UltraSabers Forms

[John-Michael]

Most, if not all, of us here are familiar with the various fictional Star Wars "Lightsaber Forms" and their off-shoots (Shii-Cho, Makashi, Soresu, Ataru, Shien/Djem-So, Niman, Juyo/Vaapad, etc.).

As we are all aware, these forms are not real nor are they realistic; lightsabers don't really exist, the Force is not an energy form that any one here can manipulate, etc.  Further, these "forms" only came into being to help flesh out characters, settings and subsequent story lines, and were created by authors who were probably not primarily motivated to create bona fide fighting styles with technology and super powers that do not exist.

That said, we are here because we are Star Wars fans and many seem to be staged combat and/or martial art enthusiasts, particularly when it comes to wielding a lightsaber prop such as those sold by UltraSabers. 

As mentioned in at least one other thread, these "lightsaber props" can actually function as bona fide weapons; they are basically polycarbonate/hard plastic clubs, batons or staves.

IDEA:  Instead of trying to translate fictional lightsaber forms that were designed with the premise that the wielder can manipulate the Force in conjunction with an actual working lightsaber, how about creating and developing practical bona fide self-defense styles/forms for use with UltraSabers products?

This means we would take the several factors into consideration, which include (but are not limited to) the following:
~ construction of UltraSabers products (particulary weapon size & weight as well as their material limitations)
~ the use of light (and possibly sound) as distractors
~ the reality of today's legal environment
~ how current martial arts can be adapted and adopted for use with the different types/kinds of UltraSabers products
~ interpersonal communication as an added layer of self-defense


I wouldn't call myself a martial arts expert, but to start the ball rolling, I would begin by describing some obvious UltraSabers "forms" or "styles" thusly:

1)  Basic or "Bastard" Style:  Single-bladed sabers (for the most part) can be wielded with both hands for better power and control, but are light enough that they can be swung with one hand for greater range of motion, etc.  I would imagine that this style takes elements from kendo, Western European sword (bastard sword or even broad sword) techniques, maybe iai?

2)  Saberstaff:  Two sabers attached with a coupler to form a double-bladed staff is basically a staff weapon; techniques from wing-chun to bojutsu and other staff and staff-like weapon arts would directly translate for this kind of weapon use.  Naginatajutsu and other spear-like weapon arts would also be very applicable, since the saberstaff has a definitive handle that limits effective hand-placement to some degree.

3)  Dual Saber:  For those who wish to wield one saber in each hand, Filipino 2-stick fighting (also known as kali, eskrima or arnis de mano).  I would guess that the shorter hilts such as UltraSabers' Initiates and bent-hilt sabers (because they were originally inspired by ancient Filipino sword hilts) would work best for this style.

4) Bent-Hilt Saber:  I know very little of Western European fencing, and would hazard a guess that heavy-grade polycarbonate blades are too heavy to manipulate effectively that way.  The few competitive fencers I know, however, prefer to use pistol-grip "handles" (I do not know the exact terminology) for ergonomic reasons, if memory serves...  I am not very familiar with savate or the French stick/cane-fighting system (La Canne), but I would submit that perhaps these martial arts, or a combination with ancient Filipino weapon arts, would work?

5) Reverse Grip:  Military and/or Filipino-style knife fighting techniques?  Probably would be more practicable with shorter (24") blades with shorter hilts (Initiate).

6) Dual Reverse Grip, Guard Sho-to/Ton-fa, etc. : These are all examples of how the list can keep growing and evolving with time, experimentation, contribution, etc.

Note that I'm using common parlance/language to "name" each style/form, with each name briefly describing the form.  I think everyone can appreciate the practical advantages.

SUGGESTION:  Besides posting thoughts and ideas in this thread, perhaps those who are interested and have relevant/directly-applicable experience/training/skill can post videos or compile information for training manuals?  Perhaps the UltraSaber-wielding experts can post their videos in this thread?

Anyway, I just thought I'd start the ball rolling, and am eager to read what others have to say.

[qroon]

3)  Dual Saber:  For those who wish to wield one saber in each hand, Filipino 2-stick fighting (also known as kali, eskrima or arnis de mano).  I would guess that the shorter hilts such as UltraSabers' Initiates and bent-hilt sabers (because they were originally inspired by ancient Filipino sword hilts) would work best for this style.

As a Filipino, I'm already contemplating on the Arnis-like wielding of sabers. The stick (baston) are 28". So if the hilt (initiate) is 9", then the blade would be 19" (from the tip of the emitter). I discussed this with my wife, and she quipped:

You'll look like a traffic enforcer with light sticks!

But yeah, this will be a good project in the future!

[Kham-Ryn Kurios]

"6) Dual Reverse Grip, Guard Sho-to/Ton-fa, etc. : These are all examples of how the list can keep growing and evolving with time, experimentation, contribution, etc."

Other than using my single hilt, THIS, is the only other way I wield them.

IDK where it came from or why I decided that I wanted to work with shorter 24" blades like this but I will continue to work on it.

I could really use some good places to look for material to work into it.

I like to employ elbow swipes like those used in Muay Thai and think that this style could be very viable, I just don't have any formal training so what I know I've had to teach myself.

[Master Nero Attoru]

Interesting idea.

4) Bent-Hilt Saber:  I know very little of Western European fencing, and would hazard a guess that heavy-grade polycarbonate blades are too heavy to manipulate effectively that way.  The few competitive fencers I know, however, prefer to use pistol-grip "handles" (I do not know the exact terminology) for ergonomic reasons, if memory serves...  I am not very familiar with savate or the French stick/cane-fighting system (La Canne), but I would submit that perhaps these martial arts, or a combination with ancient Filipino weapon arts, would work?

You were correct here, the term "pistol grip" is a common way to refer to the widely used visconti handle used by many modern fencers (myself included).  A bent hilt - for instance the one wielded by Dooku - would certainly lend to this sort of "fencing" style, and would indeed require a lighter blade such as a mid grade.

Another thing about this is that even the midgrade blades are really a bit too heavy to function as a true "fencing type weapon."  I have found that a 3/4" blade, while sacrificing some durability, actually mimics a fencing weapon (foil, epee, saber) quite well.  Just some food for thought.

[Master Lucien Kane]

I use primarily 3/4'' blades for dueling... I've only had a blade break because a tip flew off and then was smashed into the ground.... But you can do that with a 1'' blade and get the same effect. I love my 3/4'' blades, and I agree that they are great for mimicking fencing. However that being said I haven't had any trouble using the midgrade blades for the same style of combat... the only difference is there is no whip in the blade.

All being said, I think this is a good idea... a bit oversimplified for my tastes, but alright none the less. I still intend to turn the seven forms of lightsaber combat into seven practical forms of martial arts. They will be unique in that they will build off of each other. However I believe the moves can be translated viably and effectively. I feel I am often alone in this camp though... So I suppose show and tell will be in order as I progress.