The Battle of Hoth

[Darth Servius]

So as I'm typing this I'm watching Something, Something, Darkside (the Family Guy parody of Empire Strikes Back for those that don't know) and before the battle of Hoth Leah (Lois) says to the rebel fleet "We're being attacked by the Empire, and though we're on a planet with infinite ways to escape we have decided that we will take the route that leads straight towards the Imperial fleet." even despite seeing this before I still literally laugh out loud at that line because it points out the rebels' absurd escape strategy in Empire Strikes Back, what's even funnier is the fact that watching Empire as a kid I never really thought much about it and it's only now in my adult years that I really realized it. I mean think about they have the whole planet to utilize in their escape and they take the one route that leads straight into the enemy. LOL 

[Zephon]

Military wise, this makes sense to escape by other routes, and even then, they shouldnt be in an open spot (though hidden underneath the snow and terrain).

Looking back on it from when I watched it as a kid and young teen...I never noticed that at all.

[Sky Dragon c5]

Maybe a route straight through is better for cover. That way its harder to pick them off as they fly in different directions. That's why there was the massive lazer cannon.

[Manroon]

I laugh at that too, along with the cookie monster joke. lol But really, I think that is one more thing that isn't entirely covered in the movie. It's sort of implied that with an Imp Fleet that big, and the MASSIVE number of fighters carried by each destroyer, let alone what the Executor carried, the ships would have been deployed in a web to cover any escape route fairly well. Those fighters coupled with the destroyer's big guns would have effectively stopped most ships from getting through, save for the Ion Cannon. And of course, with that many Imp Ships, the Rebels are of course going to concentrate their escape efforts within the Ion Cannon's range of fire, knowing that the weapon will provide them an escape window until the shield goes down and an orbiting destroyer manages to slag it. Also, as I said before, they would know that sending ships in any direction except that escape window would be suicide, as none of the Gallofree Yards Transports would have the firepower to take on a destroyer, even with 2 X-Wings for escort. That one route was effectively their only way out.


Yeah.... I'm a super geek. lol

[Sky Dragon c5]

@ Manronn
You beat my explanation!

[Manroon]

We were getting at the same idea.

[Zephon]

Manroon had a great answer.

[Vyk]

With roughly half a dozen Imperator Star Destroyers in orbit, along with Executor, which direction should they have gone?  It takes 8 minutes for an Imperator in low Hoth orbit to move to the point opposite itself (or any other point) at full power⁽¹⁾, allowing them to easily set up a blockade.  The Millennium Falcon matches the acceleration of X-Wings during the Battle of Endor, X-Wings appear to be much faster⁽²⁾ in realspace than the Gallofree transports, and the Imperators demonstrate that they are much faster than the Falcon (or it would have easily eluded them without need to hide in the asteroid belt).  Therefore, the transports cannot outrun the Star Destroyers, and their only possible escape comes from getting far enough away from Hoth's mass shadow to enter hyperspace before any of the Imperial ships (other than the disabled Tyrant) come into weapons range.  That leaves them exactly one avenue of escape--the direction of Tyrant, ie, within an arc of space in line of sight from the planetary ion cannon.

I am, of course, assuming you (and Lois) aren't suggesting that they attempt to stay on the planet; they're pretty clearly unable to fight off the AT-ATs, meaning that loss of their shield is inevitable and orbital bombardment unavoidable.  Since a single Imperator is capable of reducing the surface of a planet to molten slag ("Base Delta Zero"), attempting to stay on the surface would be suicide.  (In fact, orbital bombardment was Admiral Ozzel's intended strategy, but his exit from hyperspace too close to Hoth alerted the Alliance--an ultimately fatal mistake.)

(1) Based on a 150km orbit around Hoth, and using the average velocity demonstrated by Imperators at Endor--see the Star Wars Technical Commentaries
(2) By "faster" I mean "higher linear acceleration" in realspace

[Darth Servius]

Manroon, Vyk you guys both make very valid points and I concede to them especially with all the facts you have supporting them. Still you have to admit that looking at it from my previous standpoint it's still pretty funny. BTW Vyk in no way was I implying the rebels stay on Hoth, it doesn't take a super geek (as Manroon so elequently refered to himself) to know that would've been absolute suicide. I just simply found it pretty humorous how Family Guy poked fun at what could be percieved as a plot hole to the casual viewer. Mind you not everybody would even bother to read the Star Wars Technical Commentaries, I'm sure Seth McFarlane didn't. lol

[Vyk]

EVERYBODY should read the SWTC!  I'm currently working on making my wife, my boss, and my friend's 6-year-old daughter read them!

(...ok, not really.  But they are really good.)

[Manroon]

LOL It appears I'm not the ONLY Super Geek (if that wasn't a given on this forum)

And you are right, that scene in Family Guy was pretty darned funny.

[ThreadJack]

I always thought of it the way Manny and Vyke do. Although arrogant, Imps are not entirely stupid, so I always assumed they brought at least a small fleet, enough to form a decent blockade. This would mean the Rebels had no choice but to fly straight towards the enemy, cause no matter what direction they chose their was at least on Star Destroyer. So you might as well go in the direction the ion cannon can help you.

