Saber Forum

Huh, I was skeptical about it until they mentioned that once a crystal adopted a color it was stuck with it.
I'm more or less fine with this change, though I too miss the idea of synthetic crystals.

Good post.

This doesn't change the canon as I have been reading in books preceding Disney's acquisition other than the claim that NO lightsabers use synthetic crystals. Just because Kylo uses a kyber crystal, does not mean other characters never used anything else. Darth Maul has a story line in place with synthetic crystals he forged. This neither demands that all red crystals be synthetic, nor does Kylo's kyber crystal demand that there can be no synthetics ever used. I won't be surprised if stories moving forward under Disney's canon don't follow this video's interpreted limitations of current Disney examples.

I would say that this new version of canon has the potential to create some very embarrassing if not extremely tense moments between masters and students should the crystal reveal something about someone.  I mean...if I had the Force I can be almost SURE I'd end up with a purple or red saber.  Would that, in universe, mean my master turning on me or expelling me?  Or otherwise deciding I needed to be put through "counseling"?

Given the Jedi fallacy to think that a single act or a single moment is one's destiny FOREVER, I could easily see them condemning a student on that basis.  (And if there is such potential for darkness in a student, creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.)

I haven't viewed the Jedi as unforgiving, but rather trained to be cautious and aware of the dark side's ability to dominate the user. Jedi teach that everyone has this dark potential and should be wary of it. The example early on, as well as time and again, is that our hero force user is tempted by the dark side, therefore not perfect, while the villain embraces it unto their destruction. The film's ideology is a reflection simply meant to have us, the viewer, look at our own idea of morality and why we choose what we do. I've never seen it as a judgment of desire or feelings, but an aspiration of higher goals and training methods of resisting the dark side's destructive influences, like killing your pregnant wife. As such, I expect a padawan won't have a deep raging red saber. Perhaps one must embrace the dark ways before they can grow to such a level. We know a Jedi can fall, but a padawan that begins dark? Regardless of your temptations, you're not evil as soon as you get mad.

Also, Anakin killed the sand people that killed his mother in episode 2, right? Then he fought Dooku and lost his lightsaber, right? He constructed a blue saber after that, right?

I actually really like this explanation......though I wonder what it would mean for other colors like cyan/teal/turquoise, orange, or yellow as far as ever becoming canon?

I suppose cyan would mean a Jedi how falls somewhere in the middle and is likely to be a blend of physical fighter and in tune with the Force. Perhaps yellow would be a Jedi who relies more on other skills besides combat and the Force to serve the galaxy, like healers, teachers, and such. Not really sure about orange.....maybe a Dark Side "light"(as in less intense) user? :D

Or perhaps orange is just for us renegades who say screw the rules!

I would find fault with the simplicity of saying purple is a mix of red and blue. I know it fools our eyes into seeing purple. In truth, light has energy and wavelengths. Mixing wavelengths do not typically make other wavelengths. Mixing light confuses our eyes.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/Fraunhofer_lines.svg/2000px-Fraunhofer_lines.svg.png)

So, orange energy is between red and yellow and can be mimicked with red and yellow blended. Maybe a dark sentinel? Purple is higher energy than blue and can be mimicked with red(low energy) and blue(still less energy than purple). Maybe a dark edge walking guardian or an extreme guardian super blue energy. Cyan is between and mimicked by green and blue. Maybe a guardular or a consudian? But, green is between blue and yellow, while blue and yellow mix to mimic white. Shall we think crystals in energy and wavelengths or human eye chemistry?

Shall we assume that Mace Windu walked the fine edge of light and dark or that he was the guardiest of the guardians with the highest energy of visible light?

I'm really not liking how ALL Sith end up having red blades, but the crystals ARE NOT synthetic. 

WTH!?

