Kenobi Series Thoughts

[Lord_S_Gray]

Karm, TD, LSG and several others have written stories outside of the Skywalker Saga that feel as true to Star Wars as anything that came from Lucas himself.

Thank TR!

Yep Fifth episode was better, the flashback a good way to unite Kenobi and Vader, and it explained why Third Sister knew who Vader was, sorted out her backstory/motives etc.

But still some frustrating issues in making the Imperials looks dumb.  Why charge into the breach with just guns not grenades or behind shields of some kind.  They knew exactly where the rebel base was, why were there not TIEs patrolling in case a ship got out, surely they could track any vessel that left that exact spot from the Destroyer? Must we assume utter hubris and lack of value for Stromtrooper lives (presumably because they want Kenobi alive so didn’t just fire their massive gun into the rebels?) in their approach? 

Vader showed how much of a power house he could be, we need to assume he could only bring down one ship that way (quite reasonable in my mind using the Force is not without strain)…and assume he was so blinded by intent to get to Kenobi he didn’t sense there were no people on board with the Force….still I’m having to come up with justifications myself to fill these holes....

These things would’ve been more forgivable had not episode 3 and 4 endings set poor precedents. As TR says Star Wars is fantasy but also always felt real – space travel is fast but hyper drives break down when you need them most, the Force is powerful, but doesn’t make you immune to a blaster.

Each episode is so close to being great on every other level that it’s really disappointing when these things come up at the end of each episode (a very clear pattern now), mostly it seems to allow Kenobi and co to 'escape' to the next location they need to dumb down the Empire.

[Taegin Roan]

Agreed. Still some issues, and each episode is so close to being great, but Ep. 5 is definitely a step in the right direction.

[DarthRondoudou]

Many good things in the episode. The flashbacks, despite being visibly filmed nowadays, were interesting. Reva is still quite good. I had made the exact hypothesis as to why she knew who he was.
But still, so many plot holes it's hard not to think they want us to play whack a mole.
And... I thought vador broke her saber in halves? yet it's reunited at the end?
And this serve to show that their spinning thingy is ridicule and useless.
Once again they showed Vader as a very powerful being. So there's that. But ugh still.

Points for everyone.

[Maestro Jones]

And... I thought vador broke her saber in halves? yet it's reunited at the end?

It actually had a quick release coupler on it.  Only 35 credits from Ultrasabers.

[DarthRondoudou]

It actually had a quick release coupler on it.  Only 35 credits from Ultrasabers.

Point for the chuckle.

[TheDutchman]

Thanks TR^^  As I said, I really appreciate your feeding, not to mention continuing to read our Forumverse stories 

Now back to the series!

OK, I agree with the consensus that Episode 5 WAS an improvement 

The GOOD: I really enjoyed the Obi/Ani dueling scenes (despite some fairly shoddy de-aging CGI, but that's just a nitpick).  And seeing Vader go full-on "Starkiller" with the ship was fantastic; a good reminder that he IS a POWERFUL Forceuser.  Also, his playing with Reva/3rd Sister was demonstrative of his bad@ss credentials 

The BAD: The fact that the story STILL is full of contrivances: Leia has to go find/fix LOLA and the blast doors (just to give her something to do).  Storm Troopers STILL can't hit the broad side of a barn (but, hey, precedent).  Why did the Imperials even bother with the heavy blaster to open the doors when all it took was Reva cutting it w/ her lightsaber?  And why the insistence of overly-complicated "ploys" just to have a payoff moment even though there were better options available e.g. the debacle with Obi-Wan and Reva NOT-teaming-up against Vader or the reveal that--UN-SURPRISE!--the Grand Inquisitor wasn't really dead because "hate does wonders to keep you alive."  This all comes off as lazy writing.  I would've had it that Vader arrives, Reva and Obi-Wan "surprise" him by teaming up...only to have the Grand Inquisitor appear and even the odds.  And I would've had an Imperial contingent attack/secure the blast doors, you know, the ONLY point of egress and escape...where maybe Leia & LOLA could hack into the Imperial database to usurp fire control, which could be used to hold off the Imperial's/Vader while they attempted to set up their decoy.  To me, this would've made for much better drama.  Oh, and Tala's death was as tragic as it was...sorry, who was I talking about just now? 

Again: poor writing.

The UGLY: I really have to reiterate this: TOO MANY CONTRIVANCES 

OK, now for shout-outs:

Thank TR!

Yep Fifth episode was better, the flashback a good way to unite Kenobi and Vader, and it explained why Third Sister knew who Vader was, sorted out her backstory/motives etc.