It was kinda implied in the movie, but I think a simple "Why don't we go around?" "Cause they blockaded us, there is no way around." during the briefing would have been good.

[kewlkev360]

I always thought of it the way Manny and Vyke do. Although arrogant, Imps are not entirely stupid, so I always assumed they brought at least a small fleet, enough to form a decent blockade. This would mean the Rebels had no choice but to fly straight towards the enemy, cause no matter what direction they chose their was at least on Star Destroyer. So you might as well go in the direction the ion cannon can help you.

It was kinda implied in the movie, but I think a simple "Why don't we go around?" "Cause they blockaded us, there is no way around." during the briefing would have been good.

they did bring a fleet, Death Squadron.  They make several references to the fleet in the movie too.

Darth Vader orders Admiral Piett: "Deploy the fleet so that nothing gets off that system."

That was the scene where Vader Force chokes Admiral Ozzel.

Later when the Millenium Falcon is clamped on the back of the command tower of a Star Destroyer, Han Solo says "The fleet's beginning to break up."

Death Squadron included the following ships at the time of the Battle of Hoth, based off Wookiepedia:

Executor-class Star Dreadnoughts
    Executor 
 
Imperial-class Star Destroyers

    Accuser   
    Adjudicator
    Avarice (Battle of Hoth; destroyed)
    Avenger 
    Conquest (Permanent)
    Devastator (Permanent)
    Stalker (Permanent)
    Tyrant (Permanent)
    Vengeance II
    1 unidentified Imperial II Star Destroyer (Battle of Hoth; destroyed in an asteroid collision)
 
Victory-class Star Destroyers

    Firewind

Estimated total of fighters  would be about 768, based on Wookiepedia listings.  This total only include the TIE series, Star Destroyers also carry Assault Gunboats and Skipray Blastboats

[Vyk]

Death Squadron included the following ships at the time of the Battle of Hoth, based off Wookiepedia:
(snip)

I'm not sure I believe Wookiepedia.  Earlier today (after making my previous post) I skimmed the novelization of Empire Strikes Back, and noted something.  It states that Executor had "five wedge-shaped Imperial Star Destroyers guarding it."  A few pages later, the first sentence of chapter four begins, "SIX ominous shapes appeared in the black space of the Hoth system[...] Inside the largest of the six Imperial Star Destroyers, Darth Vader sat alone in a small spherical room."  (SIX is capitalized since it's the first word of the chapter.)  Now, it's been a while since I watched the movie all the way through, so it's possible that we see Executor and a full 10 Imperators at some point (we could not have seen a Victory since there was never a Victory model--the first time one was even mentioned was the X-Wing computer game), but in a brief reviewing of the fleet's scenes leading up to their arrival at Hoth, I only saw 5 Imperators at any one time.  We could handwave a bit if we're so inclined ("well, the other ships were outside the system or enroute or something"), but canon evidence suggests that when Vader refers to his fleet, he means exactly six ships, and Wookiepedia is wrong.

Now a mea culpa: the novelization also strongly suggests that it's the unfortunate Captain Needa's Avenger that was hit by the ion cannon blast.  (Man, he did not have a good day, did he?)  I, too, used Wookiepedia as a source for my previous post, which is why I referred to Tyrant, seemingly erroneously.

[kewlkev360]

I'm not sure I believe Wookiepedia.  Earlier today (after making my previous post) I skimmed the novelization of Empire Strikes Back, and noted something.  It states that Executor had "five wedge-shaped Imperial Star Destroyers guarding it."  A few pages later, the first sentence of chapter four begins, "SIX ominous shapes appeared in the black space of the Hoth system[...] Inside the largest of the six Imperial Star Destroyers, Darth Vader sat alone in a small spherical room."  (SIX is capitalized since it's the first word of the chapter.)  Now, it's been a while since I watched the movie all the way through, so it's possible that we see Executor and a full 10 Imperators at some point (we could not have seen a Victory since there was never a Victory model--the first time one was even mentioned was the X-Wing computer game), but in a brief reviewing of the fleet's scenes leading up to their arrival at Hoth, I only saw 5 Imperators at any one time.  We could handwave a bit if we're so inclined ("well, the other ships were outside the system or enroute or something"), but canon evidence suggests that when Vader refers to his fleet, he means exactly six ships, and Wookiepedia is wrong.

Now a mea culpa: the novelization also strongly suggests that it's the unfortunate Captain Needa's Avenger that was hit by the ion cannon blast.  (Man, he did not have a good day, did he?)  I, too, used Wookiepedia as a source for my previous post, which is why I referred to Tyrant, seemingly erroneously.

 Wookieepedia does state that the fleet initially consisted of the Executor and five Star Destroyers, and from then on always had at least that many.  I also noticed a mistake in my earlier post, I meant to take out the Accuser and Adjudicator, as they were not present at the battle but I forgot.  The Executor, Avenger, Conquest, Devastator, Stalker, Tyrant were all present at the battle, they were permanently assigned to the fleet.  The Vengeance II does not say what battles it was a part of so it may not have been there and the same goes for Firewind.  Vader had the authority to reassign ships to his fleet as he saw fit, so they may or may not have been present.

Either way, the main point of my post was to show that there was a fleet at Hoth for those who weren't sure and to try and clear up confusion about the battle.