm aware of what it was for it was poor wording on my part. My argument is they shouldn't have had re-usable codes at all, each transport should have had a one-time use code for security. Or just not allow unscheduled vessels in at all. My whole point is that the Empire (FO as well) is arrogant and have shot themselves in the foot before.

I always understood it to be a code that was on the verge of obsolescence. Still good, but only just barely. Like a driver's license that has 3 days to expiration. But then you also have to remember that our society no longer has the same understanding of security that we did back in the 80s. Case in point: Why wasn't every alarm on SKB set off for even the attempt at deactivating the shields from a remote terminal versus at the command center. It shouldn't have even made a difference that they used Phasma's authorization. Access should have been locked out, and a security detail should have been instantly sent to the offending terminal to investigate the abnormality, NTM why TF a high ranking officer took it on herself to deactivate the shields. Security has never made a lot of sense in the movies. (Hint hint: why did we lose power at a tractor beam site?)

[PsychoSith]

I always understood it to be a code that was on the verge of obsolescence. Still good, but only just barely. Like a driver's license that has 3 days to expiration. But then you also have to remember that our society no longer has the same understanding of security that we did back in the 80s. Case in point: Why wasn't every alarm on SKB set off for even the attempt at deactivating the shields from a remote terminal versus at the command center. It shouldn't have even made a difference that they used Phasma's authorization. Access should have been locked out, and a security detail should have been instantly sent to the offending terminal to investigate the abnormality, NTM why TF a high ranking officer took it on herself to deactivate the shields. Security has never made a lot of sense in the movies. (Hint hint: why did we lose power at a tractor beam site?)

Very true

[Darth Tepes]

R2's part was a galactic map with a convenient hole that fits BB's secret map to Luke/Jedi Temple. So that doesn't fit your theory.

It isn't my Theory...its the official explanation....

"We had the idea about R2 plugging into the information base of the Death Star, and that's how he was able to get the full map and find where the Jedi temples are," The Force Awakens co-writer Michael Arndt explained to EW in the aftermath of the film's release.

Abrams added that they didn't want the film to get bogged down in "how shell happened 30 years ago".

"But the idea was that in that scene where R2 plugged in, he downloaded the archives of the Empire, which was referenced by Kylo Ren," he said.



Full Article:  https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a828709/r2-d2-luke-skywalker-map-star-wars-the-force-awakens/

[Darth Logos]

It isn't my Theory...its the official explanation....

"We had the idea about R2 plugging into the information base of the Death Star, and that's how he was able to get the full map and find where the Jedi temples are," The Force Awakens co-writer Michael Arndt explained to EW in the aftermath of the film's release.

Abrams added that they didn't want the film to get bogged down in "how shell happened 30 years ago".

"But the idea was that in that scene where R2 plugged in, he downloaded the archives of the Empire, which was referenced by Kylo Ren," he said.

I thought you were going on that what was shown in the movie was merely a simplistic visual that showed the piece being more laid over the whole in order to verify the data. You had my hopes up, and then I read the article.

1) I doubt that a droid that has a limited number of saved hyperspace coordinates would have enough memory to store the whole of the Imperial Archive.
2) Another frelling useless tie-in to ANH. (Why didn't we just call it Abrams' New Hack?)
3) Why the hell would BB be so stupid as to think that a random droid he's never met has the corresponding missing part of a map?
4) Didn't BB find R2 when he first got to Resistance HQ? If so, then R2 didn't wake up at the ta-da nick of time. He woke up at the end of the movie.
5) Tekka "found" the map, it wasn't entrusted to him by Luke.

[Darth Tepes]

I thought you were going on that what was shown in the movie was merely a simplistic visual that showed the piece being more laid over the whole in order to verify the data. You had my hopes up, and then I read the article.

1) I doubt that a droid that has a limited number of saved hyperspace coordinates would have enough memory to store the whole of the Imperial Archive.
2) Another frelling useless tie-in to ANH. (Why didn't we just call it Abrams' New Hack?)
3) Why the hell would BB be so stupid as to think that a random droid he's never met has the corresponding missing part of a map?
4) Didn't BB find R2 when he first got to Resistance HQ? If so, then R2 didn't wake up at the ta-da nick of time. He woke up at the end of the movie.
5) Tekka "found" the map, it wasn't entrusted to him by Luke.

Yep..there it is again...the having to go outside for explanations.  BB-8 did know of R2 from C-3po.  3po was actually in charge of all the droids and that is one of the reasons for BB-8 not being found by the Resistance.  3po forgot to install a homing beacon in BB-8.  From what was also said when BB-8 spoke to R2 after he took the cover off R2 heard him and started going through his charts and just so happened to find the right one at that moment.   Even though I don't hate TFA as much as some even that part was a little over the top.  Again, it seems like they just didn't have a concreate plan...just slap Star Wars on something and the masses will eat it up. 

[Darth Logos]

Yep..there it is again...the having to go outside for explanations.  BB-8 did know of R2 from C-3po.  3po was actually in charge of all the droids and that is one of the reasons for BB-8 not being found by the Resistance.  3po forgot to install a homing beacon in BB-8.  From what was also said when BB-8 spoke to R2 after he took the cover off R2 heard him and started going through his charts and just so happened to find the right one at that moment.   Even though I don't hate TFA as much as some even that part was a little over the top. 

'Nother thought: If BB8 is a Resistance droid, he'd already be familiar with the base. How the hell had he not run into R2 already?

Again, it seems like they just didn't have a concreate plan...just slap Star Wars on something and the masses will eat it up. 

Sad and true.

[Darth Tepes]

'Nother thought: If BB8 is a Resistance droid, he'd already be familiar with the base. How the hell had he not run into R2 already?
Sad and true.

He had...but apparently R2 had shut down when Luke left....so it had been at least 5 years

[Darth Logos]

He had...but apparently R2 had shut down when Luke left....so it had been at least 5 years

I mean, where were Poe and BB hanging out if not at Resistance HQ? 3PO had said R2 had been running on "low-power mode". Not sure if you were interchanging that "shut down." Either way, BB hadn't run into him before the events of TFA?

[Darth Tepes]

I mean, where were Poe and BB hanging out if not at Resistance HQ? 3PO had said R2 had been running on "low-power mode". Not sure if you were interchanging that "shut down." Either way, BB hadn't run into him before the events of TFA?

He doesn't interact with anyone, move or do anything other than be still.  I know technically he's not shut down...but for all the good he does in  TFA he might as well be shut down.     Here is a bit from the TFA Novelization:

 THE SEARCH HAD taken BB-8 some time, but he finally found what he was looking for. Or rather, who. Or maybe both, since an intelligent droid technically qualified as both a who and a what. In the dark, dusty storeroom he rolled over to the R2 unit and beeped a greeting, the transmission sequence too rapid and too exhaustive for any human to follow. It didn’t matter. There was no response from the immobile R2 unit.
 BB-8 tried again, utilizing a different droid language. When that also failed, he moved forward and gave the other mechanical a forceful nudge. Like everything else, that too failed to generate a response.
 Observing the unsuccessful interaction, C-3PO came forward out of the shadows. “You’re wasting your time, I’m afraid. It is very doubtful that Artoo would have the rest of the map in his backup data.” When BB-8 queried the protocol droid, C-3PO responded without hesitation.
“He’s been locked down in self-imposed low-power mode. He just hasn’t been the same since Master Luke went away.”