But still some frustrating issues in making the Imperials looks dumb.  Why charge into the breach with just guns not grenades or behind shields of some kind.  They knew exactly where the rebel base was, why were there not TIEs patrolling in case a ship got out, surely they could track any vessel that left that exact spot from the Destroyer? Must we assume utter hubris and lack of value for Stromtrooper lives (presumably because they want Kenobi alive so didn’t just fire their massive gun into the rebels?) in their approach? 

Vader showed how much of a power house he could be, we need to assume he could only bring down one ship that way (quite reasonable in my mind using the Force is not without strain)…and assume he was so blinded by intent to get to Kenobi he didn’t sense there were no people on board with the Force….still I’m having to come up with justifications myself to fill these holes....

These things would’ve been more forgivable had not episode 3 and 4 endings set poor precedents. As TR says Star Wars is fantasy but also always felt real – space travel is fast but hyper drives break down when you need them most, the Force is powerful, but doesn’t make you immune to a blaster.

Each episode is so close to being great on every other level that it’s really disappointing when these things come up at the end of each episode (a very clear pattern now), mostly it seems to allow Kenobi and co to 'escape' to the next location they need to dumb down the Empire.

Pretty much ALL of LSG's spot-on assessments^^

Many good things in the episode. The flashbacks, despite being visibly filmed nowadays, were interesting. Reva is still quite good. I had made the exact hypothesis as to why she knew who he was.
But still, so many plot holes it's hard not to think they want us to play whack a mole.
And... I thought vador broke her saber in halves? yet it's reunited at the end?
And this serve to show that their spinning thingy is ridicule and useless.
Once again they showed Vader as a very powerful being. So there's that. But ugh still.

Points for everyone.

Everything DR said but ESPECIALLY the highlighted part 

It actually had a quick release coupler on it.  Only 35 credits from Ultrasabers.

Wonderful, MJ, wonderful 

Agreed. Still some issues, and each episode is so close to being great, but Ep. 5 is definitely a step in the right direction.

Ultimately, TR succinctly put it perfectly^^

Here's to Episode 6 being the best part (crosses fingers) 

Points for everyone!

[DarthRondoudou]

Very articulated thoughts and I have to agree with your suggestion as to what could have been a really good fight scene =)
Point

[Lord_S_Gray]

>FINAL EPSIODE SPOILERS<

The opening of Star War A New Hope is memorable for showing the vastness of a Star Destroyer bearing down on a Corellian Corvette, pursuing it and capturing it by using cannon and tractor beam.

Apparently this iconic scene was not accurate. Kenobi Episode 6 has shown, along with the Last Jedi, a Star Destroyer cannot in fact successfully pursue even a civilian unarmed vessel with no hyperdrive. Indeed a Star Destroyer appears a mere status symbol of no practical military use, along with Stormtroopers and, I expect, the absent TIE fighters.

Episode 1 the Phantom Menace key moment was the death of Qui-Gon-Jin, Kenobis master, finder of the Chosen one Anakin Skywalker, when stabbed with a lightsaber.  Apparently this too was misleading, being stabbed with a lightsaber in fact is not seriously damaging, and indeed no barrier to teleporting to Tatooine should one wish to.

Obi-Wan Kenobi was supposedly hiding out on Tatooine, but now walking openly on Alderaan and hugging and Imperial Senators (who is openly skeptical of the Empire) daughter, in full view of at least two guards, is no cause for concern of being discovered by the Inquisition or Empire anymore. I mean why would he worry given their inability to defend their own fortress or capture a barely functional ship full of refugees. 

The sad thing was, when I saw Reva had teleported to Tatooine (with what vessel did the Empire leave her one?) clutching her stomach as the only indication of a wound (why does no one check to see if their opponent is dead in this show, perhaps Vader can be excused with Kenobi a subconscious inability to kill his former Master and Brother…) I wasn’t shocked or surprised.  When the Star Destroyer couldn’t catch that rust bucket I wasn’t either.  I should be shocked, but you know what, I’d become used to it.

I have tried to enjoy this series, I applaud some of the moments between the characters, some of the best saber duels and awesome use of the Force we have yet seen in live action, excellent performances with what they had to work with, and great production values.  

There is a LOT to like about this series, shame about the writing.

I look forward to others views on this.

[Taegin Roan]

*FINAL EPISODE SPOILERS*

Again, the lack of travel time is one of the most frustrating things about this show. And it's not that Disney Star Wars doesn't understand that it takes time to travel places (Rogue One where they had to jump to hyperspace in order to avoid the blast on Jedda anyone?), it's just that they conveniently leave it out anytime they can.

If they'd have done something as simple as not made Reva teleport to Tatooine (and yet still somehow end up at the Lars homestead long after Owen and Luke?), and somehow explain that she patched herself up and that there was still a ship for her to use (also, does she even know how to pilot a ship? Not everyone does), then with a little bit of reediting, this entire episode could work. Just make everything that happens between Obi-Wan and Vader take place in the first half of the episode, and then in the second half deal with the Reva stuff. Or better yet, don't include the Reva stuff. It wasn't needed.