Yeah, I saw this video a week or so ago. I think having the user's Force potential dictate the color was a good explanation. It explains why in the Clone Wars episode where the younglings get their crystals, they are all blueish but produce blue and green blades. I also like how once a crystal produces that color it stays that color. It makes a crystal less like the unbeatable wand from Harry Potter, in that it won't change its allegiance (color) based on the current owner or the owner's Force affiliation.

I don't like the fact that non synthetic crystals have been essentially removed from canon. How do the Sith then impart their DS energy into it? How did Luke make his saber, and where did he get the crystal? What about Force users in exile during the imperial rule? If the caves were all closed and guarded, hoW did they make their sabers?

It tries to tie up loose ends, but it goes too far, and it ends up creating too many other ones.

I actually think the color thing is stupid.  "They're all white but become a color based on the person."  Yeah, no, bad idea.  Just my opinion, of course.

However, it still doesn't explain why all Jedi in Attack of the Clones except Mace Windu had blue or green lightsabers.  If each of those Jedi "imbued" their crystal with their essence and they all came out either blue or green, that means that each of those Jedi are pretty bland archetypes.  There are no yellow or orange, even shades of blue or green, and only one purple.  (and that was only because it's Samuel L. Jackson's favorite color)  This new explanation also makes all of the Sith cookie cutter archetypes as well.

No synthetic crystals is another dumb idea.  Even Luke's lightsaber was supposedly constructed with a synthetic crystal, because crystals were even more rare than they once had been.  So, he made a synthetic one.  However, it now appears that, in the middle of a war, he went trekking off to find a crystal.  Nice.  ::)

So, yeah, it's not so good for me.  But then, I don't think something is so just because Disney says it is.  I can choose to acknowledge whichever explanation I want to, and I like the old one better.

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/728b26c40c47747528aa44083c9ac3a3/tumblr_mg16xqyNz21qa1kkvo1_500.gif)

Yeah I think it's more reasonable to have a variety for dark side users too, like a nice DVA or PO blade could say a lot about the user and his POV of the dark side; as we've seen different philosophies and execution of the dark side. And again less cookie cutter.

Previously, forging a synth crystal was no small feat requiring the correct skill, material and processes as well as force abilities to make one. It also keeps that element of individuality to the saber and it's owner.

I do like that the crystal takes on a color based on the force user, but could use some flexibility.

Actually, the crystals taking a color based on the Force user makes more sense with Synthetic crystals.  Previously, Dark Side users would meditate and imbue their synthetic crystals with Dark Side energies while "baking" them.  Disney could easily have exploited this to create a reason behind some Sith blades being redder than others.  It could be indicative of how much DS energy was channeled into the crystal during the forging.  It would also explain why Kylo's crystal cracked.  Trying to forge a crystal with conflicting emotions led to an imperfect crystal.  But, leave it to Disney to miss the obvious.  (all my opinion, of course)

HA!  I like that. :)

Though, of course, reality is a relative term here.  ;)

I actually really like this explanation and am totally on board with it.  Metaphysically, certain colors are used to represent certain states, but those states can shift.  I like the idea that your lightsaber will reflect who you are at your core and that like many other things, this can change (if a new saber is constructed).  Although, I think it would be kind of neat if ALL sabers started out white and shifted to reflect the changing ideology of those who wield them.  Not just a mood shift.  I'm talking about a deep-seated change that changes the fabric of a person's identity. 

Also, I find one flaw in this.  If this reflects the true essence of the wielder, I'm not so sure some of these colors are accurate for their wielders.  Anakin and Kylo come to mind immediately.

Mood blades, the next evolution in lightsaber science. ;)

I wonder if the crystals take on the ideals of the constructor of the lightsaber during the meditation, or if someone can imbue it previously and then hand it over to another for them to build a lightsaber.    I wonder this because all the Sith and Sith allied saber we see in the present canon are the same color of red.   Could these have been gathered up by Palpatine via his office in the Republic and he imbued them all himself?  Even Vader's crystal might have been a gift from Palpatine.  Thus would make them all uniform and not necessarily reflect the user's ideals.   Kylo Rens's saber being the only possible outer, but with a cracked crystal, it is possible he got it from an older Sith allied saber the Knights of Ren or the Brotherhood found post-Endor.

