All Things Star Trek

[Jev Moldara]

With or without a queen, Borg are still terrifying.  As for Voyager, I avoid it like the plague.

Oh don't get me wrong, the Borg are indeed terrifying, but look at it like this:

Post-Queen Borg are like a network of computers linked to a powerful central server. Take out that server, and the individual computers are all but useless. We've seen what happens when the Borg Queen died in First Contact. All her drones sparked, shorted out, and died along with her. The Borg Queen is the weak spot in the Collective.

Pre-Queen Borg are literally shared and distributed computing at its finest. Taking out individual components will not stop them. In order to stop them, you have to physically destroy every single copy, for if even one copy remains, it will come back. The pre-Queen Borg are the perfect virus. It feeds, it grows, it adapts to adverse conditions, becoming stronger.

That's why pre-Queen Borg are more terrifying.

[BenPass]

Oh don't get me wrong, the Borg are indeed terrifying, but look at it like this:

Post-Queen Borg are like a network of computers linked to a powerful central server. Take out that server, and the individual computers are all but useless. We've seen what happens when the Borg Queen died in First Contact. All her drones sparked, shorted out, and died along with her. The Borg Queen is the weak spot in the Collective.

Pre-Queen Borg are literally shared and distributed computing at its finest. Taking out individual components will not stop them. In order to stop them, you have to physically destroy every single copy, for if even one copy remains, it will come back. The pre-Queen Borg are the perfect virus. It feeds, it grows, it adapts to adverse conditions, becoming stronger.

That's why pre-Queen Borg are more terrifying.

I agree completely with this post

[kewlkev360]

Oh don't get me wrong, the Borg are indeed terrifying, but look at it like this:

Post-Queen Borg are like a network of computers linked to a powerful central server. Take out that server, and the individual computers are all but useless. We've seen what happens when the Borg Queen died in First Contact. All her drones sparked, shorted out, and died along with her. The Borg Queen is the weak spot in the Collective.

Pre-Queen Borg are literally shared and distributed computing at its finest. Taking out individual components will not stop them. In order to stop them, you have to physically destroy every single copy, for if even one copy remains, it will come back. The pre-Queen Borg are the perfect virus. It feeds, it grows, it adapts to adverse conditions, becoming stronger.

That's why pre-Queen Borg are more terrifying.

It is hard to theorize about Borg when in reality there is very little known.  That theory that the Borg sparked and died when she did seems valid, but she has a tendency to reappear later on and the Borg as a whole seem to go on fine.  There could also be certain pros to having a Queen.  Example: in The Best of Both Worlds part 2, Data defeated the Cube by inserting a command for all borg to regenerate which caused the ship to self destruct.  Now, given the Queen's ability to countermand commands, perhaps she could have negated that.  I know in First Contact Picard said that she was there during his assimilation, but we don't know how long she was there or when she left.

I also find it hard to believe that the Borg who have such adaptability would have such a glaring weakness where killing the Queen would disable all the drones.  Perhaps it affects the Borg nearest her or directly linked to her but not the whole collective.  The wiki claims that the Borg can function for any length of time without a Queen.

The death of a Borg Queen did not seem to affect the Collective or its hive mind. When a Borg drone died, its memories would still be within the hive mind. There was no evidence that a Borg Queen would be more than a drone. Borg drones were capable of functioning without a queen for any length of time by forming a hive mind of their own. (VOY: "Unity")

it seems there are several instances where different episodes contradict each other, so it's really hard to say.  My personal opinion is that the death of a Queen may have negative short term effects but overall the Collective continues to function.

[Manroon]

I concur with Ben, pre-Queen Borg are more terrifying, though First Contact scared the Force outta me as a kid. FTR though, I have ALWAYS acknowledged that the single coolest scene in all of Star Trek was this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4DCOpG1oNE

'Perhaps today IS a good day to die... prepare for RAMMING SPEED!'

'Sir, there's another starship coming in... ... ... it's the Enterprise!

Boom Boom... Doo doo dee do do da dooo 


Also, if anyone ever read VENDETTA or The Return.... who doesn't like TOS running up against the Borg. Or [Spoiler Alert!] Spock's immunity to Assimilation? Kirk plus Borg Homeworld equal esplosions. lol

[BenPass]

It is hard to theorize about Borg when in reality there is very little known.  That theory that the Borg sparked and died when she did seems valid, but she has a tendency to reappear later on and the Borg as a whole seem to go on fine.  There could also be certain pros to having a Queen.  Example: in The Best of Both Worlds part 2, Data defeated the Cube by inserting a command for all borg to regenerate which caused the ship to self destruct.  Now, given the Queen's ability to countermand commands, perhaps she could have negated that.  I know in First Contact Picard said that she was there during his assimilation, but we don't know how long she was there or when she left.

I also find it hard to believe that the Borg who have such adaptability would have such a glaring weakness where killing the Queen would disable all the drones.  Perhaps it affects the Borg nearest her or directly linked to her but not the whole collective.  The wiki claims that the Borg can function for any length of time without a Queen.
 
it seems there are several instances where different episodes contradict each other, so it's really hard to say.  My personal opinion is that the death of a Queen may have negative short term effects but overall the Collective continues to function.