Also, what was the point of having the Grand Inquisitor in the show and have it set up that the GI and Reva are supposed to fight, if you don't make it happen? That's just a random aside.

Overall, this episode did a lot I really liked. A bit of reediting and acknowledgement of travel times would go a looooonnng ways to making better though. The battle between Obi-Wan and Vader was good. Not ROTS level great, but decent. I really wish they would've used the environment a bit more in the battle though (not just throwing rocks) but maneuvering around like they did in ROTS, climbing structures, causing things to be destroyed, etc. But the ferocity of the fight, especially things like Obi-Wan smashing in Vader's control box with his saber hilt, were great.

Of course, all the little fanservice moments included hit as hard as they needed to, so that's a plus.

Part of my issue with this finale (and I did quite enjoy it for the most part) was that episodes 3 and 4 were so bad, they didn't give us an emotional connection to anything, and it really hindered the impact of the final episode. A bit better writing, and having every episode be as strong as this would've gone a long way to making this a phenomenal series. As it was it was fine, but it needed to be better. Much better.


EDIT:
The thing I found lacking most in the previous episodes was Obi-Wan dealing with his trauma. We needed to see more scenes of him struggling than just episode 1, a brief flash in episode 3 and a little bit in episode 5. It needed to be the main focus, the main plotline of the entire series. If that would've been there, it would've strengthened the series a lot, thereby making the final fight feel epic, feel earned, and feel impactful. Just like the fight in ROTS.

[TheDutchman]

OK, before we get started: <<<SPOILERS>>>

I have to say that both LSG's and TR's assessments are dead-on accurate.  From the unlikely "Hollywood recoveries" to the instantaneous space travel to the apparent complete lack of support craft to the ineptitude of the Imperials in general (and Vader in particular), the Obi-Wan series ended precisely with the status quo precedent set in Episodes 2, 3, 4, & 5.  And while I'll try not to rehash what my other two fellow Forum-mates eloquently and correctly already pointed out, I hope that you'll bear with me if I do cover familiar ground while presenting my POV. 

Here we go:

The GOOD: Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan.  He absolutely embodies the character, continuing to make it his own as well as giving homage to Alec Guiness with his subtle transition to the man he becomes in A New Hope.  I actually thought that Hayden Christiansen did a remarkable balance between Vader/Anakin-that-was, the emotions apparent across his face (well, HALF of it  ) really selling the fact that a large part of Vader's all-consuming hatred seems to include himself.  I believe that such an emotional component gives Vader's character even that more pathos compared to simply "I HATE YOU [Obi-Wan]!"  Now just what the exact motives of his own self-hatred may be, the series does leave up to our interpretation (which is for the good IMO).  And the saber&Force battle between the two was enjoyable, action-packed, and a good representation of what two powerful Force-users could do with their powers in a fight, especially Obi-Wan with the rock-bombardment scene; I thought this was particularly well done and reminded me of a pic I'd come across awhile ago:

(Wouldn't this have been a BAD@SS scene?  )

The BAD: Again, LSG's and TR's observations are spot-on.  Let me also add that I was completely taken out of the narrative when I saw Vader's Lambda-class shuttle descend from the hanger.  Did no one really check for dimensional references?  An Imperial-class star destroyer's primary hangerbay is supposed to be huge, so much so that it can swallow in it's entirety the Tantive IV, the CR90 corvette first seen in "A New Hope."  Instead, Vader's shuttle looks like it's half as large as one of the star destroyer's three main engines.  Let us not forget, this ship is huge: 1.6km/1 mile in length.  The shuttle should comparatively be a blip. 
And here we also see that Reva's/3rd Sister's story is essentially superfluous: she (somehow) travels to Tatooine to find Luke--which is from MORE lazy writing: really Bail, you have to SPELL OUT to Obi-Wan what is already an "As You Know" Trope, which ultimately leads to Reva figuring it out because (NATURALLY) Obi-Wan had lost the communicator?!?--sorry, I digress, AHEM, FINDS Luke after a tepid battle between Owen, Beru, and Reva, and...gives an unconscious Luke to Obi-Wan, who (as TR pointed out) has teleported there JUST in time...
/sigh
My wife actually had a better idea: the "reveal" *cough not really *cough of Reva should've been moved up in the story to Episode 6 where, just as she's about to kill Luke, she then remembers her own trauma, giving resolution to the pathos that she'd endured for a more organic scene where she hands over a comatose-yet-otherwise-perfectly-healthy Luke to Obi-Wan (or, better still, Owen & Beru; Obi-Wan should still be busy either with Vader OR in transit).
Of course, this isn't addressing the fact that apparently being run through the abdomen with a 1 meter/3 foot plasma blade requires only the most basic of triage.  A band-aid, perhaps...

