Thoughts on Ataru

[Rintor]

I was just thinking about the practical implementation of Ataru and how it might work. Would some of the Wu Shu 2-handed sword form provide a good source for developing this form? Here's some videos for reference:

http://youtu.be/tg1KAZ_1IIw

http://youtu.be/zpNy0MocD5c

http://youtu.be/pc1ooaGkrHU

Thoughts?

[Kaiden Shardsbane]

I think that, plus some freerunning/tricking, and you'd have a Force-less version of Ataru.

[thejedimasternick]

I think Wushu is a good example of Ataru or mostly Juyo just because Ray Park was a practitioner himself. Great speed and offensive capabilities in my  own opinion.

[Gulcasa]

Wushu isn't the way I would like to battle.. I think it doesn't look nice.. but well.. my opinion though!
but well.. I think youre right.. Wushu comes alot to Juyo..

[Rintor]

So, if Wushu is more like Juyo, then would extreme freestyle katana forms be more like Ataru? Here are some examples:

http://youtu.be/AH4gN1-vxBM

http://youtu.be/lueuQu62nRQ

http://youtu.be/yC7lu4M0KhA

[Gulcasa]

Yup :O I think this is very near to Ataru!.. whew O.O awesome skills!!

[beans22]

That wushu stuff is a good textbook definition of ataru but it is strange obi wan and qui gonn are listed as ataru (For the phantom menace at least) even though they are almost completely rooted so I sort of think of it in the context of sparring as light flowing attacks with the occasional jump or spin with no real malice to it.

[ShadowKatt]

That wushu stuff is a good textbook definition of ataru but it is strange obi wan and qui gonn are listed as ataru (For the phantom menace at least) even though they are almost completely rooted so I sort of think of it in the context of sparring as light flowing attacks with the occasional jump or spin with no real malice to it.

That is the jedi way though. Whatever your actions, there is no emotion.

[Novastar]

That wushu stuff is a good textbook definition of ataru but it is strange obi wan and qui gonn are listed as ataru (For the phantom menace at least) even though they are almost completely rooted so I sort of think of it in the context of sparring as light flowing attacks with the occasional jump or spin with no real malice to it.

It is "strange" only in the sense that the "form terms" were only applied AFTER the films came out... and were basically "made up" forms, really having nothing to do with the fight choreography put together by Nick Gillard.

Take of all that what you will, but... if ANYONE had more of a "Wu-Shu" style... it would have been Ray Park (Darth Maul), as he was a Wu-Shu champion for several years.  I don't remember the exact timeline on his champion forms, but I think it was the 90's.

Liam Neeson's style was a lot more "broadsword", as he essentially borrowed from the work he had previously done on "Rob Roy".

Ewan MacGregor learned from the foundations, picking up whatever that Nick Gillard (and anyone else on set, such as Ray Park) helped him to achieve or teach him, as he had no previous martial experience.  As far as I know, and as far as interviews with him state.

I believe the only reason that Chris Lee (Dooku) ever even gave the "feel" that his style was more "fencing"... was simply because he did a little fencing when he was younger.  Although the actual style used in the films when Chris Lee is fighting (whether it is his stunt double or otherwise)... has very little to do with fencing--and rightly so: since fencing is not "pretty" to look at for staged combat.

So... overall, most of the "lightsaber forms" really are either nonsense... or just a state-of-mind.  It's not to say that ANY form doesn't have value--au contraire--to me, ALL forms that cause you to perform/DO physical motions that discern between attacks & defenses & everything in between... are GOOD THINGS! 

Bottom line in my eyes on saber forms??  Get out there and DO stuff so ya get fit... and if sparring is your thing... get used to sparring people of different speeds, heights, experience levels... and of course it's easy to note that no two people spar "the same".  Everyone behaves in their OWN "style".

[JdiKnhtJMH]

I would say it's very difficult to match any particular form of lightsaber combat to any sort of extant combat school. You can  work out the combat in the movies to specific stuff, but the written ones from books like Jedi VS Sith or Jedi Path are all going to be their own things. Those things are primarily ideas, waiting for people to codify them and put them into practice, hence the various saber combat enthusiasts around with their own methods. I think the best way to "study" any of these ideas is to try to incorporate the basic theory into your sparring, and see how it works. Complicating this, however, is the fact that not all of us are made to master or study every form, so there's always going to be argument as to the efficacy and legitimacy of these styles, though that seems like a good thing to me. I think it would be interesting to see people try to specialize in a single style and master it, and then pass on that information.

[beans22]

It is "strange" only in the sense that the "form terms" were only applied AFTER the films came out... and were basically "made up" forms, really having nothing to do with the fight choreography put together by Nick Gillard.

Take of all that what you will, but... if ANYONE had more of a "Wu-Shu" style... it would have been Ray Park (Darth Maul), as he was a Wu-Shu champion for several years.  I don't remember the exact timeline on his champion forms, but I think it was the 90's.

Liam Neeson's style was a lot more "broadsword", as he essentially borrowed from the work he had previously done on "Rob Roy".

Ewan MacGregor learned from the foundations, picking up whatever that Nick Gillard (and anyone else on set, such as Ray Park) helped him to achieve or teach him, as he had no previous martial experience.  As far as I know, and as far as interviews with him state.

I believe the only reason that Chris Lee (Dooku) ever even gave the "feel" that his style was more "fencing"... was simply because he did a little fencing when he was younger.  Although the actual style used in the films when Chris Lee is fighting (whether it is his stunt double or otherwise)... has very little to do with fencing--and rightly so: since fencing is not "pretty" to look at for staged combat.

So... overall, most of the "lightsaber forms" really are either nonsense... or just a state-of-mind.  It's not to say that ANY form doesn't have value--au contraire--to me, ALL forms that cause you to perform/DO physical motions that discern between attacks & defenses & everything in between... are GOOD THINGS! 

Bottom line in my eyes on saber forms??  Get out there and DO stuff so ya get fit... and if sparring is your thing... get used to sparring people of different speeds, heights, experience levels... and of course it's easy to note that no two people spar "the same".  Everyone behaves in their OWN "style".

I agree completely I just simply try to take the saber forms and try to think about them in a "realistic" sense

[DarthJalovick]

I think the styles are only different when you get deeper into combat.  Combat is always the same on the surface but when one can get to the point where they an fight in a basic sense (evade, invade, manipulate, punch, kick, etc.) then they go deeper into putting a certain style to it (Wushu, Hapkido, Karate, etc.) then from there they develop their own personal style. And when I say their own style I mean their personal adaptation of a style or multiple styles they may practice to suit them best.

[Kaiden Shardsbane]

@darthjalovick:  I'm not so sure about that last part.  I've sorta skipped the second step and gone right the third.  I took everything I've learned and mish-mashed it into my very own Kaiden-Fu.  Kinda skipped any sort of 'style'.

[DarthJalovick]

Haha yo nothin' wrong with that though 

[Master Nero Attoru]

I agree with Novastar, everyone has their own style that is unique to them, and should be developed.  However, I've found that the Forms are nice for beginners, who don't necessarily have a background in swordsmanship.

The way I see it, the forms should be used as a crutch to develop the basics of lightsaber combat and give a newbie an idea of what different styles people tend to use.  Beyond that, they can develop their own style drawing basics from these ideas and incorporating their own strategies and techniques.  Like the lightsaber combat equivalent of training wheels.