Luke may have done a quest to find his own crystal at any point between A New Hope and the completion of his lightsaber just before Return of the Jedi.  He could have had it while he still had his father's lightsaber, and just didn't have a use for it yet.  The alternative is that Obi-wan had a spare crystal in his hut, either an unimbued one, or perhaps even Qui-Gon's old crystal.  Or old Ben shifted from blue to green during his exile on Tatooine, but never got around to needing to replace his Clone War's era lightsaber crystal.

There are a lot of opening with this and any number of stories that can be told (or retold in some cases).

Perhaps Kylo's using the crystal from Vader's saber.

Considering that saber went tumbling down the same reactor tunnel that Palatine went down, I doubt it.

Why not...according to (current) canon, even Vaders right glove (together with some debris of the Death Star) didn't vanish but was somehow "saved" due to the wormhole that was conjured when the Death Star's reactor was blown up and released its hypermatter. So why shouldn't his lightsaber have taken the same way?

And regarding the video...I actually like the new "lightsaber crystal" canon. Even the change that there are no synthetic crystals anymore. Imbuing the crystal with the Force (and potential feelings) of the wielder, making his own unique colour sounds very reasonable to me. This can also mean that a Dark Side user can use any crystal, clean it through the Force and then imbue it with his own feelings and Force potential. Since he's a Dark Side adept, the nature of the Dark Side of the Force and the more or less similar feelings of Dark Side users always colours the crystal in red.
Light Side users have much more variation in using the Light Side and more differentiated feelings, so their crystals will vary in colour, too. They also have the possibility of cleaning a Dark Side crystal, using it for him/-herself.

Last but not least, my theory on cracked kyber crystals is that when performing the process incorrectly, either because the Force wielder is untrained or too quick and thus inaccurate or, in case of Kylo Ren, torn between the Light and Dark Side, the crystal's structure is critically damaged instead of the normal rearrangement during the process which leads to the crack.

Where is this stated in Disney Canon

Heir to the Jedi, within Disney canon, doesn't say why a saber has it's color, but it describes a purple lightsaber belonging to a rhodian who died in the clone wars. The saber used 3 amethyst kyber crystals and behaved as if it were trying to escape Luke's grasp. It wasn't quite clear if that was a rhodian grip design thing or a force thing. Luke took it apart and couldn't put it back together, as it requires the force to align parts inside where tools can't reach, and he couldn't move things yet. Heir to the Jedi is set between Ep 3 and 4. He begins moving things with the force in HttJ.

Mentioned your point to my brother.....he brought up that fact that Anakin was always losing or destroying his saber so it is possible that he had a few extra?

His lightsaber was destroyed in the droid factory before he even fought Dooku.  In the battle arena on Geonosis, two jedi tossed "spare" lightsabers to Anakin and Obi-Wan.  Obi-Wan got a blue one and Anakin a green one.  In the final battle, after Obi-Wan was injured, he tossed the blue lightsaber to Anakin, who dual wielded for a few seconds.  Then Dooku destroyed the green lightsaber, leaving Anakin with a blue one.  During the battle, Dooku cut off Anakin's arm, but the blue lightsaber wasn't destroyed.

When he constructed his ROTS lightsaber, he could have just used the crystal from one of the blue lightsabers from Geonosis, either his original that was destroyed (that's not to say the crystal was destroyed, someone could have gone down into the factory and retrieved it) or, more likely, he could have deconstructed the lightsaber he fought with at the end of the film and taken the blue crystal out of it.  Since they were in a war, it makes more sense to use a crystal that's already got a color, assuming that the imbuing the color bit takes some time.