I think that one of the biggest problems with the overall narrative was that instead of a tight, focused story, we get what amounts to an error of comedies.  Instead of wasted characters like Haja, Tala, and Boken, why not actually GIVE them something to do...maybe they end up forming the core leadership to a rebel cell that re-organizes The Path and continues helping out those marginalized by the Empire?  Think about Tala alone: with her Imperial knowledge and experience, she could have been a boon to the Alliance. 

Alas, she is unceremoniously killed and completely forgotten by the next episode.  By everyone. 

Haja and Boken suffer almost as much: Haja is used for comedy (which is fine for his episode but then he's relegated to "Bystander #23" except for the ONE time that Leia REALLY won't talk to Obi-Wan...and yes, that is /sarcasm.  Sorry), and Boken to...tell people things (?) 

So much potential wasted...

The UGLY: TOO MANY CONTRIVANCES!  Also, the fact that the storytelling was incredibly uneven.  To wit, TR mentioned that Obi-Wan's trauma seemed to be all over the place.  And he's exactly correct: one moment he's paralyzed with fear/uncertainty/trepidation (take your pic), the next he's echoing his old self from the Prequels.  This isn't Ewan's fault IMO, but rather endemic to the poor writing (that LSG rightly mentioned).  Inevitably, we end up with a serious case of mood whiplash. 

Pathos in a story is good; it helps drive the narrative and propels the protagonist(s) through adversity towards a (hopefully) satisfying resolution.  But the series' seems more like a jumble of scenarios that are tacked together as if they were decided upon by committee (which, given Disney, does not surprise me in the least).

Was it good to see Obi-Wan & Vader again?  Most definitely.  Was it a worthy successor?  In a few instances, yes...but overall, I don't think so.  I believe that LSG and TR provided excellent summations:

LSG-There is a LOT to like about this series, shame about the writing.

TR-As it was it was fine, but it needed to be better. Much better.

I'd love to hear others' opinions on this^^

[mrg149]

I agree with everything said so far. II'd ust like to add that even the musical score was a giant nothing-burger. Very middle-of-the-road and lacked the extra punnch that Star Wars delivered musically. Chck out the YouTube vids of the Obi vs Vader scenes rescored to Battle of the Heres and Ep 3 music to see just how much extra that music adds to the scene.

Oberall from me the series gets a solid B+ with comment of "Not perforing to potential"

[Taegin Roan]

I agree with everything said so far. II'd ust like to add that even the musical score was a giant nothing-burger. Very middle-of-the-road and lacked the extra punnch that Star Wars delivered musically. Chck out the YouTube vids of the Obi vs Vader scenes rescored to Battle of the Heres and Ep 3 music to see just how much extra that music adds to the scene.

Oberall from me the series gets a solid B+ with comment of "Not perforing to potential"

Since your bring the music up, I will add that I was not only hoping for, but expecting to hear Battle of the Heroes (or a remixed version) again in their "rematch". That is basically Obi-Wan and Vader's Theme, and to not have it used at that time was a major wasted opportunity, and another instance of not paying attention to what the story required, what Star Wars required, or what the Fans required.

[mrg149]

Since your bring the music up, I will add that I was not only hoping for, but expecting to hear Battle of the Heroes (or a remixed version) again in their "rematch". That is basically Obi-Wan and Vader's Theme, and to not have it used at that time was a major wasted opportunity, and another instance of not paying attention to what the story required, what Star Wars required, or what the Fans required.

Seriously, then, I suggrst you watch the YouTube "remixed" version with the Ep.3 music…I would love your opinion(s) on the difference made with this simple "rescoring" of the fight scenes. :-D

[Darth Tepes]

 

Episode 1 the Phantom Menace key moment was the death of Qui-Gon-Jin, Kenobis master, finder of the Chosen one Anakin Skywalker, when stabbed with a lightsaber.  Apparently this too was misleading, being stabbed with a lightsaber in fact is not seriously damaging, and indeed no barrier to teleporting to Tatooine should one wish to.
 

Qui-Gon was stabbed higher than the gut... pretty sure it got part of his lungs.  Bit different from the gut which seems to not be a huge issue in SW. 

I honestly am baffled by people irked by "teleporting"  the same thing was talked about with Game of Thrones.  Travel time isn't something that ever really entered my mind when watching a film or show.  If they did that the majority of the show would be scenes of people traveling.


In terms of the duel I much preferred this to the EP III duel.... I have always been very critical of the EP III duel in contrast to the rest of the fandom it seems.  While I agree that the show was not what it could have been bu I seemed to enjoy it more than most. 

[Taegin Roan]

If they did that the majority of the show would be scenes of people traveling.

There's a reason why LOTR feels so realistic.