While a lot of what you say makes sense Kev, I've always thought of the Queens as being leaders over certain sections or "under collectives" if you will. I mean, we DO see several Borg Queens (and I seem to remember a scene in one of the series where someone is assimilated into a Queen)...that would indicate to me that they are spread out. After all, why have more than one Queen over the entire Collective?

It would make more sense to me (although I still agree that the Queens should have been scrapped), that each Queen works together to help the processing power of the Collective and keep all parts of the Collective working together. Say, for example, Queen A rules Alpha Quadrant, Queen B rules Beta, etc.

[Jev Moldara]

I concur with Jev,

FTFY

[Jev Moldara]

While a lot of what you say makes sense Kev, I've always thought of the Queens as being leaders over certain sections or "under collectives" if you will. I mean, we DO see several Borg Queens (and I seem to remember a scene in one of the series where someone is assimilated into a Queen)...that would indicate to me that they are spread out. After all, why have more than one Queen over the entire Collective?

It would make more sense to me (although I still agree that the Queens should have been scrapped), that each Queen works together to help the processing power of the Collective and keep all parts of the Collective working together. Say, for example, Queen A rules Alpha Quadrant, Queen B rules Beta, etc.

Okay, so instead of one central server, there are now a few of them. It's still a weak spot.

[BenPass]

Okay, so instead of one central server, there are now a few of them. It's still a weak spot.

Oh yes, I agree completely. It just makes a little bit more sense than having one Queen over the entire collective, and then somehow replacing her when the first one dies...even though by the logic shown earlier, all Borg would be dead. Again, it doesn't make up for the addition of the Queen, but it DOES make a tiny bit more sense. What would have been even better IMO, if they were going to add Queens, it have them be on each cube as some sort of communications nexus. Again, that still wouldn't have been as good as keeping the Borg the way they were, but it's better IMO. 

[kewlkev360]

Oh yes, I agree completely. It just makes a little bit more sense than having one Queen over the entire collective, and then somehow replacing her when the first one dies...even though by the logic shown earlier, all Borg would be dead. Again, it doesn't make up for the addition of the Queen, but it DOES make a tiny bit more sense. What would have been even better IMO, if they were going to add Queens, it have them be on each cube as some sort of communications nexus. Again, that still wouldn't have been as good as keeping the Borg the way they were, but it's better IMO. 

Supposedly, the Queen regulates the transwarp hubs and interspacial manifolds as well as coordinate drones.  I had another theory as well though.  In First Contact Picard says that she was on the cube so how did she survive and she replies he thinks in such three dimensional terms.  Since the collective retains a drones memories or experiences even after it's death, perhaps the Queen can tranfer her consciousness throughout the Collective at will, essentially being able to possess drones at will.  It would explain why she keeps popping up after her supposed death. 

I always kind of thought of the Queen as more of a personification of the Collective, rather than a separate entity.  Picard was assimilated to facilitate humanity's assimilation, a bridge as he called it between the vast differences of the two races.  He was somewhat distinctive and seemed to be able to act as a leader for that attack, basically a glorified drone .  Perhaps the Queen was merely the same way, a figurehead that was supplemental for the Collective but not required.

I've also seen it suggested that she was a virtual entity, the personification of the Collective itself but supposedly the writers denied that theory.

[Master Rel]

That the Borg use any organic flesh makes little to no sense...absorb knowledge, assimilate technology, and evolve.

Why keep the weak flesh.

They were a creepy bad guy for what the potential offered, but requires a significant does of disbelief, which I have, so this is just a comment.

As such the Queen did not bother me...she makes as much sense as them retaining flesh.

All good in the hood.

 

[BenPass]

That the Borg use any organic flesh makes little to no sense...absorb knowledge, assimilate technology, and evolve.

Why keep the weak flesh.

They were a creepy bad guy for what the potential offers, but requires a significant does of disbelief, which I have, so this is just a comment.

As such the Queen did not bother me...she makes as much sense as them retaining flesh.

All good in the hood.

 

I agree with this as well. For me, I always chalked the keeping of flesh up to their statement, "Your individuality will be added to our own". Almost a misguided attempt to merge everything together into a unified, "perfect" race.

[kewlkev360]

That the Borg use any organic flesh makes little to no sense...absorb knowledge, assimilate technology, and evolve.

Why keep the weak flesh.

They were a creepy bad guy for what the potential offers, but requires a significant does of disbelief, which I have, so this is just a comment.

As such the Queen did not bother me...she makes as much sense as them retaining flesh.

All good in the hood.

 

They saw Data as an obsolete being.  I guess they thought that blending organic and Tech would give them the best of both worlds.


Really though, more or less all Trek needs a dose of disbelief...Time travel in every season, Q, and need I even mention Star Trek V?  ::Shudders::

[Master Rel]

They saw Data as an obsolete being.  I guess they thought that blending organic and Tech would give them the best of both worlds.


Really though, more or less all Trek needs a dose of disbelief...Time travel in every season, Q, and need I even mention Star Trek V?  ::Shudders::

Careful mister...that sort of talk is bordering on sacrilege!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqreRufrkxM

[kewlkev360]

Careful mister...that sort of talk is bordering on sacrilege!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAn7baRbhx4#noexternalembed

It's been scientifically proven that Star Trek V was awful.

[Master Rel]

It's been scientifically proven that Star Trek V was awful.

Even bad Trek is better than no Trek...well...ok...STV was much like a STD...even if you get it taken care of, you will never forget...