Let's not forget a few things, though. There is a connection between the Force user and his/her crystal, and at that time the caves were still under jedi control and open. He could have easily gone to a cave to her a new crystal to fabricate his ROTS saber. That would have made that saber more his and strengthened the bond between the two, as opposed to reusing a crystal from another saber.

And therein lies the problem.  If he imbued a new crystal, would it have still come out blue, as he was already turning to the Dark Side at that point?  If indeed Dark Side characters always get a red blade, why didn't his come out red?  Or orange?  Or any other color besides blue?  If blue is indeed associated with a Jedi Knight, a beacon of virtue and justice and a defender of the Light, how would a character with a dark spark in them imbue a blue crystal?  Just sayin'...

These are the types of issues that come up when you suddenly decided "this is the way things are done" and make it canon.  There are questions, some of which don't have answers.

But he hadn't fully turned, yet. And, there was still good in him, even as Vader. Therefore, if you look at his full arc, he did return to the defender of the light, meaning a blue color would have been justified. Always in motion, the future is.

I agree with you that a complete overhaul often creates problems that didn't exist, which is why I stated in my first post was that this went too far.

I think you guys are putting too much on him killing those sand people.  He struggled, but didn't turn until well into episode 3.  He was rebellious and had a temper, he wasn't necessarily a sith.

Exactly. Until he turned, he was still a Jedi. Like everyone, he was flawed, but he was still a Jedi. Killing the Tusken Raiders was part of the path, but it wasn't the turn. He didn't commit and devote himself to the DS with that singular act.

Technically you could say it shifted his blade color from blue (Guardian Blue) for his first saber to Cyan (Arctic Blue) for his Clone Wars saber.  He was very much the warrior in that war.  But, like Ahsoka describes him, he was still very kind to his friends at that point.  That Obi-wan's blade never shifted to green is interesting, since he had to make a new lightsaber for the Clone Wars as well, but was dubbed "The Negotiator".  But then we don't know exactly what causes the blades to come out blue or green for the Jedi.  Qui-Gon and Yoda have green blades like Luke.  The question is, why?   Even when we saw the younglings get their lightsabers finished using crystals they picked up from their trails, some were blue and some were green when ignited.

Considering the Graflex went tumbling down a weather tunnel only to end up in the atmosphere of a gas giant, but shows up in TFA, I don't see how that's such an issue....


Didn't Illum change hands almost constantly during the war? It's possible he just took the crystal because he didn't have time to go get another one. He did have a job to do.

Remember Slaughtering innocent children alone won't do, you have to swear allegiance to the teaching of the dark side then kill them.    Like everything else it is not official until the contract is confirmed and signed. I am still sticking to my extra saber theories or extra pretune crystals

Oh but wait then there is that 3day rule before the contract is REALLY official after you signed it?.........so he still could have  gone back. lol


But this brings up another point.   Asohka's new blades are white, so did they original keep this color when became in tuned with her, was this because she was no longer part of the order and why would that matter? Was the force like" yeah she is still good and all but not apart of an official sect, NOPE NO MORE GREEN FOR HER!" Or is the white/silver blade the new complete(light side) balance to replace yellow.(Sentinel Sliver now??)  Does this also mean you can be a completely balance in the dark side too? We already have a Total balance of light and Dark being the purple blade...............i am not even getting into the black blade.  

The Graflex will play a major role in Ep VIII . . . but in who's hands?

Will Luke still have his lightsaber from RotJ?  What did he use while trying to start up the Jedi order?

Clearly Rey won't be ready to make her own any time soon - will Luke "give" the Graflex to her . . . either right away or after some training?

Will he keep it for himself and eventually lead Rey into building one for herself by the end of Ep VIII?

Will we see any other familiar lightsabers next film?  Or possibly a whole other new one?

Nowhere, that's why I call it "current canon", i.e. the version that has been untouched by Disney so far. I'm quite sure this will eventually be changed like many parts of the "old" canon (now called "Legends") have been.

In my opinion, for the Jedi, it depends if the knight is more driven by its Wisdom (green - Yoda ...) or its Valour (blue - most of the warriors ...). I liked the idea that the color of the blade was linked to the true nature of the Jedi ... and this one is not supposed to change (in my opinion) ... it is not a mood ;)

We don't know where the Graflex landed. We do know that the facility didn't blow up like the Death Star. It could've ended up in a vent, ledge, or who knows where. It's possible Vader's saber survived the explosion. Like I said, I doubt it, but it's not entirely impossible.

In Legends it was attempted to be taken by Dooku, but I'm not sure if that's canon anymore. You're right, he did have a job to do, and that job required a lightsaber. If he didn't have any extra crystals available, going back to Ilum would've been a priority. That weapon is his life, after all.

All of these scenarios are plausible, I'm not denying that. Vader's saber could have survived the explosion. Anakin may have had access to extra crystals or reused one. I'm just throwing out alternatives, because I like playing devil's advocate from time to time.

The Sith actually embrace the dark side as something to be utilized in force connection. The Jedi are wary of the dark side as something that one must guard oneself from falling into.

In the analogy it represents, if you are trying to be good, responsible and value others, you lean lightside. If you believe there is no such thing as bad to be forbidden or considered wrong, and you place yourself above all others, you lean dark side.

The Jedi and Sith have more specific beliefs about such things. Jedi have a method honed over generations to resist the dark side. Sith have a method honed over generations to use the dark side. I see a demarcation in choosing and utilizing the dark side in depth that could be the line of who gets red crystals. I see it as the force influencing the energy emitted. A frequency within the visible spectrum with red on one end and other colors on the other end. A particularly protective man/woman of action has an influence that pulls toward blue. A particularly reflective thinker pulls toward green. Anyone who has embraced the dark side will have an influence that overpowers other qualities in such a way as to make red. Bane and perhaps others will prove otherwise, but it is rare that one's motivations be so strong as not be overtaken by the dark side and also over take a crystal's resulting color.

We could even say Bane's amethyst is red and blue mixed, while Mace Windu's amethyst is violet next to blue on the true spectrum. Who want's to put these guys lightsabers in the spectrometer? Just me? Ok.

SOOOOO this is NOT a new change/idea that Disney came up with.    Apparently they showed this in the 1983 ROTJ Marvel comic.(scroll down to the behind the scenes)

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Synthetic_lightsaber_crystal?file=LukeRedSaber.jpg

I had to get my copy and see for myself!!

(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z442/Crocketgsxr6/The%20Dorkside/20160802_1846461_zpswbiwirhq.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/Crocketgsxr6/media/The%20Dorkside/20160802_1846461_zpswbiwirhq.jpg.html)


IT IS TRUE!!!!! and not only did it change color.........but i guess the blade also comes out the pommel when held by a darksider??

so this just makes it re-cannon... ish??

Luke's lightsaber was red in the early comics, starting with Marvel's adaptation of the first film.  I don't know when they finally gave him blue or green.  They also at times made his second lightsaber (the one from ROTJ) blue, though that may have been in Dark Horse Comics, who took over at some point.  Incidentally, the first yellow blade was wielded by another "Jedi" in the early comics.

Fun fact: the real reason for Luke's second lightsaber having a green blade is because of Earth's blue atmosphere.  The effects team was all set to give him a blue blade in ROTJ, but it didn't show up well against the blue sky of "Tatooine," so they decided to make it green.  So, the limitations of ILM in the early 80s are directly responsible for the creation of green lightsaber blades.  ;)

yep although the first time you see the blade color of the same saber change by switching users showing their connection to the force was in 83 ROTJ comic. Luks blade was green then whole time until vader took it.  

The first Yellow blade was wielded by Deak starkiller (who later became luke)  in McQuarrie original artist rendering(well they were both white then change deak had yellow and vader had blue) then By luke in the 1977 Early bird kit from Kenner  well technically Obi won too, It was shown on his single release  packaging .  ;)